Another thread that needed to be rebuilt due to almost complete image loss. As usual, many thanks to our webmaster Robert for his help.

Images shown will have the original posted date.

11/19/2016

Come Monday, this baby is coming home to Brooklyn...

Feelin' smooth 'n slinky...

11/20/2016

Voice of Music record changer. Supposedly it needs a stylus according to the seller. I already located a site dedicated to VM.

http://www.thevoiceofmusic.com/...

11/22/2016

Well, it's home. Sort of. It's still in the truck. Damn COOP rules forbids bringing in any furniture after 5PM. Good Lord, what a long trip. The unit was located at Drums, Pennsylvania. A hamlet set beside very beautiful valley and mountain. They got hit with snow last night, so it was a winter wonderland. The sight of fields and trees glistening white in the sunlight was breathtaking. Thankfully all the roads were clear and dry.

I was blown twice into the emergency lane (By the wind you perv). Amazing cross winds yesterday along I-80. Talk about white knuckle driving.

After picking up the Philco (Christ is it HEAVY), I went to Arby's for a bite. Inside, I place my order, cashier says: "Your name sir?" "Louis". "OK sir, just listen for your name for your order."

I was the only customer there.  Cue in Twilight Zone theme.

When my order arrived, "Sir, your order." Wait, he was supposed to have called out my name! Harumph!

A couple other truisms I discovered on my quest for swank:

1) I need driving glasses. I swear, the sign on I-80 read "Scrotum 5" instead of "Scranton 5".

2) I actually found "Honeyhole Rd". If I weren't such a fag I might had gotten excited.

All said and done, with a side trip to do some thrifting (mighty slim pickings) I got home 12 hours later. I'll post pictures later today.

11/22/2016 vacerator

I almost lost my coffee,

but that was worth it Louie. I'm glad I'm not the only one on here with a different sense of humor. Glad you didn't make a wrong turn and end up in Intercourse Pa.
Near Kalamazoo, is a town named Climax.

11/22/2016 kb0nes

Wait, what forum is this? pervs...

Louis, not sure your vision needs correction, you may just suffer from selective seeing ;)

Awaiting photos of the inside of this treasure. I've been looking over schematics of it since you announced it (have to guess at the model though). Looks like it is pretty simple single-ended power amps. Doesn't appear to use the most common audio tubes that are in reproduction today though. They do seem to be common enough though.

11/22/2016 panthera

Philco had great cabinet design. They put together some very nice pieces of furniture.

Their working innards were, how to put this delicately, hmm. Let's say they could have taught GE a thing or three about saving money in parts sourcing.

Use of a V-M is a good thing, as that's enormously more reliable (and I say this as a Collaro fan) and 10^20 easier to work on. At least.

This console probably has the (in my opinion very good sounding) 3-channel circuit using the 6GM5 tubes. Not the most common, but available in sets. Paid about 80$ with shipping for a matched set last year, other online stores have them as non-matched for much less. The others were OK, so I didn't bother with them. Definitely a recap and I always check the resistors because, as I noted, Philco used many different suppliers, some of whom weren't too awfully bothered about component quality. Sort of the Klingon approach to sourcing starships - lowest bidder always got the job.

Prettier than Motorola, easier to work on than Zenith and I'm partial to 3-channel and V-M, so looking forward to following the progress.

11/22/2016 kb0nes

It does look like the 6GM5's have gotten a bit rare. The 7591's that were common in Scott and Eico and others are basically electrically identically but unfortunately (or fortunately?) have an 8-pin octal base. The 7591's are in reproduction now.

That "3-channel" circuit is an odd bird. Basically you end up with two single-ended amps driving the L/R bass blocked high range drivers, and a push pull "bass" driver.

The schematic I am looking at is the M-1741 model. Man I see a lot in there I would POoGE on... It would be interesting to make one of these sound kinda modern but I'd probably end up swapping all the speakers out.

11/22/2016 panthera

Solved two problems with one stone, so to speak.

First, done right it cut hum.

Second, humans can not orient low frequencies. Using one bass speaker saves on money, distortion, some phase problems, etc.

I've seen projects (antiqueradio.org?) using 7591s to replace 6GM5s. You'd have the space for the adapter socket in a console, but I do believe the power out would dip a bit, no?

But, heh - this is a beautiful, beautiful stereo. I'm so glad it's found a good home.

11/22/2016 LordKenmore

>That "3-channel" circuit is an odd bird. Basically you end up with two single-ended amps driving the L/R bass blocked high range drivers, and a push pull "bass" driver.

Actually, it's not totally odd. Maybe it is by console standards, but this speaker setup sounds very much like a modern sterero speaker + subwoofer combo... Admittedly, there are probably limits to this "subwoofer"--it probably won't go as low as a "real" subwoofer. Then, again, there are speaker systems with special, dedicated bass units in today's world that are labeled "subwoofer" but really don't have super deep bass.

>Second, humans can not orient low frequencies. Using one bass speaker saves on money, distortion, some phase problems, etc.

