Thread Number: 81080
/ Tag: Other Home Products or Autos
Boosting the furnace |
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Post# 1050980 , Reply# 2   11/14/2019 at 07:19 (1,624 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Most physicians recommend at least two or more hours after eating before lying down. Especially as one gets older otherwise it tends to promote gastric reflux.
Leaving that aside for now.... OP, your home/apartment was designed to be heated by steam (or hot water) rads. It seems sadly your situation is a common one; when steam or hot water is replaced by forced air the home should have had a new heating estimate done. This is needed to calculate proper sized heating replacement requirements. Steam or hot water heat especially with cast iron rads gives off heat even after boiler has shut down (thermostat satisfied). They also heat by radiation (warming objects) and convection (warming air). With forced air heating it is either on or off. Once the blowers stop things begin to cool down. Also lacking radiant heat of rads the place soon feels cold. You can (and should) make sure windows are sealing properly when closed, and around the sill/frame. Don't think your LL is going to reinstall a boiler and rads for steam or hot water heating, so you'll have to consider other options. A nice fluffy eider down duvet should keep you warm while sleeping. In fact some are so toasty people stick their feet out from underneath to keep cool. Other than that an electric blanket does sound like a good investment. I'd lay in a supply of flannel pajamas and maybe heavy socks as well. Socks are for sleeping in as well as walking around home with cold floors. |
Post# 1050985 , Reply# 3   11/14/2019 at 09:38 (1,624 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)   |   | |
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Post# 1050993 , Reply# 5   11/14/2019 at 10:19 (1,624 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK)   |   | |
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Which is better than an electric blanket as its lighter and the whole duvet is warmed up half an hour before you go to bed and its toasty :)
As said above find a bear to sleep with I have one and although we have NO heat in our room at all we both end up with our feet out the duvet. Do you have such government schemes where they subsidise the cost of insulation so your LL only gets a small bill to pay and you would then have warmer walls? Good luck hope you manage to at least stay comfortable. Austin |
Post# 1050995 , Reply# 6   11/14/2019 at 10:22 (1,624 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )   |   | |
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I would DIE I keep mine on 68 I HATE heat in summer and REALLY hate it in winter! |
Post# 1050999 , Reply# 7   11/14/2019 at 10:48 (1,624 days old) by Searsbest (Attleboro, Ma)   |   | |
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Post# 1051000 , Reply# 8   11/14/2019 at 10:53 (1,624 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK)   |   | |
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works out to 66 Fahrenheit and we leave it at that. The stat is now in the kitchen which at night is the coldest room in the house. It was in the living room but the air con kept making the heating run lol
I am just too fat to have it any hotter my poor mum who has a similar build to Olive Oyl has a separate heater to warm her room up I go in some days its like the tropics.... Austin |
Post# 1051051 , Reply# 12   11/14/2019 at 19:30 (1,623 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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Well, Thomas, when in Rome, as they say.
As soon as the temps up here (SF area) dropped where I started closing the windows and doors at night to keep the cold air out (during the summer I used the usually cold night air to cool down the house), I started wearing sweats at night (and during the day, for that matter). I STRONGLY recommend getting used to wearing something to bed. Like Dorothy, you're not in Kansas (well, Brazil) any more and either you have to change or find a warmer clime. Although global warming is on the menu, it probably won't ever be as warm as Brazil here.
Plus, wearing PJ's or long johns or sweats to bed means your bed sheets etc will stay cleaner longer.
I do sympathize: in the last decades of her life, my mom lived in a nice rent controlled apartment in the SF Richmond district. It had steam heat, and the heat was paid for by the landlord. But, when the system had a problem, instead of fixing it, the landlord decommissioned it and installed inadequate space heaters in all the apartments. Her heater was located in the entrance hallway of her apartment, which was closest to the front door and the bath, but nowhere near the living room or the bedroom. The steam heat radiator used to be in the living room close by her bedroom. She'd spend a lot of her time standing at the end of that hallway by that gas heater, and complained about the cost of the gas to heat the place. There was nothing to be done, it supposedly was the only spot such a heater could go. Supposedly. And for sure the landlord ran the numbers and realized he'd save money by installing cheap gas heaters in the apartments instead of continuing to keep the steam system alive and paying for that heat without recompense.
