Maytag RR in W VA

Lighten up, I was just joking with you John. I found it humorous, that you --just happened-- to remember one year our of twenty two, when the Maytag RR did not come out high in the ratings and stated it as if that was the case for the entire twenty-two year run, which it wasn't.

Agreed. That is exactly right, Consumer Reports used and currently uses the "normal" cycle for testing purposes. That's exactly what I stated.

And I agree with you as well when, as I stated, that Maytag shortened the cycle most likely to achieve a higher energy rating. The micro-mesh filter was so efficient that they thought they would just eliminate the pre-rinses and used one wash and two rinses.

Consumer Reports stated that the RR machines, that year left a microscopic grit on the dishes. It had nothing to do with the quality of the machines, only that they were using a partial cycle. Maytag learned their lesson and went back to full cycles for the normal wash.

Yes, I have had many RR and one of them was a BOL Jenn-Air, in which Maytag did not use any heating or cycle extensions. So I rigged mine up to act like their higher level line models and extend the cycle. And it did. So????

Yes, once I also modified a Hobart Kitchen-Aid to run while it heated the water to improve its cleaning performance, as it paused while the water was heating. It seemed like a waste of time when it could be scrubbing dishes while the water was heating. It worked. I took the addition of several relays but it worked. It was just a fun thing to do, being a tinkerer. BTW, Those weren't "recent" threads, I did both things years ago.

I modify almost everything I have just in one way or another to just see what happens. I am just an experimenter by heart, ha. I am not sure why you are brining this up. Using proper logic, whether I experiment or not has nothing to do with a machine's inherent performance and the Maytag RR is top notch as it comes from the factory. But their BOL didn't have extended wash or heating, but you are trying to make it appear that none of their models did. Which is just not true.

The above base line Maytag have the heated washes and rinses and extended cycles just as do the Kitchen Aid, Whirlpool and GE's. In fact the one in the picture I posted does just that.

What you are saying just isn't true. There is nothing underperforming about the Maytag RR, They consistently toped out in CU's rating. As you can see in the 1991 models the Whirlpool labeled machines could not wash glassware nor flatware as well as their Kitchen-Aid machines. AND the Maytag RR machines also outwashed the Whirlpools in flatware and glassware as well. With flatware as Whirlpools on the door silverware holder was only a marketing scheme and detracted from performance. The Maytag RR exceeded Whirlpool's glassware washing abilities of the Whirlpool because of the greater filtration abilities.

Virtually everyone's review of the Maytag RR on this site seems to be overwhelming positive, and in agreement with Consumer Reports as well.

I have no idea what you are talking about "taking a three year break"???

Nobody on this site is putting down your favorite dishwasher, Whirlpool, John. ha. I have had several and they are solid machines. Whirlpool improved them a lot when they finally got the message and put a fine particle filter on them. They made a good thing even better.

Maytag RR were sterling performers, that's just a fact. It doesn't take anything away from your favorite machine. Denigrating other machines than one's favorite and denigrating their opinions doesn't put your favorites in a better light, it fact it does just the opposite. I personally am not particularly a big fan of Whirlpool, but I don't dislike them, and I don't try to make them look bad to make my favorites look better.

We are all on this site to have fun and share our experiences. Let's all get along and enjoy each other as well.


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Post# 1029838 4/14/2019 at 10:26 (1,836 days old) by reactor (Oak Ridge, Tennessee-- )
Checkrate/Likes Needs the rinse agent injector kit. Would buy this myself but am too far away. ;( CLICK HERE TO GO TO reactor's LINK View Full Size

Post# 1029842 , Reply# 1 4/14/2019 at 10:51 (1,836 days old) by reactor (Oak Ridge, Tennessee-- )
Checkrate/Likes *That's Virginia, not W. Virginia* Sorry about the typo.

Post# 1029883 , Reply# 2 4/14/2019 at 19:45 (1,835 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)
Checkrate/Likes 1 *Why Would It Need A Rinse Aid Dispener ?* I would never use rinse aid, one it is not necessary with modern tablet detergents, two the stuff is poisonous, at least it says on the bottle not to ingest so I really do not want it dried all over dishes and glasses I am eating from. John L.

