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Thread Number: 81682
/ Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Miele straying away from god |
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| Post# 1056906 , Reply# 1 1/8/2020 at 16:55 (1,559 days old) by mielerod69 (Australia) | ||
It was only a matter of time | ||
| Post# 1056925 , Reply# 3 1/8/2020 at 19:28 (1,559 days old) by yugi (Knoxville, TN) | ||
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I have W1926, which is 15 years old, and still running great. I replaced inlet triple valve once, and that's about it. Yes, it takes close to 2 hours to do cottons cycle, and it's pretty small capacity (6 kg), but it works great. No other machine cleans better and is more durable than Miele. | ||
Post# 1056932 , Reply# 4 1/8/2020 at 19:56 (1,559 days old) by combo52  (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Oh No plastic Outer Tub Thats the great thing About SQs Washers and dryers, because they are exactly the same as their commercial models they are no corners being cut.
After 15 years of selling and serviceing SQs I have not seen one single cost cut done except eliminating the silly guard that sat on top of the dryers lint filter.
Last year SQ started making their dryer inner door panels out of steel instead of plastic and last month SQ changed the main drive pulley on TL washer back to Aluminum on the TC and commercial models.
John L. | ||
| Post# 1056973 , Reply# 5 1/9/2020 at 02:05 (1,559 days old) by FreshNclean (WA) | ||
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Is there any thing special about GlaronK? Is it a durable plastic compareable to steel Or iron ? What price point are you reaching if you service the premium segment ? | ||
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Post# 1057038 , Reply# 7 1/9/2020 at 15:36 (1,558 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Carbon fiber reinforced polymer
GlaronK is what Miele calls theirs, is everywhere.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_fib... "Carbon fiber is an advanced material ten times stronger than steel at only a quarter of its weight. CFRP, a composite material made of carbon fiber and plastic, has the added advantage of being highly resistant to deformation and to both acid and alkaline corrosion." www.teijin.com/rd/technol... Last bit is of particular interest to washing machine and dishwasher manufactures given nature of chemicals tubs/suds containers are exposed to on routine basis. As to which is best where; porcelain on steel, CFRP or stainless, that is up for debate. www.hunker.com/13410123/i... Will say in past washing machines and dishwashers were "durable goods" with supposed lifespans of ten years or greater. Appliances of old often came with "lifetime warranty" on tubs/suds containers, which wasn't all it may have seemed at first glance. Chances were other parts of washer or dishwasher long would have worn out, broken or whatever long before tub. Most consumers at that point just purchased a new machine instead of investing in major repair. People today are far more mobile than in past; often leaving appliances at old home. At that point something that lasts "20 years" or whatever becomes moot. My older Miele washer is built like a tank with two SS suds containers, but likely long will be out of service due to motor, pump and other parts knackered that cannot be replaced. At that point unless or until parts in question can be located and installed, what is the good of a lifetime tub? | ||
| Post# 1057068 , Reply# 8 1/9/2020 at 20:16 (1,558 days old) by iej (.... ) | ||
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In a W1 I tend to use Cottons 40ºC or 60º + SHORT option. It's actually a very decent wash without ridiculously long times. It's about 0:58 to 1:20 depending on options at 40C and a bit over 2h at 75ºC or 90ºC | ||
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Post# 1057277 , Reply# 13 1/11/2020 at 16:49 (1,556 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Much of Miele's North American pricing comes from fact everything is imported, as such subject to exchange rates and shipping costs.
Unlike Bosch, Miele refuses to build a plant in USA much less North America so there you are... Parts, accessories and supplies found rather cheaply in EU, are all quite dear in North America, this included the vastly inflated rates once charged for Henkel products (Persil, Somat, etc...) and even Miele's own label products. Then you simply have fact Miele is a small player in rather large North American market. They don't move anywhere near number of products as Whirlpool or Electrolux (either under their brand names or subsidiaries). Without that economy of scale what is sold cost more than it otherwise would. Keep in mind while yes Miele laundry appliances are rather good, we in USA don't have access to a wide array of things from other brands that are equally or offer better value than Miele. Miele's gamble with 4XXX series washers and matching dryers was their attempt at breaking into a larger share of North American laundry appliance market, something that is vastly different than their home manor (EU). While it has taken time for Americans to warm to front loaders, one thing is clear; they didn't like "compact" units in large numbers. For all its faults Maytag's Neptune showed the way. Americans would use front loaders if doing so didn't dramatically alter time honored laundry habits. That is doing large amounts of laundry at a go; this rather than small amounts on near daily basis. Most American uber sized front loaders have rated capacity of 18 lbs. This is highest most brands will go because often local zoning restricts residential washers to 20 lbs or less (New York City is one). Miele's Little Giant washers only rate at 15 lbs, and are very expensive for what you get. That and have unique electrical power requirements often not found in American homes. So Miele tried another track, came up with 4XXX series, and we know how that ended. Miele went back to drawing board and came up with W 1 series (rated capacity of 17.6 lbs). More importantly various EU markets now are more receptive to "large" capacity washers. So Miele isn't stuck with making machines just for North America (as with 4XXX series). Where Miele fails, and Whirlpool, Electrolux etc... eat their lunch is that for money paid for their appliances Miele USA still has weak after sales/service Someone who has paid nearly three thousand for a washing machine doesn't want to hear they will have to wait two weeks (or more) just for a diagnose call out. Then maybe another week (or more, much more) before repair can be done. Worse that is if things can be fixed at all second call around. | ||
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Post# 1057283 , Reply# 15 1/11/2020 at 18:48 (1,556 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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You can buy Miele vacuum cleaners mostly everywhere in USA. Our local "hardware" store even sells them, though maybe not entire line.