When I was younger we lived in a number of flats in SF where the sole heat was one of those floor gas heaters. The exception was when we moved to the "Stonestown Apartments" the last year of my high school days. That place had hot water heating. Often I'd keep my window open because we were on the second floor and I found it too hot - even though we were out by the ocean and in the fog belt. There was a little chain you could pull on the heater that supposedly controlled the hot water flow. It didn't seem to have any effect, LOL.
When I lived in Berkeley as a student, one house actually had a gas space heater in each bedroom. Apparently the tenants before me had raised holy hell with the landlord and used legal methods to force them to install those heaters. A later house I lived in, alone, had a single wall heater on the first floor by the stairs. It really was inadequate to heat the first floor, but the bedrooms up stairs stayed comfortable. Cause, you know, heat rises. I also stuck a fan on the stairs to help blow heat around the first floor, which sort of worked.
This house now, I own, and it has forced air central heating. The first winter it ran almost continuously on winter nights, and the gas bills showed it. Single story, with no insulation above the ceiling in the low attic. As soon as I could, I insulated the attic "floor", and also sealed off all the air leaks I could find (there were a LOT). Also insulated under the first floor in the crawl space, which help a lot also. After that my gas bill (and usage) was 1/2 of what it was the previous winter, and the furnace didn't run all night, even on the coldest nights. I even insulated the heating ducts and the return air duct under the house.
These days I keep the thermostat at 66F, and it's fine for me - albeit with sweats on most of the time. The windows are single pane, aluminum framed, but I did renew the "mouse fur" strips at the joins so they don't leak air as much as before. I'll have to look for the 3M winterizing stuff. I've seen (and used) it before. What I don't like is that it involves using cheezy double sided tape to affix the plastic to the window frames. I'd rather build some wooden frames and figure out some way to attach those to the windows, instead. Probably on the interior.
I gather arctic exploration is not on your menu ;-)...
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Post# 1051072 , Reply# 14   11/15/2019 at 00:39 (1,623 days old) by RP2813 (Sannazay)   |   | |
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That can backfire on you. My FWB is furry all over and as much as we like to spoon and cuddle, he says I run too hot for him and usually can't last more than a few minutes. During the summer he has his bedroom AC set to 64.
I'm looking forward to cold nights, which is totally out of character for me, but I have my priorities.
Oil filled electric radiators work really well. I have one in my office room so I don't have to heat the whole house with the forced air system, and considering the circumstances, the last room I want to heat is the master bedroom. |
Post# 1051131 , Reply# 16   11/15/2019 at 12:13 (1,623 days old) by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.)   |   | |
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I’ve lived in Northern Calif. all my life and during most of my life I’ve lived in apartments and houses without forced air heating. All of the apts. and cottages I rented from 1970 thru 1987 had either gas wall or space heaters or electric baseboard heaters. In fact 4 of these dwellings didn’t even have gas heaters with a thermostat or a pilot light. I had to carefully turn on the gas and quickly light it. I could adjust the flame up or down, but that was the extent of the control I had on the heat. A few times I fell asleep with the heater on and awoke thinking I was burning up.
I got used to wearing more clothes in the house during the fall and winter, long pants, crew neck sweatshirts or sweaters. And an electric blanket is a godsend. The older ones were better, because they would really warm the bed before I got in it if I turned it one about 1/2 hr before. Most of the newer electric blankets don’t heat like this anymore. We now have a wonderful Sunbeam Heated mattress pad, and this really heats up the bed. You mentioned earlier that you had a Heated Mattress pad and were contemplating also getting an Electric Blanket to use with it. Some other posters suggested the same thing. Don’t do this! You can only use one or the other at the same time, not both. And for my money the heated mattress pad is the better choice. And pair it with either a couple of good fleece blankets or a heavy down comforter, this should keep you warm. And I know you like to sleep in the raw for the freedom of movement, How about trying an old fashioned flannel nightshirt. They aren’t especially sexy, but you can still free b*ll and keep your upper body warm. LL Bean sells some nice ones. I’ve not seen your apartment, you mention that the LL covered up radiators and installed the two sided wall heater that you now have. Now its possible that these radiators were originally for steam heat, especially if the apt. was built in the 20’s,30’s or 40’s, but in Southern Calif. steam heat wasn’t as prevalent as in other areas of the country or N. Calif., and even in N. Calif. steam heat was fairly rare, except in larger apartment buildings, office buildings, schools and hospitals in larger cities. I suspect that these radiators may have been electric baseboard heaters. You can still buy an