Thread Number: 82490  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Maytag 'Commercial' MVWP575GW Water use / long term issues
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Post# 1065445   4/1/2020 at 10:54 (1,456 days old) by SimonOo (Montreal)        

Good day all

I hope you are staying safe throughout these tough times.

I have been reading threads on here for a few months as I decide which washer and dryer set to get for the new house.

Because Speed Queen (Huebsch) is so expensive, and the TC series is hard to get in Canada, I am seriously considering the Maytag 'Commercial Grade' MVWP575GW washer and dryer set. I have read about all the potential issues but am looking for imput from owners / people who know the model.

My first question, does anybody know how many gallons of water this washer uses on an average load? I really don't want a front loader, but if it's 3 or 4 times more water, I might feel a bit wastefull.

Also, are the transmission issues widespread? I have read of 1 on here and seen a few others in online reviews. Are there any other issues owners who have had these machines for a while can share?

I am the type who doesn't think a washer should be replaced every 5 years. I am hoping to find something that will last me a while.

Thanks again.





Post# 1065984 , Reply# 1   4/5/2020 at 00:29 (1,453 days old) by speedqueen (Metro-Detroit)        

speedqueen's profile picture
Whitley can keep their new Maytag. Just a gussied up home machine, if you cant afford a Speed Queen get a used Whirlpool or Kenmore direct drive.

Post# 1066000 , Reply# 2   4/5/2020 at 06:21 (1,453 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)        

Looks like this "whirltag" is one of those miserable VMW machines.Have one and HATE IT!!!Will get a DD,SQ or something else next washer time!!!

Post# 1066187 , Reply# 3   4/6/2020 at 07:59 (1,452 days old) by PinkPower4 (USA)        
I have owned the Maytag mvwp575gw for over 18 months now.

I have owned the Maytag mvwp575gw for over 18 months now in my kid and pet friendly home. I have the service manual for the actual commercial version, which is similar. To the best of my knowledge, the following information may be helpful to you.

This washer uses about 14 gallons for the "Normal" Eco wash cycle. This cycle has three short spray rinses, which use an additional small amount of water. This cycle works great for smaller loads and quick washes for everything except delicates. The only real quirk is "hot" for this cycle is more like warm. There are various ways to add hot tap when needed. If you select any "Options" this cycle becomes a full tub wash and full tub rinse.

All of the main cycles (Bulky, Delicates, Mixed, and Powerwash) fill with a full tub of water which is about 22 gallons. On the commercial version used in laundry mats, you will get 3 more gallons for the bulky cycle. Honestly, I can tell on mine if it adds more water or not. I have never taken a yard stick to measure it. The main cycle has a full tub rinse (about another 22 gallons). The main wash cycles have tap hot. A full load is clothes loosely placed around the agitator until the tub is about 3/4 full.

All rinses are cold.

Yes, this is a vmw design. It is not the Maytag us older folks remember. However, this is the ONLY Maytag top load I would purchase. This Maytag "commercial residential" model should not be confused with Maytag/Whirlpool's other "commercial technology" models sold in the big box stores. It has an upgraded 1/2 hp motor, 7-rib vs. 5-rib belt, 60 watt vs. 50 or less watt capacitor, premium bearings, dual agitator vs. powerwash agitator, comes with premium hoses, and more. The vmw design plus the front panel and bottom access does make it easy to work on and repair vs. even the SQ.

This washer is my first overall choice for cleaning performance for its dual agitator. Not only does the agitator top and bottom move independently but the whole agitator moves separately from the tub. It is the real magic of this washer, and why I like it so much!!! I was shocked with the amount of dirt that came out of a comforter I had been regularly washing in the old LG front load I had. The Maytag actually moved all surfaces of the comforter through and around the water instead of trying to wash folded up. It comes with a five year parts and labor warranty.

The TC5000 would be my top overall choice. It does not have a dual agitator but at least the agitator and tub move separately so the wash action is still good. The half load selections do include delicates and the wash temperature is selectable (can have tap hot without manually adding it). It is built to be more durable. The suspension design is better. With that said, I haven't had any real issues with the Maytag when washing like items--a typical load of jeans, towels, permanent press, etc. I don't think the Maytag will handle uneven loads as well like pet beds or bed pillows (those shouldn't really be washed in a top load anyway, but...).

This SQ TC5000 model is not the old SQ though. It has TWO model-specific control boards and no water level control. Also, this is likely a time limited model that will be discontinued at the end of 2020. For that reason, it *may* be difficult to find parts for. I am curious to see what SQ does because their TR series works best for people who need to wash office attire. The TC5000 is what works better for people who have technical trade jobs, pets, or kids. The Maytag has ONE control board, but I don't think it will be as hard to find later because it is the same part used in their other real commercial models. In the end, the bearings and seals will probably be the reason someone replaces either of those models as this is not something the average consumer will repair themselves. I am not sure the SQ is any better than Maytag in that regard for THESE two models.

