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Thread Number: 80750
/ Tag: Other Home Products or Autos
General Electric Stereo Console Questions |
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Post# 1047376 , Reply# 1 10/10/2019 at 15:32 (1,658 days old) by reactor  (Oak Ridge, Tennessee-- ) |
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nice tube unit
This was one of General Electric's last tube units. I saw this of Facebook and was drooling over it. Glad someone from this site got it.
Often bad output capacitors are to blame for weak to no sound. If you can do some basic soldering, they are no problem to replace. GE was still using VM changers at this time, shortly after they purchased Glasser-Steers changer company, and then began using their own. Of course, the best thing is to disassemble the changer and clean and lubricate it. However, that may not be necessary just to get it up and running running. I would recommend a "precision oiler." Radio shack used to carry them. Parts Express online supplier did as well, and you can also find them on Ebay. Some specifically made with synthetic oil for turntables. They are small plastic squeeze tube with a hollow needle that will deliver oil to very specific locations, drop by drop. I use it to lubricator all my turntables. Be careful not to get oil on the idler wheel or platter. Lubricate both bearings of the motor and the platter ball bearings. Use a paper towel with 90 or higher percent rubbing alcohol to clean the inside of the platter where the idler rest. And use the same alcohol, on a Q-tip, to quickly clean the edges of the idler that makes content with the platter. (Wash your hands first so you do not put body oils on the parts.) Put the platter back and rotate it by hand (clockwise) until the bearing turns free, then do the same after turning the control to reject "rej." DO NOT rotate the turntable backward, this will damage a VM turntable. Later on you may wish to do more extensive cleaning/lubricating, but hopefully this will enable you to start enjoying your beautiful machine. | ||
| Post# 1047378 , Reply# 2 10/10/2019 at 15:43 (1,658 days old) by cg223710 (Ohio) | ||
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Thank you so much for your input! I love the uniqueness of this one, and not just the ornate, large ones you see so often. Any chance you know the year?! | ||
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Post# 1047380 , Reply# 3 10/10/2019 at 15:55 (1,658 days old) by reactor (Oak Ridge, Tennessee-- ) |
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year | ||
| Post# 1047398 , Reply# 5 10/10/2019 at 20:13 (1,658 days old) by IowaBear (Cedar Rapids, IA) | ||
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Post# 1047400 , Reply# 6 10/10/2019 at 20:31 (1,658 days old) by reactor (Oak Ridge, Tennessee-- ) |
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unlikely to be a speaker problem
Cara, I thoughtI might have the Sam's Photofact schematic on file for your model, but unfortunately I do not. I will try to get the exact date for you.
It is very unlikely you speakers are "blown." Your controls (called potentiometers or "pots") are probably dirty and not making good contact, this can certainly affect the sound and diminish loudness. As I also mentioned before,it is very common for the capacitors to go bad on amplifiers of of this age. Your pots are probably very dirty and/or you have faults capacitors. Start with cleaning the pots on the volume control, balance and bass, treble. Radio Shack and even Lowe's carry electrical contact cleaner. Very safe. Just unplug your unit and use the little spray wand that came with the aerosal can and spray into the back openings of the volume pots, etc. Then rotate the controls back and forth before the cleaner can evaporate to clean the feeler and the little coils in the volume and tone controls. See if this makes any improvement in the sound in volume and or reducing the crackling. If not, next step is to get a couple of new output capacitors. | ||
| Post# 1047402 , Reply# 7 10/10/2019 at 20:36 (1,658 days old) by cg223710 (Ohio) | ||
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You’re a huge help! Do you happen to know of any manuals or “How-to” videos in terms of oiling the turntable like you suggested earlier?! Thanks | ||
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Post# 1047409 , Reply# 8 10/10/2019 at 21:11 (1,658 days old) by reactor (Oak Ridge, Tennessee-- ) |
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model year
I found the Sam's Photofact, which is a publication that breaks down the parts of the unit (tv, stereo, etc.) into what they call a schematic, and photographs all the chassis parts/components to aid in repair. Your unit appears in the 735-7 folder, which would make it a 1964 model stereo.
