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Thread Number: 80660
/ Tag: Recipes, Cooking Accessories
Turquoise Frigidaire oven damage. Ebay seller fraud. |
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| Post# 1046300 9/29/2019 at 16:24 (1,662 days old) by sarahperdue (Alabama) | ||
So, my friend Gabrielle and I made the thousand mile trek to North Carolina and back to pick up the turquoise Frigidaire Custom Imperial oven with French doors.
The oven is gorgeous. I took the first picture in the series and admit that I was so enraptured by its beauty that I didn't notice the trim damage. I am, however, convinced that the seller knew and deliberately omitted the damage from her description and pictures. When we asked the seller about it, she was aggressive and yelled at us. She offered no solution, and told us to leave. Quite frankly, my friend and I were taken completely by surprise. As an eBay seller, I would have apologized and asked what the buyer thought might be a fair solution. Honestly, I was blinded by desire for the oven and didn't look at the seller's feedback rating which is 96% out of over 8,000 sales. In my opinion, that's petty terrible and indicates a high volume seller who doesn't care much about customer satisfaction. It's pretty difficult to get negative feedback if you care about your reputation and your buyers. Anyway, I'm writing her nice messages regarding the damage and will then escalate it to eBay. It will establish a detailed paper trail of the incident and would be pretty funny if they agreed that the item was not as described and told her to give me a full refund and pay for round trip shipping. I'm not inclined to let the oven go back, but I am angry. She deliberately misrepresented the item assuming that I would take it anyway after driving all that way. If nothing else, I do want to make her life inconvenient for a while. The seller described the ovens as "Great condition," "Excellent," and almost immaculate." I'm posting a link to the auction and photographs. Sarah CLICK HERE TO GO TO sarahperdue's LINK on eBay | ||
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Post# 1046301 , Reply# 1 9/29/2019 at 16:48 (1,662 days old) by turbokinetic  (Northport, Alabama USA) |
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Awful.... ... the things people do!
It's hard to tell how difficult that will be to fix, from the pictures but... combined with the horrible attitude, I believe you should at least make her as uncomfortable as you were finding the hidden damage.
I would expect a partial refund and threaten negative feedback; that's for sure!
Sincerely,
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| Post# 1046305 , Reply# 2 9/29/2019 at 17:33 (1,662 days old) by sarahperdue (Alabama) | ||
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Negative Feedback
Thanks for the solidarity, David.
I've reviewed her feedback. She doesn't care. I've sent her a few kind messages. Maybe I'll request a return based on the item being not as described. I'm not sure if it works differently with a local pickup, but usually in an item not as described case, the seller is required to give a full refund and pay shipping both ways :-) | ||
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Post# 1046310 , Reply# 4 9/29/2019 at 18:21 (1,662 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Just went through same sort of thing
However item was totally not as described in being different all together. Contacted seller, they claimed it was an honest mistake (inventory manifest issues), and offered a partial refund instead of returning for full.
Obviously "Pharaoh's heart has been hardened", and you're not going to get anywhere by sending seller "nice" messages. If she/he did not offer to make things right when you were there in person collecting, don't think will do so now. Your best option is to open a case with eBay and let them work towards a resolution. Be forewarned seller likely is going to come back with you collected item in person and were aware (or should have been) about issues yet still chose to complete transaction. Ebay (and or seller) may also require return of item in order for you to get a full refund. Since you didn't pay shipping per se (as through charges tacked onto final sale), your travel costs may be out of pocket as eBay wasn't involved. If you paid via credit or charge card of course your other option is to open a dispute that way. eBay or Paypal have no jurisdiction over charge back cases from CC. Best they can do is present best case for disputed funds not to be refunded. However if CC company believes otherwise that is end of things for most part. eBay and or Paypal may hold seller harmless in such a situation (as in releasing holds on account, and or reversing any other adverse action), but then someone some where else is eating that loss. For the record abuse of INAD is one of top reasons many are abandoning eBay as sellers. There is a strong feeling eBay bends over backwards for buyers leaving sellers to twist in wind. https://community.ebay.com/t5/Buying-Sel... https://community.ebay.com/t5/Archive-Se... | ||
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Post# 1046313 , Reply# 5 9/29/2019 at 18:28 (1,662 days old) by goatfarmer (South Bend, home of Champions) |
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Post# 1046316 , Reply# 6 9/29/2019 at 18:39 (1,662 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Which one? | ||
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Post# 1046318 , Reply# 7 9/29/2019 at 18:45 (1,662 days old) by Ultramatic (New York City) |
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Post# 1046319 , Reply# 8 9/29/2019 at 18:48 (1,662 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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| Post# 1046356 , Reply# 10 9/30/2019 at 00:47 (1,662 days old) by sarahperdue (Alabama) | ||
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Launderess
I totally get INAD abuse. I once had a buyer return a hand mixer that was exactly as described. Ebay ended up refunding her money and paying my shipping costs. That was several years ago. I'm not sure eBay's response would be as equitable to a seller these days. I work hard to please my buyers and often offer partial refunds when it seems appropriate. All in all, I've been lucky to have a great group of buyers.
