Thread Number: 7994
Curbside find saves me from the GE
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Post# 153545   9/10/2006 at 14:07 (5,164 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)        

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Well, the KUDS-22 ate it when a glass got broken in the top rack, and all the little shardlets (new word) got into the pump and caused the motor to go nuts.

The result: I was back to using this...

(And no, it's not a cool kitchen or a great place for a dishwasher. It's sitting in the Banishing Place right now.)

Post# 153546 , Reply# 1   9/10/2006 at 14:08 (5,164 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)        
And although...

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...the kitties like it, I found it to be one of the loudest, most inefficient, obnoxious dishwashers I've ever had the dubious honor of using.

Post# 153547 , Reply# 2   9/10/2006 at 14:09 (5,164 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)        
Exsqueeze me?

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I agree with the top part. I have questions about the bottom part.

Post# 153548 , Reply# 3   9/10/2006 at 14:11 (5,164 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Oh no Nate. Is there hope of finding a new motor for the KA?

Post# 153549 , Reply# 4   9/10/2006 at 14:12 (5,164 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)        
The GE

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After an interminable wash cycle, a dry cycle that commanded attention because you couldn't turn the element off (ended up disconnecting it for our sanity's sake), four hours, and fifty-two water changes later (okay, it only seemed like it, but still...), you ended up with yiblets on your glasses in the top rack, and possibly clean dishes elsewhere in the machine (it was like a treasure hunt--can YOU find the clean dish?).

I am convinced that this machine had a dispenser of food particles that injected them into the wash water during the final rinse. I have determined that you could have put clean dishes in this dishwasher, and they still would have come out dirty.

Post# 153551 , Reply# 5   9/10/2006 at 14:15 (5,164 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)        
The solution

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It was not black and gorgeous when we found it (though almond is better than harvest gold), but it sure is now.

Gloss black, and brushed metal abounding...

Special thanks to Roger for mega mechanical coaching and a really neat way to re-form crushed aluminum trim :-)

Introducing the Design | Manufacturing Magic Chef!

It was requisite that we keep with the "metal chic" look of the kitchen for which the Superba set the tone, so this machine continues that tradition nicely.

Post# 153553 , Reply# 6   9/10/2006 at 14:15 (5,164 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Wash cycle phase was about 45 minutes long. It had 7 water changes. Disconnecting the Calrod just made cleaning worse lol. I'm wondering if the water solenoid was restricted by some sediment and dind't get proper full water fills. I really didn't have much trouble with mine, except for rice, but then again, it wass brand new in an apartment exactly 30 years ago this month.

Post# 153554 , Reply# 7   9/10/2006 at 14:18 (5,164 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Nate, nice looking. It uses as much, if not more water than the GE. As Greg puts it, D&Ms were water hogs. Does it have a full spray arm under the top rack. There were versions of this model I saw with only 1 wash level. Roger thanks for the coaching. It does look very nice. Surprised the tub hasn't rusted through, must not have been used much.

Post# 153555 , Reply# 8   9/10/2006 at 14:19 (5,164 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)        

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Magic Chef.

Check out the features that more GE-disillusioned and cranky housewives demand:

- NO MORE YIBLETS ADHERING TO THE TOP-RACK GLASSES because there is the patented Mofo-BlasterTM top-mounted, full-length, stainless-steel wash arm.

Crumbs and onion-bits begone!

I've never seen this spray-arm configuration on a D&M machine grandmother's Kenmore was a three-arm (big on the bottom, this machine's top arm in the middle, and a smaller constant-rinse on the top) configuration, but this is a lot of fun.

It's like owning a single wash-arm KitchenAid with the mother of all constant-rinses.

Only, this machine gets burned rice off stuff, which surprised me, because the Superba couldn't pull that off.

Post# 153556 , Reply# 9   9/10/2006 at 14:20 (5,164 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)        
The racks

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...will get replaced. Don't wretch just yet.

Post# 153557 , Reply# 10   9/10/2006 at 14:23 (5,164 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)        
Whee again!

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Magic Chef.

For when steel wool and obscenities just aren't enough.

- With the time-tested VelociMaticTM bottom wash-arm, even casserole dishes and small automobiles can be flipped-over and filled with water if you don't use the tines carefully.

