Thread Number: 79051
/ Tag: Refrigerators
My General Electric Refrigerator/Bottom Mount Freezer. P1 |
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Post# 1030013   4/16/2019 at 00:06 (1,808 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Part of the haul of vintage appliances from Newport, R.I. . Thanks to Jeannine (spacepig) for posting the ad, John (combo52) for letting me know, and a huge thank you to Scott (searsbest) for helping move and load those heavy appliances.
This is a General Electric Model TCF19DBC Serial # LB631067, If I am reading the code correctly, it was manufactured on January, 1969. As stated before, it is in remarkable condition for it's age. I was so impressed that I decided to replace my current G.E. Frost Guard with this one. The following are pictures taken in Brooklyn. This post was last edited 04/16/2019 at 00:29 |
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Post# 1030014 , Reply# 1   4/16/2019 at 00:14 (1,808 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1030015 , Reply# 2   4/16/2019 at 00:23 (1,808 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1030016 , Reply# 3   4/16/2019 at 00:27 (1,808 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1030017 , Reply# 4   4/16/2019 at 00:34 (1,808 days old) by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.)   |   | |
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That is a beautiful fridge Louie! They just don’t make them like this anymore, and the condition of yours is flawless. I especially like those beautiful, blue, porcelain crisper drawers. Not like the plastic, throw away crap they make now. You ought to get many years of service from this one.
Congratulations on the score. Eddie |
Post# 1030019 , Reply# 5   4/16/2019 at 01:24 (1,808 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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However, there is bad news. It doesn't work. Yup, from one bad G.E. to another. So here are the symptoms:
1) It lights up, fan in the refrigerator compartment goes on. 2) Fan in freezer compartment does not turn on. 3) Condenser fan does not turn on. 4) Compressor does not start. 5) Refrigerator compartment starts to get hot (sound familiar?). Like stuck on the defrost cycle. 6) Amp draw is 0.737
7) Should be 5.8
Soooo, there you have it. I am open to suggestions.
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Post# 1030028 , Reply# 6   4/16/2019 at 06:52 (1,808 days old) by spacepig (Floridas Emerald Coast)   |   | |
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Post# 1030030 , Reply# 7   4/16/2019 at 07:09 (1,808 days old) by turquoisedude (.)   |   | |
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Louis, the fridge looks great, but I'm so disappointed to hear that it doesn't seem to be working!
It sounds as if there may be a couple of issues from what you are describing. Perhaps the defrost timer is stuck and forcing the system into a permanent-defrost cycle. There may be a way to manually advance it out of defrost mode. There may also be an issue with a starting/running relay - I gave up too quickly on a really old Westinghouse fridge that wouldn't cool and it turned out to be a bad relay. I wish I knew more and could offer better suggestions, but I'm rooting for you! It's a beauty of a fridge for sure. Betty Draper would be proud.... LOL |
Post# 1030065 , Reply# 8   4/16/2019 at 14:06 (1,807 days old) by RP2813 (Sannazay)   |   | |
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Post# 1030088 , Reply# 10   4/16/2019 at 18:48 (1,807 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1030132 , Reply# 11   4/17/2019 at 15:18 (1,806 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1030211 , Reply# 12   4/18/2019 at 16:18 (1,805 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1030213 , Reply# 13   4/18/2019 at 16:32 (1,805 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1030227 , Reply# 14   4/18/2019 at 18:03 (1,805 days old) by turbokinetic (Northport, Alabama USA)   |   | |
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Interesting about the fan. I bet that will be easy to change. As for the timer, if there is no change when it's moved then the contacts are probably bad in the timer. It's likely not sending power to the compressor. |
Post# 1030229 , Reply# 15   4/18/2019 at 18:30 (1,805 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1030232 , Reply# 16   4/18/2019 at 19:34 (1,805 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1030233 , Reply# 17   4/18/2019 at 19:43 (1,805 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1030261 , Reply# 18   4/19/2019 at 10:58 (1,805 days old) by Northwesty (Renton, WA)   |   | |
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That old timer really is toast I would drill out those rivets and take a look inside. You might be able to tweak and clean it. |