You have a doubly valuable unit as it is the last year that GE produced tube amps for their home audio equipment. Their 1965 consoles were all transistorized (solid-state). I will look for any VM changer video guides for lubrication, if not I can guide you through it very easily. Barry | ||
| Post# 1047416 , Reply# 10 10/10/2019 at 22:40 (1,658 days old) by cfz2882 (Belle Fourche,SD) | ||
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the "tube"chassis starting to wonder if the tube chassis is an add-on since "music distribution" and channels are mentioned... | ||
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Post# 1047425 , Reply# 11 10/11/2019 at 06:08 (1,657 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR) |
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Amazing... | ||
| Post# 1047434 , Reply# 12 10/11/2019 at 08:00 (1,657 days old) by cg223710 (Ohio) | ||
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Thank you so much everyone! All of your feedback is welcomed and appreciated! | ||
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Post# 1047435 , Reply# 13 10/11/2019 at 08:08 (1,657 days old) by reactor (Oak Ridge, Tennessee-- ) |
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tubes
Cara,
I knw many of us are talking of capacitor changes, and checking solder joints, etc. From what you say this is not your expertise nor experience. Start with the simple and work up. The simplest things you can do, to begin with, are to lubricate your changer and clean your controls. Neither requires any experience just a little labor and care. Since you said you were willing to pay money, you may want to go ahead and change out your tubes. Remove the tube cover and each tube will have a number on it. You can usually find what you need to replace them on Ebay. It's as easy as changing a light bulb, they pull straight out. Do not bend them to the side as you remove or insert so you do not bend the pins. You may as well go ahead and change them out. If you can't read the number on the tubes (a mixture of letters and numbers,for example: 12AX7) GE has a schematic on the inside of the cabinet with each tube, its location and its number. Brendan, GE is referring to the "Porta-Fi" music distribution system which sends out a signal for remote speakers, over the homes electrical wiring system. The owner can buy the optional Porta-Fi System and plug the receiver/speaker in anywhere in the house for remote (however, monophonic) music. There are different channels to prevent interference from multiple systems on the same lines. | ||
| Post# 1047437 , Reply# 14 10/11/2019 at 08:32 (1,657 days old) by cg223710 (Ohio) | ||
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So for the tubes, I looked at the schematics in the Sam's Photofact that you spoke about, and it has 7 listed, but looks like there's four V7's on the schematics. Find attached pictures. Like I said, I have ZERO experience but I'm excited to figure it out! | ||
| Post# 1047438 , Reply# 15 10/11/2019 at 09:08 (1,657 days old) by cg223710 (Ohio) | ||
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I also just looked up tubes, and would you suggest they be the same brand? Or would it be okay to have half GE and half RCA? | ||
| Post# 1047455 , Reply# 16 10/11/2019 at 12:43 (1,657 days old) by LordKenmore (The Laundry Room) | ||
Tube brand shouldn't matter as long as it's the same type of tube (using that number/letters ID on the tube, such as 6BA6). In the radio era (and maybe when this was made), there might be suggestions on the label saying something like: "For best performance, use nothing but our tubes!" But I've noticed that most electronics of the tube era usually have a mix of brands.
I've only quickly scanned the above,so I might have missed something. But I'm not sure replacing the tubes would make much sense. Yes, they wear. But there is a good chance that they still work well enough to at least get started. Problems in something this age are more likely to be elsewhere--like capacitors as mentioned above. Tube health can be checked by testers--although finding someone with such a tester would be difficult in this era. | ||
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Post# 1047489 , Reply# 17 10/11/2019 at 20:25 (1,657 days old) by reactor (Oak Ridge, Tennessee-- ) |
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tuner section
Your tube chart indicates the tubes are for the tuner section. There should be a separate section for the audio amp in the Sams folder.
Most likely your tuner tubes are good as you are receiving a signal, it is just not getting amplified properly. As John says, (if you do have tube amp, and I am beginning to think you do not, but we'll see) there is no way to ascertain if the tubes are good or bad, without a tester. Testers are not readily available anymore to the general consumer. At that age tube can get weak. Most people just replace all tubes when they refurbish a stereo or TV. But before we make a move on that issue we need to find out if your audio amp is solid state or not. Please scan the audio section of the Sam's folder. Odd's are you are going to need output capacitors, it is a very common failure point among audio amps of that age. It's not a bad idea to replace them with fresh capacitors anyway, whether they are good or bad, just as its good to refresh your tubes. It would be up to you if you want to try it on your own or just pull the amp and take it to a technician to have the caps installed. Remember there are other possibilities for your sound problems, but we have hit the most probable, and the easiest ones for a beginner to attack. | ||
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Post# 1047493 , Reply# 18 10/11/2019 at 20:56 (1,657 days old) by reactor (Oak Ridge, Tennessee-- ) |
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tuner section
Your tube chart indicates the tubes are for the tuner section. There should be a separate section for the audio amp in the Sams folder.