- No spray tower. You bought the pot at Robinsons-May, but you forgot to bring your dishwasher to see if it would fit. Well, never fret again! You have full rack-loading flexibility with your new Magic Chef!*

*Okay, well, you have to load it like a single wash-arm KitchenAid or else nothing in the top rack gets touched, but it's really flexible ASIDE from that.

Post# 153558 , Reply# 11   9/10/2006 at 14:24 (5,164 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Wow, this was a very short-lived design from D&M. Yeah had great potential, but the bottom rack just didn't hold a lotta stuff. Believe me, I played with a two Caloric versions of this. They did clean pretty well though. I believe this style was around very early 80s for just a couple of years. CR really bashed it for the botom rack not having as much space as with the towerless arrangement. Wish they could have kept the spray arm under the top rack & done the full-size top arm. This was kinda like a reverse rack Maytag immitation.

Post# 153559 , Reply# 12   9/10/2006 at 14:26 (5,164 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)        
Whee three!

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Magic Chef.

- It's The Powerhouse, because it's a known fact that any appliance just looks cooler and works better when you give it a slogan.

- It's The Powerhouse, because it's about time your dishwasher switched from passive-aggressive to just-plain-furious.

Magic Chef. It's not taking crap from your dishes anymore.

Post# 153560 , Reply# 13   9/10/2006 at 14:26 (5,164 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Oh wow, this model didn't offer the 3-level wash. I forgot about that. Had a couple from my singles group in Houston that bought a new house in 1983 with this model, but from Gaffers & Sattler. The design without the tower would have driven me nuts, but then again, they pre-rinsed everything.

Post# 153561 , Reply# 14   9/10/2006 at 14:29 (5,164 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)        
The softer side of...

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Magic Chef.

- Flexibility. Power. All this, in an energy-efficient package that uses four ounces of water to clean and only costs $2.17 per year to operate.

It's why we call it "The Energy-Engineered Dishwasher."

Post# 153562 , Reply# 15   9/10/2006 at 14:35 (5,164 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)        

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Okay, enough kidding. The only thing that hoists this dishwasher above the GE (aside from pure sex-appeal) is that the dishes come out SPOTLESS, no food kibble is left scattered in the top rack, and even the divets in your coffee-mugs are filled only with absolutely crystal-clear water.

NO MORE YIBBLES. (I cannot overemphasize how much angst gritty glasses created in our household...)

It's also a LOT quieter and has a much more appealing sound when it's running. Plus, I remember it from growing up--let's be real; this is part practicality and part nostalgia :-)

Yes, Bob, it uses just as much water and electricity as the GE, if not more so, but the fact that it produces results and looks so good doing it makes it a winner in my book :-D

But you're absolutely correct, and yes, loading--though this machine holds a LOT--is very tricky and requires careful thought, or else havoc can be wreaked in the top rack (and let me tell you, if you make a mistake loading the bottom rack, it's not just a "little" dirty in the top rack afterward...)

The easiest way I've found to load it is to pull-out both racks, and look down through the top rack to the bottom rack. If anything is blocking significant space in the bottom rack, then avoid loading anything in the corresponding space up top.

The spray-tower config probably did loads better than this design, but the sheer novelty of this machine, with all its "I wanna be a Maytag" quirkiness makes it lots of fun.

Plus, it's pretty. :-)

That's very cool that you've gotten to use the other configs of this design. How fun! :-D



Post# 153564 , Reply# 16   9/10/2006 at 14:49 (5,164 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Yes it was fun, especially looking back on it, compared to what on marekt today. I wish I had taken that loading approach with loading KDS15, KDS16 dishwashers. Although, O would have been shot because that would have meant empty space in the top rack. I come from a background of ya don't run it until it has a Bob load in it lol. I had neighbors transferred to Austin the year before I aws transferred to Temple (this would be 1984). They bought a house with the Caloric. Drove me insane. She believed in prewashing everything.; And tilting dinner plates forward. THEN she'd use the longest wash cycle with all the water temp booster points (main wash & last rinse) everytime. It got used a lot, they always seemed to have company from Houston. It lasted until about 1992 or 1993. I could still hear the thang running when I was in the guest bedroom, over the garage, and the kitchen was complete opposite end & corner of house. Teh replacement was a Maytag. Wonder if that's still running. Haven't seen 'em in years.

