Thread Number: 79297  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Why no timer on Speed Queen Classic?
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Post# 1032235   5/9/2019 at 17:38 by chetlaham (United States)        

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Looked at this vid today:







Cycle doesn't look all that special- I mean nothing that a timer and multi level pressure switch can't pull off.


Post# 1032238 , Reply# 1   5/9/2019 at 18:23 by Lorainfurniture (Cleveland )        

Electric controls are more reliable generally speaking than mechanical timers. Or at least as far as speed queen timers.

Post# 1032239 , Reply# 2   5/9/2019 at 18:24 by LowEfficiency (Iowa)        

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Which is cheaper, simpler, or more reliable is perhaps a matter of perspective.

But my guess is that Speed Queen is looking a ways out into the future, and based on what everyone else in the industry has done, simply doesn't know how long mechanical timers or their component parts will still be readily available.

See for example this news article about the struggles of Midwest Timer Service last year...
mibiz.com/item/25541-after-loss-...


Post# 1032243 , Reply# 3   5/9/2019 at 20:00 by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        
SQ Electronic TL Washers

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Electro-Mechaneal Timers are SO 20th century

 

SQ has been building transmission based TL washers for nearly 20 years, they are more reliable.

 

The mechanical timers on SQ TL washers were the single biggest service problem, I dealt with THREE SQ TL Washers today with timer problems, as much as I loved the seeming simplicity of MTs the time for them is GONE.

 

John L.

 

 


Post# 1032244 , Reply# 4   5/9/2019 at 20:11 by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        
time changes

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as mention time change we are now in an electronic era you won't see washing machine with mechanical timers anymore unless you buy a model from 2015 or ealier if you look at some washers today you can even start your washer via your iphone or other smart phones you have if the washer is on the house wifi

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Post# 1032245 , Reply# 5   5/9/2019 at 20:22 by chetlaham (United States)        

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Those that you serviced, were they AWN452s?


Just because a technology is old, doesn't mean we should abandon it. Wheels are old tech too...


Post# 1032249 , Reply# 6   5/9/2019 at 22:27 by johnb300m (Chicago)        

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Timers are being abandoned not simply because they're "old" but because companies have deemed them NOT cost effective to keep making/buying.
Timers have lots of mechanical parts that need to be stamped out or molded. On top of motors, and housings, and wiring.

Today, there's electrical board houses everywhere where standard chipsets and transistors, resistors can be combined on boards, and virtually PRINTED OUT for anyone.
The programming is super easy if you're not making a fuzzy logic controller.
They're simple ladder logic that any EE intern could help set up.
Way cheaper, faster, and often more reliable now, to just put control boards in washers and other appliances these days.
Just the way it is.


Post# 1032253 , Reply# 7   5/9/2019 at 22:58 by Maytag85 (Sean A806)        

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What I like about mechanical timers is you can start or stop them at any time, and if you want more wash time, you can turn the timer back around for more wash time. If you machine doesn’t have a soak cycle, you can just punch the knob in to stop it, or leave the lid open.

Speed Queen offers more flexibility in their electronic controls, but Whirlpool doesn’t offer much flexibility, and if you wanted to soak clothes in Whirlpool’s newer belt drive machines, you have to pause the machine, and the machine will probably drain the water out, and will have to refill.

Mechanical timers and electronic controls both have their pros and cons, but it is a matter of preference.


Post# 1032257 , Reply# 8   5/9/2019 at 23:18 by ea56 (Sonoma Co.,CA)        
Re: Reply#7

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“Whirlpool doesn’t offer much flexibility, and if you wanted to soak clothes in Whirlpool’s newer belt drive machines, you have to pause the machine, and the machine will probably drain the water out, and will have to refill.”


Sean, I prefer mechanical timers too for the same reasons you list.

I have a Maytag Centennial that is based on the Whirlpool belt drive you mentioned above. As long as you leave the lid closed after you hit pause you can soak for as long as you like and the water won’t drain. Just push the start button when you’ve soaked long enough and the cycle will resume where it left off. However, if you leave the lid open after you hit pause and don’t close it within 10 minutes it will drain and you’ll need to refill to complete the load.

Eddie


Post# 1032261 , Reply# 9   5/10/2019 at 00:11 by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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Electronic controls that are properly designed, which aren't all that common, can be very flexible.  F&P's Eco Smart models have an Advance button that shifts through Wash, Rinse 1 (spin-spray), Rinse 2 (deep rinse), and spin.  Pausing the cycle and pressing it repeatedly wraps back around to the wash period.  Two-hr Soak option, which can be cut to 1 hr with the Time Saver option, or manually Advanced after however long one wants.  TOL Intuitive Eco also has a semi-automatic Prewash (5 mins cold wash, drain, then beeps for attention to add another dose of detergent and press Start to continue), and Soak can also be added to it.


Post# 1032262 , Reply# 10   5/10/2019 at 00:11 by Maytag85 (Sean A806)        

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Eddie there are some good things about electronic controls, but they have never been very flexible, and some machines like the newer LG and Samsung machines have over 10 cycles, but most of them are just your 3 to 4 normal cycles with a different label/name on them if that makes sense. Sometimes the 3 or 4 cycles that are on machines with mechanical timers work perfectly fine, and when they refer to the machine having 6 cycles they don’t always mean it has 6 separate cycles, 6 cycles as in suggested wash/cycle times.