Most likely your tuner tubes are good as you are receiving a signal, it is just not getting amplified properly. As John says, (if you do have tube amp, and I am beginning to think you may not, but we'll see) there is no way to ascertain if the tubes are good or bad, without a tester. Testers are not readily available anymore to the general consumer. At that age tubes can get weak. Most people just replace all tubes when they refurbish a stereo or TV. But before we make a move on that issue we need to find out if your audio amp is solid state or not. Please scan the audio section of the Sam's folder. Odd's are you are going to need output capacitors, it is a very common failure point among audio amps of that age. It's not a bad idea to replace them with fresh capacitors anyway, whether they are good or bad, just as its good to refresh your tubes. It would be up to you if you want to try it on your own or just pull the amp and take it to a technician to have the caps installed. Remember there are other possibilities for your sound problems, but we have hit the most probable, and the easiest ones for a beginner to attack. I would say the odds are about 8.5 out of 10 you have bad caps. If money is not an issue, pull your tuner and amp and take it, with your Sam's Photofact manual, to a vintage electronics enthusiasts or find and electronics repair technician. Just tell them you want an overhaul/renewal. They will clean all your pots, the tuner, replace the output caps and check circuit board test points with an oscilloscope, for proper waveform, and replace worn components as necessary. It may cost you a bit more but then your General Electric stereo should be ready to give you another 55 years of service! For your changer, odds are you can lubricate and clean it enough, yourself, to get it going and play records at proper speed. VM (Voice of Music) changers of that age commonly will slow and struggle a little, sometimes even stalling, on the changing cycle. Don't panic. Nothing major wrong, just hardened grease and some accumulated dirt. Sometime in the future you may want a technician to totally disassemble the turntable and clean the gears and bearings then re-lubricate. It will run like new. | ||
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Post# 1047494 , Reply# 19 10/11/2019 at 20:59 (1,657 days old) by reactor (Oak Ridge, Tennessee-- ) |
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apologies | ||
| Post# 1047531 , Reply# 20 10/12/2019 at 13:54 (1,656 days old) by cg223710 (Ohio) | ||
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So i plan on running out today to get the electronics cleaner, precision oiler, and some rubbing alcohol, that i could’ve sworn i had at my house. I was looking at the photo fact and it has a huge list of capacitors. How would i know what to replace?
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| Post# 1047535 , Reply# 21 10/12/2019 at 14:38 (1,656 days old) by firedome (Binghamton NY & Lake Champlain VT) | ||
getting a professional refurb...
by an experienced audio technician can be pretty expensive, not so much the parts but the labor. Used to do a lot of that kind of restoration work myself as a sideline of being Editor/Writer for a vintage tube audio electronics magazine, but age and eyesight considerations make it more difficult to do now, so last year had a highly reputable outfit here in Binghamton refurbish our Scott stereo tube amp and it cost nearly $500. You might get a local ARRL HAM radio club member to help you out, check your local clubs at: www.arrl.org/clubs... many helpful folks in these local clubs and a good source for advice.
We do have a Western Electric (Hickok) Cardmatic tube tester and am happy to help anyone with tube testing needs locally in Central NY. Most small signal front end and preamp type tubes as shown in the above schematic rarely need replacement, it's the output tubes (which this model doesn't have, the output stage being transistorized) which are the ones that generally wear out. A 12ax7 can be good for upwards of tens of thousands of hours. I wouldn't just preemptively replace them. | ||
| Post# 1047537 , Reply# 22 10/12/2019 at 14:46 (1,656 days old) by firedome (Binghamton NY & Lake Champlain VT) | ||
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capacitors...
my old eyes can't read that fuzzy SAMS chart off the screen but it's generally the electrolytic filter/coupling caps that are the most trouble prone and can leak, needing replacement, damaged transformers can result: $$$. You wouldn't necessarily need to immediately replace everything - that's where the labor can really mount up! The caps themselves need not be expensive ones, the "boutique" caps aren't necessary. We typically use Illinois or Sprague "orange drops".
