Thread Number: 81549  /  Tag: Modern Dishwashers
Whirlpool-Maytag-KitchenAid dishwashers: 2020 Redesign
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Post# 1055820   12/28/2019 at 17:05 by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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I had a feeling this was coming. It's definitely quite different than the GlobalWash platform, but I also am not surprised to see that the CleanWater/MicroClean (spinning filter) wash system is now being adapted across the KitchenAid and Maytag lineup.

I'm keeping an open mind and would like to see more info and pictures on this platform. I am however a bit sad that this likely means the phase out of the current GlobalWash design, now that I've fallen in love over the years with that particular platform.


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Post# 1056104 , Reply# 1   1/1/2020 at 00:14 by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
Whirlpool line

I wonder if this will trickle into the whirlpool line as well.

Post# 1056129 , Reply# 2   1/1/2020 at 08:49 by imperial70 (******)        
watched the video

Sounds like the space to work on these is tighter than the current tall tub offerings. The instructor make it look easy to install. I like the new diagnostic/installation cycle that helps verify that the machine is installed and working properly.


Post# 1056376 , Reply# 3   1/3/2020 at 09:17 by john76 (USA)        

Iím anticipating needing a new dishwasher to replace my 2005 Maytag. I removed my kick plate to see if a closed back unit like Bosch would be doable, apparently not since the conduit comes up through the floor. Would the newer Kitchenaid work? Itís not clear to me whether or not it is possible. The term open back is what I believe is needed for my situation.

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Post# 1056478 , Reply# 4   1/4/2020 at 13:51 by appnut (TX)        

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I just caught on the KA web site they are having a 25% off sale until January 8th on4 of their Clean Water Wash models.  


Post# 1056493 , Reply# 5   1/4/2020 at 17:18 by volsboy1 (East Tenn Smoky mountains )        

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So does this mean that Maytag will drop there current wash system? I hope they don't drop the hard food disposer ,part and go to a filter. Maytag dishwashers sell like crazy I saw 4 being sold today in 20 mins at HomO-Depot . I have been saving for a new Miele dishwasher for 8 months.My Smeg is going down the tubes fast and that is one expensive dishwasher to fix. I could get the TOL Maytag today and have money left but I do want a Miele ...


Post# 1056497 , Reply# 6   1/4/2020 at 17:40 by appnut (TX)        

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Wes, they are going to the self-cleaning filter (Clean Water Wash System like I have in my 2015 KitchenMore Elite.  In fact, my first hint of this coming to pass was the last version of their TOL (wasn't on the market very long, less than a year), mentioned in the manual was the Clean Water Wash system that's  a filter the continuously cleans itself and no mention of a 4-blade chopper.  This model was the only model that didn't have a tiered upper rack and the 3rd rack was mind of modular in how you could arrange it.  It's an MDB8989.  It was removed from their web site more than a month ago but can still be found at some of their retailers.  


Post# 1056509 , Reply# 7   1/4/2020 at 21:29 by eurekastar (Amarillo, Texas)        
Tiered Rack!

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I hope Maytag doesn't do away with the tiered upper rack!  That is such a unique feature and comes in handy when washing large cookie sheets, etc. on the the lower rack. 


Post# 1056523 , Reply# 8   1/4/2020 at 23:50 by Tomdawg (Des moines)        
New 2020 design?

I found these on whirlpool digital assets. Looks like they are going away from tired.

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Post# 1056534 , Reply# 9   1/5/2020 at 00:34 by appnut (TX)        

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Tub does look lower.  Wonder if they went with an induction motor like LG to get that lower depth.  Tom, did you find any KitchenAid dishwashers?  I've been looking and haven't found anything.  


Post# 1056568 , Reply# 10   1/5/2020 at 07:07 by Logixx (Germany)        

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Well, that certainly a all-new design. The uppermost drawer is reminiscent of the MyWay rack.

Here's a screenshot of the disassembly, installation and reassembly video. Looks like a normal pump to me.


