Thread Number: 80126
/ Tag: Refrigerators
1966 General Electric Spacemaker 19 Refrigerator MOD. TCF19DBC P.2 |
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Post# 1040726   8/4/2019 at 22:19 (1,697 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Formally: My General Electric Refrigerator/Bottom Mount Freezer.
Part of the haul of vintage appliances from Newport, R.I. . Thanks to Jeannine (spacepig) for posting the ad, John (combo52) for letting me know, and a huge thank you to Scott (searsbest) for helping move and load those heavy appliances.
This is a General Electric Model TCF19DBC Serial # LB631067.
My General Electric Refrigerator/Bottom Mount Freezer. P1
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Post# 1040728 , Reply# 1   8/4/2019 at 22:28 (1,697 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1040732 , Reply# 2   8/4/2019 at 23:38 (1,697 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1040748 , Reply# 3   8/5/2019 at 04:40 (1,697 days old) by turbokinetic (Northport, Alabama USA)   |   | |
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That looks very nice! It's hard to find antique appliances which are all complete - especially fridges because they have so many easily-removable parts that get lost through the years. |
Post# 1040757 , Reply# 4   8/5/2019 at 07:42 (1,697 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1040765 , Reply# 5   8/5/2019 at 10:19 (1,697 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1040887 , Reply# 6   8/6/2019 at 13:46 (1,695 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1040892 , Reply# 7   8/6/2019 at 14:06 (1,695 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1040899 , Reply# 8   8/6/2019 at 15:24 (1,695 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1040903 , Reply# 9   8/6/2019 at 16:16 (1,695 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1040908 , Reply# 10   8/6/2019 at 18:17 (1,695 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1040916 , Reply# 11   8/6/2019 at 22:26 (1,695 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1040921 , Reply# 12   8/6/2019 at 23:41 (1,695 days old) by oliger (Indianapolis, Indiana)   |   | |
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I would be lying if I said that I wasn't jealous! |
Post# 1040942 , Reply# 13   8/7/2019 at 11:34 (1,694 days old) by cadman (Cedar Falls, IA)   |   | |
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Post# 1040956 , Reply# 14   8/7/2019 at 16:22 (1,694 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1040957 , Reply# 15   8/7/2019 at 16:38 (1,694 days old) by spacepig (Floridas Emerald Coast)   |   | |
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Post# 1040962 , Reply# 16   8/7/2019 at 17:20 (1,694 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1040963 , Reply# 17   8/7/2019 at 17:24 (1,694 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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Post# 1040965 , Reply# 18   8/7/2019 at 17:25 (1,694 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1040967 , Reply# 19   8/7/2019 at 17:27 (1,694 days old) by appnut (TX)   |   | |
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Post# 1041051 , Reply# 20   8/8/2019 at 13:50 (1,693 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Temperature in refrigerator section hovering around 34F. Freezer section at -4F. Amp draw only goes beyond 5 at compressor startup. Once it settles down, it never goes above 4.8. Today, most of the groceries will return to the kitchen refrigerator, as I had emptied it to give a thorough cleaning (God, the things you find in there). The Spacesaver will be regulated for beverage, overflow duty. |
Post# 1041116 , Reply# 21   8/8/2019 at 20:01 (1,693 days old) by mtn1584 (USA)   |   | |
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Where are the pix of your Maytag washer? Mike |
Post# 1041132 , Reply# 22   8/8/2019 at 22:03 (1,693 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1041260 , Reply# 23   8/10/2019 at 06:41 (1,692 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Well, woke up this morning to the same issue. Compressor cycling on and off every minute or so. Temperatures rising inside the refrigerator/freezer. However AMP draw remains normal between 4.9 and 5.2. Mad dash in moving the remaining groceries to the GE daily driver. Apparently, unless I got yet another defective one, the 3n'1 was not at fault.
This post was last edited 08/10/2019 at 07:11 |
Post# 1041262 , Reply# 24   8/10/2019 at 07:01 (1,692 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Not so good morning Louie, I don't think that the 3 in 1 relays can handle the 4-5 amp draw of an old compressor for very long, I was concerned about the nearly 5 amp draw you were measuring.