electric baseboard heater, plug it into a wall outlet and place it under the window. If you keep the door closed and turn it up high enough you should be able to achieve the level of heat you desire and maintain it fairly constantly. But this will be expensive. You did discover that using a fan directed at the heat coming from the wall heater helps to distribute the heat more effectively, thats exactly what we used to do in the last home we lived in with gas space heat. But this type of heater has never been known for all around heating comfort. You either fry you ass off if you’re close to it, or freeze it off if you are further away from the source of heat. The one other suggestion I have, which I believe I suggested several months ago to you on another thread about your wall heater, is to get a Dyson Heater Fan. It will cost you about $300.00 and it will be money well spent. These heater fans oscillate, have a thermostat that you can set for the temp you desire to maintain, have a remote control, and the fan speed can be adjusted up or down, and of course can be used during the summer for cooling too. One of these heater fans in a closed bedroom will get your room as hot as you want and maintain that heat. Hope that you can eventually get warm. I’m always cold too, and can’t stand the cold. When we had the power outage a few weeks ago I thought I would freeze to death each morning. Eddie cadetheat.com/products/baseboard... www.amazon.com/Dyson-Focu... |
Post# 1051142 , Reply# 17   11/15/2019 at 14:21 (1,623 days old) by RP2813 (Sannazay)   |   | |
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Considering all of the electric powered augmentation that has been mentioned, either already in use or as potential additions to the current (NPI) mix, I would suggest making sure the wiring in your old building can support it.
The entire electrical system in my 1922 house was upgraded to modern standards before I bought it, and I still wouldn't plug in all of the heating appliances that you're using. |
Post# 1051144 , Reply# 18   11/15/2019 at 14:28 (1,623 days old) by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.)   |   | |
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A king size heated mattress pad draws about 375 watts max and an electric space heater draws 1500 watts max, so unless there were a lot of other electric appliances also in use on the same circuit you should be OK, but Ralph does make a very good point about not overloading the circuits in an older dwelling.
Eddie |
Post# 1051152 , Reply# 20   11/15/2019 at 15:15 (1,623 days old) by LowEfficiency (Iowa)   |   | |
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>> The front house looks like a furnace show room. It has a giant octopus heater (coal), radiators under the windows >> (also deactivated), gas floor heaters (a giant square in the middle of the living room floor and also those jurassic >> ones that go part on the floor and part up the wall, two tall Williams wall heaters like mine, a shorter one that >> looks like a radiator but "square" and finally a forced air gas furnace which was installed 4 years ago. The >> landlord says the old furnaces were left because of the holes on the walls if they were removed. Do you have any pictures of these? Without seeing them, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that removing all of that has absolutely nothing to do with leaving holes in the wall, but rather that there is asbestos in/on/around them. The timeline, age, types of heating, etc, would almost guarantee it. |
Post# 1051155 , Reply# 21   11/15/2019 at 15:38 (1,623 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)   |   | |
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Post# 1051158 , Reply# 22   11/15/2019 at 16:10 (1,623 days old) by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.)   |   | |
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the reason you can't use an electric blanket on the same bed with an heated mattress pad is because the owners manuals of both say that this is something you shouldn’t do! And I for one think that this is good advice to follow.
Our heated mattress pad has 20 heat settings, the highest setting I’ve ever used was 15 and it was hella hot after a while, normally I use 5 to 7 on nights in the high 30’s, if it gets into the 20’s then I’ll bump it up to maybe 12. And if I wake up with a cold flash, I’m prone to getting cold in my sleep, I just hit the preheat button which turns it on high for about 20 mins., then goes back to what ever the heat setting was. One thing I learned about heated mattress pads, is don’t place another regular mattress pad on top of it. You’ll defeat the whole purpose of the heated pad. I’ve had many electric blankets over the past 40 plus years, and hands down the heated pad is much more effective. Sometimes its worth spending more than you want to spend to get the comfort you desire, only you can make that determination. But bottom line, shoes cost money, and so does staying warm. The $300 for a Dyson heater will give you years of warmth. But an electric baseboard heater will cost less, and use more electricity, it six of one and half a dozen of another. I’m surprised that your building did have steam heat originally. I didn’t think that this was used much in SoCal, you learn something everyday. Eddie |
Post# 1051171 , Reply# 24   11/15/2019 at 19:53 (1,622 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Due to diffiulty getting them out, and or the resulting issues (holes, gaps, etc...) that will be created.