As for vacuum spares, again you can get them all over, not just Miele or authorized dealer. Ebay and CL are full of adverts for Miele vac bags, parts, etc.. Quite honestly don't see what all fuss is about with Miele vacuum cleaners. They don't seem to be any more special than other offerings that are much cheaper. Repair track record isn't overly brilliant either for many models. Again nothing going by often premium price attached to the things. Yes, can see for mod cons in EU things having to fit standard cabinet/cut out sizes. Same here for things like dishwashers, ranges, etc... Overall it is same as with many other consumer goods; no serious player on world market can afford to ignore USA. But Miele can only go so far without opening a plant in North America, and seriously investing in after sales support and service. Being a niche brand is all very well for impressing the neighbors, and or if one's home is going to be photographed and shown in glossy magazine pages. But majority of housewives/households just want appliances that will get the job done reliably year after year, and not require a mortgage to buy. | ||
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Post# 1057288 , Reply# 16 1/11/2020 at 20:06 (1,556 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Miele Appliances In The US Their vacuums sell fairly well, the their 2nd best selling appliance are their DWs.
Miele will never be a serious player in laundry appliances with only compact washers and dryers, you could not give away their dryers to most customers.
Compact washers and dryers are less than 10% of the overall laundry sales in the US and Miele is getting 5% of compact sales if they are lucky.
Their dryers are slow, unreliable do not come in gas or even vented versions any longer.
Their Cook-Tops and wall ovens are nice but there are lots of good competitors, and again built-in cooking appliances are less than 20% of total cooking appliance sales in the US.
Miele built-in refrigerators are poorly designed problem prone and in current form they can't even capture 2% of the US built-in ref market, [ they are built in New Jersey ]
Appliance service is important, but is not the main thing that is holding Miele sales back in the US, price and a poor reputation for reliability are the main complaints we hear from our customers. One of the most common complaints I hear from our customers about their washers & Dryers is, why on earth did someone buy these, I have actually talked many Miele owners into keeping the Ws&Ds at least till they break down.
John L.
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Post# 1057356 , Reply# 22 1/12/2020 at 10:20 (1,555 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Plastic outer tubs In FL Washers Are actually much heavier [ weight wise ] than SS, probably the worst thing about plastic is it does not get recycled when the machine is crushed for recycling.
One of the other bad things about plastic is it has a lot of deep pockets and ribs on the back of the tubs for strength and these can get filled with minerals and other gunk leading to odors and spider failures.
I guess that SQ FL washers will soon be the only 50 year durability washers available for the masses in the US soon.
John L. | ||
| Post# 1057360 , Reply# 23 1/12/2020 at 11:08 (1,555 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.) | ||
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"Are actually much heavier [ weight wise ] than SS..." Are they? The original posting says it is 5 kg lighter. | ||
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Post# 1057374 , Reply# 25 1/12/2020 at 13:36 (1,555 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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Post# 1057400 , Reply# 26 1/12/2020 at 19:51 (1,555 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Plastic Outer Tubs In FL washers
SS is simply much stronger for a given weight than plastic.
Hi James, you are correct that plastic outer tubs can be designed with the ribs on the outside or inside, I found these examples in our shop of building them both ways, I guess it would be interesting to see how Miele is doing it on this new model. While it puts overall plastic use context comparing plastic bottles used in the life of a washer to the plastic used to build the outer tub, it simply does not justify using a plastic tub. Metals used in appliances are fully recycled back into new very high quality products. Hi Louis, I don't think that you can compare the overall weight of two different model machines and conclude that the difference is do to a plastic outer tub, there are 100 other things that could have been made lighter in a washer, just a better computer balance control and better shocks would allow taking that much weight away from the counterbalance weights. John L. This post was last edited 01/12/2020 at 21:22 | ||
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Post# 1057521 , Reply# 27 1/14/2020 at 02:08 (1,554 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands) |
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@John | ||
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