Post# 1029902 , Reply# 3 4/14/2019 at 22:54 (1,835 days old) by reactor (Oak Ridge, Tennessee-- )
Checkrate/Likes 3 *Rinse Agent* For soft water conditions, a rinse agent is not as necessary. As there is little spotting of dishware. Detergents are not fully effective in eliminating hard water spots as most rinse agent that may be innate to the detergent is discharged with the eliminated wash water. In "hard" water areas with calcium carbonate (calcite) dissolution in water exceeding about 10 - 12 grains per gallon, spotting will occur when water evaporates and the calcite is left behind as white spots. The rinse agent breaks the surface tension of the water and allows the water to "sheet" off and not leave mineral residue behind. I wouldn't recommend ingesting it directly from the bottle, any more than I would recommend eating a dishwasher detergent tablet (or a Tide pod, ha.) There are plant based rinse agents such as Ecover and Seventh Generation that do not have artificial surfactants in them...for those who worry about it. It takes about two drops of a rinse agent in the rinse water to break the surface tension for moderately hard water. Two drops in one to two gallons is not a very strong concentration. Even that full concentration, of those two drops in the water, does not remain on the dishware as much of it sheets of with the bulk of the water. So to answer your question about, "why it would need a rinse agent dispenser" is because many people have water conditions that would warrant it. If rinse agents were not useful to many, manufacturer's would not install the injectors, trust me. Those who don't need or want it, don't use it. Those who do, will. And those who need a rinse agent, and have concerns, can use natural plant based agents.

Post# 1029927 , Reply# 4 4/15/2019 at 09:16 (1,835 days old) by Frigidaireguy (Wiston-Salem, NC)
Checkrate/Likes 2 *MAYTAG DISHWASHER* I bought this exact dishwasher about 6 weeks ago. It is a good unit - Doesn't seem to hold as much as my Whirlpool. It works great as a backup to my built-In. Bob

Post# 1029929 , Reply# 5 4/15/2019 at 10:24 (1,835 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)
Checkrate/Likes 1 *Maytag RR Portable DW* Yay Bob, these are fun DWs to try using, but because of the unusual loading pattern most of the DW buying public never liked the racking arrangement and MT wisely abandoned the design and their DW sales almost doubled within two years. Our biggest complaint was they did not hold as much as most other DWs and if you tried to load very heavily [ loading dishes on top of others ] the MTs just did not have as much water power and the middle dishes would come out dirty, the corners of the top rack were especially bad for cleaning unless they were items that could be washed from the top. John L.

Post# 1029954 , Reply# 6 4/15/2019 at 15:00 (1,834 days old) by reactor (Oak Ridge, Tennessee-- )
Checkrate/Likes 4 *cleaning ability* The Maytag Reverse Rack system was extremely popular. Lasting from 1969 to approx. 1991. Unpopular designs don't last 22 years, ha. Maytag only changed when they cheapened their dishwasher and went from the porcelain tub to the plastic. Maytag RR system is the most intuitive loading racking I have used. There is no learning curve. You can just look at it and see where everything goes. My favorite feature is the wide bowl holders. Bowls are head rock solid and don't tip over. Cleaning ability is quite good, as every RR owner on this site, except John, has stated. Maytag used a clever jet configuration. In wash arms, large jets give greater water mass, while small jets (or openings) in the wash arms give higher velocity but less mass of water. So Maytag's answer was small jets (virtually pinhole) to give stinging high water velocity for better scrubability, but a large number of holes per surface unit provide greater mass of water. That is about my only complaint of the RR is Tupperware and other plastics sometimes get tumbled due to the force. (as you can see in one of my pictures below.) As Maytag claims in their brochure (1985), their racking system held more dishes than any other brand. It's true. I could really cram them in. One cool feature is the full sized wash arm at the tub's top. This scrubbed the bottom of pots and pans placed in the upper rack. Great when something boiled over and left deposits on pan bottoms. Photos... < > Photo 1 of 4 View Full Size

Post# 1029975 , Reply# 7 4/15/2019 at 18:33 (1,834 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)
Checkrate/Likes 1 Maytag kept lots of designs that did not work optimally, but they were cheap and changed things marginally where necessary and possible and did not bother when it would have required major retooling. I hope the exterior of that electric skillet is not being introduced as an exhibit of the washing ability of that arm in the top. What came after was a disaster. The conventional racking with the same wash arm positions really limited what could be put where and how much the machine could hold even though it does wash well. There is one sentence in the user's manual about loading pans. "The upper rack of your dishwasher is designed with flexibility in mind. Glasses, cups, small plates, bowls, pans, etc. can be loaded in many different positions to suit your needs." There it is, the Kama Sutra of dishwasher loading talking about many different positions.