The SQ comes with a THREE year parts and labor warranty. The SQ costs more and can be a little or a lot depending on where you live. If it's not much difference, I would go with the SQ TC5000wn. I do think it will have fewer repairs and last a little longer...maybe 15 years w/o major repairs? I am going to take an educated guess and say the Maytag will probably last ten years though you may have some minor repairs like the actuator. Any lemon with either model should show up within that warranty period. If a matching set is important, there is no justification I can see for paying more for the SQ dryer vs. the matching dryer for the Maytag. If the SQ isn't an option, I still think the Maytag mvwp575gw is the second best overall option.

Your best bet is to try and find an older rebuilt model especially if you have someone in your area that restores these.

One thing I have learned from reading these boards is some people trade out washers like many consumers do their cell phones. I can tell you I am not one of them nor am I in the sales/repair business. While I think many people have a lot of good knowledge that comes from that, I think some receive incentives for recommending one brand over another. Others have no budget concerns. So my viewpoint is from someone that paid full price and plans to keep the machine until it dies. I can do minor repairs but repairs I cannot do myself would probably result in me sending any washer to the landfill (it's just not cost effective).

Hope that helps.


Post# 1066227 , Reply# 4   4/6/2020 at 12:51 (1,451 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
PinkPower4:  In the end, the bearings and seals will probably be the reason someone replaces either of those models as this is not something the average consumer will repair themselves. I am not sure the SQ is any better than Maytag in that regard for THESE two models.
IMO, and having done just one thus far, replacing the bearings and tub seal (which are part of the transmission) is very easy on a belt-drive VMW.  Any competent DIYer can handle it.

SQ, not so much based on how-to videos I've seen.


Post# 1066262 , Reply# 5   4/6/2020 at 18:21 (1,451 days old) by PinkPower4 (USA)        
DADoES, Good to know...

I remember seeing a few bearing and seal replacements of similar vmw washers thinking *I* might be able to do it. I'm not sure if I could get the seal in there right. As inexpensive as the bearings and seals are, I definitely may give this a go before chunking it. I wouldn't lose much other than the cost of parts.

I just knew I would not be able to change this part out on the SQ. I watched a lot of videos when I was trying to decide if I should try to get the TC5000 model while I could.

The bottom line is THIS Maytag washer is a good washer. Whether I had this or the SQ TC5000, I still would have felt I made compromises. What I wanted was the SQ AWN432 or the old Maytag, and they were nowhere to be found for me. The TR series wouldn't work for us--it was the only SQ available at the time I needed a washer that I could buy.

The SQ is not an option for some people for whatever reason. This Maytag is a good washer. It may not last quite as long, but I didn't pay as much for it either, and it works really well! And it's guaranteed to work at least five years LOL. In today's world, that more than you'll get out of most sold at the big box stores.

I am careful not to overload it, take stuff that shouldn't be washed in it to the laundry mat, and use the correct amount of detergent.

I came here hoping to help someone else, and learned something new myself. Thanks!


Post# 1066283 , Reply# 6   4/6/2020 at 21:34 (1,451 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Washer durability And Repairablity

combo52's profile picture

Between the MT MVWP575 and the SQ TC5000.

 

The SQ will likely last twice as long without any major repairs, likely between 15 to over 30 years , The MT should last 6 to over 20 years.

 

The SQ will be much harder to put a transmission or main bearings and seals in, an eventual failure of either of these is the likely end of the useful life of a SQ TL washer.

 

On the MT it is easier to replace the complete transmission and seal and bearings, but at a cost of almost $300 just for the part very few will brother, especially when the MT will also have or have had a bad lid lock, bad mode shifter, bad struts, to say nothing of the poor quality inlet valve and less durable electronics WP-MT uses.

 

The SQ will likely only need a new belt, possibly an inexpensive water pump or inlet valve in its normal life of 15-30 years.

 

General things that affect the overall repair rate and total life expectancy of almost ant AW.

 

Under loading is far more harmful than doing less really full loads, it is far better to do four big loads than 6 smaller ones, any washer will only run so many times before it breaks down.

 

Using too LITTLE detergent is the other most common abuse of a washer, this also includes using cheap detergents, most users underuse detergents, in our experience and testing it is almost impossible to use too much detergent so as to hurt the machine.

 

Other factors are not spilling bleach and detergent on the machine and cleaning up any spills promptly, when adding detergent to a TL washer just poor in one spot, don't sprinkle it around [ you are not baking a cake, LOL ] Using too cold a wash water temperature also can lead to gunky build ups that lead to mold and corrosion of seals and other parts.

 

John L.


Post# 1066312 , Reply# 7   4/7/2020 at 05:33 (1,451 days old) by PinkPower4 (USA)        
For the average consumer...

