Thread Number: 78780
/ Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Out with the old Gorenje, in with the new Gorenje!
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|Post# 1027665   3/22/2019 at 07:18 by henene4 (Germany)  || |
Yesterday our old flat-share washer died, so I had to wrangle with draining it, shipping the soapy soaking wet to friends place to get it rinsed and getting in contact with our landlord.
Probably the PCB; the machine stopped mid-mainwash with the door unlocked.
Wouldn't lock again; however the PCB wasn't even putting put any voltage to the door lock.
First my landlord wanted to get it checked out, but then he decided to just give me the go-ahead to buy a new one.
The old one was a Gorenje W6543/S.
Slim-line machine with tiny drum (6kg rating, 42l) and a normal motor, 1400rpm.
It was a decent enough performer.
It always filled with quite some water (it usually filled 1/3rd up the door or higher, however that was just about 15l due to the tiny drum) so saturation was never a problem and rinsing was usually decent.
Rinsing suffered from a often less then stellar interim spinning performance which caused the suds lock protection to trigger thus canceling the interim spin.
(Fun fact: It had 2 pressurse switches, one fixed level one and one variable - probs analog - level one. The variable one checked fills, the fixed level one triggered for overflows and suds-locks.)
Plenty of wash cycles and plenty of options and - if you selected the "Allergy" option - 40min of temperature held main wash and 4 verry deep rinses.
Cycle tinmes were somewhat long though and spinning often took ages.
My landlord wanted a washer with A spin performance and our local MediaMarkt only had 2 models at an acceptable price.
One was a Beko, that however didn't have a rinse option independet of a prewash and a smaller drum.
So I got one of the new WaveActive washers.
Model is an W2A866T.
8kg drum (though that is more then optimistic at 54l), A+++ -20% rating, 1600rpm, inverter motor and a 2-step Water+ facility.
Got it for just below 390€.
My flatmate helped me move out the old one and just helped me move in the new one.
Pictures and reports will follow once I set it up (which will be chore due to the anything but even floors).
|Post# 1027673 , Reply# 1   3/22/2019 at 09:39 by henene4 (Germany)  || |
Getting a machine level by yourself is kind of challenge.
I managed by breaking out a small rectangle (about 10cm by 10cm) of the packing styrofoam, tilting the machine, pushing the wedge under the edge of the machine frame with my foot and then resting it on that.
That gave me just enough space to screw out the foot, adjust it and secure it.
Took some trying but got it almost perfectly level side to side. Front to back was in the lines of the level, however I might raise the front legs about 2-3mm depending on how stable spinning is.
So far, first impressions.
They sadly did not alter the sensing system much.
It does fill quicker, but still just fills up to the door glass and does do it's minute or 2 tumble one way.
Which is odd as it can do the inertia-based sensing. If you select the "DoseAid" option and hit start, it does a one-way spin routine that senses for the dosage suggestion.
DoseAid however is implemented strangely.
First, after executing the "DoseAid" function, it gives you a suggestion.
You then however have to unselect the option and start your washing cycle seperatley.
You also can not put in what your detergents dosage is supposed to be.
It just gives you a value for normal and concentrated detergent, that's it.
The detergentdrawer is clearly from the Panasonic colaboration.
The softner chamber has the same L-shape as it had on our Panasonic. That shape is actually pretty handy as every chamber as direct edge space. Thus you don't accidently spill anything into any chamber unintended.
It is smaller then the Panasonic, but perfectly fine.
The drum is sizeable enough for our uses and has the WaveActive pattern.
It does have a recirculation system which I was not aware of.
Up to now, it appears as if the recirculation is on for sensing and the first few minutes of washing without heat and only as the drum turns.
During heating it is off. Can't say if it goes back on after heating as it is still heating up.
Some funtions are somewhat... meh, still.
You can't combine the timesave and water+ options, sadly.
Allergy is locked in (except for temperatures).
Power59 is even locked in on the temperature.
But the darks cycle is nice and short and spins up to 1200rpm and goes up to 40C.
Coloureds goes to 60C, and Whites goes to 90C but not below 40C.
But overall, the cycle selection is really good for the price point.