Post# 153566 , Reply# 17   9/10/2006 at 14:52 (5,164 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)        
The GE and the road to recovery

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I'm wondering if the water solenoid was restricted by some sediment and dind't get proper full water fills.

It had a new water valve that was known to work :-) The GE did get its full fill of water; it just sucked. No excuses :-)

It was 30 years old, though, and probably had never had the sump cleaned from years of chicken bones and broken glasses, so I'm sure the pump performance suffered. I couldn't work-up the enthusiasm to tear it apart and clean it out, though, because A) it was ugly and B) the sump has about the structural integrity of Rice Krispies holding hands. (It's about to rust through completely.)

Nevertheless, the GE design--in more TOL machines--was probably proven, and the Power Shower would not have hurt with the top rack top-down coverage.

Disconnecting the Calrod just made cleaning worse lol.

I wouldn't be surprised. In our case, I saw no difference in the lack of cleaning performance between the time that the Calrod was on and when it was disconnected, but we have really hot water here anyhow.

The D&M was a work in progress. When first found, aside from being disgusting and every conceivable kick-panel and trim part being bent, dented, or broken (it seems people get confused by the kick-panels on these machines--they don't pop off, and don't come off via screws from the front--you have to get at their screws by opening the door, and a lot of people pull and pull at it out of frustration), it was noisy and leaked from the motor. (Obviously, not a good under-counter candidate.)

Turns out, someone had broken enough glass in this machine to make new sand for a beach. All around the tub seal was a sparkling sea of glass bits, crushed and recrushed over time, probably by the macerator. The spray arms had chunks of glass in them, and also little tabs of black plastic that solicited a hearty "what the f--- is this?" as the machine came apart.

Of course, those little black "tabs" were vanes of the drain impeller that had been blown off the impeller disc by a few sizeable (sturdy) chunks of glass. The now-wobbly impeller, Roger theorized, probably contributed to the decline of the porcelain-carbon seal for the motor.

The good news is that D&M parts are CHEAP (you can get an entire new mechanism--minus the spray arm and the motor--for about $50), and so I was able to get a seal kit that came with new impellers, O-ring, shims, new carbon seal, new porcelain seal, and a shim feeler. That fixed it beautifully, and made it run the way it should (minus the vibration and minor waterfall from the motor.)

Further cleaning, bending, and fixing yielded the results you see :-)

I was tickled by the parts bag for the seal kit, though. Since when did Electrolux claim Kenmore as one of their own brands? :-) It makes sense, but this was the first bag I'd seen that listed Kenmore right alongside Tappan, Kelvinator, and friends.

Post# 153569 , Reply# 18   9/10/2006 at 14:58 (5,164 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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I had the same black tabs show up in my 1980 Kenmore in about 1984--I started looking at Maytags, but soon found out I was buying a new house so, didn't bother. Yeah, Kenmore was flag ship of the D&M line, but there were so so so many brand names that D&M made machines for all at the same time.

Post# 153570 , Reply# 19   9/10/2006 at 15:04 (5,164 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)        

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*chuckle* I wonder what became of that Kenmore? :-)

I'd bet that really what breaks glass in this machine is the intensity of the water--these are big thumpers-and-bumpers and probably smack things around quite a bit. I've been very careful when loading wine glasses and the like.

The bottom only has cosmetic rust (something metal landed on top of the porcelain and discolored it), which is good. Roger mentioned that he had seen a lot of rusted-out ones too, and no, this machine design never seemed to have a lot of longevity associated with it.

However, my grandmother's D&M is still going strong today--though it does have a spot of rust at the bottom. I guess some machines never got the memo, and just refuse to die, like Greg mentioned about that WCI Kelvinator we had... :-)

Post# 153572 , Reply# 20   9/10/2006 at 15:13 (5,164 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Well, I don't know what happened to that Kenmore, but it had 5 years of use from me. I personally didn't have any glasses break in mine nor any dishes. But then again, my every day glasses are now 34 year old jelly glasses lol. I remember only one or two stemmed glasses breaking in the rotorack. Learned how to load them properly lol.

Post# 153582 , Reply# 21   9/10/2006 at 16:25 (5,164 days old) by goatfarmer (South Bend, home of Champions)        

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I will say one thing,the Magic Chef is much more asthetically pleasing.Who cares about washpower anyway?