Often for buildings both large and small boilers, furnaces, etc are installed soon after foundations are completed. Thus the building goes up around the things which is fine. Except when or if it comes time to remove, it may not be easy. If there is a door from basement then things can be cut apart into smaller manageable bits, then taken out that way. For larger or even small buildings sometimes a wall is cut or removed entirely to take out and bring in new. The gas heaters may have been installed as a supplement to coal "Octopus" heating, and or for use during shoulder periods. Unlike modern gas or oil fueled boilers/furnaces once you light a coal fire it is basically "on" until it goes out. You can control things to an extent via dampers, but you've still got a fire giving off heat. It often was an ordeal getting a good fire, so once it was going last thing anyone wanted was for it to go out. Thus you didn't fire up coal boilers/furnace until sure cold weather was pretty much around to stay. That is if it was 40F one day or night, but predicted 60F a few days later, you really didn't want to build a fire. To take chill off during shoulder seasons (late fall into early winter, or late spring into early summer) people often used other means of heating instead of main boiler/furnace. This way they didn't have to mess about with trying to control a fire. This or worse constantly building one, allowing it to go out, then starting over again a few days later. |
Post# 1051174 , Reply# 25   11/15/2019 at 20:26 (1,622 days old) by RP2813 (Sannazay)   |   | |
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Thomas, the added-on den at our previous house was both sunken and had a high vaulted ceiling, and it was heated by a gas wall unit. Unlike most wall heaters, it was mounted about 18" above the floor. Without anything to circulate the air, while standing in the opening above the two steps down into the room, well away from the wall heater, your shoulders would be above the inversion layer and you'd get a blast of heat from there up.
I used a fan something like you described having at a 45 degree angle in front of your wall heater -- just a little plastic 10" Vornado -- and stuck it in a corner of the room aiming straight up, set to the lowest speed. I had it on an appliance timer that could be set for it to run for 15 minutes at 15 minute intervals. That was enough to equalize the temperature throughout the entire den space.
Instead of placing the fan where you have it, try what I did and see if it helps. It's very cost-effective.
And, from what it sounds like, you live in an interesting part of town. Can you provide some references like major streets or freeways? |
Post# 1051176 , Reply# 26   11/15/2019 at 20:43 (1,622 days old) by wayupnorth (On a lake between Bangor and Bar Harbor, Maine)   |   | |
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Yes Laundress, my father told me how they kept our old Octopus going. By the time I came along they had an oil burner. He never used coal until December and just wood. I owned a 1868 house with a coal stove in the far end and his wisdom worked. Dont fire it up until it was staying cold and the first time it gets 40ish, the fire went out when the chimney draft stops, usually end of March. Much as I hate coal it is ALOT easier than the pellet stuff they use today and pellet stoves dont work when the power goes out but coal stoves work. Oil boiler and gas backup is as easier as it gets here.
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Post# 1051209 , Reply# 27   11/16/2019 at 01:38 (1,622 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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Uninsulated walls seem to the norm in California, even in the SF Bay Area, at least in older construction. Oddly, this house was originally built in 1941, and has plaster/lathe interior walls, and a stucco exterior. There's a master bed/bath addition at the back, probably put in during the 60's or 70's. It has the more modern drywall construction, and there seems to be some fiberglass insulation behind it, but it is the coldest part of the house, usually a degree cooler, despite forced air heating. I suspect the old plaster/lathe walls insulate better than modern drywall. It's not a big problem, since like most people (except those from Brazil) I prefer a slightly cooler bedroom. But it does make getting up in the mornings during the winter a little more challenging.
The one thing I really can't stand is waking up in the middle of the night feeling too warm, and having to throw off covers. I have tried electric blankets or mattress pads, but find them too much bother. Although running the pad for an hour before retiring can make the bed more comfortable.
One thing I'd recommend if Thomas doesn't already have it, is to have programmable thermostat. They are not expensive and simple to install. And can save $$$ on energy, assuming you can stand not having the heater running full blast 7x24.
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Post# 1051301 , Reply# 29   11/16/2019 at 23:21 (1,621 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Sounds like previous larger (Victorian?) home was torn down (for whatever reasons), and something new was built upon old foundations. That and or some major gut renovation work was done that drastically altered former structure.