Post# 1029981 , Reply# 8 4/15/2019 at 19:15 (1,834 days old) by reactor (Oak Ridge, Tennessee-- )
Checkrate/Likes 1 RR Ha, Ha That GE electric skillet is nearly forty years old, an industrial jackhammer couldn't take all the years of burned on stuff from it's backside. Maytag's Reverse Rack was near optimal as you can see when you read the reviews of it in Consumer Reports over the years. They were wise to not mess with perfection. But no, I never liked the Maytags after they dispensed with the RR system and the beautiful porcelain tub, either. I bought one of the early plastic tub Maytag units at "Best Buy" and I hated it. It was a floor model they had. They wrapped it in cellophane and I took it home on my truck. Installed it that night and ran one load through it. First, the upper rack design was terrible, and I was not pleased with the single final rinse, at least I think it only had one final rinse, if I recall. I had a greasy skillet in there and it left a grease film on all the dishes after the wash. I had ripped up the cellophane wrap so, I had a new roll of Saran wrap and I used the whole thing to re-wrap it. I didn't tell them I had used it when I returned it to Best Buy the next day, I just said I had changed my mind. Unbelievably, they gave me a refund, no questions asked. That was my only experience with a conventionally racked Maytag until the tall tubs came out.

Post# 1030064 , Reply# 15 4/16/2019 at 13:27 (1,834 days old) by pulltostart (Mobile, AL)
Checkrate/Likes *Barry,* I sent an email to the email address in your profile. lawrence

Post# 1029986 , Reply# 9 4/15/2019 at 19:47 (1,834 days old) by reactor (Oak Ridge, Tennessee-- )
Checkrate/Likes *and...* By the way, tom. That picture of the load, with the skillet, was taken before I washed the load, not after. :)

Post# 1029990 , Reply# 10 4/15/2019 at 20:37 (1,834 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)
Checkrate/Likes 1 *Consumer reports Rating Of A MT RR DW* I seem to remember when in the early the MT RR was rated LAST for its very poor cleaning by CRs, They said it lest grit and film all over the dishes. If it had been such a success there was nothing keeping Maytag from making a new even bigger RR DW with a plastic tank, I worked for Maytag during the RR Dws and they were always trying to play catch-up with KA, GE and the WP Power-clean. John

Post# 1029996 , Reply# 11 4/15/2019 at 21:15 (1,834 days old) by reactor (Oak Ridge, Tennessee-- )
Checkrate/Likes *RR ratings* The only year that the reverse rack received low ratings was when, in an effort to claim "energy savings" they made the normal wash cycle only one wash followed by two rinses, period. They accomplished this by just moved the "normal wash" to half way through the cycle and the "heavy wash" used the entire cycle. This did not occur "early" in the RR history, but later when manufacturer's were going for energy savings in the late seventies. After getting a low review that year, Maytag went back to using the whole cycle for the normal wash, as they always had and then did from that time forward. Their ratings went back to the top echelon, as they were previously. The Reverse Racks have nothing to do with the cleanliness, only loading capability.

Post# 1030004 , Reply# 12 4/15/2019 at 21:59 (1,834 days old) by reactor (Oak Ridge, Tennessee-- )
Checkrate/Likes 2 *Consumer Reports Test Results-Maytag RR and Kitchen-Aid best* I just found a Consumer Reports Buying Guide which gave the ratings for the 1991 Maytag Reverse Rack. I tried to scan but it didn't come out legible. But here's the scoop: The Kitchen-Aid (KUDS22ST) and the Maytag RR (WU702) were the two top performing dishwashers of all the brands. In the second level (tier) of ratings came the GE (GSD2800L and GSD1200L), the Frigidaire (DW4500F) and Whirlpool (DU8900XT, and DU9400XT) In the third tier came the lower line GE, Sears and Hotpoints and in the fourth tier, dead last, was the Whirlpool (DU7400XS) Whirlpool made the Kitchen-Aids but the Whirlpools got lower ratings because of the lesser washing ability of flatware/silverware because of that silly on-the-door flatware rack and also because they didn't wash glassware as well as the Kitchen-Aids. (I didn't include the clones like Magic Chef and Jenn-Aire because they got the same ratings as their parent brands.) So your memory is a little selective, John, in that you just happened to remember only the year that Maytag got a bad rating because they only used half a cycle for the "normal wash" (just teasing you a little, ha)