Motor is quiet, the suspension however is questionably soft. But that might actually help on that floor.
The overall fit and finish is actually for the price pretty damn good.
I would say that overall it is on par with the BSHs of simmilar price and certainly far above anything Whirlpool used to make or is now makeing through Hotpoint.
The motor seems to be in-house as it dosen't act anything like any Panasonic ever did or any other brand I know for that matter.
The lint trap door seems somewhat flimsy, drainpump seems to be straight from last gen. However, there is an emergency door release.
The recirc pump is reasonably quiet, and I suppose so will be the drain pump.
Door is a plain pull to open and dosen't have the tightes fit when locked, but I can not pull it out far enough that it would be anywhere close to leaking.
Some odd quirks:
The circle for the temperature display and for the child lock symbol are not complete circles. They are cut off at the top for some odd reason. First I thought that was a production error, but as it is done twice it's a style choice apparently.
Not sure if you can before you start a cycle, but after you started a cycle you can turn off the EcoEye usage display.
The EcoEye label is actually a button just like the Eco and Time options next to it.
The beeper actually changes pitch when changing settings (higher pitch for high spin speed or temperature, lower as you decrease it).
I turned off the cycle signal but kept the input signals.
It does appear to change agitation beyond 60C as I am used to from some machines.
Oh, yeah, and Wool/Handwash allows for a time save that cuts the 57min cycle by 10min.
Why, I have no clue.
First loads will be some clothes and toweling, small load.
Sunday I'll run a large colored load of jeans, sweat pants and sweat jackets which well test out balancing and vibration.
At some point during the next week my mixed whites/underwear/T-Shirt load will come up and so will my small 2-shirt load.
Oh, and sorry for the pics.
As you see, space right there is somewhat limited so getting good angles is nearly impossible.
If you have questions, feel free to ask.
One thing I forgot is that at this price point the machine does have a double walled hose with the electronic valve at the end and a full bottom pan with float switch which is uncommon AFAIK.
|Post# 1027699 , Reply# 2   3/22/2019 at 12:53 by splittub (Europe)  || |
Gorenje is Chinese now, it has recently been acquired by the "quality manufacturer" Hisense. Expect quality to plummet as a result, though in the near future it'll probably not change that much. I guess your new machine will be the last generation of the still decent ones.
|Post# 1027708 , Reply# 3   3/22/2019 at 15:21 by henene4 (Germany)  || |
Am somewhat surprised as Gorenje themselfes not to long ago aquired Asko and worked for Panasonic as well.
But this is certainly still Gorenje Gorenje.
So, so far I only used the whites cycle, but that one is "familiar but better".
Overall, the cycle is based on the old general cottons cycle.
It does heat to proper temp and maintains it for pretty much spot on 30min with reheating as needed.
The 40C version is almost exactly 10min longer then the 60C version so I suspect the temp hold is extended to compensate for lower bleaching activity at lower temps.
3 rinses each about 4min as standard, all with decent water levels.
Interim spins are staggered (I'd guestimated 800rpm, 1000rpm, 1200rpm) and are made up of 2 parts.
First it distributes, and here one of the biggest improofments was made.
While the suspension is noticeably softer and the washer is not a one try to spin machine, due to the better control over the inverter motor they were abled to approximatley half the time of each distribution attempt to a little less then 30sec.
Each distribution attempt is split in 2.
The primary distribution is about 30sec.
If it passes that it goes to about 250rpm and almost always goes ahead with the spin but has the option to abort at any point.
If it passes that the pump cuts out shortly (more on that later) and it ramps to about 400rpm, then 600rpm.
Then pump cuts out shortly again and it goes on with spinning.
The recirculation pump is interesting as well.
During wash, it is tied to the motor and heater in software.
When ever the heater is on, it is off entirely.
If the heater is off, first the motor starts up, then the recirculation. Then, motor is stoped and the the recirculation.
During rinsing however, it first does 2 faster tumbles without recirc, then goes into a more moderate (yet still intense) tumbling pattern with the recirc on a timed on-off schedule.
Overall the motor and drum paddles work perfectly together and create perfect tumbeling at any point in the cycle.