Sounds like you have a classic old Ruud instant water heater. We've discussed them before on AW. See: www.automaticwasher.org/c... www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/... Those units actually were quite efficient. Something along lines of 83% or so if not more. Mr. Ruud (yes there actually was such a person) knew a few things about heating and cold.... Many do not realize that natural gas was available in many parts of USA by early in last century if not from late in previous. Homes/buildings in areas where NG or coal (city) gas available often switched from coal or other solid fuel for heating or cooking. Of course it was usually the well off that chose gas over say coal because they had homes with all latest mod cons. If you lived in a climate with really cold tap water two of those Ruud (or other I suppose) water heaters could be run in tandem; though from what one understands just one unit was more than capable of giving out 130F or higher water from incoming temp at around 50F or so. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwin_Ruud... Instant water heaters suited homes in early part of last century because most personal hygiene, house work, laundry, etc... was done by filling various basins, buckets, tubs, etc... with water. There were showers of course, but there you are. Some homes or other places used Ruud or other instant water heaters with a storage tank. This way during high demand one never ran out of hot water, and hopefully avoided the "cold sandwich" which comes when heater cannot keep up with demand. Above duplicates mostly what you can get with a boiler for hot water or steam heat and a "coil" run off boiler to a water "heater". In effect using the boiler to provide "free" on demand hot water. |
Post# 1051306 , Reply# 30   11/17/2019 at 00:19 (1,621 days old) by RP2813 (Sannazay)   |   | |
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Well Thomas, it sounds like your neighborhood has some of the best and the worst of L.A. I will admit that I've not had much reason to venture very far south of the city center, other than to events at the Shrine Auditorium.
My sister lives in Glassell Park (near the bottom end of the 2 Freeway, south of the 134) back behind Dodger Stadium. It's very much a "transitional" neighborhood. I like how she is located between downtown L.A. and Pasadena, which are desirable arts and entertainment destinations, and how many original homes have survived in that area. A couple of homes up the road behind her house there is one of those '20s staircases down to the block below hers, as seen on TV/movies. I've spent time sitting at the top of those steps and enjoying the view of Griffith Observatory on the next ridge over to the west. I may be a Bay Area native, but I love L.A. Maybe not more, but I love it there. And yes, I've worked and commuted there, so mine is not some la la perspective.
It would be great if you got the front house and could steer the LL toward affordable fixtures and finishes that at least don't look cheap. The ReStore is your friend. |
Post# 1051307 , Reply# 31   11/17/2019 at 00:22 (1,621 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)   |   | |
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With all due respect, 86 degrees is NOT healthy.
Most people are comfy between 72 and 76 and a healthy humidity level around 30% suggestions: 1. see a doctor, you may have certain vitamin deficiencies, such as Vit D. A lot of people do. A lack of vit D tends to make people feel tired, makes it difficult to sleep, makes ones bones achy, makes one feel cold, as well as other problems. You may need a supplement or to change your diet. 2. You're going to damage your health keeping temperatures that high. 3. You could well cause a fire with that many heat sources running. 4. you might try adding a humidifier in your home. S. Calif. typically has little humidity and even when it's 100 degrees, it will be tolerable to a typical person because of the low humidity. On the other hand, a place with 70 degree and high humidity of say 75% can make it feel like it's 90 degrees. 5. Move to a decent apartment that is well insulated and not drafty. A constant draft can affect one's well being because you feel you can't control your environment. 6. If all else fails, consider seeing a therapist as there may be other underlying problems. good luck to you. |
Post# 1051358 , Reply# 33   11/17/2019 at 12:17 (1,621 days old) by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.)   |   | |
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“I'm actually trying to run away from electric. During the summer, electricity is more expensive because of the air conditioners (2 brand new 12k btu Kenmore smart window units) that run almost 24/7. They work beautifully, but if I touch the external walls in the summer i can feel them cold (so my temperature loss is absurdly high because of the lack of insulation). During the winter the gas bill skyrockets. So if I can manage to reduce or eliminate the use of electric heating sources, it can be great. “
I’ve been wondering for the past few days why you would need to have the temp up to 86 F in the winter, if during the summer you say you run the AC 24/7? It would seem that if cold was really such a problem for you, then I would imagine that logically, you would enjoy the LA summer heat, and have little, if any need for AC during the heat of the summer. I personally am most comfortable with our home being at a constant 70 to 72 degrees. We don’t have AC, and in the summer, due to the many tall trees around our home providing shade the downstairs stays in this range almost all the time, upstairs is another story, and it can get up to 80 F in the afternoon during hot days, and thats way too hot for moi. During the fall and winter, I set the thermostats in each room to about 68 F and this maintains a constant 70 to 72 F, which is comfortable. while wearing appropriate warmer winter clothing and socks. I can’t imagine being in 86 F heat and liking it. My family only lived in one home during my childhood with forced air heating, and my Mom was like you, liked the house to be hot. I can recall my Dad coming home from work one evening and Mom had the thermostat up to 80 F. My Dad said, “Jesus Christ Bettie, wadda you think you’re doin’, growin’ Orchids in here!”. If you really need the temp up to 86F during the winter I agree with some of the other posters, perhaps you have a metabolic problem that you should check with your doctor about, cuz 86 F is hella hot! Eddie |
Post# 1051376 , Reply# 35   11/17/2019 at 14:26 (1,621 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Without proper insulation and a few other things nearly any building is going to become quite warm indoors during summer if you keep windows closed.