You may have to go back to a mechanical relay and conventual overload. You could also add a start capacitor and it would be interesting to try adding a run capacitor as well, this can bring down the running watts [ and temperature ] of an older compressor like this one.
John L. |
Post# 1041263 , Reply# 25   8/10/2019 at 07:10 (1,692 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1041288 , Reply# 27   8/10/2019 at 12:09 (1,691 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1041298 , Reply# 28   8/10/2019 at 13:42 (1,691 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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John, I made a mistake, the maximum amp draw is 5.8, not 6.6.
This post was last edited 08/10/2019 at 14:11 |
Post# 1041444 , Reply# 29   8/11/2019 at 16:15 (1,690 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Tomorrow I am buying a Supco 3 n'1 straight from a factory authorized dealer. No more Amazon. I am certain I got another knock-off even though I purchased it from another vendor.
RCO410 RCO410--RELAY CAPACITOR OVERLOAD 110 to 125VAC Solid-state Hardstart Relay, includes relay, overload, and start capacitor. Use refrigeration systems with or without run capacitors. Rated for 1/4 HP to 1/3 HP compressors. Maximum RLA 6.8 Amps.
Let's see if the third time is the charm. |
Post# 1041446 , Reply# 30   8/11/2019 at 16:33 (1,690 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Hi Louie, go ahead and try, but we have seen lots of THE REAL Supco relays fail as well, we only use the 3 in 1 relays as a last resort if we can't easily find the correct part or as a temporary fix.
I differently would not use one on one of my refs if I had a lot of food in it.
PS the amp draw listed on the nameplate of a refrigerator is of little or no value, it does not tell you what the running watts-amps should be, the service Manuel you got lists the running watts for different running conditions.
John L. |
Post# 1041447 , Reply# 31   8/11/2019 at 17:42 (1,690 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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You had mentioned a mechanical relay, conventional overload and a start capacitor.
This post was last edited 08/11/2019 at 22:13 |
Post# 1041459 , Reply# 32   8/11/2019 at 21:14 (1,690 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1041461 , Reply# 33   8/11/2019 at 21:33 (1,690 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1041464 , Reply# 34   8/11/2019 at 22:03 (1,690 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1041465 , Reply# 35   8/11/2019 at 22:12 (1,690 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Original Relay:
The refrigerator is rated at 1/3 HP. I found this starter relay that may work:
See link:
CLICK HERE TO GO TO Ultramatic's LINK |
Post# 1041480 , Reply# 36   8/12/2019 at 06:17 (1,690 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Hi Louie, it looks like you are finding the correct parts and wiring diagrams. The last little square box thing you found is the same as the 3 in 1 without the start capacitor [ I would skip that for now ]
If I were there trying to fix this situation I might add a start capacitor and may try a run capacitor as well to bring down running watts and compressor heat as well.
You just need to move closer to Jeff and I.
John L. |
Post# 1041481 , Reply# 37   8/12/2019 at 06:18 (1,690 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Hi Louie, it looks like you are finding the correct parts and wiring diagrams. The last little square box thing you found is the same as the 3 in 1 without the start capacitor [ I would skip that for now ]
If I were there trying to fix this situation I might add a start capacitor and may try a run capacitor as well to bring down running watts and compressor heat as well.
You just need to move closer to Jeff and I.
John L. |
Post# 1041485 , Reply# 38   8/12/2019 at 07:06 (1,690 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1041520 , Reply# 40   8/12/2019 at 16:20 (1,689 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1041552 , Reply# 41   8/12/2019 at 18:41 (1,689 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1041555 , Reply# 42   8/12/2019 at 18:48 (1,689 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Post# 1041559 , Reply# 43   8/12/2019 at 19:00 (1,689 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1041584 , Reply# 44   8/13/2019 at 02:27 (1,689 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Original GE Relay #WR7X85 Type 3ARR12PK125A (Pick-up current AMPS. 11.6 Drop-out current AMPS. 9.9)
Cross referenced with MARS 27006 and GEM CR316
View Full Size
This post was last edited 08/13/2019 at 06:59 |
Post# 1041585 , Reply# 45   8/13/2019 at 02:47 (1,689 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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The Guardette WR7X83 Type 3ARG1C28 is cross referenced with MARS 35012
On it's way.
