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Thread Number: 79948
/ Tag: Ranges, Stoves, Ovens
Convection element |
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Post# 1038640 7/18/2019 at 14:51 (1,737 days old) by chetlaham  (United States) |
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Post# 1038646 , Reply# 1 7/18/2019 at 16:00 (1,737 days old) by jamiel (Detroit, Michigan and Palm Springs, CA) |
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Post# 1038659 , Reply# 2 7/18/2019 at 17:26 (1,737 days old) by chetlaham (United States) |
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Post# 1038661 , Reply# 3 7/18/2019 at 17:47 (1,737 days old) by Vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield, East Midlands, UK) |
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This is a common arrangement for fan ovens, even when they have top and or bottom elements available to option. A fan without heater is known here as fan assisted and is not a good as with a heater. More upmarket European oven have choice of various combinations of fan with heater and top/bottom heat. Sadly British ovens no longer have the elements on the sides, that died out about 25 years ago
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Post# 1038668 , Reply# 5 7/18/2019 at 18:46 (1,737 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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"True" convection ovens generally have heating element surrounding blower fan. This is to heat the forced air as is blown into oven cavivty, as opposed to merely circulating air heated from elements in top, bottom or elsewhere.
Many ovens (toaster, microwave, counter top, etc..) call themselves "convection". But often there is just a fan which circulates air inside the chamber. Heat comes from the main "baking" and or "broiling" elements at top, bottom or sides of oven. | ||
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Post# 1038673 , Reply# 6 7/18/2019 at 20:22 (1,737 days old) by chetlaham (United States) |
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| Post# 1038674 , Reply# 7 7/18/2019 at 20:24 (1,737 days old) by twintubdexter (Palm Springs) | ||
 The KitchenAid oven I installed because of perpetual problems I had with the Jennair that came with the house has hidden elements in the bottom and sides, an exposed (of course) broiler element and another element in the fan housing. Frankly I don't see a lot of difference in the convection baking (the Jennair was fan-assisted) but then in 3 years I've used the top oven twice and the bottom one is still a virgin. I do very little big-oven baking and most of what I prepare comes out of a box that either says Stoffer's or Swanson.
Another solo (with the help of my hydraulic lift table) self-installation but still not good for anyone's back. I got down on the floor and pushed it in with my feet.
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Post# 1038680 , Reply# 8 7/18/2019 at 22:24 (1,737 days old) by chetlaham (United States) |
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Post# 1038683 , Reply# 9 7/18/2019 at 23:19 (1,737 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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 My GE Profile has true-convection with an element surrounding the fan ... hidden bake element (beneath the oven floor), and exposed boil element. I use multi-rack (true) convection mode for everything except brownies and "delicate" items such as cheesecake. It also has single-rack convection mode which runs the fan with the hidden bake element (and the boil element at reduced power). | ||
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Post# 1038686 , Reply# 10 7/19/2019 at 01:29 (1,737 days old) by MattL (Flushing, MI) |
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My Electrolux has 3 elements. During preheat the display indicates which is in use. Cycles bottom, top, convection as it heats. | ||
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Post# 1038693 , Reply# 12 7/19/2019 at 06:46 (1,736 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN) |
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| Post# 1038703 , Reply# 13 7/19/2019 at 10:34 (1,736 days old) by Maytagbear (N.E. Ohio) | ||
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I just want one of those very slick Neff ovens that are on The Great British Baking Show! If they are good enough for Mary and Paul......I wish Neff was available here in the States. Lawrence/Maytagbear | ||
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Post# 1038704 , Reply# 14 7/19/2019 at 11:01 (1,736 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) |
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Post# 1038732 , Reply# 15 7/19/2019 at 16:24 (1,736 days old) by chetlaham (United States) |
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Post# 1038744 , Reply# 16 7/19/2019 at 17:33 (1,736 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK) |
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I can vouch for the NEFF oven 
Its one of the easiest and quite a quick heating oven even though it just plugs into the wall socket with a 13amp supply no hard wiring required. The door going underneath when opened is a brilliant idea it makes getting things out when hot a lot less bother.