Can leave ours closed most of the day with heavy drapes shut, and things remain cool well into the evening. But that is with turning on AC say around 11PM and leaving it on until next morning. In short once place has cooled keep it that way by restricting (much as possible) heat from entering. Either you or landlord really should pony up for a home energy inspection. Sometimes local utility companies will offer things for free or at reduced rates. Other than that look around for a good deal. It really does sound as if your home/apartment doesn't have much insulation, which is common for older buildings. Things that went up when energy prices were "cheap" people didn't care as much about heating costs. If you got chilly just turn up the thermostat. From early in last century until rather recently there also was a "ventilation" movement. Sparked by the 1916 flu pandemic people believed in fresh air, even in winter. Thus buildings were either designed or required by code to have heating systems capable of keeping indoor temps at say 70F even in dead winter with windows opened, and or they were "drafty" by construction intent. Again the idea was that fresh air prevented one from catching the flu (it doesn't).... When your LL ripped out the previous hot water or steam heating system with rads it really sounds as if no one sat down and gave serious thought to how much heating is required. An energy audit would have arrived at proper sizing of a new furnace or whatever heating system that replaced previous. |
Post# 1051384 , Reply# 37   11/17/2019 at 15:51 (1,621 days old) by LowEfficiency (Iowa)   |   | |
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Thomas, I'm wondering if maybe part of the problem is a difference of measurements? The winter temperature setting, 86-90 degrees and desiring warmer, is way warmer than typical... and the summer setting of 75-80, while relatively normal sounding, does seem to be way too cool for your otherwise stated preference for warmer temperatures. Perhaps one or more of your units has a faulty or miscalibrated thermostat? Or perhaps the fact that each thermostat is independent and located in different areas means they aren't giving a true reflection of the actual temperature in your living space? Before doing anything else, I'd get a good reliable thermometer, and place it in different areas of your home... particularly in the middle of rooms and not near the floor or ceiling... each time giving it a half hour or so to stabilize. That will give you some data points on the *actual* temps, not just what the temp is along a wall, by a window, etc... especially given the current close proximity of the thermostats to their respective heating/cooling devices. It could very well be that you don't actually like the temp at 86+... that simply you have to set your thermostat to those temps to get the rest of your apartment to, say, the 78 that you'd like. |
Post# 1051401 , Reply# 39   11/17/2019 at 17:40 (1,620 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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Eddie,
You're lucky that your house is shaded by trees and stays cool enough in the summer. Most of the summer here at this house, I have to shut all the windows in the morning and pull the shades on the south and west sides. That's because the long side of the house faces west, and faces a paved (concrete) courtyard that reflects a lot of heat. I planted a line of shade trees along the property line about 15 years ago, and they've grown to 20 feet or so, but they are not close enough to shade the house in the heat of the day. At night I open the windows and sometimes run fans as well, to pull in cool night air to cool everything down. This way the interior of the home stays in the 70's , sometimes into the 80's on really hot days, such as when it's 100 outside. Adding insulation to the attic seems to have helped a lot to prevent heat from the roof radiating down to the living quarters below. I have a small portable A/C unit in the family room that I can run when it gets unbearable; this last summer I think I ran it for just a few of the hottest nights.