The SQ is only repairable past 15 years maybe 20 years to those who have access to get the parts for cost and can do the work themselves. The average consumer does not have access to parts for cost nor can they afford someone to do the work for them where the cost of the part is marked up, service call, and labor.

AND

I also think that number of over 15 or 20 years is more accurate in a household where the washer received lighter use i.e. used for adults instead of a family for someone who can ALSO perform the repairs or get the machine repaired. It will likely need a transmission, seals, and bearings to continue past this point.

If I were purchasing this SQ TC5000 today, I would not expect anything more than 15 years.

I was able to get 15 years out of dual-action agitator Whirlpool from the 90s, which is typical for the average consumer with a family and how they would use it, and this was a much BETTER washer. If you have one of these older ones, it is worth it to PAY someone to keep it going even if you cannot do the work yourself.

The SQs sold today are NOT the AWN432. They are full of electronics that in my opinion only add to the risk of failure and do not really add any benefits. In fact, they make it less user-friendly for me. It is like comparing apples to oranges. They are similar in both are round (or the same brand, in this case), but they are not the same. I agree with the majority that the SQ is still probably the most durable on the market today. Not everyone can get one for whatever reason. It's not a SQ or nothing. The Maytag IS a good washer and should last about ten years (five of it covered by a parts and labor warranty). Even if it quits at 5 years and one day, that washer easily pays for itself in less than ONE year at my house. I dislike that people are made to feel like anything else is inferior.

From what I understand this TC5 model a time-limited edition with TWO model-specific control boards. While I do believe the control boards themselves are built better, I would not expect them to last 30 years. There are too many variables i.e. issues caused by power fluctuations and stuff that can take them out. The parts will be more difficult to find even for those who can keep the other parts going. Those who are selling these control boards to consumers will likely do so at inflated prices.

While I think the SQ TC5 washes well, the dual-action agitator on the Maytag turns clothes over and moves them through the water better especially with bulkier items like comforters. The SQ is more durable, but I really believe with all of my heart that the typical consumer will not get more than 15 maybe 20 years (that's a stretch) out of that washer. Realistically, I expect about ten out of the Maytag. The minor repairs are inexpensive, parts easy to find, and easy for me to do myself.

In the case of SQ front loads, it is true they may last twice as long. However, they also cost TWICE the price too. I would probably get an LG maybe a Whirlpool if buying a front load today. My LG worked well especially with a slight water adjustment for everything but bulkier items. I had no issues with mold.

I will be curious to see what SQ does with their line of washers after 2020. If they are going forward ONLY with the TR series as is, I do not see how they will survive in the residential market. The TR series may last longer than the average washer, but I buy a washer so I can have clean clothes. I would pick the Maytag I have any day over the TR series. Ten years of having a machine that can clean clothes is better than twenty years of a machine that doesn't clean the type of loads *I* need to wash (kid, pet, outdoor wear, technical trade, etc. in addition to office attire). If SQ quits selling to the residential market, I wonder what will happen with those ten-year warranties. Will places that no longer sell SQ still repair them like they do now???

I would gladly pay $1000 to have my old Whirlpool. Even the TC5 is NOT that.

We have become a throwaway society with sealed laptops, printers, appliances, etc. It needs to change. Which company is going to be responsible and step up to do the right thing?


Post# 1066314 , Reply# 8   4/7/2020 at 05:43 (1,451 days old) by PinkPower4 (USA)        
P.S.

My post is not directed at any one person. I am just frustrated. As a single parent, it has been a real struggle and expense to fix/replace these disposable items. It's like a snowball going down hill. When is someone going to wake up and see the waste in our landfills, chemicals in our waterways, additional electricity used, and wasted time.

In the case of the washer machines, they had it right! For those who want the fancy electronics, they can still have that too.

:-(



Post# 1066354 , Reply# 9   4/7/2020 at 10:55 (1,450 days old) by SimonOo (Montreal)        

Wow, thanks for the great replies on here.

I am still waiting to hear back from one of the only local places to carry the Speed Queen TC5, but it's been 2 weeks and nothing yet. It is a hard time for most businesses and many are closed, so it's understandable. In the meantime, the Maytag commercial set has gone up $400 CAD. I believe it has to do with the exchange rate.

At the end of the day I'm looking for longevity - I prefer to fix things than to replace them. I do want new appliances however, so I am still undecided between these two models, and the LG WM3900H. I would prefer the top load because I want them to last longer, but if the lifespan is all the same, I will go with the LG because of the larger capacity.

Thanks again for all replies


Post# 1066368 , Reply# 10   4/7/2020 at 14:23 (1,450 days old) by SimonOo (Montreal)        

Has anybody ever heard of the MAT20MNAWW ?