This is not entirely true...at least it's not true in the popular sense that you can throw a subwoofer where ever you feel like, and it will work. System integration/setup does matter, and someone I know who is an audio system professional (working with high end home audio) actually spells out acceptable locations for subwoofers.

Of course, on a console, the placement issues and system integration are pretty much taken care of by the maker. At least the driver placement on the console, amplifier choices, etc, etc, etc. The only issue is placing the console in one's home.

11/22/2016 kb0nes

My referring to the "3-channel" system being odd was the idea that you have a push-pull output transformer in a totem pole between the two single ended transformers. It is only 2 channels but this in an interesting way to break out a mono bass output. I have never encountered a circuit like this, but bear in mind I have never had any interest in consoles, heck I have never owned a component HiFi receiver!. I have only ever done separate components.

I added my first subwoofer in 1984, and I have never used more then a single sub with a mono-summed signal. I do agree that there is no way to localize the bass signal, assuming that the crossover is low enough. I have generally crossed over my sub between 60-80hz, you can't tell where it is in that bottom octave. If the sub ranges up to 200Hz or so you can localize it, particularly if it is well off to the side. In this console I'd bet that the bass driver has significant output up to 1Khz, but it doesn't matter since all the drivers are within a few feet of each other.

11/22/2016 kb0nes

You should be able to do a direct swap between the two tubes seamlessly assuming you can adapt the bases. The data sheets for both tubes show that they are all but identical in most every way. The 7591 has some slightly higher capacitances between elements, but that is likely due to the Octal base, at audio frequencies it won't matter. Power output would be basically the same within sample to sample variations between different tubes. The amp is cathode biased so there is no adjustment needed. It would be best to use matched pairs of tubes in this amp. I'd measure the voltage across the 82 ohm R78 to check the standing no-signal current through the tubes, probably should be around 15 volts to correspond to a 90ma bias current in each tube (assuming they are balanced).

There are adapters that have a 9-pin Noval plug that will plug into the existing sockets and then accept the 7591's Octal base.

It looks like the 6GM5's are still available, but you are limited to NOS so they may be costly. The 7591's have been reproduced to keep all those Scott and other vintage hifi components humming along, so their pricing may be more reasonable.

11/23/2016

NEVER to early for some SWANK.

 11/23/2016

Twin bulbs above the record player.

Couple of issues right off the bat. The stylus is there (flips from LP to 45), but no pick up. Record drops from changer, but then tone arms goes back to it's rest and record player turns off.

11/23/2016

The radio works.

Again some issues. Pulls in some FM stations, mostly clear, but with minor distortion. AM pulled in a few at first, then poof, nothing. Something must have burned out. Volume control was scratchy, but a few shots of DeOxit  and it improved greatly.  I sprayed all the POTS. I know, took a huge risk powering it on, but save for a very faint burning smell, it worked fine. No smoke, fire nor did the northeast plunge into darkness. Capacitors will have to be replaced. The channel selector seems ineffective, regardless what channel you you select.

11/23/2016

11/23/2016

"And who the hell is that whippersnapper???" Victor is not amused.

11/23/2016 panthera

I suggest you leave the V-M off until you can sort it. It's overdue for a lube job, anyway. Things slide ever so much better and no force is needed with proper lube. I believe that tonearm can track at 2grams, which is a good thing.*

If you need help with it, I've got some good youtube links and a service manual for that series (or close enough). General advice you can get here from many of us.

The burning smell is probably dust. Still, you don't want to burn out a tube because a capacitor was bad (and did I see some Sprague black beauties? They were notorious back in the day.) Or, worse, a transformer.

So yeah, recap and check resistors for values.

That'll probably make the tuner happy. I farm out alignment work myself, but then we all know I'm an idiot.

So, again, congratulations.

Consoles versus stand-alone: Once you get past a certain point in level of quality, you're only imagining that you hear the difference. I've heard these Philco units when they were in mint condition (as were my ears, cursed with perfect pitch). Except for a touch of wow and flutter and a bit less separation (again, perfect pitch), it sounded every bit as good as my parent's Macintosh and Dual with a V15 II. Which I was forbidden to even look at. 

The link is to a guy who recaps really fast and well. Of course, there's also the notorious Shango66, but some ladies find his language offensive. Personally, enjoy him.

*I'm well aware that cartridge doesn't track at 2grams, I said CAN, not DOES. Since it has to be replaced, anyway, it's worth looking into.

11/23/2016 vacerator

are beautiful. Do you know what company made the cabinet for the Philco? Drexel maybe?

11/23/2016 classiccaprice

I'm starting to miss mine. I didn't have the space to keep it, but it was a great stereo. It will bring you a lot of happiness. Mine was featured on Retro Renovation a few years back. You can see the link below.

11/23/2016 kbones

Great pictures Louie! It really is in amazingly good shape overall for being 53.

I'd start out by pulling out the chassis and cleaning everything and getting familiar with the lay of the land. Look at the tube labeling and try to determine if they are originals, if so it may not have a lot of run time. Go through with a DMM and measure resistances to insure they haven't drifted off too badly +/-10% of the schematic value is reasonable. When measuring resistances in circuit, be aware that other parallel paths through the circuit could add error to your measurements.