Post# 153583 , Reply# 22   9/10/2006 at 16:25 (5,164 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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I vaguely remember Tomturbomatic saying something about rusting & D&M designs. I think he said the problem became more earnest once the energy saver dry option was put on these beasts, moisture left around, not baked of by that hot coil, and thus encouraging rust with the thin porcelain.

Post# 153590 , Reply# 23   9/10/2006 at 16:45 (5,164 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut)        
I couldn't agree more!

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We had one of those disgusting green GE dishwashers. IMHO this marked the beginning of the end of respect that my family had for GE. It was easily the LOUDEST dishwasher I've ever known, and even though the racking was based on a 12 year-old GE design, everything about that machine reeked "cheap". I remember how disappointed I was when it was delivered to realize how all of the tines on the racks arrived bent and out of alignment. I credit that very GE model with converting my parents, who, up to that point being heavily investing in GE stocks, were habitual "GE or nothing" customers, over to proud KitchenAid dishwasher owners. When our top-loading GE SU-400 needed its first and only repair, they were convinced into replacing it with a KDC-17A.

Even though that GE SU 400 with its wonderfully weird "salmon on pink" interior was 12 years older than that abominable "celery on avocado" GE front-loader it was more elegant, quieter, faster, more efficient and better made than anything GE has since produced. Although they have improved their dishwasher design in recent years, IMHO GE dishwashers from 1970-1990 sucked.

Post# 153600 , Reply# 24   9/10/2006 at 18:21 (5,164 days old) by westytoploader ()        

Nate, AWESOME dishwasher, congrats! My parents had a similar Magic Chef from 1985 in their old house, before I was born. Saw it in a few photos. Sorry to hear what happened to the KA but this is definitely a good replacement. I bet that lower spray arm makes a good wall of water!

I have a lot of memories with these machines as my grandmother and aunt had Kenmores from the 80's...I will never forget the distinctive sound they made, as well as the clinking glasses! That 3-level wash, with full-sized spray arms on the top, middle, and bottom, was a great feature...wish more machines had it!


Post# 153603 , Reply# 25   9/10/2006 at 18:51 (5,164 days old) by rogera608s (Tucson,AZ)        

Why does that look so familiar and stunning I might add. Just one thing-is that a Whirpool Design 2000 with spinning drain I see hiding around the corner in one of the photos? :-)

Post# 153620 , Reply# 26   9/10/2006 at 21:39 (5,164 days old) by cybrvanr ()        

What a cool Magic Chef DW. Look at all those holes in the lower spray arm. I bet that thing would take bark off a log if you put one in there! Can't beat that chrome on black styling either!

Post# 153628 , Reply# 27   9/10/2006 at 22:36 (5,164 days old) by peteski50 (New York)        

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Wow that GE was a real common model. I remember those models were placed in so many apartments in the early to mid seventies. I remember for a BOL model they werent bad cleaners but they were so damm noisey. I have cousions that had one and we all used to leave the kitchen when it ran. It is a good catch.

Post# 153630 , Reply# 28   9/10/2006 at 23:15 (5,164 days old) by peteski50 (New York)        
Magic Chef or Tragic Chef

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I thought it was sad D&M arranged this style dishwasher. Their origional design had a full size arm under the upper rack. It seems after Sears stopped producing the roto rack design about 1976 they got the better D&M design with the full arm under the upper rack and the more expensive models had 3 arms with a smaller one at top. I don't understand why so many other D&M models went to a tower or just a top and bottom like this one. To me that one at the top is not to usefull. It seems to drop lower not allowing room for taller glasses. And also if you put large items on the bottom it will block the top glasses and cups from getting clean. This was definatly a big step backward for D&M especally when they had alredy used the sears design. I cant also understand why a company would want to go from not having a tower like most of these models had to adding a tower. Were they trying to copy Maytag?

Post# 153632 , Reply# 29   9/10/2006 at 23:31 (5,164 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)        

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Thanks, everyone! :-P

Austin--Thanks!! Yes, the dishwasher rocks IF you load it properly. It is not very forgiving in that respect, but gosh it's purdy :-D

Ken--First off, I LOVE your pictures--you do those so beautifully! Yes, I agree that the impeller model you show was a great machine (I let one of those get away when I was 11). I've owned a Triton XL--and my friends own a Profile of a similar design--and the new GE dishwashers are EXCELLENT cleaners, and extremely quiet.