It also has settings like slow cook and self clean that work well the slow cook is just the bottom element that heats the cavity to 80c I have done pot roast beef and whole gammon hams overnight in it and they are melt in the mouth and no slow cooker to clean ..... There are also bread proving settings and bread cooking ones I have yet to try. Austin | ||
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Post# 1038751 , Reply# 17 7/19/2019 at 18:17 (1,736 days old) by chetlaham (United States) |
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Post# 1038830 , Reply# 18 7/20/2019 at 10:52 (1,735 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany)) |
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That should be a standard 2000 odd watts element. For years the Slide&Hide door was a huge tradeoff vs true high temp self clean as they couldn't get a tight enough seal. | ||
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Post# 1038834 , Reply# 19 7/20/2019 at 12:12 (1,735 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK) |
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@henene4/Chetlaham | ||
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Post# 1038917 , Reply# 21 7/21/2019 at 08:02 (1,734 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany)) |
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Oh, yeah, and... Franke, who have a 2 level heater for their convection for some reason... | ||
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Post# 1039656 , Reply# 22 7/28/2019 at 06:24 (1,727 days old) by chetlaham (United States) |
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Post# 1039660 , Reply# 23 7/28/2019 at 06:37 (1,727 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Range in post #22 | ||
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Post# 1039667 , Reply# 24 7/28/2019 at 08:12 (1,727 days old) by chetlaham (United States) |
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Post# 1039668 , Reply# 25 7/28/2019 at 08:13 (1,727 days old) by chetlaham (United States) |
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Post# 1039676 , Reply# 26 7/28/2019 at 10:26 (1,727 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Post# 1039677 , Reply# 27 7/28/2019 at 10:35 (1,727 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Here is an enlarged picture of the control panel. Belling is a British brand. IIRC the grill is in the top oven. The bottom oven is a fan oven.
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Post# 1039682 , Reply# 28 7/28/2019 at 11:28 (1,727 days old) by chetlaham (United States) |
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Post# 1039685 , Reply# 29 7/28/2019 at 11:35 (1,727 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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??? | ||
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Post# 1039690 , Reply# 30 7/28/2019 at 12:08 (1,727 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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BTW, this is a cooktop with sensors in the centre of the front burners. The front burners are thermostatically controlled.
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Post# 1039692 , Reply# 31 7/28/2019 at 12:18 (1,727 days old) by chetlaham (United States) |
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Post# 1039694 , Reply# 32 7/28/2019 at 12:23 (1,727 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Post# 1039696 , Reply# 33 7/28/2019 at 12:54 (1,727 days old) by chetlaham (United States) |
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Post# 1039697 , Reply# 34 7/28/2019 at 13:03 (1,727 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Post# 1039703 , Reply# 35 7/28/2019 at 14:13 (1,727 days old) by chetlaham (United States) |
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Post# 1039754 , Reply# 36 7/28/2019 at 20:00 (1,727 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Range in post #22 ALL four top burners have thermostats built into the surface elements, ALL cast-iron elements like this have two elements and a thermostat that cycles one element off to keep the surface temperature around a maximum of 850F when using the element on high heat.
The only CI elements that do not have this built-in thermostat are ones that have an exposed thermostat that is spring loaded and contacts the bottom of the cooking vessel.
Thermostats are a very necessary part of any well performing and safe range.
John L. | ||
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Post# 1039767 , Reply# 37 7/28/2019 at 21:09 (1,727 days old) by chetlaham (United States) |
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"Thermostats are a very necessary part of any well performing and safe range."
Well, that is contradicted by the millions of Calrod units that have zero thermostatic control with the infinite switch set to high virtually eliminating any cycling. Yes I know UL just recently required that Calrods have a T-stat, but that is from careless inviduals who IMO should not be cooking to begin with. Anytime your oil or fat smokes you are way off, and ingesting something that is toxic if you ask me. | ||
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Post# 1039784 , Reply# 38 7/29/2019 at 01:34 (1,727 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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These burners don't cycle on and off and they have only one element. The knobs of these burnes most of the time have 7 positions: . 1 . 2 . 3 and 0. There is no safety feature, no automatic shut off when temperatures get too high. Here is a new Smeg cooktop (or hob as it is called in British English).
www.vandenborre.be/elektr... Here is a translation of a part of the product sheet:
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Post# 1039801 , Reply# 39 7/29/2019 at 07:03 (1,726 days old) by chetlaham (United States) |
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Post# 1039802 , Reply# 40 7/29/2019 at 07:03 (1,726 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Reply #37 Hi Louis, I say they do have over heat protection thermostats in each element.
Glass top cooking elements also all have thermostats built into the elements to keep maximum glass surface temps around 1000 F.
These built-in thermostats in CI elements are a major reason why Europe used so many CI elements as they are safer and this is required in much if not all of Europe.
John L. | ||
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Post# 1039803 , Reply# 41 7/29/2019 at 07:04 (1,726 days old) by chetlaham (United States) |
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Post# 1039804 , Reply# 42 7/29/2019 at 07:10 (1,726 days old) by chetlaham (United States) |
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Curve ball
Here is a 1,100 watt element that does no go through the T stat :P :)
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Post# 1039811 , Reply# 43 7/29/2019 at 07:53 (1,726 days old) by mrboilwash (Munich,Germany) |
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According to the link only the fast heating CIs with the red dot have overheat protection.