I remember when eBay used to be like the wild, wild west for buyers and tough luck if a seller didn't deal honestly. I think a lot of the buyer protections that were added after 2005 but before about 2015 were pretty good. I became a seller in 2014 and eBay seemed to increasingly favor buyers and high volume sellers. I brought the defect to her attention, and she refused to do anything about it. She became very aggressive and abusive. I wasn't going to leave an item I had paid for or wait in her parking lot until eBay resolution process was completed. I have no intention of returning it. I'm just planning on using eBay buyer protection tools to annoy her to the fullest extent possible then leave negative feedback. The thing is, I would have bought the ovens anyway. I probably would have paid the same price. It's just heinous to hide something like that from any buyer, but especially one who is driving so far. David, I've seen stainless ones, and a dear priest and friend has a white one in his rectory in Birmingham. A little over an inch of a piece of chrome that runs the length of the ovens is damaged. The worst part is that all someone had to do was slide it back in place. Instead, they beat it up with a hammer. The expensive fix would be to have a body shop make a replacement, but I think I can straighten it enough to be passable especially since the repair will be on the bottom. I've done some pretty amazing "bodywork" on chrome toasters and other small appliances. I'm not too shabby with a rubber hammer and some wood. I was able to slide the entire piece off easily, so I don't have to do the work while it is attached to the oven. Thank you all for the sympathy. Hans, I really wish we had had a chance to meet you, but the trip wore us both out. Getting older is affecting me in ways I would prefer not to acknowledge. It seems like just yesterday I could have made the run to DC by myself without batting an eye and North Carolina would have been a piece of cake. Not anymore. Gabrielle and I switched drivers every hour or so and were still fried when we got home. Sarah | ||
| Post# 1046372 , Reply# 11 9/30/2019 at 04:50 (1,662 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c ) | ||
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Sarah I understand completely Im 54 and it sure aint 21 I used to think nothing of driving 10 or 12 hours but with my eyesight not being what it was, and arthritis I just cant and wont try it. | ||
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Post# 1046374 , Reply# 12 9/30/2019 at 05:28 (1,662 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK) |
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Ebay issues
Having been duped by a seller on eBay I am very reluctant these days to use it. I was told my item was delivered but I never received it !
Opened a dispute on Ebay the seller sent them confirmation of delivery but I was never given the chance to tell them it was not delivered to me and I could prove no one had been via my RING doorbell as no delivery made on that day and time. Ebay however closed the dispute said it was resolved and I am out of pocket £20 ok so not much but its the principle of not allowing me to explain my side and no resolution whatsoever !! Good luck Sarah I hope you at least get a partial refund but with my experience I would not hold my breath. Austin | ||
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Post# 1046377 , Reply# 13 9/30/2019 at 05:32 (1,662 days old) by goatfarmer (South Bend, home of Champions) |
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Post# 1046378 , Reply# 14 9/30/2019 at 06:35 (1,662 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR) |
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Buy and Sell on eBay.....
I buy quite a bit on eBay and have sold a number of things over the years. I have had a few occasions where things were poorly packed and arrived broken. On a couple of occasions I had to use the eBay protection to get reimbursed and never had an issue. On the one that was closed, did you immediately go back to them and explain it should not be closed and you could prove your position?
The worst for me was one time where I was selling a laptop. In my ad I noted I wouldn't ship the computer until the check cleared (this was in the days before PayPal was what it is now). I don't recall the status of using Credit Cards either. The check did not clear so I had to work with eBay to get the transaction canceled and my fees reversed. This was many years ago and things have gotten so much better with their protection plan. I can say I've never had a negative experience using this service.
Good luck Sarah. I'm eager to know how this works out since you already took ownership of the oven. Seems it should be in your favor given her feedback might demonstrate this isn't her first time of doing this. | ||
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Post# 1046404 , Reply# 15 9/30/2019 at 08:14 (1,662 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI) |
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| Post# 1046424 , Reply# 16 9/30/2019 at 11:27 (1,662 days old) by sarahperdue (Alabama) | ||
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Thanks, y'all
I'll be surprised by even a partial refund since eBay does not mediate partials. If eBay did side with me and expect her to refund my money and pay for return shipping, it would be interesting to see how she handles it.
