Thread Number: 81915  /  Tag: Vintage Automatic Washers
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Post# 1059410   2/1/2020 at 23:44 (1,146 days old) by robbinsandmyers (Conn)        

robbinsandmyers's profile picture
To invest a little money into a very trustworthy machine thats been great for the 6 years I've run the snot out of it. I got my 1974 A407 from a friend for $50.00. It was working fine but I replaced the belts and H&C hoses because they were original. After 4 years the timer started acting up as soon as it would go into the rinse cycle. Found a used one online and its been fine since. Does 3-4 loads per week faithfully. Plus my landlord uses it once in a while in their tailor shop to wash the whites they iron on. Tonight while doing a load I noticed a little water leaking out the bottom and pulled the front panel and lifted the top cover to find the water injector coupling spraying all over. Its vented and the rubber hose inside has 3 pin holes. Also the hose going from it to the tub was chafing and almost worn through. I started thinking that the tub bearing is also clunking and with the front panel off I could hear the upper bearing starting to hiss on spin plus the damper pads are worn away. At first I was just going to replace the hoses then decided to go right through it since its all original still and I will never have to replace those things again. So I ordered the injector hoses and coupling, both bearings, damper pads, tub bearing and also seal. I'll do it in stages. Eventually I'm going to drill a 1/8 NPT hole in the trans and change the oil as well. I figure this machine will last many more years after this. I wasnt crazy about spending that cash on the clutch tool but I need it. About $240.00 total for everything.

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Post# 1059415 , Reply# 1   2/2/2020 at 02:29 (1,146 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)        

maytag85's profile picture
Even if you have to make repairs and adjustments every now and again itís still better than spending over $600 to $700 on something that will only 5 to 6 years. My Maytag A606 along with the matching DG306 were sitting in storage for at least 20 years, and the only thing that needs to looked into is the damper pats but otherwise seems to works just fine. My 1973 Maytag A606 shows no signs of leaking oil, and is very clean inside

Post# 1059433 , Reply# 2   2/2/2020 at 08:55 (1,146 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Rebuilding a Maytag DC Washer From The 70s

combo52's profile picture

Hi John, you should tear it apart first to see what you may need, The two main reasons our customers give up on this vintage MT is rusted and sizing top agitator shafts and damper pads that wore away or came loose and left the aluminum damper dome scored.

 

If the transmission shaft is in bad condition you need another transmission, likewise with the damper dome. We find the most economical way to fix these older MT DC washer is to get a low mileage much newer machine and use the parts, in this area I see MT TL stacks every week on the recycle pile that look like new inside. These usually come out of small condos where there was little use and people are replacing because the dryer has a problem and they know it is old.

 

What is a clutch tool ? MT does not even have a clutch as such.

 

John L.


Post# 1059438 , Reply# 3   2/2/2020 at 10:55 (1,146 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture
Its so sad and tragic that people are unaware of the holy grail they had. One of the greatest pieces of ingenuity and history the human race has ever created.

Post# 1059443 , Reply# 4   2/2/2020 at 12:09 (1,146 days old) by robbinsandmyers (Conn)        

robbinsandmyers's profile picture
"Maytag85:Even if you have to make repairs and adjustments every now and again itís still better than spending over $600 to $700 on something that will only 5 to 6 years. My Maytag A606 along with the matching DG306 were sitting in storage for at least 20 years, and the only thing that needs to looked into is the damper pats but otherwise seems to works just fine. My 1973 Maytag A606 shows no signs of leaking oil, and is very clean inside"

I agree, they dont make them like this anymore and even though its got a lot of time on it, its been very reliable over 6 years and lots of use. If I could find a clean spin basket for it even better. It should run like new once all is said and done.

"Combo52:

Hi John, you should tear it apart first to see what you may need, The two main reasons our customers give up on this vintage MT is rusted and sizing top agitator shafts and damper pads that wore away or came loose and left the aluminum damper dome scored.



If the transmission shaft is in bad condition you need another transmission, likewise with the damper dome. We find the most economical way to fix these older MT DC washer is to get a low mileage much newer machine and use the parts, in this area I see MT TL stacks every week on the recycle pile that look like new inside. These usually come out of small condos where there was little use and people are replacing because the dryer has a problem and they know it is old.



What is a clutch tool ? MT does not even have a clutch as such.



John L."