Kenny--I agree :-P Sometimes form follows function at a great distance :-)

Steven--You betcha! It can flip pots over under certain circumstances. Of course, I shouldn't be putting pots down their anyhow, right? Hmmm...

Bob--No, you're absolutely right. Rusting due to the ever-present SuperPuddle at the bottom of these machines is usually the rule and not the exception. I'm just lucky with this one.

Roger--You know, you may be right... ;-)

Post# 153633 , Reply# 30   9/10/2006 at 23:32 (5,164 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)        
The design that really went beyond 2000...

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I wonder if Whirlpool knew that this would be the way of things back then, and in an immensely successful way...

Post# 153634 , Reply# 31   9/10/2006 at 23:39 (5,164 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)        
A cute little 24-incher

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Roger has the Kenmore mate to this design (don't you, Roger?? ;-) Do I detect a new, upcoming thread?). This machine was so full of lime that Roger and I had to attack it with razorblades and CLR galor. The bleach and fabric softener dispensers were full of powder detergent (READ, people), and all I can figure is that the prior owners had really itchy clothes, because their machine probably never saw a freshwater rinse in its life. Even the bottom holes on the basket were plugged.

The bleach dispenser tube had to be roto-rooted out because it was full of congealed powdered detergent, and couldn't dispense into the tub. (What's unusual on this design is that the bleach tube goes all the way to the bottom of the outer tub, not down just four or five inches like in the newer WP/KM machines.)

The centerpost was rusted in a spot (SURPRISE!!), and the tub spanner nut was absolutely fused to the drive block. It had to be drilled out, and then over two evenings of screaming and obscenities, the tub finally let loose when we figured out how to hit the drive block down with a hammer while holding the inner tub up.

We pitched the Tragic LintTM filter in the trash. It had ballooned to about an inch thick with lime and lint, and reeked of mildew. Barf.

So, one new drive block and spanner nut (and probably sixteen hours of combined labor) later, here she is. It's a GREAT machine that holds a lot and does everything quietly and beautifully, and has a spinning drain to boot! (hence the clothesguard at the top of the tub):

Post# 153636 , Reply# 32   9/11/2006 at 00:10 (5,164 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Peter, I know and understand you maligning this D&M design. The next model up did have the tower. As I have said to you before, all this was was pure and unadulterated marketing and product positioning. Sears ALWAYS had the premium features for their D&M dishwashers compared to the other brands that put their label on D&Ms. And from what my experience has told me, a lotta times included the motor. Gaffers & Sattler at one time did off a rotorack series too. Friends of my mom moved from a house with a KDC16 to a G&S with roto rack. She said the difference was like night & day, the G&S cleaned circles around the KA.

Post# 153637 , Reply# 33   9/11/2006 at 00:19 (5,164 days old) by peteski50 (New York)        
D&M Design

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I understand the the next model up did have a tower. I still feel it was major steps downward for the D&M design especially when you already started with something good. I think only Sears and Modern Maid kept the same design after the fact. The Modern Maid made the model with the optional range top above the dishwasher. I am sorry they went out of business I did like those top cabinet ovens.

Post# 153664 , Reply# 34   9/11/2006 at 08:47 (5,163 days old) by tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Yibblets result from the GE not pumping out the last quart of water in the sump (below the tub). When the drain valve opened, there was a rush of water that was supposed to carry the crap with it, but that was the theory, not the practice because there was so much clearance between the pump impeller and the housing. There were some models from recent years that had a second pump for drain only. It was used twice in the cycle, after wash and maybe before the last rinse, to empty the sump through a little rubber hose connection, like sucking through a straw. John said that they performed better.

As part of the transition from the Roto Rack, I saw one of the saddest, cheapest Kenmore top load portable dishwashers at the Sears near our old house. It had the wash arm under the standard lower rack, but the top rack was split through the middle like in Robert's D&M Frigidaire portable from about 1960 to allow loading the lower rack and the nozzle that sprayed the Roto Rack stuck out from the back wall of the tub, but no rack, nothing was over it. It just sprayed all over, perhaps keeping grit from settling in the bottoms of glasses and mugs. You just know that model was the cheap one advertised to get people in the store. After they were shown that one, they were led to the better machines to see what made them better. "And you did want to take out a service policy on that dishwasher today, right?" (Never mind that it was covered for a year by the warranty).