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Post# 1047582 , Reply# 24 10/13/2019 at 06:41 (1,655 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc) |
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I can go along here-low level tubes can last for a few thousand hrs -not "tens of thousands of hrs".These low level audio tubes can get noisey,lose gain and get microphonic as they age.Didn't see these tubes in TV's- they were used in Hi-fi amps,G fiddle amps,some mixer consoles and other audio gear. | ||
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Post# 1047583 , Reply# 25 10/13/2019 at 06:44 (1,655 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc) |
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The tube checkers I like are the Hickok ones the best out there.Have some militarized ones here at the transmitter plant.Hickock testers are highly sought after by tube fans.The military grade ones came in heavy metal cases not the wood cases of the civilian models-both are excellent. | ||
| Post# 1047622 , Reply# 27 10/13/2019 at 17:47 (1,655 days old) by firedome (Binghamton NY & Lake Champlain VT) | ||
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my POINT was...
that tubes should not be replaced out of hand, many good tubes with plenty of useful life left are cavalierly and needlessly tossed away. Of course the best tester is often the circuit it is used in, and testers themselves can vary greatly in the quality and accuracy of tests performed, especially as they get older. Alan Douglas' (RIP) seminal volume ""Tube Testers and Classic Electronic Test Gear" is considered the first and last word on the subject.
There have been documented cases of Telefunken ECC81/82/83 (12A_7 series) tubes performing well at 100,000 hours in certain monitored military/commercial applications. Obviously, life span can vary by type; circuit and application are also variables. Our Hickok/WE KS-15874-L2 CardMatic is one of the best/most accurate testers ever, but it has it's limitations, and like all scientific instruments it must be calibrated every so many years to maintain accuracy. Here's one not working &/or currently out of calibration, which is pretty typical: https://www.ebay.com/c/1018669263... The moral of the story is: Don't just throw tubes away, some types are not made any longer and never will be again. Diagnose with an accurate tester first. | ||
| Post# 1048205 , Reply# 28 10/20/2019 at 09:37 (1,648 days old) by cg223710 (Ohio) | ||
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Cleaning it out So i grabbed the cleaner and sprayed out my pots, but i’m having trouble figuring out how to lubricate the turntable. All the videos i’ve found have shown the turntable popping off quite easy and I can’t even remotely figure mine out. Any suggestions ? CLICK HERE TO GO TO cg223710's LINK
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| Post# 1048223 , Reply# 29 10/20/2019 at 12:09 (1,648 days old) by cfz2882 (Belle Fourche,SD) | ||
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looks like there is a white o-ring that needs removed from it's groove before the turntable can pull up. | ||
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Post# 1048263 , Reply# 30 10/20/2019 at 19:38 (1,648 days old) by kenwashesmonday (Carlstadt, NJ) |
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Yes, the white o-ring on the spindle needs to come off.
For reference, that is a V-M (Voice of Music) 1200 series record changer, wearing a GE disguise. | ||
| Post# 1048309 , Reply# 31 10/21/2019 at 12:45 (1,647 days old) by cg223710 (Ohio) | ||
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Did you watch the videos I attached above? I read earlier about how the sound could be due to bad capacitors, but I just want to make sure! Also, does that mean that someone switched out the turntable? Could that be causing me issues as well? Thanks! | ||
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Post# 1048312 , Reply# 32 10/21/2019 at 13:16 (1,647 days old) by kenwashesmonday (Carlstadt, NJ) |
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That is a VM record changer made for GE with GE styling and a GE cartridge. GE used VM record changers, along with a few Garrard changers, until about 1964 when they began making their own. | ||
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Post# 1048436 , Reply# 33 10/22/2019 at 15:33 (1,646 days old) by reactor (Oak Ridge, Tennessee-- ) |
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changer lube
Hi Cara,
Yes, that is a VM changer as I had mentioned,previously. The next year GE began using Glasser-Steers designed changers, as they had purchased the company. The white retainer ring around the spindle will move up on the spindle. Unlike most changers, that model of VM does not use a metal clip ring to hold the platter down.. This white ring does not need to be un-clipped from a groove. Simple take a small slotted screwdriver and CAREFULLY put it under the edge of the retainer and push upward. Once you get it up high enough, you can continue to push it up the spindle with your fingers, it will slide and roll its way up. It is a flexible polymer ring, that VM used so be careful not to cut in in half with the screw driver. Then carefully take the platter in your fingers and move it up the spindle. It may take a little rocking back and forth before it will slide. Use caution as there is a metal washer and beneath that a ball bearing ring. They sometimes will stick to the bottom of the gear at the base of the platter, especially if the grease has hardened. | ||
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