CLICK HERE TO GO TO Ultramatic's LINK |
Post# 1041614 , Reply# 46   8/13/2019 at 16:05 (1,688 days old) by ken (NYS)   |   | |
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Post# 1041631 , Reply# 47   8/13/2019 at 18:22 (1,688 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1041652 , Reply# 48   8/13/2019 at 20:52 (1,688 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Post# 1041771 , Reply# 49   8/14/2019 at 19:26 (1,687 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Would a running capacitor help extend the life of the compressor? And what values must the running capacitor have? This post was last edited 08/14/2019 at 19:58 |
Post# 1041912 , Reply# 50   8/16/2019 at 15:37 (1,685 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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The GEM CR316 relay has arrived, but the MARS 35012 overload protector is now "not available". Funny how they take your money and only tell you it's not available after you inquire on the status of the order. I found another source and ordered it. So let's wait some more.
350 Series 3/4" motor protectors HP @ 110/115V: 1/5, 1/4, 1/3 HP @ 208/240V: 1/2
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Post# 1042254 , Reply# 51   8/19/2019 at 18:57 (1,682 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1042255 , Reply# 52   8/19/2019 at 19:00 (1,682 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1042605 , Reply# 53   8/23/2019 at 21:28 (1,678 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Well the new Guardette replacement arrived today. Notice the rating for HP. At 110/115 Volts It's good for up to 1/4 HP. This refrigerator is 1/3 HP. After extensive cross referencing, the 35012 was the direct equivalent to the original WRWR7X83 Type 3ARG1C28. I read somewhere that you can not determine the correct overload protector using the HP rating alone.
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Post# 1042628 , Reply# 54   8/24/2019 at 09:34 (1,678 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))   |   | |
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So, I never was interested much in fridges and freezers... But that freezer sure as heck looks verry advanced technology wise, almost like a convection oven, just cold, if you know what I mean... |
Post# 1042648 , Reply# 56   8/24/2019 at 15:50 (1,677 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1043434 , Reply# 57   8/31/2019 at 21:29 (1,670 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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The original Guardette has both wires attached to the #1 tab. The replacement MARS has one wire at the #1 tab. The other wire at the #3 tab. If I am reading the schematic correctly, the #3 with would plug into the relay. The #1 wire would be connecting to the orange wire coming from the refrigerator cabinet.
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Post# 1043440 , Reply# 58   8/31/2019 at 22:42 (1,670 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1043612 , Reply# 59   9/2/2019 at 19:04 (1,668 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1043624 , Reply# 60   9/2/2019 at 20:30 (1,668 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1043634 , Reply# 61   9/2/2019 at 21:48 (1,668 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1043646 , Reply# 62   9/2/2019 at 22:42 (1,668 days old) by sarahperdue (Alabama)   |   | |
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Post# 1043671 , Reply# 63   9/3/2019 at 07:07 (1,668 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Yay Running again, The condenser fan motor is supposed to be wired with the compressor so it shuts off and runs only with the compressor.
I am still a little concerned about the almost 5 amp draw, did you try adding a compressor run capacitor ?
Energy consumption ? This ref when running properly according to the GE service Manuel will use about 154 KWs of power a month, that's 3 times what a modern FF 20 CF ref uses, the good news is that many vintage refs this size like Amana, WP-CS, Admiral, Philco use almost 200 KWs for a Similar size ref.