Post# 153665 , Reply# 35   9/11/2006 at 08:50 (5,163 days old) by gmmcnair (Portland, OR)        
You will get great service out of it...

gmmcnair's profile picture mother has my old Kenmore from 1988, which is a similar design, and I have the 18-inch Kenmore space-saver portable from 2002. The 2002 model has a plastic spray arm and wash tower, but the motor, and cycles sound the same as the old design, only a bit quieter. Too bad about the wash arm; it really did make loading things easier. However, both machines are still going strong with daily use and no repairs.

I agree they wash much better than the GE's of that era; had a couple of them in apartments, and I think they dishes came out dirtier than when they went into the machines. The BOL Hotpoints were even worse....guaranteed dirty dishes.

Post# 153667 , Reply# 36   9/11/2006 at 09:04 (5,163 days old) by westyslantfront ()        

Hi Nate. Enjoy the Magic Chef dishwasher. Good to see a dishwasher that really gets the job done.

I also like your Design 2000 with it's immediate spin and no neutral drain.


Post# 153708 , Reply# 37   9/11/2006 at 12:51 (5,163 days old) by peteski50 (New York)        

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Hi Nate,
Best wishes on all the finds. I really like the Whirlpool 2000.

Post# 153711 , Reply# 38   9/11/2006 at 13:00 (5,163 days old) by jasonl ()        

GASP! A D&M without a Rotorack? Was that only a Kenmore thing?

Is that the first generation Design2000's that did a spin/drain?

Post# 153726 , Reply# 39   9/11/2006 at 14:24 (5,163 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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That's an early direct-drive model, being as they dropped the Design 2000 designation after it went full-line ... but it isn't the very first issue. The 1st generation didn't have a clothes guard ring.

Post# 153753 , Reply# 40   9/11/2006 at 16:36 (5,163 days old) by retroguy ()        
Gold GE

I too had the GE for a while. Looked exactly like yours. Cleaned the same too. As if someone dumped a bucket of sand in with each load. It was an old machine, and though it cleaned badly, and was horribly loud, I have to say that it indeed still worked when I got rid of it. Rust killed it. I also had a Kenmore almost identical to the Magic Chef. Now that was a nice dishwasher. It got the job done, and it cleaned well. It was a bit loud (though nowhere near as obnoxious at being loud as the GE was) but it cleaned well enough that I didnt mind. Unfortunately it died recently. It developed a leak so small it was unnoticeable, even with the bottom cover off. And where did the water go, if not onto the floor? Yep, into the motor. Probably 2 or 3 drops per use. Not much, but enough to kill the motor. (I wonder how long that was going on?) Well...I havent gotten rid of the Kenmore yet, it's in storage. The GE was at the curb the second I had yanked it out of the cabinetry. I have a new GE quiet you can barely hear it run. It cleans better than anything I've used before, but I miss my older machine. =)

Post# 153772 , Reply# 41   9/11/2006 at 17:26 (5,163 days old) by nurdlinger (Tucson AZ)        
I think those GE models...

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were used extensively by contractors here in Tucson. I had one in my circa-1978 house. At about age 10-15 it began leaking copiously whenever it was used. Being younger, I took it apart and found the seal which had failed. Appliance parts dealer swore it was not replaceable and I had to buy an entire motor assembly with which to fix it. In the early 2Ks, the scenario repeated itself. Being older then and a little better off financially, I had it replaced by a KitchenAid (don't remember model just now, has stainless interior and taller tub) Once I heard the KA in operation I could not believe I had tolerated the GE loudness for all that time.

Post# 153801 , Reply# 42   9/11/2006 at 18:46 (5,163 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        

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NO MORE YIBBLES. (I cannot overemphasize how much angst gritty glasses created in our household...)

HA! my freiking 4 y.o. SS interior KA (alas by WP not Hobart) Does the same thing. Water conservation my @$$.