My main problem is I need the washer to do clothes every 3-4 days so cant tie it up long, thats why I will do all these repairs in stages. The water leak issue one day, then the tub bearing and seal another day. Then drill and tap the trans and drain and change the oil another day. I have the 806 pair in my apartment but that is a huge project to swap the washer out while I repair this one. Plus no room in the basement to have two washers at once. I'll pull the agitator tonite and snap a pic of the shaft for your inspection and advice. Sorry I meant brake tool, thats the gear head in me thinking clutches.



"Chetlaham:Its so sad and tragic that people are unaware of the holy grail they had. One of the greatest pieces of ingenuity and history the human race has ever created."


I say that every time I see someone junk a Volvo 240 or old Mercedes diesel still in good shape.


Post# 1059444 , Reply# 5   2/2/2020 at 12:28 (1,146 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture
Its a shame- those are nice cars.

Post# 1059446 , Reply# 6   2/2/2020 at 13:07 (1,145 days old) by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture

$240 ... I've spent wayyy more than that on some machine refurbs.


Post# 1059448 , Reply# 7   2/2/2020 at 13:47 (1,145 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)        

maytag85's profile picture
I actually had to do more work to the Maytag DG306 than I had to do to the A606. My Maytag DG306 was originally a KDG606/DG606, but the electronic dry control was being a Royal pain so I just put a 306 timer in it to make it simpler. Thankfully I was lucky and found all the seals I needed for my Maytag DG306 since the felt seals were compromised, and I didnít want to use it with the old crispy seals. Only things that had rust on my Maytag DG306 was the rear panel, drum pulley and rear part of the blower/fan housing and thatís all the rust it had on it. They came from Los Angeles which is more damp since I live 65 miles inland, and the damp environment combined with the pilot light will cause rust inside especially if itís in a damp basement. Wont really have to worry about rust on my gas HOH since itís kept in a dry laundry room and I usually turn the pilot off after I am done drying clothes in it.

Post# 1059449 , Reply# 8   2/2/2020 at 14:13 (1,145 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Maytag brake Removal Tool

combo52's profile picture

Hi John, I have said it before, I find the MT BRT hard to use often ineffective and even dangerous as it often slips off and you wack your hand etc.

 

Especially if you are used to working on cars it is a piece of cake to remove the brake assembly from a DC MT washer.

 

Remove the drive pulley, then remove the locking bolt and clip, Then get a large sturdy Vice-Grip and clamp it on the edge of the BA next to one of the screws and take a hammer and give the VG about two whacks and finish unscrewing by hand. 

 

If you have dissembled cars you will appreciate how easily this comes apart.

 

John L.


Post# 1059617 , Reply# 9   2/4/2020 at 19:00 (1,143 days old) by robbinsandmyers (Conn)        
combo52.....

robbinsandmyers's profile picture
As promised heres a pic of the agitator shaft. I started doing a load tonite and remembered I was supposed to take a pic LOL. When my parts come in I'll sand it and paint it with some zinc chromate primer. The top seal will also get replaced as it leaks oil some times and leave a spot or two on a load of whites. Also a little play in the bushing.

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Post# 1059621 , Reply# 10   2/4/2020 at 19:56 (1,143 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Agitator Shaft Condition

combo52's profile picture

The critical area is the seal area below where you are seeing, also any side play at all means the top bushings in the top of the transmission housing are worn and probably have gotten little water in the transmission, I would bet you need a transmission for this project.

 

John L.


Post# 1059624 , Reply# 11   2/4/2020 at 20:45 (1,143 days old) by robbinsandmyers (Conn)        
transmission......

robbinsandmyers's profile picture
I have a complete trans for a 1964 A500. Will the case work? I have that plus console electrics and a good bakelite agitator for trade if anyone has a good trans I could swap in plus spin basket

Post# 1059629 , Reply# 12   2/4/2020 at 22:53 (1,143 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
MT Transmission Swap

combo52's profile picture

The top of the case and agitator shaft from the A500 Transmission will work on your A407 transmission, the the lower half is too tall.

 

John L.


Post# 1059775 , Reply# 13   2/6/2020 at 12:42 (1,142 days old) by LowEfficiency (Iowa)        

lowefficiency's profile picture
As an additional bonus, swapping the top half of the transmission as an assembly also conveniently saves you from one of the most difficult parts of a transmission rebuild - removal (and reinstallation) of the groov-pin and pinion gear from the agitator shaft.

Post# 1059804 , Reply# 14   2/6/2020 at 17:34 (1,141 days old) by robbinsandmyers (Conn)        

robbinsandmyers's profile picture
I think Friday I will split that 500A trans and clean and prep it if the top bushing is still tight. I know my friend said it would spot the clothes once in a while. If the seal is bad but bushing is OK is that normal? If I have to split the gear case I may as well buy the nylon gear and the synthetic oil someone advised here a while back.

