Thread Number: 80045  /  Tag: Ranges, Stoves, Ovens
Dual Coil Burner
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Post# 1039720   7/28/2019 at 16:57 (1,704 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

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Can anyone tell me more about these? Until when were they used? Why were they chosen over an infinite knob? And how many watts was each coil?


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Post# 1039724 , Reply# 1   7/28/2019 at 17:29 (1,704 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

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Post# 1039842 , Reply# 2   7/29/2019 at 10:43 (1,704 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

If these are news to you, you know absolutely nothing about the history of electric ranges. Yes siree, you are my candidate to design electric cooking appliances.


Post# 1039843 , Reply# 3   7/29/2019 at 10:54 (1,704 days old) by turquoisedude (.)        

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This style of range element was an early version of multiple-heat surface units. The very early stove-top elements offered a high, medium, and low setting but with a dual-coil unit and a multi-contact control, it was possible to acheive combinations such as: both coils on 240v power, inner coil on 240v power, outer coil on 240v power, both coils on 120v power, etc. Range control dials would allow 5 or 7 selections usually (labelled High, Medium High, Medium, Medium Low, Low, Very Low, Simmer for example). Unlike the later 'infinite heat' models there was no thermostatic control to the current flowing to the surface elements - current was being applied constantly to some combination of the coils.

I grew up with 5-Heat Frigidaire and GE range-top controls - I have a shamelessly intimate relationship with them... LOL

The dual-coil surface units lasted well into the 60s - GE kept 5-heat pusbutton switches at least into the late 60s.


Post# 1039894 , Reply# 4   7/29/2019 at 18:45 (1,703 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

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Tom, I care not if you think I'm a candidate or not. As I said, you know nothing about me. I'm asking because I'm genuinely curious why these were chosen over infinite switches. I'd rather learn the history then not learn anything at all.

Post# 1039918 , Reply# 5   7/29/2019 at 22:19 (1,703 days old) by earthling177 (Boston, MA)        

You ask questions in such a way that it's difficult for most people to know if you are being naive, or sarcastic, or trolling etc.

Let's start with "ignorance is not a sin, and it's easy to fix".

On the other hand, ignorant people often ask questions in a different way, that doesn't sound confrontational or defiant.

What often prevents people from responding is the impression that we have that some people think that engineering, history and technology, among other things, are completely disconnected from each other or, if they are weakly connected, the connections are unimportant.

Quite the contrary, what technology and engineering *can* offer is more often than not very strongly connected and can't be pried away from each other, and knowing what happened when and why (History) is very important.

So, to get to the point, burners with multiple (2 or more) resistors which were controlled by switches that would turn one or more in different combinations were not exactly "chosen" over infinite switches any more than open coil nested in a ceramic disk were "chosen" over Calrod or cast-iron burners.

Things like that can only be "chosen" once they get invented, perfected and ready to be mass manufactured, and even then, now you face a market that is used to another way of doing things, and there might be a ton of clients that might not be so eager to switch and learn new habits.

Even when the change is genuine improvement.

When "sealed" coil elements (Calrod, Corox etc) showed up, people who could afford them and recognized them as a big improvement, still needed to learn new skills. Look at old user guides, and they were filled with suggestions on how to control the heat for elements which had a very large inertia to temperature changes, and Calrod style cooking was much simpler than the original elements.

Sooner or later, Calrod-style elements became inexpensive enough and attractive enough for people to demand them instead of open coils which could shock the user or cast-iron burners that took longer to warm up and cool down.

Infinite switches came much later. In theory, the idea was simple, and there *were* some switches like that used in laboratory situations, where the clients *needed* stuff like that and could find someone to fund switches that cost more than 20 bucks per switch, and even then, they were not reliable enough to be used in heavy duty situations by people who did not read the user guides nor would be careful, they were used in special situations only.

Eventually, when it became feasible to produce infinite switches in mass quantities and inexpensively, they became an option, and, even then, there were people who were used to the 5 or 7 position switches that did not jump to adopt the new style.

In any case, the answer to you question(s) is that, historically, infinite switches and one-resistor burners came into the scenery rather late, cost more to produce until they got perfected, and then they had to deal with a market that was used to another system.


Post# 1039947 , Reply# 6   7/30/2019 at 03:32 (1,703 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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The Martha Washington electric cooktop in our house built in early 1964 had infinite burner controls.  I didn't use a fixed-heat type until moving into an apartment in 1985 that had a 1960s or late 1950s pushbutton GE range.


