Thread Number: 78672  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Whirlpool 240 volt Combo announced
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Post# 1026679   3/9/2019 at 18:36 by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

The New York Times has a product rating service called Wirecutter. In the major appliances ratings, there is a quite negative discussion of washer-dryer combinations. In the discussion there is this:

"Whirlpool showed us the vented, 240-volt SmartCare All-in-One combo way back in January 2017, telling us it would be available for $1,500 in “late 2017.” But it’s still not out yet."

Has anyone heard about this? This isn't the overnight drying thing is it?

If you tab down there are 27 interesting comments.


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This post was last edited 03/09/2019 at 19:00
Post# 1026685 , Reply# 1   3/9/2019 at 18:51 by appnut (TX)        

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The only 240V model is the "baby" one they announced last August/September.  That's apparently what was previewed back in 2017.  There are two or three other new all-in-ones as part of their new products.  All 4.5 or 5.0 cu. ft. drums.  Not on their site, but have found them at appliances connections and abt.  WFC9820 and WFC982.  They're both 120 v.  There's also a 5.0 cu. ft. WFW9620 that does apparently offer a fairly decent all-in-one option, the quick start guide says the drum must ber filled no more than 1/2 for effective use of the washing and drying option and the drying option is available on select cycles.  This WFW9620 also has a matching dryer, but it isn't a heat pump dryer.  None of these are vented.  All condenser.  I think there's been a rumor before of a full-size 240v as well as gas.  




This post was last edited 03/09/2019 at 19:14
Post# 1026699 , Reply# 2   3/9/2019 at 21:13 by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

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A 240v combo would be a good solution for some, there is a newly renovated apartment building that has an LG combo in every unit, I've wondered how the tenants like them.  I'll bet there are more than a few drying racks in the building now. 

 

An LG combo locally - I suppose "technically" it is repairable.  

 

 



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Post# 1026708 , Reply# 3   3/10/2019 at 00:56 by tolivac (greenville nc)        

Would this machine work from 208V since most apt houses are wired with 208/120V 3 Ph.?

Post# 1026711 , Reply# 4   3/10/2019 at 05:34 by appnut (TX)        

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Rex, my house is 208v-based.  I have had no problems with my Maytag electric dryer nor with my nearly 2 year-old KitchenAid double-oven induction range as well as my Trane Heat Pump or Whirlpool Energy Smart 50 gallon water heater.  


Post# 1026713 , Reply# 5   3/10/2019 at 06:32 by tolivac (greenville nc)        

Bob,Yes some appliances wioll work OK on 208V just wondered if the machine discussed here would.Guess you live in an apartment?Used to live in apartment years ago.Now I live in a house with the usual 120/240V.Would figure your oven may take a little longer to cook in than with 240V.I have a Lennox AC/Heat pump--its old but still hanging in there.Same with my RUUD water heater.Just have a conventional range.GE.

Post# 1026716 , Reply# 6   3/10/2019 at 11:42 by appnut (TX)        

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Rex, surprisingly, I live in a house.  It was completed July, 1984.  I bought the house 18 months later due to the original owner's transfer to East Texas.  Because of all the paperwork they left me, I knew who was the electrical contractor who wired my house and I've used them all these years.  They have one of the best reputations in the area. The house is all-electric so there's coverage for heat/ac; water heater; dryer; range.  The existing panel looks like it has two additional spaces for 30 amp circuits.   I'm thinking about getting a whole-house surge protector eventually.  And after I retire there may be need for at least one more 208v circuit so it will be interesting to see what the contractor suggests.  


Post# 1026757 , Reply# 7   3/10/2019 at 16:46 by Supersuds (Knoxville, Tenn.)        

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This article suggests there can be a problem with the longevity of electric motors even when they’re marked 208/230 volts, if the voltage dips much below 208.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO Supersuds's LINK


Post# 1026760 , Reply# 8   3/10/2019 at 17:44 by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        
240 Volt Vs 208 Voltage For Home Appliances

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In the US all appliances designed for 240 volts will also work on 208 volts without any real durability problems.

 

Appliances with resistance heaters will put out 25% less heat however, so an electric water heater will take 25% longer to heat water, an oven will take 25% longer to pre-heat and will not broil nearly as well and a dryer will take 25% longer to dry the same load, good news is on 208 volts you will NEVER burn out a heating element in a dryer or electric range.