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Post# 1056578 , Reply# 11   1/5/2020 at 09:13 by henene4 (Germany)        

Seems like they basicly eliminated any real sump here to save on water volume.

Water diverter as per usual. Drain pump mounted for better backwashing of the filter to the right there.
Only 2 wires to the main pump by the looks of it (should be the blueish onces going to the white pump housing at the bottom herr) which would make me think it's just single phase AC. Or some really weired DC setup without speed monitoring.


Post# 1056633 , Reply# 12   1/5/2020 at 19:24 by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

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Wow. That image of the sump and wash arm. That is sexy. I didn't expect to see something that sleek. Whirlpool has plenty of haters, but they know how to craft beautiful appliances both inside and out and have perfected a balance of form vs. function. I'm keeping an open mind about the platform itself until I can see/feel it in person but I'm actually really excited to see more about these machines, and eager to see what the KitchenAid side is going to look like.

The more I've watched the video, and looked at these photos, the more intrigued and impressed I am. I'm not sure exactly what kind of black magic is happening to create that amount of space from top to bottom, but it looks like what they've essentially done is positioned the pump assembly adjacent to the sump, where previous designs have the entire assembly stacked on top or close together. It looks like the higher parts of the bottom of the tub are what would be the bottom in the current tall-tub designs, which is why they didn't have to reduce the motor size at all, they just positioned it under that high side while bringing the entire sump and wash arm assembly lower in the center. It's very pretty, and I'll bet when a camera is put inside it's going to look really cool seeing how the water flows around and into that new sump design. And I'm ABSOLUTELY glad to see those giant clown-shoe looking wash arms that have been in the Maytags as of late going bye-bye.

It also doesn't look like anything is changed as far as the actual motor/pump assembly. When they debuted that CleanWater/MicroClean wash module back around 2015, they sort of retrofit it onto the existing GlobalWash assembly, whereas now it's offset underneath, largely unchanged, but seems that it's going to be the flagship platform now.

I think it's a genius move. That pump assembly is the most innovative change to dishwashers in probably the last three decades. Until this design, the formula has either been a removable filter, or a disposal blade wash system with a soil accumulator. This is blending the best of those worlds: the quiet, energy-efficiency of a filter, with the maintenance-free ease of a self-cleaning disposal system. The idea is genius: a filter cylinder with laser etched holes that are microns in diameter, just like Dyson's filter shrouds on the Cinetic and V8/V10, but that filter is spinning with the impeller, while a deflector baffle continually lifts the soils away and prevents them from sticking, keeping the soil continually in suspense, to be sucked away when the drain pump kicks on. No other manufacturer to my knowledge has been able to implement anything like it, and if Whirlpool doesn't market the crap out of that kind of innovation to combat companies like LG and Samsung and their gimmicky products, it will be a terrible disappointment.

I really hope this is going to be Whirlpool's "step up your game" era. The changes to their design are all highly competitive selling points, the filtration, the taller tub, the huge third rack design, etc. Whirlpool needs to get people excited about their products like they used to years ago. The market is too stagnant now to afford otherwise.


Post# 1056653 , Reply# 13   1/5/2020 at 21:47 by Tomdawg (Des moines)        

I have not seen any new kitchen aids on there. Ive been looking too! I was looking at those pictures again.. looks like there is a bar with holes in it on the third rack- that actually looks cool!

I agree with the last post, I really hope the new design works well!


Post# 1056713 , Reply# 14   1/6/2020 at 16:36 by volsboy1 (East Tenn Smoky mountains )        

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Damn ,I am impressed . It looks great ,I see they took inspiration from Miele dishwashers. The wash arms

remind me of a Miele. I am glad now I have not bought a new dishwasher I guess I will wait until these come out. I was reading the patents for this wash system and there are alot of them but, I found one that would make more sense If I was a Whirlpool engineer or marketing man.

This patent(US9301667B2)

combines the clean water rotating filter and it also has a grinder in it.  I am not sure which patent they are 

using because, there are so many and companies always tries to cover as many bases as they can.I love the look and design of the inside and I guess I will take a chance and buy one when it comes out,after I look at more closely.