As for trust, I have had many, many more good experiences than bad. I bought my 6' stainless Elkay sink from a Craigslist seller in Rochester, New York. No buyer protection there, but he shipped it out just fine. I'm about to make a round trip to St. Louis for some more Geneva cabinets then Ft. Knox for a donor GE wall fridge. Another Craigslist seller has agreed to ship three more Geneva cabinets to me via Greyhound. All are risky transactions, but I think most people are basically good and vintage buyers and sellers are better. Ebay has worked pretty well for me also for both buying and selling. My most disastrous breakage experience was definitely USPS's fault, but it happened because I made a terrible packing error and left a vintage carbon microphone attached to its ring by springs. One of the little loops that secures the springs broke. Sarah | ||
| Post# 1046613 , Reply# 18 10/2/2019 at 09:41 (1,660 days old) by firedome (Binghamton NY & Lake Champlain VT) | ||
most unfortunate...
sorry to hear of your travails Sarah. We've been buyers and sellers on eBay since 1999 and have 800+ 100% transactions, but we'll no longer use it. Unless desperate to sell something worldwide we'll use FB Marketplace, CL, or websites about the specific product - like antiqueradios.com, or similar - that allow free ads. We will no longer tolerate eBay or PayPal's policies unilaterally favoring buyers.
But bad things can happen anywhere and we had a similar event just few weeks ago, however the outcome resolved in a much better fashion: we bought sight unseen an early '70s Frigidaire range in Coppertone from a seller in Albany, about 3 hrs away but on the way to our summer home. The pics on CL were somewhat from a distance but it looked great and clean, and the seller described it as looking "almost unused". Based on that we made an agreement and made payment by PayPal and set a pickup date for our next trip to Vermont. She sent additional pics and I then spotted something and asked about it. She replied that there was a crack in the glass backsplash from top to bottom, something she had not mentioned in the ad or subsequently. I replied I wouldn't have bought it if I'd known about it, and luckily she offered to refund my payment and did so, doing the honorable thing. I do believe the great majority are honest, but corners are sometimes cut. As they say: trust but verify! | ||
| Post# 1046631 , Reply# 19 10/2/2019 at 12:09 (1,660 days old) by sarahperdue (Alabama) | ||
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Chuck | ||
| Post# 1046632 , Reply# 20 10/2/2019 at 12:18 (1,660 days old) by sarahperdue (Alabama) | ||
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Still a great oven And it is still a fantastic oven. I would have bought it anyway. The trim will be a pain to fix depending on how perfect I want to get it, and expensive if I have it done at a body shop.
I agree that eBay policies have gone too far in favor of buyers, and I don't think the policies address the vintage items that I sell. I can't afford to have a "forever" return policy, and it bothers me a lot that the "power seller" ratings have very little to do with the level of service a seller provides. | ||
| Post# 1046640 , Reply# 21 10/2/2019 at 13:14 (1,660 days old) by firedome (Binghamton NY & Lake Champlain VT) | ||
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people can get aggressive...
when they're exposed as fraudsters it seems! Luckily in our case they didn't, but still there was no excuse for not pointing out such a gross defect, however maybe they had figured on an in-person transaction.
I seen those Hotpoint French-door wall ovens for sale from time to time, maybe eventually a parts oven will pop up or even a seller willing to send a part if the whole thing doesn't sell, wall ovens may be one of the more difficult vintage appliances to move, you never know. | ||
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Post# 1046938 , Reply# 22 10/6/2019 at 04:31 (1,656 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN) |
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| Post# 1048375 , Reply# 23 10/21/2019 at 23:24 (1,640 days old) by sarahperdue (Alabama) | ||
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Good news update
Ebay was surprisingly helpful. I called them (I usually avoid the phone). I expected that my only option would be to open an item not as described claim. I was quite pleasantly surprised when the eBay customer service representative listened to my story with obvious concern. He told me that he would contact the seller and tell her that I had a problem. He said that if I hadn't heard from her by a certain date to call back and eBay would open a case on my behalf.
Several days later, I received a $75 partial refund offer from the seller. eBay gave me a month to accept or decline the offer. I sat on it for a week and a half or so then accepted. In other good news, I took the trim by an auto body shop. One of the guys said he didn't think he could do anything with it then took it back into the shop with him. The next thing I heard was the sound of steel hammering on steel. I panicked (I was planning to use a rubber mallet) and raced into the shop all full of thanks and I can take it from heres. I was amazed by how much he did in a couple of minutes and realized that I should have trusted the pro to do it right. He said he hadn't quite finished it, but I was already a bit embarrassed. I told him, very honestly, that I was impressed with the work he'd done and asked what I owed him. He said nothing. Wow! and I thanked him again. I was afraid it was going to be an expensive fix. So, all has ended well so far--unless I foul it up by trying to finish it myself. I'm reasonably confident I won't. The man at the body shop did the part I didn't think I could do. Sarah | ||
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