 

A/Cs and heat-pumps will put out a little cooling and heating on 208 volts but you only loose 3-5% so its not really noticeable.

 

Hi Bob, It is very unusual for single family houses in the US to have 3 phase 208 volt power, are you sure your home has 208 volt power ? Large apartment buildings with elevators and cooling towers etc often have 3 phase 208 power.

 

John L.


Post# 1026792 , Reply# 9   3/11/2019 at 02:37 by tolivac (greenville nc)        

One apartment house I lived in while I was in the Wash DC area was fed from the utility with 3ph 480V power.A transmformer in the building stepped the 480V to 208/120V for the apartments.The HVAC and elevators ran from the 480V power.The transmitter building I work in now is fed with 4160V 3 ph and has two transformers on a changeover switch to take 4160V to 208/120V 500 Kva.Another transformer bank steps 4160 to 230V 3 ph for three CEMCO transmitters 230V 3p blower,pump,and low level circuits.The HV supplies in these transmitters run from 4160V 3ph.

Post# 1026827 , Reply# 10   3/11/2019 at 13:31 by chetlaham (United States)        

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A home doesn't need 3 phase power to have 208, there are some power companies like Con Edison which will set a large 3 phase transformer on the pole or operate an extensive 120/208 volt underground secondary network supplying homes with two hots and a neutral with 3 phase customers supplied with 3 hots and a neutral. Like this you feed two birds with one stone in a densely populated area. Only difference is that homes require a 5 jaw meter, all else is the same.

Post# 1026828 , Reply# 11   3/11/2019 at 15:19 by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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My parents' home built in 1972 has access to 3-phase power, reason possibly being the city had a sewer lift-station at the far corner of the property.  The original York A/C was three phase, then the replacement Lennox.  The next Lennox a few years ago is not so they no longer have anything operating on 3-phase.


Post# 1026849 , Reply# 12   3/11/2019 at 23:46 by tolivac (greenville nc)        

I have heard of 3ph power run to farms--not usually to individual homes.You can order the 3ph power for your home if you have to have it-say for your shop that may have tools that run off 3ph power.There was a person that used to work with me here at work that has a lathe and milling machine that require 3ph power.He lucked upon a Rotovertor at a pawn shop for 5 bucks-bought it and he and his tools are happy.If you do get the 3ph power from the utility you will pay extra for it.And even more so if your 3ph cannot be taken from an existing nearby 3ph installation and a 3ph transformer has to be installed for your installation.

Post# 1026930 , Reply# 13   3/13/2019 at 05:07 by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
Washer Dryers...

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Wile you guys across the water do laundry in very different ways to us, many of our smaller homes have washer dryers and work well. Having access to separates I use at home a 9kg washer dryer branded Servis by Vestel, I have trailed two new models for the manufacture.

If the completed wash programme utilises the fastest spin speed (as its more economical to spin water out before electric drying) then you can have good results, I regularly wash and dry 14 white t-shirts, spinning @ 1400rpm in a large diameter drum, spin time is over 9 mins , I can then shake out the clothes loading back in the drum and select 30 mins cotton dry, its a condenser dryer the shirts are just slightly damp, I take then out and hang over a chair back for final airing, usually overnight, perfect, no need to iron !!

Even these washer dryers have intolerable wash and dry programmes, particularly synthetics, usually a lower spin of 600 - 800 rom so the clothes are the wettest before the drying programme can then take hours and hours, so customer feedback of long drying times was valid and totally due to software programming !!

The use of single spin dryers proves that you can spin fabrics at high spin speeds efficiently without damage, its down to loading and time. This is the issue on many large drum laundry appliances, the ability to even out the clothing coating the drum before fast spinning !!


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Post# 1027073 , Reply# 14   3/14/2019 at 17:22 by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Mike, do many of the combo units on your side of the pond use a powerful or not so powerful air circulator to speed the drying? Philco made vented and non-vented combos here. The non-vented were of two varieties and the TOL model was the Hi-Speed Non-Vent combo which used a very powerful air circulator to pull air through a condensation chamber in its route past the heating element, through the tumbling load and back again. It was faster than the ones that did not circulate air, but just sprayed cold water against a somewhat cooler surface to condense water out of the humid atmosphere so I just wondered if the technology was used over there since even the Miele combos had long drying times.