During saturation, the load is still lifted and dropped on small loads even though the water level is significant. Saturation is really quick, the small load I did was saturated in less then 2min from start of the cycle.
During heating tumbeling is fast but short creating nice high lift and drop tumbles.
Once heated rpms are somewhat between saturation and heating.
Even the rinses are intense tumbles which is refreshing to see as IMO cottons need intensive agitation for proper rinsing.
Overall, the cycle is cut into more fragments suggesting a far more powerfull brain in the machine.
For example, the interim spins are no longer just a spin portion, they are split into drain, distribution, spin, slow-down, distribution, spin, slow-down, stop and drain and final drain. Between each of these segments, the pump cuts out for maybe a second and restarts.
In the rinses, after the first 2 tumbles, the drum does not do the usual pause, motor adjust, tumble but literally swings from one tumble into the next as the recirc starts up.
The final spin however shows that the most.
The seperate spin only is 16min IIRC.
On the one I watched with the load in it the spin started at 20min left.
Did its usual drain and prespin routine.
After it went down to distribution speed and sensed for balance, it started the final spin sequence straight away and cut to 10min on the timer.
It steped up to 400rpm, 600rpm as usual.
Pump cut out again and it quickly sped up to about 800rpm.
After a few seconds it cut out again for a second and began to slowly speed up over the course of the next probably about 2min to about 1200rpm.
That was kept for not quite a minute.
Pump restarted again and the machine did a quick hike up to 1400rpm and stayed there for 90 odd seconds.
Then the pump restarted again and it did another quick hike up to the full 1600rpm it kept for about 2min give or take.
Then the pump cut out again, cut back in and slow down began with the time jumping from 5 to 2 min.
Then it slowed down to distribution speed and oddly stayed there for a couple of seconds.
Pump cut out and back in, drum stopped for a few seconds, timer jumped to one minute left with another pump restart and it started fluffing.
Pump restarted a final time as the drum stopped, then the pump cut out one final time and the cycle was done.
The machine isn't exactly quiet and the motor isn't the most pleasently sounding either (there is probably 0 sound dampening in there what so ever) but for 400€ it dosen't have to be exactly silent anyway.
I would probably describe it as the washer that sounds the most like I would imagine a UFO takeing off.
Once it passes about 1000rpm the sound somehow dosen't sound as if it would get any louder but the noise level still rises, if that makes any sense.
It's not getting distinctivley louder but gets more "room filling".
It's really weired.
But certainly way better then any brushed motor.
The motor does have torque; more then our Whirlpool built Bauknecht back home but less then the AEG.
So, the empty run sensed down from 3h something to just above 2:30. It started heating at 2:20 and heated for pretty much an hour.
The small load of several tea towels, one small towel, 3 sponges and maybe 8 or 10 microfibre clothes (About a third of the drum full) on the preset whites cycle at 60C sensed from 2:54 at the beginning to 2:12 and started heating at about 1:58.
I didn't catch it when it stopped heating but I would guess it only heated about 30min, give or take.
All of that sensing was about accurate even though I did not time the entire cycle.
And the results were pretty good. All the food stains shifted, most of the loose debris on the microfibe clothes was gone, rinsing was basicly perfect with close to no detergent scent left.
And boy way that load dry.
So far this machine looks to be a pretty good deal at the price point, at least better then most of its competitors.
But the upcomming week will have some more challenging loads.
Planned so far are my darks on sunday as well as a load of towels from bleaching and dyeing my hair on an economy boilwash, then my synthetics 60C load with a heavy bathmat and bathrobe sometime next week as well as my white towel load and probably my bedding as well as my T-Shirt/underwear load plus whatever my flatmates throw at it.
I'll keep you all posted and am eager to answer your questions.
|Post# 1027712 , Reply# 4   3/22/2019 at 16:00 by jerrod6 (Philadelphia(center city), Pennsylvania)  || |
I would really like to see pictures of your new machine and even a video or two of it in action.
|Post# 1027719 , Reply# 5   3/22/2019 at 17:10 by henene4 (Germany)  || |
|Post# 1027720 , Reply# 6   3/22/2019 at 17:14 by gorenje (Slovenia)  || |
Congratulations for your new washer, happy washing :-)
I also have the new Gorenje Waveactive, the 9kg model WS947LN.