It is nice that they are keeping Maytags more powerful motor than that 60 watt wash motor that Whirlpool has been using.I have always wondered why Whirlpools Euro division's always look better in every way compared  to what we get over here. Maybe things are changing.


Post# 1056716 , Reply# 15   1/6/2020 at 17:18 by henene4 (Germany)        

One thing I am dumbfounded by is why they - from what I can tell - basicly completly stayed away from variable speed pumps.

That is slowly becoming standard across the board from the lower mid tear upwards - at least over here.

These mostly PWM driven DC motors are cheap, reliable and take away with the annoying 50/60Hz hum that even the quietest DW with mains driven motors have.


Post# 1056783 , Reply# 16   1/7/2020 at 15:28 by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        

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No one ever mentions JennAir....aren't they supposed to be higher end than KitchenAid?  I wonder if they will have any extra features above the KA's besides being quieter.  I know some of their models are listed for $1999.....I wish I would.


Post# 1056819 , Reply# 17   1/7/2020 at 22:43 by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        
New WP DW Designs

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Hi Andrew [ reply #12 ] yes indeed this looks exciting, WP is already the worlds leading DW builder and this looks like an efficient simple design that eliminates the messy-stinky filters that WP and GE have been using because they thought copying cheap Bosch and Miele designs was a smart way to build DWs.

 

There is no need for complicated variable speed motors and excess sensors, A DW needs to wash dishes and get rid of all food soil and DRY the dishes which requires a DRY heater not gimmicks that do a so-so attempt at drying.

 

I will keep an eye on these DWs as we start selling them, I might even install one and test it against my 1987 WP PC DW.

 

John L.


Post# 1057172 , Reply# 18   1/10/2020 at 18:28 by tomdawg (Des moines)        
Whirlpool has new videos regarding the 2020 line up

video.whirlpoolcorpsalesacademy....


looks like they are focusing on kitchen aid too.. pretty neat!


Post# 1057213 , Reply# 19   1/11/2020 at 02:40 by trappn (Illinois)        
Planning Ahead.....................

My GE Profile (Triton) dishwasher is going on 17 years old. Pull everything apart every few years to ensure things are going well.

Assuming the new design hasn't been released, yet. When will we be able to eye-ball the new models?

Thanks for your help!

Nick


Post# 1057225 , Reply# 20   1/11/2020 at 07:07 by appnut (TX)        

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As per the installation video, I think it's February 20th is when the official announcement will be.

Post# 1057240 , Reply# 21   1/11/2020 at 08:56 by johnb300m (Chicago)        
3 things

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1. Spin Tubes are back folks! Lol.
2. No differentiated x arm for KA :/
3. Chopper / disposer built into the drain pump!

Canít wait to see em.


Post# 1057241 , Reply# 22   1/11/2020 at 09:11 by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        

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i wonder if these new models will require the call of an electrician to install an outlet to plug the power cord in?

Post# 1057248 , Reply# 23   1/11/2020 at 11:11 by Logixx (Germany)        

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Yes, it looks like Bosch's MyWay rack meets Asko's middle rack meets a Spin Tube or Midea InnoWash spray system. Interesting, though.

Post# 1057255 , Reply# 24   1/11/2020 at 12:42 by tomdawg (Des moines)        
spin tubes

I wonder if the spin tubes will be the new way of dishwashing? I believe the old ones back in the day had them. spray arms take up a lot of room in the dishwasher.

Post# 1057285 , Reply# 25   1/11/2020 at 19:09 by appnut (TX)        

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I noticed in the video the sump is a bit more contained in a "well", concentrated around the pump.  (No doubt due to how the motor is rearranged underneath and also gives more height for the racks).  That might help with food particles being fed easier into the system for filtering.  Sometimes I have debris that's not pushed into the sump to be put through filtering.  The instances are when debris is around the edge of the tub on any of the 4 sides.  And my machine fills up to proper water level.  And I also find this the case if I add some extra water to counter this.  Also, the heating element looks more substantial than mine.  I have to admit I'm a bit curious to know if some tweaks have been made to the Clean Water Wash System as opposed to my 1st generation design.  I've also been a little bit leery as to whether a Bosch with the MyWay 3rd rack and how well it could clean a cereal bowl that's been used to cook hot cereal.  I imagine this targeted jets will do very well in those situations.  