Post# 1039955 , Reply# 7   7/30/2019 at 06:12 (1,703 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

The earliest infinite heat switches were run by a clock work mechanism. Thermador had 4 switches mounted around a clock mechanism to provide heat all of the time on high and varying diminishing periods of heat as the switch was turned down because the clock mechanism provided shorter periods of contacts that completed the circuit. Two tube surface units were much easier to control and make because the controls, as mentioned earlier, only had to choose between various possibilities of full voltage to both on high, full voltage to one on medium high, half voltage to both on medium, half voltage to one on low and half voltage to both in parallel on warm or simmer.


Post# 1039956 , Reply# 8   7/30/2019 at 06:16 (1,703 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Glenn, did you experience any difficulty going from infinite switches to the fixed heat switches?  I liked what Hotpoint called "Recipe Heats."


Post# 1039964 , Reply# 9   7/30/2019 at 07:26 (1,703 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

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@Earhtling- thanks. However the first 4 sentences were uncalled for. If I was anything you claim I would not have started this thread. Nowhere have I claimed to know the history.

Post# 1039982 , Reply# 10   7/30/2019 at 09:25 (1,703 days old) by Tomturbomatic (Beltsville, MD)        

Actually, they were called for. You do not see it, but you have a bullying ignorance that is like wearing a sandpaper suit and rubbing people the wrong way. You have not listened in your threads when people who know more than you do have tried to explain the historical and technological reasons for why things are the way they are. If you have not seen two tube surface units, you must be quite young, which can be good, but which also puts you at a disadvantage for knowing the history of electric ranges unless you have been doing more studying than the knowledge you bring to this place shows.  Those switches that you were proposing using for an oven all were meant for controlling two elements whether they were two open coil heaters in a hundred year old oven or the more modern two sealed rod elements in an electric surface unit so that current could be distributed between the two heaters.

 

You have such a superior impression of yourself that you won't even give us your name which hardly fosters collegiality.  If you want to learn, come to the forum with a question, not to throw down a statement.  I don't see how you are going to build an electric oven without a thermostat unless you remove the thermostat from a thermostatically controlled oven and replace it and the heating elements with all new equipment.  I do not know how you are at  working with electricity, but one thing that you do not understand is the difference between controlling input like on a surface unit and controlling temperature like in an oven. Until you understand the theories and principles behind some of these methods of electric cooking, you pose a danger to yourself and will never understand what we are talking about when we try to explain what you need to know. 


Post# 1039986 , Reply# 11   7/30/2019 at 09:35 (1,703 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )        
Let me explain the GE Hotpoint system,,

Hi Both coils on 240 volts, 2nd or Med Hi one coil on 240 volts, 3rd or med both coils on 120 volts lo 1 coil on 120 volts warm both coils in series 120 volts, I prefer this system As infinite heat switches age the heats can vary, with the fixed positions you don't have to think about it You push that button for lo or third etc and you know exactly what its going to do.


Post# 1039990 , Reply# 12   7/30/2019 at 09:48 (1,703 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )        
Infinite Controls

Infinite heats were introduced in the 40s First on Admiral, Thermador and Universal ranges, These used as described above ,the clockwork mechanism built by Tuttle and Kift who made the Monotube Units, Then Westinghouse introduced their infinite heat units in 1953,Norge in 55, Frigidaire in 60, and im sure I have missed a bunch but these I know of GE and Hotpoint didn't have infinite heats until the mid 60s I still like fixed heat units best.

Post# 1040005 , Reply# 13   7/30/2019 at 11:10 (1,703 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

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@Tom- at this point I think you are looking for social BDSM to which I will say thanks but no thanks. I do not consent or feel comfortable with the idea.


@Noreway- Thanks! Makes sense and an elegant way of doing things. 120/240 does have its advantages.







Post# 1040006 , Reply# 14   7/30/2019 at 11:15 (1,703 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )        
I think...The fixed heat system is safer

The infinite heat switches can stick when they get older and the contacts burn, If you had a roast on cooking on low heat and decided to go to the store etc and the contacts stuck you could have a fire and at the least a smoked up house, with the fixed heat, when you set it on low it can not change no matter what


Post# 1040007 , Reply# 15   7/30/2019 at 11:24 (1,703 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

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x2 I think the same.

FWIW 10 years ago I had a GE range where the front infinite control was sluggish and had a mind of its own. Get to hot sometimes stop working others.


Post# 1040290 , Reply# 16   8/1/2019 at 13:02 (1,700 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

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Post# 1040295 , Reply# 17   8/1/2019 at 13:06 (1,700 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

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And what would this element be used for? I mean yes for broiling, but why two and not just one? Series parellel multi wattage type deal? What ever is being accomplished I like it.




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