Post# 1030268 , Reply# 19   4/19/2019 at 12:43 (1,804 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1030280 , Reply# 20   4/19/2019 at 14:40 (1,804 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1030301 , Reply# 21   4/19/2019 at 19:30 (1,804 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1030308 , Reply# 22   4/19/2019 at 21:13 (1,804 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1030330 , Reply# 23   4/20/2019 at 08:46 (1,804 days old) by spacepig (Floridas Emerald Coast)   |   | |
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Post# 1030332 , Reply# 24   4/20/2019 at 08:55 (1,804 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1030371 , Reply# 25   4/20/2019 at 20:09 (1,803 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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According to the multimeter, the compressor checked out OK. The starter relay wires were in bad shape. They literally crumbled. Unknown if there was a break before I pulled it off but I am willing to bet there was. If the refrigerator is salvageable, there is a way I can keep it, at least for the time being. I can remove my current G.E. refrigerator from the utility closet, put that in the kitchen, and place the Newport G.E. in the utility closet. No problem with room there. Next stop a starter relay and some new wiring. This post was last edited 04/20/2019 at 21:34 |
Post# 1030382 , Reply# 26   4/20/2019 at 21:32 (1,803 days old) by spacepig (Floridas Emerald Coast)   |   | |
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Post# 1030578 , Reply# 27   4/22/2019 at 19:35 (1,801 days old) by mtn1584 (USA)   |   | |
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I have been waiting for pictures for a long time! Is it finished? If not what are you using? Mike |
Post# 1030581 , Reply# 28   4/22/2019 at 19:52 (1,801 days old) by ken (NYS)   |   | |
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Post# 1030585 , Reply# 29   4/22/2019 at 21:24 (1,801 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Even with the feet off it is still too tall Ken. Just ordered a new starter/relay. Hopefully the G.E. will be in service by this weekend. I desperately need a second refrigerator. My current one is packed.
Mike, I still have to remove the inner tub. Eventually I will get to it. I'm currently using a compact Magic Chef washer. |
Post# 1030939 , Reply# 30   4/27/2019 at 01:10 (1,797 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1030940 , Reply# 31   4/27/2019 at 01:26 (1,797 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1030984 , Reply# 32   4/27/2019 at 16:36 (1,796 days old) by spacepig (Floridas Emerald Coast)   |   | |
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Post# 1030996 , Reply# 33   4/27/2019 at 18:08 (1,796 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1030997 , Reply# 34   4/27/2019 at 18:09 (1,796 days old) by turbokinetic (Northport, Alabama USA)   |   | |
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Hi Louis! That's great news. That round thing with the broken terminal looks like the motor's overload breaker. The Supco device has its own breaker in it so that one will not be necessary. Is that "pigtail" piece what broke off the overload breaker? |
Post# 1030999 , Reply# 35   4/27/2019 at 18:21 (1,796 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Because I am using the 3'n1, I must find out where certain wires will go now.
This is the secondary relay that was located right next to the plug-in relay on the compressor: The numbers are to keep track of what wire went where originally.
Notice tab #2 on relay seemed to have broken off. However I cannot find a wire that would had gone there.
#1 and #2 wires go to the power cord.
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Post# 1031002 , Reply# 36   4/27/2019 at 18:36 (1,796 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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And here is the plugin relay that was substituted with the 3 'n 1:
Notice #3 wire tab has broken off as well.
#3 wire is the pigtail that comes off the power cord.
UPDATE: John (Combo52) has informed me there never was a #3 tab on the relay. So where would the #3 wire go to?
#4 wire goes to the condenser fan.
Other images of the plugin relay. |
Post# 1031003 , Reply# 37   4/27/2019 at 18:41 (1,796 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1031057 , Reply# 38   4/28/2019 at 05:41 (1,796 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Regarding reply #30, 4 amps is about right, 5 or 6 would be too high except under extreme operating conditions.
Plug the ref in and let the compressor run for a while and see if it starts to cool on the freezers evaporator and the condenser should get pretty or even hot to the touch as well, if so you have a good chance it still has a decent R-12 charge in it.