Post# 1057324 , Reply# 26   1/12/2020 at 08:34 by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
Just so I'm clear

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this redesign will replace removable filters and put back in hard food disposers like the Maytags have always had?

Post# 1057331 , Reply# 27   1/12/2020 at 08:41 by henene4 (Germany)        
Kind of

Kind of, yeah, but see it more like a more elaborate self cleaning filter with soft food disposer.

Post# 1057375 , Reply# 28   1/12/2020 at 14:01 by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
Whirlpool/maytag

Will these new Maytag's alternate wash arms? Will whirlpool release there own version or will they keep the global wash system? I'm excited myself.

Post# 1057600 , Reply# 29   1/14/2020 at 18:18 by appnut (TX)        

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Looks like they're updated their Top Load line too.  


Post# 1057708 , Reply# 30   1/15/2020 at 19:11 by appnut (TX)        
Dual filtration whole meal pizza, cake, PB& sandwiches

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A caveat at the bottom of screen--"Results based upon non-standard usage.  Do not attempt at home."


Post# 1057718 , Reply# 31   1/15/2020 at 20:03 by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        
Do Not Attempt disclaimer...

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In today's world, I'm sure they have to do this because some dummy would put a pizza with meat and pepperoni on it, or a whole cake with walnut chunks inside or something, and then file a lawsuit because their pump assembly had to be torn out because the insoluble food gummed it up.

I wouldn't even attempt the cake test in my PowerClean if there were any food ingredients involved that don't dissolve in heat and water. Most people don't have common sense though, hence our society of "this could burn you/hurt you" labels on everything we buy.


Post# 1057720 , Reply# 32   1/15/2020 at 20:08 by lakewebsterkid (Dayton, Ohio)        
Somewhat impressed

Those rotating spray arms for the third rack are very cool. I just hope this design works as well as they state. However, if the dual filter whatever system works as good as they claim, shouldnít a normal cycle take care of those soils of the pizza, cake, and PB&J? Sensors should pick up on that extra junk. The power blast cycle in current machines uses about 7 fills if I remember correctly. Iíd certainly hope it would be capable of doing that.

Post# 1057732 , Reply# 33   1/15/2020 at 21:15 by lakewebsterkid (Dayton, Ohio)        
Kenmore version?

Could this be it?
i.sears.com/s/d/pdf/mp-tc/101306...


Post# 1057738 , Reply# 34   1/15/2020 at 22:46 by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
spray arm action

I bet maytag's gonna start alternating spray arms like the rest of the whirlpool family does with their wash action. eh?

Post# 1057739 , Reply# 35   1/15/2020 at 22:57 by appnut (TX)        

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That's my dishwasher with the 3rd rack added.  This one was added to Sears July 2016, my model was released August 2015.  Specs say these had t4e cylinder spin at 3400 rpms where as the new  models spin at 3600 rpms according to one of the videos.  


Post# 1057741 , Reply# 36   1/15/2020 at 23:02 by murando531 (Huntsville, AL)        

murando531's profile picture
@lakewebsterkid - It should. I suppose they also like to showcase the marketing to their ďPowerBlastĒ cycle on the Maytags. To be honest, the overuse of the word Power on the Maytag products is cheesy to me. On the dishwashers itís literally just the same as Heavy cycle on all the sister machines. It doesnít increase pressure or anything, just forces the max number of prewashes and rinses and heats the main wash.

That said, the cake tests Iíve done on the Whirlpool 920 and KitchenAid KDFE104, along with the scorch test I did on thread floating around this site somewhere, I believe I used the Sensor or Normal cycles, and the machine decided to run with the max three prewashes with purges between, plus three full rinses. So Iíd imagine these new machines would operate in a similar fashion.