Post# 1027108 , Reply# 15   3/15/2019 at 04:13 by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
Air Condensers

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Morning Tom, the very early washer dryers used up to 3 powerful heating elements, no air blower and water to condense, I remember the AEG, Miele & Zanussi models they literally baked the clothes dry albeit very quickly , these did condense the steam to water pumped away but used a lot of water to cool the exchanger.

Mid 80`s here saw Hotpoint, Hoover and Servis produce washer dryers with fan driven chambers to force air through heater unit on top , blown through the tumbling clothes and then hit a heat exchanger plate on the back of the tub, water is sprayed onto this plate and steam turns to water and pumped away..

Hoover and Colston had these air heater units but where vented from an outlet on the back, attach a hose and vent through a wall, these where very quick, as you know its the condensing of the steam through the heat exchanger condenser unit that takes the time !!

This is the Hoover vented model...


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Post# 1027109 , Reply# 16   3/15/2019 at 04:27 by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
Condenser washer dryers

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Here is the newer washer dryers by Hotpoint Indesit that use a powerful blower and condenser unit, all packed into that space. Some of these use what is called "Thermal Spinning" so at the end of a very fast spin @ 1600rom, the fan heater unit comes on to warm the spinning clothes so removing any further moisture. Then during the first 20 mins of dryer it start to spin the clothes which are now arm so extracting further residual moisture.
Its a great feature to have on large cotton towelling loads as it does aid drying and reduces costs by heating...






Post# 1027110 , Reply# 17   3/15/2019 at 04:31 by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
washer dryers

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Heres a newer Hoover Candy washer dryer unit, note the solid heater elements...






Post# 1027112 , Reply# 18   3/15/2019 at 05:01 by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, the Netherlands)        
Thermal spinning

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I have been trying to find out who invented it, but so far wasn't able to find out. I know some Bosch washer/dryers from the 80's had it. Any knowledge here of earlier machines with it?

Post# 1027120 , Reply# 19   3/15/2019 at 09:00 by chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK)        
Thermal Spinning

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I think you are correct in that Bosch invented it Louis, ws certainly on their early washer dryers and promoted as so !! saying that we would need to check the programming on AEG & Miele of the era !!


Post# 1027123 , Reply# 20   3/15/2019 at 10:00 by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        
Combos That Heat While In Full Spin Speed

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In the US some of our early combos did this, the 1961 WP & KMs did, the early Norge, Westinghouse, easy and GEs all did this to help heat things up for drying and boost water extraction.

This was an easy feature to employ as it was just programing.

John


Post# 1027127 , Reply# 21   3/15/2019 at 10:33 by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Thank you, Mike!  Now about the fans in the combos, how were they kept free of lint?  In the US, the WP-made combos filled through the blower chamber to flush lint away. the fans in your pics don't show any water sourcing. How did they combat lint buildup?

 

Thanks,

Tom


Post# 1027130 , Reply# 22   3/15/2019 at 11:44 by henene4 (Germany)        
Passive filtering

First, a fan spins, thus less buildup there.

Next, the less then optimal airflow path mentioned that a lot of lint is cought by the tub, drum and doorseal.

But, most of all, the water cooling filters out most of the lint.


Post# 1027197 , Reply# 23   3/16/2019 at 12:53 by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Hot humid air carries wet lint dust which is bad about sticking to surfaces. I have read reports from service people who work on the 24" combos that were sold in this country and they often mention how the fins of the little circulator fans clog with lint dust that frequently has to be cleaned away.

Maytag combos directed an atomized stream of water into the spinning fan in the condensing chambers of their combos and condensing dryers.
I have portable space heaters where dust collects on all surfaces inside the heaters, especially on the leading edges of the fan blades.


Post# 1027199 , Reply# 24   3/16/2019 at 13:11 by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, the Netherlands)        

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Don't know about the other brands, but Miele has a program for rinsing out the machine.

A friend of mine in England has a Bosch washer-dryer combo. Never heard him complain about lint building up.