I wonder why my newer GE (which is also a water-hog BTW) does not leave yibbles. I don't think the engineering changed substatially from yours to mine. Althogth I HAVE heard a vicious rumor that GE has now dumbed-down their machines as well *SOB*.

Enjoy your (new to you)Tragic Chef DW.
How can you beat W-R-R-W-R-R dry?

Post# 153803 , Reply# 43   9/11/2006 at 18:56 (5,163 days old) by rogera608s (Tucson,AZ)        

Nate- I think I did see a little 24" Kenmore DD somewhere around here-oh wait-it is behind the Kitchenaid Superba tl. I suppose this means pictures must be posted. :-)

Post# 153827 , Reply# 44   9/11/2006 at 20:58 (5,163 days old) by tlee618 ()        

Hey Roger, you have some "splain to do boy" LOL Terry

Post# 153844 , Reply# 45   9/11/2006 at 22:50 (5,163 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)        

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Roger - LOL!!! You know, that KitchenAid is such a behemoth that I could see where a little 24-inch Kenmore could hide behind it :-P

Terry - Wait until you see the 'splaining with pictures :-P

Tom Z. - I absolutely agree...the noise of the GE is almost amazing compared to anything else, especially the whisper-quiet of the reversing-motor KitchenAids. I still miss the soft *swish...swish* of my Superba. And yes, I think they were contractor-specials. They sure aren't hard to find in the thrift stores here...

Steve - LOL I love the Tragic Chef :-P. Does your GE have the microfilter screen, or does it have the plain-ol' sump? I'm not sure why yours would be yibble-less, unless it was probably better cared-for than this one. (Not so much debris in the sump, perhaps.) And yes, I love that cycle simplicity, especially with the long wash and quickie rinses. :-)

Douglas - Yay, keep the Kenmore! Motors can be found off other machines (these D&M machines aren't too uncommon here...e-mail me and let me know if you'd like me to snag a motor for you the next time I see one). I bet your carbon-porcelain seal failed like mine did...fortunately, the slinger ring on my motor prevented the water from going into the motor proper, but instead it dribbled off the side, guided there by the plate on top of the motor itself.

When you do get a new motor, get the pump-seal kit (WCI/Electrolux part # 808042, which replaces 807074, and Sears' 808969...this kit is for pre-1986 machines), to make sure that the new motor is kept safe. It's a breeze to install, and is only $24 at last check.

Tom Turbomatic - Wow, that is sad! A Roto-Rack with a functionless nozzle??

Mike and Peter - Thanks! :-D We'll have to see how it bears-out over time...

Today's festivities with the Magic Chef included the game of 'Where did the GladWare go?', which involves light items in the top rack ending up in places where you did not initially put them.

Though never upside-down and full of water, occasionally I've found lids and bottoms completely swapping positions. I almost wonder if the dishes try to find their own favorite places in the top rack. It's quite amusing.

Post# 154076 , Reply# 46   9/13/2006 at 00:32 (5,162 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        

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Nate, I have seen these models of D&M with the castrated/missing power-tower before and never understood why they bothered. I had a Roper of similar vintage in my house when we bought it with the tower and a smaller, plastic arm at the top. It was a nasty water-piggy but it did clean well and reasonably quiet. It was the rapid-advance model with the analog flipping-number time countdown on the panel.

I also remember the BOL Sears D&M machines with the spray nozzle under the upper rack in the front-load models. It was nothing more than a short tube with slits for water to spray the underside of the rack. I can't imagine it did much good at washing, just kept the yibbles from reattaching as Tom said. We had a roto-rack dishwasher from about 1972-73 that performed OK but the lower wash-arm would stop turning now and then which only reinforced the pre-rinsing requirement...

Here is the Roto-Rack D&M I have now:

Post# 154077 , Reply# 47   9/13/2006 at 00:33 (5,162 days old) by gansky1 (Omaha, The Home of the TV Dinner!)        
Ebay picture -

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Brand new, never even unpacked!

Post# 154089 , Reply# 48   9/13/2006 at 02:13 (5,162 days old) by peteski50 (New York)        

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Wow Greg this is a real Gem and loaded so nicely too. Are you going to keep it as a portable or build it in?
Best Wishes

Post# 154212 , Reply# 49   9/13/2006 at 19:25 (5,161 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        

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~Does your GE have the microfilter screen, or does it have the plain-ol' sump

Microfilter? WHAT microfilter? Talk to me, boy. Teach me a thing or two.