I will say machines with mechanical timers are good for if you have a summer or vacation homes, and if the machine in only being used a couple months out of the year, it will work perfectly fine with no issues, and it won’t be very practical to have a fancy TOL machine if it’s only being used a couple months out of the year.


Post# 1032272 , Reply# 11   5/10/2019 at 06:29 by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        
Sean/Maytag85:

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Well, in my case, what about the other TEN?

Yes, my daily driver, and if only you could see all that laundry amasssed all around...

So, then, is it TIME to adapt to the new technology, as my timer froze right where you see it, while it's finally going on two weeks my washer's been out of commission, before, finallly a call from my repair center promises to get her, once and for all, back on her feet, unless all that laundry wears something else out, or maybe that timer again...

In short: Can Today's Technology STILL make something still, not necessarily of Old Fashioned-importance, USER-FRIENDLY????!!!! (That is, EASY TO USE?!)



-- Dave


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Post# 1032282 , Reply# 12   5/10/2019 at 08:36 by eurekastar (Amarillo, Texas)        
Bottom Line

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Is it cheaper to produce an electronic time? 


Post# 1032313 , Reply# 13   5/10/2019 at 13:57 by chetlaham (United States)        

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FWIW BOL dryers and BOL GE DW still use timers.

Post# 1032317 , Reply# 14   5/10/2019 at 14:49 by pro104 (brooksville florida)        

is this washer replacing the 2018 model that was not real popular without the transmission?

Post# 1032337 , Reply# 15   5/10/2019 at 19:57 by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        
Reply # 14

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No, they are going to try and sell the transmission-less 2018 machines, I predict that they will redesign them to have better agitation by allowing the agitator and tub to move independently.

 

John


Post# 1032508 , Reply# 16   5/13/2019 at 07:10 by PinkPower4 (USA)        
Pause on Maytag mvwp575gw Tip and More on ATC...

According to the Maytag mvwp575gw's manual, "IMPORTANT: If the lid is left open for more than 10 minutes, the water will pump out automatically."

However, since I disabled my lid lock by unscrewing the lid lock and placing the latch into the slot, the washer does not realize the lid is open. Therefore, the water does not drain out :-). For those who need to extend the presoak, wash, or rinse cycle (laundry sanitizers added to the rinse cycle require more time than the normal rinse cycle runs), this tip may help! It does require disabling a safety feature though, which is not recommended for homes with small children or curious pets like cats. They could be seriously injured or worse--the washer spins fast.

Also, I enabled the Automatic Temperature Control (ATC) and played around more with it some more. I have a gas water heater and set it around 120 degrees F. I do not think most people who use that recommended setting will notice much difference in the temperature of hot and warm water. Hot was too hot to leave my hand in the water. Warm was a nice warm. One can still use the trick of placing the knob on hot for the first part of the wash fill and moving the knob to warm or cold for the remainder of the fill to manually adjust temperature.

The real difference in the Normal (Eco) cycle. Hot is barely lukewarm. Warm is more like Cool maybe even cold. My hot water is not enough on its own to kill germs, and I have to use bleach or Lysol sanitizer anyway. I began to wonder if there is really any benefit to disabling ATC?




Post# 1032927 , Reply# 17   5/18/2019 at 02:50 by tolivac (greenville nc)        

The SQ washer shown in the video seems like a good replacement for the "Maytag"--Maypool,Whirltag VMW machine I bought to replace my seized up HP rimflow.I have disabled the lid switch on the "Maytag" since this machine has a hard time balancing--so I have to help it by arranging the load manually upon spin after drain.The thing drains fast but fills SLOWLY like the Chinese water torture!Too many pauses--wasting precious time.Slow fill-another time waster.When my Maytag has to rebalance it tries by refilling and agitating.Sometimes a few times before I could help it.The VMW design needs to go to the shredder!!!!!!I do unplug my machine since it does have the timer board and to protect it from unexpected storms we get here.Pretty much same on the whole East coast-storms can strike without warning.

Post# 1033612 , Reply# 18   5/25/2019 at 18:25 by LowEfficiency (Iowa)        

lowefficiency's profile picture

So I randomly ran across this set of articles from Speed Queen in 2016, comparing their electronic vs mechanical controls:

speedqueen.com/smart/2016-q3/ele...


Cliff notes: It's basically fluff.

They claim that their electronic controls are designed to last 25 years, and buttons are lab tested for an equivalent number of cycles. I'm not debating the reliability of their electronic controls, but they provide no design targets or service statistics to say how reliable their equivalent mechanical controls are. So when the document says "Our electronic controls are even more reliable than our mechanical controls... Here's why", it's not actually saying why.

Likewise, in the separate Washer and Dryer PDFs, they list feature comparisons, which of course favor the electronic control machines. But these tables have little to do with the underlying control type (mechanical vs electronic), they are simply listings of which features Speed Queen chose to implement in each. Many, probably most, of the features that are listed as "No" for mechanical and "Yes" for electronic, very well could be implemented with mechanical controls as well. Speed Queen just chose not to.


So basically, we learn nothing, other than that Speed Queen really wants you to choose the electronic controls!





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