CLICK HERE TO GO TO mrboilwash's LINK | ||
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Post# 1039815 , Reply# 44 7/29/2019 at 08:27 (1,726 days old) by chetlaham (United States) |
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Your link
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Post# 1039816 , Reply# 45 7/29/2019 at 08:28 (1,726 days old) by chetlaham (United States) |
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Post# 1039817 , Reply# 46 7/29/2019 at 08:35 (1,726 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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John,
According to the link mrboilwash posted, only the burners with the red dots have overheat protection. But that has not always the case AFAIK. Older ones had a bit of a different design I think. BTW look at the Smeg cooktop, according to the specifications it doesn't have overheating protection at all. | ||
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Post# 1039820 , Reply# 47 7/29/2019 at 08:56 (1,726 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Post# 1039846 , Reply# 48 7/29/2019 at 11:27 (1,726 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Thermal Limiters On CI Sealed Elements
I am not going to get into pissing contest but to not have a TL the element would have to be very low wattage probably less than 600 watts.
Everyone I have ever seen sold here in the US has one built-in, and I find it hard to believe that our safety standards are that much tougher here. It is easy to confirm the presence of these BILs, just power up the element on the highest heat and take a amp draw reading and in 10 to 20 minutes you will see the amp draw drop to approximately 1/2. These limiters are built-in to the element assembly and are not serviceable and often do not even show up on wiring diagrams, but they have to be there to prevent damage to the range top or the element itself. John L. | ||
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Post# 1039849 , Reply# 49 7/29/2019 at 12:25 (1,726 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Not interested in a pissing contest, but it is definitely in the German text in the link. And that is mainly based on German appliances, back then there were a lot of national companies, not working to certain standards. The high power burners mentioned in the German thread were introduced here in the mid sixties, at the same time "sensi-temp" burners were introduced, something you had much earlier.
The European market was quite different back then. In the past we established that a small country like the Netherlands (just over 10 million people) had many appliance manufacturers (I forgot how many washing machine factories there were in the mid 50's, but it might have been something like 70 or so) Just compare it to NYC having 60 washing machine factories. Safety standards were probably not as good as in the USA back then. The European Union has done a lot in that matter. Every country had it's own manufacturers and also had their own safety standards (which weren't that good). Even until today there are some Dutch manufacturers that still only make products for the Dutch market. | ||
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Post# 1039901 , Reply# 50 7/29/2019 at 19:36 (1,726 days old) by chetlaham (United States) |
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Post# 1039944 , Reply# 51 7/30/2019 at 03:11 (1,726 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Post# 1039960 , Reply# 52 7/30/2019 at 06:36 (1,725 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Interesting Stove Designs Reply #49 Yes indeed Louis, the number of interesting designs that were out there years ago would fill a book.
My first real experiences with Solid Cast Iron elements were in the 80s when these European elements made a brief splash here so all my comments only apply to the 80s on.
Because all the CIEs sold in the US were temperature limited they could mount them directly in porcelain or even tempered glass cook-tops without fear of damage or breakage.
John L. | ||
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Post# 1039971 , Reply# 53 7/30/2019 at 08:20 (1,725 days old) by chetlaham (United States) |
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Whirlpool-
My mistake. Bad reference to post #42.
Whirlpool has several flat cooktops and ranges where the 1,100 watt element does not go through the limiting thermostat. I was wondering why that is. But hey, thanks for the inspiration Whirlpool ;) | ||
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Post# 1039972 , Reply# 54 7/30/2019 at 08:25 (1,725 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Post# 1039974 , Reply# 55 7/30/2019 at 08:31 (1,725 days old) by chetlaham (United States) |
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Post# 1039975 , Reply# 56 7/30/2019 at 08:32 (1,725 days old) by chetlaham (United States) |
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| Post# 1039992 , Reply# 57 7/30/2019 at 09:58 (1,725 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c ) | ||
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All this stuff! Is too complicated I will keep my 59 Westinghouse I can bake on any rack, load the oven full and still have even browning , No convection needed I don't NEED new technology to be able to cook. | ||
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Post# 1039993 , Reply# 58 7/30/2019 at 10:03 (1,725 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Let Me Repeat | ||
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Post# 1040001 , Reply# 59 7/30/2019 at 10:47 (1,725 days old) by chetlaham (United States) |
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Post# 1040002 , Reply# 60 7/30/2019 at 10:50 (1,725 days old) by chetlaham (United States) |
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