My GE is about 4 years of age, cutout "ring" for tower.

TRITON with electronic controls. Now if my Greek serves me correctly (hint: language skills, not an ethnic houseboy!) neither an impressive name, nor an impressive concept.


Yes,it has three wash levels (two spray arms + one tower)
or perhaps three filters.

So to WHAT does the "TRITON refer?

Is this thingy in the back the microfilter? (See pic). Does it do anything? I was under the impression that the machine also sucked in water for recirculation from undneath the retancular sump (covered with course plastic raised mesh). If this were the case the filter would be pointless. if the yiblets could bypass it.

Someone, set me straight............

Post# 154213 , Reply# 50   9/13/2006 at 19:26 (5,161 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        

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BTW, can I get an offical say on Bob-load status?

Post# 154215 , Reply# 51   9/13/2006 at 19:29 (5,161 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        

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Have mercy on my poor soul, I only use this one once or twice a cramming it more full will take more practice.


Bought it for $75 new, unused. Scratch-and-Dent and full of dust at the Homo Depot. Beat that!

Post# 154217 , Reply# 52   9/13/2006 at 19:32 (5,161 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        

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First one who says, "Nice rack" gets a SMACK! LOL

Post# 154226 , Reply# 53   9/13/2006 at 19:55 (5,161 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Steve, my approach would be totally different with that load.

Post# 154228 , Reply# 54   9/13/2006 at 20:00 (5,161 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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Triton is a Greek god of the sea, son of Poseidon.

Thus .... water.

Oh my, you don't know that? ;-)


Post# 154234 , Reply# 55   9/13/2006 at 20:37 (5,161 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        

toggleswitch's profile picture

Bob: I guess no seal of approval :-(

Glenn: Live and learn. Hated mythology. Pure memorization.

Thanks for the tip!

Post# 154278 , Reply# 56   9/13/2006 at 22:02 (5,161 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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A partial seal.

Post# 154303 , Reply# 57   9/13/2006 at 22:57 (5,161 days old) by peteski50 (New York)        
GE Triton

peteski50's profile picture
Nice loaded rack (I want to see you try to smack me!) you will go spinning. Lol - My GE tall tub has a simular bottom SS Microfilter. It is a great cleaner. But the newer models dont have a SS miicrofilter it's plastic. My aunt just got a simular Profile model I thought was like mine. Also on the very newer models the sensors are different. Things are just being built cheaper.
Best Wishes

Post# 154338 , Reply# 58   9/14/2006 at 06:55 (5,160 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY)        

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Post# 154794 , Reply# 59   9/15/2006 at 21:05 (5,159 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)        

roto204's profile picture
That is a nice rack, Steve :-D And yes, that is the filter portion to which I was referring. I do believe the majority of recirculation happens under the sump cover (can someone else outline the particulars?), and the filter is more passive...but due to some sort of better aspect of the design (maybe a much better spray tower?), these machines wash way better.

Greg, I *LOVE* that Roto-Rack!! That is absolutely lovely, with an owner's manual picture-perfect load! :-D

Bob, I won't even show you a pic of the Magic Chef loaded. If you saw how I had to load it to get the top rack clean, you'd see how only the top rack ever achieves Bob-LoadTM status. The bottom rack is almost invariably a wasteland, unless I happen to have had service for twelve out that evening, with the full compliment of perfectly vertical plates :-)

Post# 154795 , Reply# 60   9/15/2006 at 21:08 (5,159 days old) by roto204 (Tucson, AZ)        

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Greg, I love that you mentioned the Roper with the flipping countdown timer. They had a machine like that in Phoenix--it was a Chambers-brand D&M, though. I thought it would be really cool, but the probability of the clock still working was probably nil.

Next to it was one of the GM-Frigidaire dishwashers with the tiny whirligig spray-arm on the tip of the main wash arm. :-D

Post# 154816 , Reply# 61   9/15/2006 at 22:52 (5,159 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
Nate, because of loading challenges you face, you'd get special Bob load certification no matter what. You should have picked up that Frigidaire and see if yo0u could resurrect it. There were the only truelly great Frigidaire cleaners (they finally got it right) and the capacity could be awesome.

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