John |
Post# 1031062 , Reply# 39   4/28/2019 at 06:43 (1,796 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1031177 , Reply# 40   4/29/2019 at 05:00 (1,795 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1031178 , Reply# 41   4/29/2019 at 05:04 (1,795 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1031179 , Reply# 42   4/29/2019 at 05:15 (1,795 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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I ran the fridge (sans condenser fan) for about 20 minutes. The compressor was getting noisier and you can smell a hot odor, not burning, but when something is getting too hot. Temperature in the refrigerator section dropped from 78F to 60F in that time period. There is no evaporator fan in the freezer section since I am still waiting for a replacement motor (supposedly arriving today). Regardless the freezer was getting cold. Amp usage hovered around 4.6. If anything, it seems the refrigerator still has a good charge in it. This post was last edited 04/29/2019 at 09:42 |
Post# 1031330 , Reply# 44   4/30/2019 at 08:45 (1,794 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1031340 , Reply# 45   4/30/2019 at 10:21 (1,794 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Post# 1031347 , Reply# 46   4/30/2019 at 12:05 (1,793 days old) by kenwashesmonday (Carlstadt, NJ)   |   | |
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I don't believe it's been mentioned that, once you get the condenser fan running, it's very important to replace the cardboard rear cover or it will overheat. |
Post# 1031351 , Reply# 47   4/30/2019 at 12:35 (1,793 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1031352 , Reply# 48   4/30/2019 at 12:38 (1,793 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1031370 , Reply# 49   4/30/2019 at 16:23 (1,793 days old) by Searsbest (Attleboro, Ma)   |   | |
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Post# 1031419 , Reply# 50   4/30/2019 at 21:01 (1,793 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1031524 , Reply# 51   5/2/2019 at 00:27 (1,792 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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The condenser fan is working (loose connection, DOH!).
In addition, the NOS freezer evaporator fan has been installed and working.
I covered up the back, and it's cooling. We'll see where we are in awhile.
Here's a close-up of the hot gas defrost valve. No luck in finding a wiring schematic for this model so far. The wire that was capped went to the overload relay.
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Post# 1031527 , Reply# 52   5/2/2019 at 01:32 (1,792 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Temperature in refrigerator section has dropped to 38F. Freezer is ice cold. As I feared, the compressor has not cycled off yet. I really need to resolve the the hot gas defrost valve issue.
Anyone have any idea where that wire would go?
Or perhaps it is the defrost timer? This post was last edited 05/02/2019 at 05:46 |
Post# 1031529 , Reply# 53   5/2/2019 at 02:02 (1,792 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1031534 , Reply# 55   5/2/2019 at 06:02 (1,792 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1031757 , Reply# 56   5/4/2019 at 05:18 (1,790 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1031766 , Reply# 57   5/4/2019 at 08:21 (1,790 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1031805 , Reply# 58   5/4/2019 at 17:17 (1,789 days old) by turbokinetic (Northport, Alabama USA)   |   | |
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So frustrating! Hope a wiring diagram can be found! |
Post# 1031819 , Reply# 59   5/4/2019 at 19:43 (1,789 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1031824 , Reply# 60   5/4/2019 at 20:57 (1,789 days old) by spacepig (Floridas Emerald Coast)   |   | |
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Post# 1031826 , Reply# 61   5/4/2019 at 21:09 (1,789 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Hi Jennine. I would imagine the 1965 is the closest to mine if you have it. I now believe mine is a 1968 model. Judging from the amount of bare/broken wiring I found, I'd say this refrigerator has been out of service for many years, which may explain why it's so pristine. So far, every time I put in my model number I have gotten nothing. |
Post# 1031829 , Reply# 62   5/4/2019 at 21:25 (1,789 days old) by spacepig (Floridas Emerald Coast)   |   | |
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Post# 1031832 , Reply# 63   5/4/2019 at 23:24 (1,789 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1031864 , Reply# 64   5/5/2019 at 11:11 (1,788 days old) by spacepig (Floridas Emerald Coast)   |   | |
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Hi Louis, Unfortunately, I have not had much luck. Neither of the Americanas have a wiring diagram on the back, nor did the 1965. I did attach pictures from the 1961 manual for model number TC-469V which is top fridge with swing out shelves and bottom freezer, although it may be too old to be similar. These are just the diagrams, there are a few other pages about electrical parts that I can scan for you. I've also attached pictures of the compressor from one of the Americanas, and also of the 1965 Coppertone when we had the back off to blow out the dust before installing it in the house. Not sure if any of this is helpful.