Also, that manual seems to be for the 2015 to 2019 MicroClean/CleanWater system like I believe appnut(Bob) has.


Post# 1057945 , Reply# 37   1/17/2020 at 17:24 by lakewebsterkid (Dayton, Ohio)        
Interesting

Andrew, that sounds about right! Thanks!
Interesting to see the KA MicroClean machines for the first time. appnut, have you had good luck with yours? I didnít know KA made anything like it! Seems like a cool design.


Post# 1057965 , Reply# 38   1/17/2020 at 19:22 by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture

Yes, overall I've been pleased with it.  


Post# 1058042 , Reply# 39   1/18/2020 at 15:17 by volsboy1 (East Tenn Smoky mountains )        

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I can't tell if it alternates wash arms or not. I am thinking that it does just because of that new 3rd rack 360 bottle wash.

The motor looks the same that is on Maytag dishwashers now. It says 1/3 H.P. on Maytags web-site but on the motor it says .24 H.P.  and 2.1 Amps of current . The motor is much more powerful than all of them out there that I have found. Most dishwasher pump motors today are 50 to 100 watt Askol Aquarium type motors.

I wonder if Whirlpool will use this type of pump with all there dishwashers like Amana,Jen-air and there own brand.

 

 

 


Post# 1058055 , Reply# 40   1/18/2020 at 18:02 by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
Good question.

Inquiring minds want to know.

Post# 1058069 , Reply# 41   1/18/2020 at 20:49 by appnut (TX)        

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Wex, Maytag was the last of the old Point Voyager pump design (all wash arms rotating at the same time) to be sold since the Clean Water Wash/MicroClean wash system was released sometime in 2014 with the initial model KA KDTM354DSS.  Then in 2015 KA released 4 additional models that made up their high-end models . Then 2 years ago they announced 2 or 3 more models that were less featured, but still included this pump design.  Sears released their own version in August 2015 with 4 base models and announced 1 or 2 more in 2016 before Whirlpool ceased selling their branded products in Sears.  There's only like 2 or 3 base models from the Sears MicroClean wash system left.  All Sears' new high-end models have been by LG since 2016 and 2017.     


Post# 1058101 , Reply# 42   1/19/2020 at 05:32 by retro-man (nashua,nh - boston,ma)        
I had a feeling

Woke up yesterday morning to a dishwasher that I had turned on the night before, with no finish cycle light. Oh no. I tripped and reset breaker no change. Opened and check glasses, they were clean and looked rinsed. Pulled out bottom rack and there is clear water still in tub. No nothing when trying to start again. Completely dead. Between service call and parts mind as well buy a new one. It is a 7 year old Whirlpool tall tub. It was a good dishwasher but time to move on. Will go look at the new Whirlpool and Maytags on Monday. Actually this is shortest time I have ever had on a dishwasher. I guess I have had good luck.

Jon


Post# 1058102 , Reply# 43   1/19/2020 at 06:29 by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
These new models have not been announced formally yet. Sometime in February.

Post# 1058107 , Reply# 44   1/19/2020 at 08:25 by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        
Woke Up To A Dead DW

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Hi Jon, you probably just have an open Thermal Fuse in the control area, if you find this to be the case be sure to install the heavier wires that come with the new TF to prevent a repeat failure.

 

Post Your model # and I can tell you which one is needed.

 

Throwing away a 7 YO DW is like buying a new car when the battery is bad. I would not take the chance of damage to your kitchen, floor cabinets etc to have a simple to fix problem solved.

 

John L.


Post# 1058112 , Reply# 45   1/19/2020 at 10:43 by logixx (Germany)        

logixx's profile picture
KDPM804KBS and MDB9979SKZ are some of the new KitchenAid and Maytag models listed on plessers.com. Besides an installation manual on Mayag's Canadian website, there's no information on the manufacturer's websites yet.