John L. |
Post# 1043692 , Reply# 64   9/3/2019 at 11:39 (1,667 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Thanks Sara. Except for the condenser fan issue, it continues to cool just fine. As for power consumption, it must be a lot higher than a modern refrigerator. However, that may be a mute point if you have to replace the modern one every 3 years with a new one. Anyone want to wager how many LG's will be running 20 years from now? |
Post# 1043696 , Reply# 65   9/3/2019 at 12:35 (1,667 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Hi John! I basically reconnected everything how it was originally. I guess somewhere I miswired the condenser fan. I will be doing a schematic showing exactly what I did and hopefully correct this. The running amp. draw is 4.9. I did not install a running capacitor at this time. Power draw is hovering around 329 watts while compressor is running. So far I haven't been able to find the normal watt usage for this particular model. So I don't know if what I am reading is within the normal range. The refrigerator is located in an area where the ambient temperature never goes beyond 75F. |
Post# 1044145 , Reply# 66   9/7/2019 at 23:35 (1,663 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1044155 , Reply# 67   9/8/2019 at 01:17 (1,663 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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I plugged in the run capacitor. Amp load was plummeting down to 3.9. Then it began to climb quickly to about 6.1. I was unplugging the refrigerator when a flash, then click. I removed the run capacitor and reconnected everything as it was. Compressor will not turn on. So I either burned out the Guardette or the start relay. The fun never ends.
What I did: |
Post# 1044195 , Reply# 71   9/8/2019 at 12:39 (1,662 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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First of all, thank you Bud and David for all your help and advice. I deeply appreciate it.
After a few hours of the refrigerator being disconnected, I plugged it in again to see whether the Guardette had reset. Apparently it's toast. The refrigerator just clicks every 30 seconds or so. Everything else seems to be running. I have not tested it with a multi-meter yet, but I will shortly. As for the starter relay, it was plugged into the correct pins of the compressor.
IF, I can still use a run capacitor, which tabs on the capacitor would go to the starter relay?
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Post# 1044202 , Reply# 72   9/8/2019 at 15:07 (1,662 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1044209 , Reply# 73   9/8/2019 at 15:47 (1,662 days old) by Lorainfurniture (Cleveland )   |   | |
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If the compressor is clicking and not starting, as long as the compressor ohms out ok I’d replace the relay |
Post# 1044216 , Reply# 74   9/8/2019 at 17:16 (1,662 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1044219 , Reply# 75   9/8/2019 at 17:46 (1,662 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1044773 , Reply# 76   9/13/2019 at 14:18 (1,657 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1044813 , Reply# 77   9/13/2019 at 19:54 (1,657 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Ran a series of tests with David. The compressor is fried. Thanks everyone for all the help. I guess it was just not meant to be. This post was last edited 09/13/2019 at 20:19 |
Post# 1044816 , Reply# 78   9/13/2019 at 20:31 (1,657 days old) by spacepig (Floridas Emerald Coast)   |   | |
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Post# 1044822 , Reply# 79   9/13/2019 at 21:24 (1,657 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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It's not going to be easy. While there is a very similar compressor available on ebay, it's 1/4 HP. I need a 1/3 HP. I feel having the same compressor would make it far easier for some local tech to do the job. I won't lie, I'm real bummed out for now, but I am still fairly optimistic it will be repaired. Just don't know when. |
Post# 1044846 , Reply# 80   9/14/2019 at 03:04 (1,657 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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The current OHM numbers are:
Common to Run : 2.3 Common to Start: 1.547 Start to Run 1.549
Doing the ground test one lead to a clean piece of copper. other lead to all three compressor terminal registered as 0.L
I don't understand why the multimeter numbers are so vastly different now. Just after the spark the numbers were:
Common to Run: 4 Common to Start: 5.5 Start to Run: 10
Starter relay and the running capacitor checked out fine.
There is no sign of anything had arced or burned .
There is one thing I just realized. The Guardette was NOT attached to the compressor when I ran that test. So it could not sense the heat of the compressor as it started to overheat. The amp load reached about 7 just while I was unplugging the refrigerator when it flashed.
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Post# 1044853 , Reply# 83   9/14/2019 at 07:53 (1,657 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Bummer
Thank You David and Bud for your excellent diagnosis and help with Louies GE refrigerator.
I knew the compressor was likely toast from the high amp readings he was getting with the 3-in-1 relay he had on it.