Post# 1030025 , Reply# 13 4/16/2019 at 05:36 (1,834 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)
Checkrate/Likes 1 *1980s and 90s US DW Performace* Hi Barry, My memory and experiences are fine, I just don't have an agenda here to make a failed product out to be one of the greatest DWs ever. { I didn't take a three year break from appliances, I work with them everyday ] � CRs only tests DWs on their normal cycle. Not Pots and Pans and generally with Hi-Temp Washing turned off. This is why as you know that when MT thought they would ace the Energy Guide rating and they came up with a normal cycle that only included one wash and two rinses they came out dead last in CRs ratings. � Barry, you even mentioned in a recent thread that you modified a MT DW so it would pause and heat the water, WOW, now it has a chance to work as well as a WP-KM where you can heat the main wash & last rinse OR the first wash and main wash and last rinse to a guaranteed temperature with the motor running, every single item in the DW gets to the exact temperature, unlike KAs and waste-kings silly sump heating. � Or unlike MT RR machines that had a confusing array of different cycle configurations over the years that no one really knew what they did, MT even cheaped out and built RR models with no heater at all, that real dedication to making the best product possible. � Dozens of people on this site will attest to the fact that the standard tub WP-KM Power-Clean DWs are about the best cleaning machines ever built, Many on this site will also tell how much they loved their MT DW after the RR models throughout the 90s till the ill fated MT Tall-Tub models arrived. � Show us some before and after performance shots. � John Photos... < > Photo 1 of 14 View Full Size

Post# 1030040 , Reply# 14 4/16/2019 at 09:20 (1,834 days old) by reactor (Oak Ridge, Tennessee-- )
Checkrate/Likes 2 RR Lighten up, I was just joking with you John. I found it humorous, that you --just happened-- to remember one year our of twenty two, when the Maytag RR did not come out high in the ratings and stated it as if that was the case for the entire twenty-two year run, which it wasn't. Agreed. That is exactly right, Consumer Reports used and currently uses the "normal" cycle for testing purposes. That's exactly what I stated. And I agree with you as well when, as I stated, that Maytag shortened the cycle most likely to achieve a higher energy rating. The micro-mesh filter was so efficient that they thought they would just eliminate the pre-rinses and used one wash and two rinses. Consumer Reports stated that the RR machines, that year left a microscopic grit on the dishes. It had nothing to do with the quality of the machines, only that they were using a partial cycle. Maytag learned their lesson and went back to full cycles for the normal wash. Yes, I have had many RR and one of them was a BOL Jenn-Air, in which Maytag did not use any heating or cycle extensions. So I rigged mine up to act like their higher level line models and extend the cycle. And it did. So???? Yes, once I also modified a Hobart Kitchen-Aid to run while it heated the water to improve its cleaning performance, as it paused while the water was heating. It seemed like a waste of time when it could be scrubbing dishes while the water was heating. It worked. I took the addition of several relays but it worked. It was just a fun thing to do, being a tinkerer. BTW, Those weren't "recent" threads, I did both things years ago. I modify almost everything I have just in one way or another to just see what happens. I am just an experimenter by heart, ha. I am not sure why you are brining this up. Using proper logic, whether I experiment or not has nothing to do with a machine's inherent performance and the Maytag RR is top notch as it comes from the factory. But their BOL didn't have extended wash or heating, but you are trying to make it appear that none of their models did. Which is just not true. The above base line Maytag have the heated washes and rinses and extended cycles just as do the Kitchen Aid, Whirlpool and GE's. In fact the one in the picture I posted does just that. What you are saying just isn't true. There is nothing underperforming about the Maytag RR, They consistently toped out in CU's rating. As you can see in the 1991 models the Whirlpool labeled machines could not wash glassware nor flatware as well as their Kitchen-Aid machines. AND the Maytag RR machines also outwashed the Whirlpools in flatware and glassware as well. With flatware as Whirlpools on the door silverware holder was only a marketing scheme and detracted from performance. The Maytag RR exceeded Whirlpool's glassware washing abilities of the Whirlpool because of the greater filtration abilities. Virtually everyone's review of the Maytag RR on this site seems to be overwhelming positive, and in agreement with Consumer Reports as well. I have no idea what you are talking about "taking a three year break"??? Nobody on this site is putting down your favorite dishwasher, Whirlpool, John. ha. I have had several and they are solid machines. Whirlpool improved them a lot when they finally got the message and put a fine particle filter on them. They made a good thing even better. Maytag RR were sterling performers, that's just a fact. It doesn't take anything away from your favorite machine. Denigrating other machines than one's favorite and denigrating their opinions doesn't put your favorites in a better light, it fact it does just the opposite. I personally am not particularly a big fan of Whirlpool, but I don't dislike them, and I don't try to make them look bad to make my favorites look better. We are all on this site to have fun and share our experiences. Let's all get along and enjoy each other as well.