It is a true Gorenje, made here in Slovenia.
It is true that the Hisense group is now the majority owner of the Gorenje brand, but major appliances with the brand Gorenje will still be made here in Slovenia or in Serbia.
I am really very very happy with my machine.
Some more picture are on the other post I made when I bought the machine :
View Full Size
|Post# 1027782 , Reply# 7   3/23/2019 at 05:44 by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, the Netherlands)  || |
As I said before you don't see Gorenje here in the appliance stores. Don't know why, but there isn't even a Dutch Gorenje website. Some kitchen appliances are available through an internetshop, but no washing machines or dryers there.
That machine looks very nice. Great that it has an anti-allergy and a down programme. I noticed though there is no delicate programme, so all programmes have rinses between the rinses?
A few questions:
How long is the black cotton programme?
What are the temperature options for the Allergy programme?
Would love to hear about how it deals with sudslocks too.
|Post# 1027788 , Reply# 8   3/23/2019 at 08:14 by henene4 (Germany)  || |
There is no dedicated delicates cycle as they merged their old "Handwash" cycle with the Wool cycle.
Though I tended to use sports instead of delicate on the old one.
I'll use the sport program sooner or later and will check if that has interim spins.
The darks cycle is something round about 1:15 to 1:30, goes up to 1200rpm, up to 40C with only the timesaver and water plus avaible. It's half load as well.
IIRC nor prewash there.
The down cycle sadly only goes up to 40C, so more for delicate down items.
Allergy allows for 40, 60 and 90.
|Post# 1027789 , Reply# 9   3/23/2019 at 08:18 by henene4 (Germany)  || |
This post has been removed by the member who posted it.
|Post# 1027800 , Reply# 10   3/23/2019 at 12:42 by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, the Netherlands)  || |
|Post# 1027805 , Reply# 11   3/23/2019 at 13:21 by gorenje (Slovenia)  || |
Yes you have two options for washing on 90 degrees. The cotton cycle and the allergy cycle which has a higher water level in rinces.
I noticed that it can deal very well with sudslock. Never had any. I guess it's because of the way it spins and drains (alternating slow spin and alternating on / off of the drain pump)
|Post# 1027878 , Reply# 12   3/24/2019 at 15:45 by henene4 (Germany)  || |
Did 2 loads today.
First was a load of colors.
Load consisted of 4 pairs of sweat pants, 4 sweat jackets and 3 pairs of jeans.
Given my stature, that load was pretty much capacity for the washer. About 6-6,5kg probably and I probably would have gotten away with a pair of jeans more.
Detergent was about 150ml of liquid Miele darks detergent which was slightly to much probably as the mainwash had some suds to many, but not extensive oversudssing.
Softener were about 50ml of Comfort Intense.
Cycle was the Colors cycle at 40C with 1600rpm and Water+ on the second level which ment more water and an extra rinse.
Estimated time were 3:13h - quite long.
Sensing is still not Gorenjes strong suit given it still only has 2 levels (either it refills and keeps full time or dosen't and cuts it down).
It refilled once from the recirc pump cavitating to 5cm up the door glass and started heating 20min in.
The mainwash ended after on the minute 90min.
And here things got verry interesting: Time left were 1:42h after the drain.
The first interim spin was what made me instantly love the machine.
This was a huge, heavy, absorbent load of long sleeves and legs and NOT A SINGLE small item to help balance the load.
The machine took 5 tries to balance the load with 3 of those doing a quick spike to about 200rpm or so.
Then it did its first spin sequence to 400rpm and 600rpm and basicly straight away sudslocked all over the door glass.
But it just kept going. Like nothing was wrong.
Then it slowed down for checking balancing before continuing to spin and perfectly cleared the suds without even stopping the drum.
Then it just took off for the interim spin like nothing happend.
And that was the same on every interim spin. No fuzzing about.
Rinsing staticly filled with more water then without Water+ selected.
After the load was saturated the water level was lower then the mainwash, but never to low to efectivley circulate through the load.