Because I work 5 days a week helping dozens of people every working day with appliance problems I was not able to put in the time trying to walk you through something you were unlikely to be able to fix. When you were buying this non-working refrigerator the plan was to leave it at Martins in NJ where either my Brother Jeff or I could test and repair it during our visits there.
The best way to fix it now would be to install a modern approximately 1000 BTU compressor Like Cory did in his mid 60s GE. I also have an original GE compressor or two laying around and even an extra complete sealed refrigeration system for this ref that was removed in tact. We have three of these refs running every day the one in the W Va house for over 20 years, if one of these fails I would install a modern compressor, as good as these GE compressors were nothing lasts forever.
Good luck with it and stop having birthdays on Friday the 13th, LOL
John L. |
Post# 1044867 , Reply# 84   9/14/2019 at 11:18 (1,657 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1050534 , Reply# 85   11/10/2019 at 15:13 (1,599 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Quick update.
The G.E. is now in southern New Jersey. Last week, John (Combo52) confirmed the compressor needs to be replaced. I am still hopeful someone will be able to repair it. If not, as much as it breaks my heart, it will have to be recycled. I do not have the space to store it, and I can not let it take up space in someone else's home indefinitely. |
Post# 1050569 , Reply# 86   11/10/2019 at 18:37 (1,599 days old) by ken (NYS)   |   | |
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That's sad to hear. I hate the idea of that beautiful fridge being scrapped. If only you were nearer to David(turbokinetic). As we see from his posts replacing a compressor is not difficult when one has the know-how. But its the idea of finding someone today who wants to be bothered to do it. Most everyone today has the throw away and buy new mind set.
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Post# 1050581 , Reply# 87   11/10/2019 at 19:57 (1,599 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1050616 , Reply# 88   11/10/2019 at 23:00 (1,599 days old) by turbokinetic (Northport, Alabama USA)   |   | |
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Reply #87
Louis, rent a U-Haul trailer. Make a road trip. In the case of shipping, one can spend time in lieu of money as an alternative.
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Post# 1052093 , Reply# 89   11/23/2019 at 16:11 (1,586 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1052880 , Reply# 90   12/1/2019 at 19:20 (1,578 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1066658 , Reply# 91   4/9/2020 at 16:21 (1,448 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1066677 , Reply# 92   4/9/2020 at 18:15 (1,448 days old) by turbokinetic (Northport, Alabama USA)   |   | |
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... upon the compressor is a sure fire fix for everything short of a broken heart!
So glad to see this getting some attention! |
Post# 1067230 , Reply# 93   4/13/2020 at 17:18 (1,444 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1067237 , Reply# 94   4/13/2020 at 18:16 (1,444 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1067248 , Reply# 95   4/13/2020 at 20:17 (1,444 days old) by turbokinetic (Northport, Alabama USA)   |   | |
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... tubing job! That looks much nicer than any modern factory fridge you can buy today. Quite impressed! |
Post# 1067249 , Reply# 96   4/13/2020 at 20:44 (1,444 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1067665 , Reply# 97   4/16/2020 at 18:32 (1,441 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1068248 , Reply# 98   4/20/2020 at 03:15 (1,438 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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John gave me an update: It's cooling wonderfully, the compressor runs far less. The evaporator fan motor seems to be getting noisy, so it might be replaced. Sadly, I will have to wait to go get it. Damn. This post was last edited 04/20/2020 at 07:24 |
Post# 1068276 , Reply# 99   4/20/2020 at 07:11 (1,438 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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It is cooling well, we already replaced the condenser fan motor with a ECM type, power consumption of the CFM went from 40 watts to 5.
It is the fresh food evaporator fan motor that is getting a little noisy that I am keeping an eye on.
I will also replace the Defrost timer, it has the wrong type on it, it is defrosting too often and for too long, this ref should only defrost for about 10 minutes.
John L. |
Post# 1068277 , Reply# 100   4/20/2020 at 07:22 (1,438 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1076074 , Reply# 101   6/6/2020 at 17:23 (1,390 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1090160 , Reply# 102   9/21/2020 at 13:19 (1,283 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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Post# 1123059 , Reply# 103   7/12/2021 at 10:55 (990 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City)   |   | |
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