Thread Number: 79102  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
VMW WTW4930XW1 Trouble
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Post# 1030353   4/20/2019 at 15:28 by DADoES (TX,U.S. of A.)        

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At one of RJ's rental properties.

Complaint: Not working.

Secondary complaint: Dryer takes too long.

Fault Codes: F7 E1 (basket speed sensor fault); F7 E5 (motor unable to reach target RPM)

Observation: Agitator runs in only one direction (clockwise), does not oscillate. No spin, basket is locked/jammed, cannot be rotated by hand at any time, whether actuator/mode shifter is in agitate or spin.

Diagnosis: No spin/jammed basket = broken splutch or bad transmission? Agitation failure = bad transmission or bad capacitor?

Have not yet pulled machine out for examination. Waiting for confirmation whether tenants need it to get caught up on laundry (without consideration of it not working, LOL), and/or whether one of my spares will be temporarily swapped-in.


Post# 1030362 , Reply# 1   4/20/2019 at 17:52 by henene4 (Germany)        

Sounds more like the speed sensor is your main culprit there. That should be integrated in the mode shifter if I'm not mistaken which could also be the cause of the agitation issues.

Appears to me that the PCB reverses the motor after it saw the speed sensor reporting a certain speed and direction for a certain time.



That could also be the PCB however.


Did you physicly confirm the mode shifter actually even tries to switch?

If it does I would guess on more physical damage rather then the capacitor...



But that's just guessing here...


Post# 1030370 , Reply# 2   4/20/2019 at 20:02 by Lorainfurniture (Cleveland )        

Tip it back , look at the capacitor. The two fault codes are one in the same. They both point at the shifter. The stuck tub sounds like a different issue, if it was it would throw a different code. Look for clothes between the tubs. The tub should move regardless of shifter position.

The agitating one way is a curve ball, thats usually a capacitor issue.


Post# 1030373 , Reply# 3   4/20/2019 at 20:17 by DADoES (TX,U.S. of A.)        

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The shifter/actuator seems to work. It clicks/clacks when selecting agitation or spin in diagnostics.

This is the machine that previously had a small bootie-sock jammed in the pump ... so it's a given that the tenants overload it (although I "sternly" instructed them against it after the sock incident).

There are no local parts sources, anything needed must be ordered. I have a spare pump, ordered one at the sock incident when finding that it didn't run, before pulling the machine down to investigate ... kept the new pump for future use.

Haven't yet heard back from the tenants regards to swapping-in a loaner machine, so the VMW isn't yet out for investigation. Surely will pull the basket to check for a stray item. If that solves that problem, maybe will order both a capacitor and actuator.


Post# 1031027 , Reply# 4   4/27/2019 at 20:30 by DADoES (TX,U.S. of A.)        

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Model-year 2010. Serial 2012 16th wk.

Fetched the machine this afternoon for examination (swapped-in my GSQ9669LW1 for the interim, which is 9 years older and in 1000x better condition, LOL).

The basket that was previously locked-up-tight somehow corrected during the past 7 days. It had a slight drag when I first checked it today but then loosened-up to feel normal.

It still doesn't spin. Manual diagnostic, High or Low spin, it makes the slightest nudge, and nothing. The lid lock then won't release unless the power cord is pulled/reconnected. The lock does release after any other manual diagnostic test, just not after a spin attempt.

It still doesn't oscillate for agitation, only runs clockwise.

Pulled the basket just to see, no piece of clothing or other foreign object under it.

The capacitor seems to test good if I'm doing that correctly ... ohms mode, reads 0 then infinity on each swap across the terminals. I suppose that doesn't necessarily mean it's good.

The actuator/mode shifter shifts for both agitate and spin. Is it perhaps bad regards to the RPM sensing function?

Same fault codes as before.

Note in the pics, the cracked back edge of the tub, broken top edge of the tub ring in the same area, and the lower edge of the tub ring is broken such that there's no anchor on three of the tub tabs. Mystery how that happened.

Pic 13 shows the crack-out on the edge of the tub beneath the tub ring in normal position. Pic 14 I'm pulling upwards on the tub ring.


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Post# 1031028 , Reply# 5   4/27/2019 at 20:34 by chetlaham (United States)        

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Considering the age and amount of broken/iffy parts I'd just replace the entire machine.


Rental property yes, but it may be worth looking into a Speed Queen ;) Treat your fellow brothers and sisters right ;)


Post# 1031032 , Reply# 6   4/27/2019 at 20:49 by henene4 (Germany)        
RPM sensor

Machine won't unlock after a spin was attempted unless it can verify the tub is standing still.

During agitation tests it locks into agitation and won't check for motor rpm probably, and reversing for agitation might depend on rpm checks.
Is the agitation intermittent or a continous movement?


Post# 1031072 , Reply# 7   4/28/2019 at 08:37 by DADoES (TX,U.S. of A.)        

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Considering the age ... oh my! It's only 7 years per the serial. RJ bought it used 3 years ago from a local WP dealer. Their story was that it needed a repair for a part that was on backorder and the customer didn't want to wait so bought a new machine, and they (the dealer) sold the machine (after the repair) as a used/refurb.

I've zeroed-in on the capacitor as the problem, I think.

Agitation is intermittent motor operation as it should be, it just runs in the same direction on each pulse. I could be wrong but I don't think the RPM sensor is involved in agitation.

Spin test, the motor nudges a bit then quits as if it's trying but can't get going.

Apparently I wasn't waiting long enough for it to unlock. What happens after a spin test in Diagnostics ... any further agitation or spin tests (that involve motor operation) or lock/unlock test results in all the lights flashing together quickly three times --- flash-flash-flash -- then the lights for the selected test function flash slowly. Non-motor tests (inlet valves or pump) operate the target component. I waited longer after a (lock)/unlock test and it did unlock.