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Post# 1051406 , Reply# 40   11/17/2019 at 18:31 (1,620 days old) by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.)   |   | |
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Rich,
Believe me, we know how lucky we are! I’ve lived in over 23 places since I moved out on my own in 1970 when I was 19, and we’ve lived here for 25 years now. I’ve never been happier in any other home I’ve lived in. The grounds are beautiful, and every window in the house has a view of trees. And these trees provide that cooling shade for the downstairs. It stays so cool that on days where its still 80 outside, in the afternoon when the sun is no longer shining on the front of the house I often will put on a sweat shirt in the late afternoon because it’s so cool downstairs. Now the upstairs is quite a different story, on hot days by the late afternoon its pretty hot upstairs. But the lovely ocean breeze that we get at least 350 evenings a year comes up when the sun starts to set and if we open up all the windows upstairs it cools right down. We do have 3 Dyson fans and those fans move the air around enough to keep us cool and comfortable on all but the hottest days of a heat wave. The complex was built in 1980, and the insulation is minimal, but there is some. I’m not certain of the R rating, but probably only what code required in 80’. We did have a pipe leak in the wall of the living room where the main water line enters the home in 1998. The plumber needed to remove a 12”X12” section of sheetrock to make the repair. I did the patch repair myself, so I know that there is insulation because I had to replace a section of it. I just purchased a scrap piece at Home Depot along with a scrape piece of sheetrock, 3 ft. of 2”X3/3” scrape lumber, some sheetrock screws, tape, plaster and a can of spray texture, because we have orange peel texture on the wall. I spent $13.66 for the materials and it took me about 2 hrs total over 2-3 days to finish, and I’d never done it before, just learned how by watching a DIY TV program. And no one can even tell that it was patched. The HOA reimbursed me for my cost. My next door neighbor had the same repair done the next year, and the HOA paid $175.00 for the patch, I know because I’ve been on the HOA board for 24 years. Anyway, sorry to digress, but having lived in N. Calif my whole life I know what you are experiencing in your home as far as comfort level during hot and cold weather. I think to a certain extent we notice it more now because the extremes of heat and cold are more dramatic than they were when our homes were built. Back in the old days, Bay Area weather was more temperate, therefore homes weren’t built for climate extremes. Also, at least for myself I’m 68 now, and 28 tolerates extreme cold and heat a whole lot better than 68, especially the cold if you have arthritis, and most of us in our 60’s have at least a little of the “room-a-tiz” as Granny Clampett used to say. Eddie This post was last edited 11/17/2019 at 19:19 |
Post# 1051419 , Reply# 41   11/17/2019 at 20:04 (1,620 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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Eddie,
What gets me is that from my experience here, the old plaster and lathe walls seem to have better insulating value than the newer drywall walls, even when there is fiberglass between the drywall and outer wall.
There is one difference: the crawl space under the addition has more ventilation than the older part of the house. So that may be a factor... but I made sure to heavily insulate the attic and under the floor in the addition to compensate for the increased ventilation. The older part of the house has markedly less crawl space ventilation. It seems to work OK, as there never seems to be any dampness down there. One reason is that the front part of the house - the part facing the street - has a tall foundation, triangular in shape, that acts like a buttress against the soil in front. In other words, no cripple wall on that side, so no vents. And the vents on the east side of the older part of the home are reduced in number, as they are blocked by a variety of constructions, such as a fireplace, a half bath, stairs, water heater, and the patio kitchen counter. It all works out to about 225 sq ft of '41 house per sq ft of foundation vent, vs. 61 sq ft of addition per sq ft of foundation vent. The addition crawl space is open (save for an open cripple wall) to the main house crawl, so there must be some compensating air circulation between the two. But the probable deficient part is that the entire north-east corner of the house has no foundation venting. There's about 30 feet of the east side, and about 26 feet of the north side, without any foundation venting. It is perhaps not as bad as it sounds since the shed roofing over the half bath and patio kitchen tends to keep that side of the house perfectly dry. But still, if I were to address this I'd add a couple of foundation vents to the northeast corner of the structure. I helped compensate for the lack of venting by laying down polyethylene tarp on the exposed dirt in the entire crawl space, which should reduce moisture intrusion from the earth (where I gather a lot of foundation/moisture originates). I also installed full perimeter strip venting in the roof soffits, where little to none existed before. That, along with the attic floor insulation, likely helps keep the living quarters cooler in the summer heat.