Post# 1059809 , Reply# 15   2/6/2020 at 18:02 (1,141 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Rebuilding a MT Transmission

combo52's profile picture
Replacing the lower O ring cleaning and changing the oil is the main thing, I could not imagine why one would replace the nylon gear, I have never seen one fail, Has anyone ?

The main thing is the condition of the agitator shaft plating to make for a lasting repair.

John L.


Post# 1059811 , Reply# 16   2/6/2020 at 18:15 (1,141 days old) by LowEfficiency (Iowa)        

lowefficiency's profile picture

I've only rebuilt one of them, so my observation isn't statistically worth anything... but I can say that even in my mother's A308 transmission, that locked up from broken teeth on all three of the main metal transmission gears, the nylon gear was completely fine.

www.automaticwasher.org/c...


Post# 1059891 , Reply# 17   2/7/2020 at 17:00 (1,140 days old) by robbinsandmyers (Conn)        

robbinsandmyers's profile picture
I cleaned the top half of the 1964 500A trans today but didnt waste time taking it apart in case I was advised not to bother. The o ring was split so I removed it. The shaft where the seal rides has wear and pitting. I was thinking of coating it with a good zinc chromate primer to fill in those voids. The shaft has no play in the bushing at all so its a shame about the pitting. Will this be a problem with a new seal? Also, what weight Redline synthetic oil should I pick up for the trans and how much? Thanks.

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Post# 1059906 , Reply# 18   2/7/2020 at 19:26 (1,140 days old) by joecb (Farmington, Michigan)        

Please school me, Is it common for agitator machines to have the shaft and seal terminate below the water level? Seems like a the better design is like mu old Whirlpool that has the shaft seal at the top of the tub housing , way above the water level... just asking

Joe B


Post# 1059908 , Reply# 19   2/7/2020 at 20:18 (1,140 days old) by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture

Somewhat common.

Whirlpool shortened the baseplate centerpost, spin tube, and basket neck (the agitator shaft was not changed) on belt-drive machines, IIRC it was on either the F or H series, which put the bearings and seals below the water on a medium-ish or higher fill.† Bearing wear was reduced due to less lateral/angular stress.† However, a seal on the agitator anchor bolt is supposed to provide for an air bubble under the agitator that keeps water away.


Post# 1059912 , Reply# 20   2/7/2020 at 21:12 (1,140 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Maytag Agitator Shaft

combo52's profile picture

Good clean up job John, I would try to fill the pits and coat the shaft with something to seal the shaft against corrosion. I have never tried to do this but other members have done this and it looked good.

 

We still have enough transmissions around with shafts that are in great shape so I have never tried restoring a rusted spited shaft.

 

Hi Glenn, The thing that made WP washer bearings last so much longer was the addition of using two seals, this was so effective when they started doing this around 1974 that they shortened the spin tube again around 1978 putting all the bearings and seals below the water level. WP also bolted the agitator in place when they did this to maintain an air-pocket under the agitator which further helped to keep water and mineral deposits away from the water seals.

 

I have never seen any washer of any design or brand that had bearing wear problems till water got past the water seals and into the bearings, it is pretty simple engineering to make bearings strong enough to do a job and last until you add water.

 

John L.


Post# 1059923 , Reply# 21   2/7/2020 at 23:38 (1,140 days old) by robbinsandmyers (Conn)        

robbinsandmyers's profile picture
You think those pits will ruin the seal? Should I stay Maytag oil?

Post# 1059934 , Reply# 22   2/8/2020 at 06:43 (1,140 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Maytag Agitator Shaft

combo52's profile picture

The pits will ruin the new Agitator Shaft Seal, and when the unplaced shaft starts to rust the seal will be damaged very quickly.

 

We have the same problem with WP washers that use lip type seals. lip seals are very good but they must have a good surface to ride on if they are to work well or long.

 

As far as type of oil to use I don't think it matters much, I would use 70-90 weight depending if the machine will be operated in a really cold basement at times. I guess synthetic could be good, I would not waste my money on MT [ WP ] oil unless it is no more expensive that the good stuff you can get at an auto supply store.

 

John L.


Post# 1060037 , Reply# 23   2/8/2020 at 23:39 (1,139 days old) by robbinsandmyers (Conn)        
Cold basement

robbinsandmyers's profile picture
Yes thats one prob I seem to have at this place is the basement does get pretty cold in winter and it really slogs the machine down when I first do a load. The cold doesnt affect the synthetic I believe.


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