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Post# 1031103 , Reply# 8   4/28/2019 at 16:02 by Supersurgilator (Indiana)        

I certainly hope you can get it back up and running and get your other machine out of their house! With the abuse this machine has seen, I'd hate to see the other get trashed. If I was a renter, forget a SQ, I'd just get them the cheapest thing possible, knowing it won't be taken care of.

Post# 1031582 , Reply# 9   5/2/2019 at 15:21 by DADoES (TX,U.S. of A.)        

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Capacitor was the agitation & spin fix.

Except ... the spin bearing is bad. Roars like a train. Presumably that's why the basket was seized at the initial exam, the machine hadn't spun properly in several weeks and it got stuck? Begs the question of why/how did it loosen-up now.


Post# 1031688 , Reply# 10   5/3/2019 at 12:49 by DADoES (TX,U.S. of A.)        

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RJ's reaction is ... they (the tenants) are used to it (the noise) by now and with my luck something else major will go wrong if the transmission is replaced so let's put it back there as-is.

Is there a potential for leaking on the floor through the compromised tub seal & bearing? He has wood laminate flooring at that rental (yes, in the laundry closet). The tenants aren't going to notice a small drip/leak which can do enough damage over time to be a problem.

I found a transmission for $150 incl shipping. Thing is I have a spare new pump from the previous jammed-sock incident (which I've swapped-in and it runs much better than the original pump), and also already invested in the capacitor and a tub ring. The machine isn't worth $325 for repair when a new Amana at Home Depot is going for $397 or a Roper at Lowes for $399. A few used transmissions for much less are on eBay but I don't trust used condition on that item.

Both sisters have VMW machines (one is a Kenmore also at a rental property, the other an Amana but 6 hrs away) so the pump and capacitor (if both take the same items) work as a spares for those ...


Post# 1031700 , Reply# 11   5/3/2019 at 15:58 by Lorainfurniture (Cleveland )        

Dont fix it. Its never just the gearcase. There are some pieces that you will likely have to break to remove the gearcase.

Post# 1031729 , Reply# 12   5/3/2019 at 19:30 by DADoES (TX,U.S. of A.)        

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I don't expect RJ will want the repair done ... I don't have the space to store another refreshed machine so am unlikely to do it for myself.

I'm curious, what all parts/pieces may need to be broken for the removal? I suspect the drive pulley would be an effort to remove and possibly break in the process. I've already removed and reinstalled the agitator and basket. I'd expect the basket drive block would need refreshing.


Post# 1031747 , Reply# 13   5/3/2019 at 23:06 by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        
Replacing the transmission in a VMW WP Built Washer

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It is not that hard to do and you are unlikely to have to break parts to get it done, BUT unless you can get the parts for less than the regular price of around $300+ it just is not worth the effort for such a poor durability-poor performing machine.

 

John L.


Post# 1033562 , Reply# 14   5/24/2019 at 20:13 by DADoES (TX,U.S. of A.)        

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I asked RJ last week "What am I supposed to do with the machinery on my patio?"

"I thought you're fixing it."

OK, allrightythen.

Found a transmission for $119 and some cents from an online source, under an older part number. Add a basket drive block and extra shipping for the "large" item, total $159.

As Combo says above, it's an easy-enough job.



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Post# 1033563 , Reply# 15   5/24/2019 at 20:15 by DADoES (TX,U.S. of A.)        

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Post# 1033565 , Reply# 16   5/24/2019 at 20:40 by DADoES (TX,U.S. of A.)        

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How the splutch drive works ...

1) The agitate (inside, metal) and spin (outside, plastic) drive shafts are concentric.

2) Splutch spring.

The basket drive gear sits atop the cam ring in the splutch housing. The ring and housing have molded bosses that lift or lower the drive gear when the ring rotates forward or back as controlled by the mode shifter / actuator.

3) Spin position, the basket drive gear is lowered.

4) Agitate position, the basket drive gear is raised.

5) The basket drive gear mates to the outer basket drive on the transmission.

6) The transmission drive pulley mounts to the inner agitate drive shaft on the transmission. It has splines molded into the top surface.

The basket drive gear is lifted up away from the pulley splines when the mode shifter is in agitate position so the pulley drives only the agitate shaft (the basket drive shaft rotates/indexes during agitation due to friction between the shafts and lack of a brake to hold the basket from turning).

The basket drive gear is moved down to mate to the pulley splines when the mode shifter is in spin position, which has the pulley driving both the agitate and spin shafts on the transmission.

7 & 8) Mode shifter / actuator. The two white plastic pieces at the left is the RPM sensor. It fits up into the slot in the transmission housing and optically reads the rotation of the basket via the notched gear that's coupled to the basket drive.


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Post# 1033566 , Reply# 17   5/24/2019 at 20:41 by DADoES (TX,U.S. of A.)        

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Post# 1033572 , Reply# 18   5/24/2019 at 22:07 by IowaBear (Cedar Rapids, IA)        

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Thank you for the detailed pictures and explanations.

 

I must say the mode-shifter / actuator part (reply #16, photo 7) doesn't look very robust.

 


Post# 1033574 , Reply# 19   5/24/2019 at 22:23 by henene4 (Germany)        

The system moves rather slowly (about 10sec I would guestimate per shift) and shouldn't have to move much weight or against much of any force.

And that is the funny thing: These shifters - from what me finds online - rarely ever physicly fail.

What often fails are the RPS and mode shifter position sensors, resulting in the often eratic failure picture and the well known coresponding error codes.

If the machine can't know if the tub moves or not, it will always default to fail save and keep the lid locked, the motor off and the mode shifter probably in agitate position until it has a known state.





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