Each rinse was 4min and by rinse 3 the water was basicly clear.
I would always select an extra rinse with such large loads, but when loading the washer as the manual recomends only about 3/4 full or even just not packed, 3 rinses will be fine.
By the end of the 4th rinse which was the softner rinse, the machine had 48min left on the timer - so it took about an hour for 4 rinses which is fine.
It did its first pre-spin, rebalanced once and took off to it's final spin cutting down to 10min left on the timer.
And here I realised: They just assume the longest time needed for balancing and thus there are never any balancing delays.
The cycls should NEVER take longer then indicated as they simply assume the worst case.
And it just spun at 1600rpm. No walking, just slight vibration, not louder then expected.
I mean, it wasn't quiet, and the facia visibly vibrated, but the load was perfectly well spun.
Total time was just about 2:45h.
It wasn't anything advanced, but it just worked.
Which is more then many manufacturers are abled to provide at that price point.
Second load was made of 2 medium sized bath towels, one slightly smaller bath towel, 4 larg-ish hand towels, 4 T-Shirts, 10 small towels (about 15cm*15cm, 6"*6") and a small cleaning cloth.
That load was about 3/4 loosely filled.
Detergent was 50ml of Mieles powdered whites powder and softner 18ml of the same Comfort Intense.
Cycle was Whites 90C EcoCare, 1600rpm.
As with the old one, as long as you are not on the label cycles (which here would be Colored 60 or 40) you can combine EcoCare with a pre-wash and even both water plus levels.
It estimated 3:25h (which was just 5min more then without Eco) and did not sense down and refilled to the same water level as without Eco.
Bizzarly, it still heated to the full temperature, just didn't reheat.
Mainwash was extended to 2:45h total with a full cooldown at the end.
It only did 2 rinses which was fine for this load and the rinses were the exact same as without Eco.
Here it showed that with that reduced load, it sounded close to sudslocking, but didn't.
The final spin stayed at full speed about twice as long and results as expected, though it did take the full 3:25h.
So far, impressed.
Let's see what the next loads will bring!
|Post# 1027897 , Reply# 13   3/24/2019 at 18:53 by gorenje (Slovenia)  || |
I love to read your descriptions of the cycle. They are so accurate.
Thank you very much. Keep going :-)
P.S. I've noticed something very interesting on my mychine. Mine has also the "stainexpert" button with 3 different options and if you hit the option "Coffee stain" you are able to set higher temperatures on some programs.
For example on Cotton black where you can select up to 40 degrees if you hit the button "Coffe stain" you can select up to 90 degrees.
|Post# 1027934 , Reply# 14   3/25/2019 at 04:14 by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)  || |
Seems to be a decent washer with lots of options for little money.
Wish my old Miele would have a brushless motor, but it was still a bit of a luxury back then reserved for TOL models only.
I find it amazing how detailed you can describe every single step of a cycle after only one use. I couldn`t do this even when it comes to something so exciting like a brand new washing machine.
One thing I`m not sure if I got this right. It looks like the initial fill on cottons is very high like in reply# 5 to saturate even the biggest load quickly and I wouldn`t even expect it to refill to a hopefully much lower level when washing a half load only.
Isn`t it extremely wasteful energy wise if you have to wash a small single item like a T-shirt on a long cotton cycle?
|Post# 1027936 , Reply# 15   3/25/2019 at 04:56 by henene4 (Germany)  || |
Partial loads are really not the strong suit of this washer or any Gorenje for that matter.
The initial fill is about 10-15l I would estimate. And so is each rinse fill. And so is every re-fill. At least on the cotton cycle, every fill is about that level shown in the cycle.
The drum isn't particulary deep beyond the door seal though and even the door seal itself is tiny.
The German ETM test magazine tested this verry washer (link below).
They pretty exactly show that on a half load efficency does suffer.
Though ready the tests for the simmilar BSH machine, they don't sense exactly well either...
However I found that as long as you wash more then a couple of items the water level isn't to extreme. A third of the drum full is perfectly fine.
What I am curious about is the Power 59' cycle.
On the old one, the 17min quick wash was the only cycle that filled to a lower level, and as that test said it only used 40l for a half load, that might be a lower fill cycle.