I'd wager that the only capacitors that you should initially replace are any of the electrolytic units, while I would likely replace all the cylindrical paper capacitors eventually, they aren't highly likely to be "bad" to the point of causing a problem. It looks like the electrolytics are C70, C71, C73 and the quad-section can C83. I would replace the can with 4 separate capacitors under the chassis if there is room to tuck them in there. There are some reproduction twist-lock can caps today but there aren't many choices in value's. The NOS parts are just old now so they are likely bad before they were ever used. I'd leave the can there for looks.

Personally I would have trouble simply restoring one of these, I'd just want to resto-mod it so badly. I have long been POoGE'ing (Progressive Optimization of Generic Electronics) classic HiFi gear. I'd end up swapping out all the speakers and would likely swap the tube rectifier for solid state etc. Speaker technology is so much better today then 50 years ago, but then again it would lose that character that it had in 1963. It could easily be made more accurate, but that may not entirely be the goal, some might say this would ruin it.

Best of luck with the project, there are a few folks here glad to provide advice and moral support as you go!

11/23/2016

Any Youtube link you can forward would be helpful. Loved the one you sent. Apparently, she's just not another pretty face. I'm willing to give a lube job, and tackle any other issue the V-M may have. Seems so solid and well made. I am far more mechanically inclined. Cap jobs, well, I'm a babe in the woods. Before I touch the Philco, I have about eight tube radios that need attention. If anything, at least I can learn something from those.

11/23/2016

Thanks Mike. I have no idea who manufactured the cabinet. It certainly is well made and beautiful. Whomever bought, and maintained this beauty has my heartfelt thanks.

11/23/2016 panthera

With purposeful upgrades. Just the opposite. I suspect, though, that doing the electrolytic caps, bringing the resisters back to tolerance (at 10% were not exactly talking extreme here) and thinking about updating the speakers is well within reason.

As to the cartridge, I'd definitely go with the necessary upgrades on the slide plate (that polyethane slider + ball bearing) and 2gram cartridge. This V-M might already have all of that, including the nylon take up for the cam. Or not. Stuff like this makes sense.

Given the things which really matter - transient response, soft clipping, really muted third order harmonics, I suspect the sound is going to be pretty damn good by any standards.

11/24/2016 panthera

First, Phil gave you some good advice. Here's some general tips:

1) Tubes are the second least likely component to fail. Mica capacitors basically never fail and given the role they play in alignment, shouldn't be touched unless necessary.

2) Electrolytic capacitors have two special concerns: 1) They're polarized, 2) They pack enough wallop to kill you. No kidding.

So - always make sure they're discharged before you work on them and pay close attention to polarity.

3) High voltage, enough to kill you or fry something is always present in a tube chassis. All American Five radios almost always have the metal chassis at 120v, whether on or off. That's dangerous. Know what you're doing before you work on them.

So - enough of the scary stuff. Basically, here's some useful stuff I've done throughout the years:

1) One component at a time. Take lots of photos. 

2) Don't unsolder the capacitors, just clip their leads and solder new ones in place. Why risk damaging board traces or other components?

3) Leave the big can in place and do unsolder its leads completely. You don't have to put the replacement electrolytics right under it, they can go anywhere there's room for them in the chassis, just shield the leads. 

V-M:

If you like, I'll send you a .pdf manual which will cover the components. There's links I'll add later (I'm cooking for Thanksgiving right now) showing how really good people work on them. But, again, some basics:

1) Do not, under any circumstances, use force. Those castings are not as strong as they look.

2) The switch at the back of the mechanism is expensive and sometimes the only way to replace a damaged one is to rob one from another changer. In short, don't remove it unless you have to. 

3) There's an astonishing number of little balls and springs waiting to jump out and disappear forever. 

4) The motor has to go back together the way it came apart, mark it (the voice of experience). Again, a snug screw and a drop of the lowest strength threadlock is infinitely preferable to too tight.

5) WD-40 is a wonderful cleaner for these. It is of zero value as lube.

6) High quality sewing machine oil or 3in1 in the BLUE tin not the RED tin is just right.

7) The tiniest amount of grease is necessary. I like to avoid lithium. I use high quality R/C grease from the model car/plane shops. It's just a bit thinner than Vasoline, which doesn't hold up to the heat - otherwise, it'd be ideal. We're talking about less than a match head of grease on any single component and none on any rubber parts or the trip system.

This is general stuff - by the time you've done those radios, you'll be ready for this. 

11/22/2019 camster

I have an old philco here, and not having any luck finding a schematic!

kbOnes in Post# 908082 , Reply# 22 seems you have what I'm looking for...any chance you could post the whole thing, or get me a copy?

Hi Cameron. You may find what your looking for in reply #14.

The Philco is still awaiting repairs alas. This is a perfect example of having way too much on your plate. Right now, I am focusing in getting 2 vintage refrigerators back in service.