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Post# 1031879 , Reply# 65   5/5/2019 at 15:07 (1,788 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Post# 1031921 , Reply# 66   5/6/2019 at 03:22 (1,788 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1038386 , Reply# 67   7/16/2019 at 02:58 (1,717 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1039887 , Reply# 68   7/29/2019 at 17:26 (1,703 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1039888 , Reply# 69   7/29/2019 at 17:28 (1,703 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1039890 , Reply# 70   7/29/2019 at 18:19 (1,703 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1039895 , Reply# 72   7/29/2019 at 18:50 (1,703 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1039896 , Reply# 73   7/29/2019 at 18:50 (1,703 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1039909 , Reply# 75   7/29/2019 at 20:59 (1,703 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1039917 , Reply# 76   7/29/2019 at 22:10 (1,703 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1039949 , Reply# 77   7/30/2019 at 04:37 (1,703 days old) by turbokinetic (Northport, Alabama USA)   |   | |
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.... that this morning brings a really good outcome! |
Post# 1039952 , Reply# 79   7/30/2019 at 05:26 (1,703 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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It's working beautifully. Refrigerator temperature is 37F @ #5 on the thermostat. Freezer ice trays have all set and it's cycling correctly. Did I mention it's whisper quiet?
David, I can't thank you enough. Your expertise saved yet another vintage refrigerator. Man, you're on a roll!
I also want to thank wholeheartedly John (Combo52), for all his advice and help.
A big thank you to Jeannine for the schematics. And thanks everyone for their advice and encouragement. Next stop, COSTCO!
BTW, David, yes, I had removed a large, one piece fiberglass mat from the back of the refrigerator in order to see where the wiring was going. It was far easier to remove than to put back! I'll post a few more pictures of the compressor compartment before I button it up. |
Post# 1039958 , Reply# 81   7/30/2019 at 06:26 (1,703 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Yay Louie and David, you got it going, A big Thank You to David who has more patience than I do, It is often harder for me to explain something to some one else. I knew once you got the compressor to run with the 3-in-1 relay that this ref would be OK, by this time period these GE refs were pretty bulletproof.
As David suggested put all insulation back and be sure the black metal rear cover is sealed perfectly to the cabinet, even tiny air leaks will cause problems in time with frost and moisture in the insulation. Probably fresh new soft Permagum is the best choice.
John L. |
Post# 1039959 , Reply# 82   7/30/2019 at 06:36 (1,703 days old) by spacepig (Floridas Emerald Coast)   |   | |
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Post# 1039962 , Reply# 83   7/30/2019 at 06:53 (1,703 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1040219 , Reply# 84   7/31/2019 at 20:45 (1,701 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Final reassembly of rear panels.
Yes, that is a trash bag. Because the rear panel was not sealed properly, the fiberglass insulation was damp. After drying it out, as a extra measure, I added the plastic to protect the insulation. As John suggested, I applied Permagum to seal the rear panel tightly againt the refrigerator back.
Supco 3 and 1 starter relay in it's permanent location, wiring tidied up.
All buttoned up. |
Post# 1040236 , Reply# 85   8/1/2019 at 04:56 (1,701 days old) by turbokinetic (Northport, Alabama USA)   |   | |
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Awe yeah that looks very good! The new permagum really will help minimize the frost buildup, as well! |
Post# 1040276 , Reply# 86   8/1/2019 at 10:51 (1,701 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1040278 , Reply# 87   8/1/2019 at 11:12 (1,700 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1040329 , Reply# 88   8/1/2019 at 18:47 (1,700 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1040581 , Reply# 90   8/3/2019 at 21:45 (1,698 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1040617 , Reply# 91   8/4/2019 at 07:55 (1,698 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1040618 , Reply# 92   8/4/2019 at 08:09 (1,698 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK)   |   | |
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Post# 1040622 , Reply# 93   8/4/2019 at 08:30 (1,698 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Post# 1040631 , Reply# 94   8/4/2019 at 08:46 (1,698 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1040650 , Reply# 95   8/4/2019 at 11:33 (1,697 days old) by turbokinetic (Northport, Alabama USA)   |   | |
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Glad that the new start device solved the problem. I have a feeling the original could have been a knock-off. |
Post# 1040670 , Reply# 96   8/4/2019 at 14:47 (1,697 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1040718 , Reply# 97   8/4/2019 at 20:49 (1,697 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1040722 , Reply# 98   8/4/2019 at 21:10 (1,697 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Post# 1040724 , Reply# 99   8/4/2019 at 21:25 (1,697 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1040727 , Reply# 100   8/4/2019 at 22:20 (1,697 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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