Hey, it all beats a soggy sleeping bag in the park. ;-)
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Post# 1051424 , Reply# 43   11/17/2019 at 20:19 (1,620 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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That's probably a good idea, with the attic opening. I could probably work up a frame to house a cheap window box fan to do the same. But the soffit vents also serve the same purpose, to keep the attic cool, more or less. They are combined with roof vents higher on the roofing, although from my reading it appears an attic can be adequately vented with just soffit venting.
I have accumulated a fair amount of firewood from managing trees on the property. It's fairly well aged now. The problem in this area are the frequent "no burn" days designed to keep the air quality from degrading from wood smoke during cold windless weather. Just the nights when a cozy wood fire would seem best. Ah, the price we pay to live in a supposed paradise.
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Post# 1051429 , Reply# 44   11/17/2019 at 20:46 (1,620 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)   |   | |
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I think I need to thoroughly read up in this topic... My wife is the one who complains about being cold, but when I am mostly in charge of the thermostat in interest of saving energy, I find myself going from what I think is a cold house, to making things sweltering...!
So, to, wit, here, in;S-E Michigan is where our thermostat is set: Making me wonder, as our furnace is just now kicking on, wondering why o complaint from the wife about the cold that I’m feeling, to my relief I’m hearing her (the furnace);starting up, providing warmth not her (my wife) starting up about the (her) typical lack of... — Dave
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Post# 1051454 , Reply# 45   11/18/2019 at 02:02 (1,620 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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Not sure what that thermostat is, but if it's not programmable, my suggestion is to get a programmable model. I program my Lux 1500 to start at 5 or 6 pm to heat the house to 67F, then at 11:30 pm it goes down to 64. Depending on my schedule, it starts up again in the morning to 67, then ratchets down to 64 for the day. The thing has separate routines for weekdays and Sat and Sun, as well. The main difference I make for the weekend is a later morning startup time. It takes the millivolt signal from the heater pilot, as well as a couple of internal AA batteries that last at least a year. Of course it can be overridden if someone starts raising a ruckus about the temperature, and then it goes back to the schedule at the next time point, or it can be disabled completely. The Lux 1500, as I recall, was reasonably priced about 10 years ago at $25 or less. I would never go back to a manual thermostat.
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Post# 1051467 , Reply# 46   11/18/2019 at 06:07 (1,620 days old) by DometicSavant (Maryland )   |   | |
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Would it be possible to check into something like an injectable foam insulation? Could be a possible solution for walls with minimal to no insulation. |
Post# 1051618 , Reply# 48   11/19/2019 at 06:24 (1,619 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)   |   | |
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I grew up with the central gas heat set on 74. In the 70's energy crunch my dad built a chimney and put up a wood stove. We'd get used to that warmth and as winter dwindled down we'd take the stove down and store it in the room outside until next winter. We'd freeze using the gas heat after the stove was taken down. They no longer use wood in the house so keep the furnace set on 74. I like the comfort but it's hard to breathe since my own gas furnace is set on 72 and I've acclimated to that temp. I'm usually cold-natured. I wear 4 layers to work because we all know how cold it gets in hospitalsSummertime I keep the central AC at 76-77. |
Post# 1051696 , Reply# 50   11/20/2019 at 05:51 (1,618 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)   |   | |
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My living room, kitchen, and each bedroom all have 2 outside walls. Those rooms are significantly colder than the bathroom which has only one small outside wall. It's warmer in the bathroom. My house is insulated in the walls to 1956 standards but there's thicker insulation up in the attic that was added at some point by a previous owner. Frequently when we have cold nights and warm days and still need the AC in the day time, overnight it will still cycle the AC even though the outside temp may be in the mid 60's and the thermostat will be set at 76. Warmer inside than outside and causing the air to kick on. Can't open the windows at that time due to humidity and mugginess. Tony thought I was playing some kind of trick when the house was showing 74 degrees once and the Tstat was set on 72. "How can that be"? he asked me. |
Post# 1051703 , Reply# 51   11/20/2019 at 07:10 (1,618 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Post# 1051730 , Reply# 52   11/20/2019 at 13:44 (1,618 days old) by IowaBear (Cedar Rapids, IA)   |   | |
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