Post# 1058176 , Reply# 46   1/20/2020 at 05:47 by retro-man (nashua,nh - boston,ma)        

Hi John,

Thanks for your response. The model # is WDF530PLYW3. Any info would be appreciated.

Jon


Post# 1058192 , Reply# 47   1/20/2020 at 10:26 by combo52 (Beltsville,Md)        
Dead WP DW

combo52's profile picture
Hi John, thanks for the model #, This DW does not use an external TF, it is built into the main control board.

Try turning off the breaker for 10 minutes, if that does not help confirm that the power connections in the junction box are good and that power is actually getting that far.

Other than these items it could have a bad control board, unfortunately the board lists for around $175, Sorry I though this DW still had an external TF which was a very common problem.

John L.


Post# 1058210 , Reply# 48   1/20/2020 at 13:45 by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture

Assuming SearsParts data is correct, board original P/N W10461370 subs to W10473200.

RepairClinic.com has it $144.79.

Sears lists $141.95.

PartsDr.com $124.56 ($7.99 shipping)

ApplianceParts4All.com $121.62

PartsIPS.com $93.42 (but shipping is high $26.95)

CertifiedParts.com has choices of $79.00 (Refurbished, 1yr warranty), $147.20 (New - Salvaged/Open Box, 1yr warranty), and $168.00 (new, factory warranty).

eBay has a range of choices.† One I see is described as NIB / Open Box for $54.95 with free shipping.


Post# 1058263 , Reply# 49   1/21/2020 at 06:02 by retro-man (nashua,nh - boston,ma)        

Thanks guys, I tried shutting the breaker for a day and no change. Getting power right up to the machine. Was online yesterday checking prices for parts and along with this there is a problem with the fill valve. It is making a very high pitched whistle when filling. This just started a month ago. So that would be needed to be replace also. So me and the mrs went dishwasher shopping yesterday and picked out a Maytag MDB49490SHW. It was in stock and will be delivered and installed this week.

Jon


Post# 1058295 , Reply# 50   1/21/2020 at 16:14 by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture

New Maytags & Kitchenaids are on Goedeckers web site.  The user manuals aren't updated to correspond with new models yet.  Maytag's Dual Power Filtration combines microfiltration and 4-blade stainless steel chopper.  The 3rd rack has a specialized wash zone.  

 

The KA 3rd rack can take on glasses & mugs up to 6" tall.  Has rotating wash jets.  


Post# 1058306 , Reply# 51   1/21/2020 at 17:56 by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
Wash arm alternation

Does this Maytag dishwasher alternate wash arms, or do they run simultaneously? I'd like to know.

Post# 1058317 , Reply# 52   1/21/2020 at 19:26 by johnb300m (Chicago)        
We got photos, people!

johnb300m's profile picture
www.amaytag.com/en/catalo...

Looking good!
Maytag model.


Post# 1058318 , Reply# 53   1/21/2020 at 19:41 by appnut (TX)        

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THANKS JOHN!!!

 

Here's a KitchenAid

 

And the owns' manual is still the old document, doesn't go with the new model.  



CLICK HERE TO GO TO appnut's LINK

Post# 1058319 , Reply# 54   1/21/2020 at 19:50 by appnut (TX)        
Quick Start Guide

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Mentions & shows about the foreign objects cup.  



CLICK HERE TO GO TO appnut's LINK

Post# 1058322 , Reply# 55   1/21/2020 at 19:58 by appnut (TX)        
I know I"m beieng picky

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Just wish their TOL 804 model came with a water softener.  


Post# 1060551 , Reply# 56   2/14/2020 at 17:23 by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture

Well, new models are finally showing up on their corporate web pages.  And unfortunately, again, they don't provide the correct owners manual and other material, it's still the old product use & care.  Just, as indicated upthread, the appropriate quick start guide for the KA.  whirlpool did the same thing when they announced their new front load line late fall/early winter 2018.  Wonder if any interested potential customers realize it's the wrong documentation.  





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