However they claim only 0.21kWh of usage which seems odd as it doesn't even allow to drop the temp below 40C.
But then again that was a test of the WA866T.
We have the W2A866T and the currently most common machine is the W1A866T.
No idea what that means if anything, but hey.
But I'll see.
CLICK HERE TO GO TO henene4's LINK
|Post# 1027942 , Reply# 16   3/25/2019 at 06:56 by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany)  || |
|Post# 1031091 , Reply# 17   4/28/2019 at 14:12 by henene4 (Germany)  || |
It could be much better (easily, actually) but it could be far worse as well.
First of, it never performs badly, really.
The closest to "bad" is overloading the easy care cycle as it tends to underfill drasticly then and as heating is done without the recirc temp is often only reached far into the mainwash after many re-heats.
Main washes are generally pretty damn long.
Whites holds the main wash temp for 40min or so on both 60C and 90C but a staggering 75min on 40C.
Coloreds is more reasonable there with temps being held for 40min in general from what I timed.
The darks cycle is a really gentle and short cycle which often dosen't do proper interim spins.
The allergy cycle is more closesly linked to the cottons cycle with 40min of main wash holding.
Easy Care has a good 90min of main washing which is immense.
Automatic is a cycle that either runs a 2 rinse 1:20-ish cycle or a 3-rinse 1:45-ish cycle with a full final spin.
Haven't used downs, sports, quick 20 and steril tub yet.
Rinsing is either 2 or 3 rinses by default with always static fills.
They all generally seem to be 4min long regardless of cycle and any cycle I used will at least attemnpt to interim spin.
Easy Care does a 1-stage short interim spin with 5 or so distribution tries.
Darks only tries 3 or so times.
Cottons - and thus Allergy - does 2 stages with a upper time limit of 8min total.
Easy Care and Power 59 do 2 rinses by default, all Cottons cycles 3, Allergy 4 verry deep rinses.
Water plus adds either about 1cm to each fill or an extra rinse plus that extra water - where you can add it.
Allergy rinses are a bit deeper then normal cottons with water plus and extra rinse.
Except for the label cycles, the Eco-option cuts down to 2 rinses, cuts out any reheating and therefor lengthens the main wash so that the entire cycle time is only raised by 5min.
WaterPlus can still be used to get 3 rinses again.
TimeCare cuts to 2 rinses, shortens the mainwash but does not allow for WaterPlus which is sad as the mainwash has about the perfect length for most less soiled loads.
Prewash behaves odddly. Where the machine usually does 5-20min of cold pre soaking before any heating, in the prewash it fills ones, does one 2min saturation tumble, then either refills and cuts directly to heating or just cuts to heating straight away.
After 5 or so min of heating it activates the recirculation, washes for 4 or so min on, then drains, refills for the main wash to the minimum mainwash level (about 1cm below the door seal) and goes on with the normal saturation phase of what ever cycle.
That means the mainwash is generally shorter due to a more adaquate amount of water being heated.
2 cylces more in detail:
The Power 59 cycle is quite exactly timed.
4min of filling and saturating with short pretty quick tumbles and recirculation is followed by 15min of heating with intensive tumbles.
It does a thermostop so it will always reach 40C no matter how much you overload the cycle. Then there is 4min of mainwash at temp.
2 rinses as usual and the short easy care type final spin make a 1h cycle great for most refreshing jobs.
The wool cycle is pretty nice.
It's by no means the gentlest, but the load moves decently with 1 drum rotation or so every other minute or so, I think 3 rinses wiht a 4th addable, or with short which almost entirely cuts out the wash time after heating from what I suspect.
Next thing I will try is the label cycles as well as the tub clean cycle.
|Post# 1031113 , Reply# 18   4/28/2019 at 16:53 by gorenje (Slovenia)  || |
You said that on the Dark Cycle often dosen't do proper interim spins.
But for what I could have seen in these months it is supposed to be so. Also my model doesn't do full intermin spins after the wash cycle and some rinses but only some very short redistribuition-spins. I guess to avoid strips and marks on dark items and jeans, that's why the fastes spins are only towards the end of the program.