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Post# 1027209 , Reply# 25   3/16/2019 at 15:48 by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)        

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For a short period of time in the 90`s I had a Siemens washer-drier. It had all the bells and whistles, a program to rinse out residual fluff from the drying process included.
IIRC it filled to a high 1/3 up the door water level then it went into a distribution spin with all the water for a minute or so and then it just drained with a static drum.
This was useful to clean out the drum of lint but it didn`t do anything to the water cooled condenser chamber or the fan. In fact the fan was never an issue but the condenser chamber frequently clogged up with lint to a point where proper airflow got inhibited.
The combination of heat, lint and Munich hard water is not a good one, the result is tons of baked on lint as hard as concrete.
Apart from the usual disadvantages of combos it wasn`t much fun to dismantle and clean out so I sold it on quickly.


Post# 1027212 , Reply# 26   3/16/2019 at 16:11 by logixx (Germany)        

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Here's a page dedicated to fishing lint from an LG combo.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO logixx's LINK


Post# 1027219 , Reply# 27   3/16/2019 at 17:00 by henene4 (Germany)        
Hot moist air

Yes, moist air can transport lint.

As the water condenses out, the lint is carried away with that.

The heater and fan are the areas of highest airflow and temperature, so the least subjected to depositing issues.


Post# 1027234 , Reply# 28   3/16/2019 at 19:20 by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        
Lint Build-Ups In Combos

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The heater and fan are the areas of highest airflow and temperature, so the least subjected to depositing issues, Really ?

 

The fan is usually ahead of the heater, it is in the coolest area of the combos air system, Fans in combos and even many separate dryers often get very clogged with lint, I have never seen a European combo that attempts to flush the fan of excess lint.

 

Yes the electric heaters are usually not a problem as they will burn lint off the elements.

 

John


Post# 1027291 , Reply# 29   3/17/2019 at 11:45 by henene4 (Germany)        

I really don't see how something spinning at an excess of 1500rpm and that is the highest airflow area will clogg..

The area right before it, yeah, the fan itself? No way...


Post# 1027310 , Reply# 30   3/17/2019 at 13:58 by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

The leading edge of a fan blade cuts into the air and at least some of whatever is in that air gets pushed onto the blade or fin of the fan. As the fan spins through moisture and lint dust-laden air, more and more deposits build up on the blades or fins. You don't even need that much moisture to make particulate matter stick to a fan blade. Have you ever seen the fan in a dirty-fan vacuum? I remember when Hoover would hold repair clinics at department stores. The fans in the machines that were in the stream of air before it went into the bag, the old "convertibles" or dirty-fan machines would get caked with dirt to the point where the Hoover rep would have to use the blade of a screwdriver to scrape off the dirt to get down to the metal of the fan blade to clean it. We would see the condition of the machines some people would bring in and figure that they had no shame and must have had filthy houses. Some of those vacuums should have been put in plastic garbage bags before being taken out in public, just like some people's children.

Post# 1027312 , Reply# 31   3/17/2019 at 14:12 by logixx (Germany)        

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Another LG. Cleaning starts at 3:30. Reminds me of the inside of other dryers where humid air and lint passes through.






Post# 1027313 , Reply# 32   3/17/2019 at 14:15 by henene4 (Germany)        

Sure there is residue on that blade.

Our Whirlpool dryer back home has its fan at the front and sure there is residue on there.

"Clogged" is most certainly something else.


Post# 1027325 , Reply# 33   3/17/2019 at 15:32 by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)        

mrboilwash's profile picture
All the cleaning we see in the LG video is kind of pointless IMO because it`s the condenser chamber where most of the lint collects, at least if hard water has been involved. I don`t think the small amount of lint build up we see there on the fan and in the heating chamber would do much harm.
Of course it`s a lot more work to take the condenser duct out for proper cleaning than poking and flushing a little bit from the top.


Post# 1027345 , Reply# 34   3/17/2019 at 19:29 by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        
Clogged Fans In European Combos

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Hi Henrik, You can sit in front of your computer all day and come up with all kinds of theories as to how you think things will work, but the reality is the squirrel cage fans in combos not only get heavy lint build-ups but they clog completely to the point where no air circulates and the thermal cut-outs on the heaters trip.

 

We have seen it many times on many of the Italian built combos that made it here, as well as the Askos etc.

 

We also see regular clothes dryers with heavily clogged fans every week, also anyone that works on vacuum cleaners can also tell you just how dirty and clogged the fan-impellers can get, the fact that the fan is spinning at 1000-3000 RPMs makes difference.

 

John





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