Seems like the true commercial version of this, but seems to have the same specs


Post# 1066380 , Reply# 11   4/7/2020 at 16:52 (1,450 days old) by eurekastar (Amarillo, Texas)        

eurekastar's profile picture

The MAT20MNAWW has a smaller porcelain tub, where home version has a larger stainless steel tub.  I personally would avoid both.  I had the home version and it worked well for a while.  Then the gearbox had to be replaced under warranty but they had to take into their shop to do the repair.  After that, I had two other warranty repairs in quick succession.  Maybe it was just my particular machine.  Its wash action was impressive but it was too repair prone.


Post# 1066408 , Reply# 12   4/7/2020 at 22:36 (1,450 days old) by PinkPower4 (USA)        
About the MAT20MNAWW

I don't think this model has the dual-action agitator or the fabric softener dispenser. A Downy ball might work.

I don't use fabric softener anyway. Over time, it seems like it can build up in hidden areas.



Post# 1066423 , Reply# 13   4/8/2020 at 07:02 (1,450 days old) by SimonOo (Montreal)        

Eurekastar, I read your threads about the issues you have and it is one of the main reasons I am skeptical about this washer. It offers most of what I am looking for - I am wondering if you got a lemon, or if this is a widespread issue...

Pinkpower, did you have any issues with yours?

I'm still hoping to get a hold of the TC5 but given the times, I think it will be tough. Most places that sell Huebsch (Speed Queen) only have the TR models in stock, and I don't want anything to do with them.

The Maytag is priced better, but my main concern is reliability and long term durability.



Post# 1066750 , Reply# 14   4/10/2020 at 10:04 (1,448 days old) by SimonOo (Montreal)        

Thanks to all that helped

I was able to get the Huebsch (Speed Queen) TC5 set on order.

$3200 CAD and the store paid the taxes. I think in the long run this will be better than the $2500 for the Maytag Commercial grade set.

Here’s hoping my new washer and dryer last a long time! Can’t wait to get them in July.


Post# 1066858 , Reply# 15   4/11/2020 at 06:36 (1,447 days old) by PinkPower4 (USA)        
No issues...

I have not had any issues with mine. Although I think the SQ TC5 has the overall edge if budget is not a factor, the MT575 is a hidden gem among the other top load residential washers that are available to most of us. The extra cost is more than justified when compared to other options in the big box stores. Better build quality and included five year parts and labor.

Will be interested to see how you like your new set. Sorry for the delayed response.


Post# 1066907 , Reply# 16   4/11/2020 at 12:01 (1,446 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
New Huebsch [ SQ ] TC5 W&D

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Hi Simon, these are a great pick, IMEO these machines will last approximately twice as long as the 5 year warranted MT pair, there is not going to be that much difference with durability on the dryers but as I have stated before the SQ washer will have up to 2-3 times the life expectancy of the flimsy poorly built MT washer.

When you compare the basic structure between the MTs and the SQs there is no comparison, you can stand on the SQs without bending and denting the tops and cabinets, it is heavy construction quality like this that is the reason we still see so many MTs from the 70s-the early 2000s still in good physical condition and often worth fixing.

We installed 8 SQ AWN432s in an apartment complex in 2013, these machines are for free unlimited use by residents [ and I have often seen non residents dragging huge bags of laundry in the back door who don't even live there ] These machines are easily doing 25-35 loads a day each 24 hours a day, there are always people waiting to use them.

That is 150+ loads a week, at least 7,800 loads a year and 54,000 loads so far.

Each of the washers have been repaired once on average [ minor things a belt, something stuck in a pump, maybe one timer and at least one inlet valve ] recently two of the washers have had major failures, one a bad main seal the other a failing transmission because of the expense of repairing these the management company just had us install two new SQs.

Because we have extra shop time on our hands right now Jason and I replaced the bearings and seal on one and the transmission on the other. The amazing thing is both machines cleaned up and looked nearly new, the cabinets are rust free and the finish on the tops and lids looked fine.

I sold both of them the next week, one went into a million dollar + home in Chevy Chase Md. to replace a WP Cabrio VHM [ basically the same machine as the MT 575 ] machine that only lasted 7 years @ around 10 loads a week, I have no dough that this customer will get more than 7 years use out of this SQ that has already done 50,000+ loads. The other rebuilt SQ went to a friend who will only do 4-6 loads a week and will probably last another 10-15 years.

John L.


Post# 1066964 , Reply# 17   4/11/2020 at 19:52 (1,446 days old) by SimonOo (Montreal)        

Thanks Pinkpower and John for the replies.


I think the Maytag looks great, but I want something that’s going to last. The Maytag looks great and offers a good performance from what I’ve seen, but I want the durability of the SQ. In my residential setting it will be well kept for and should last many years. It also takes less water than the Maytag, which is a plus for me. Glad I could find one!

Truth be told I don’t even enjoy doing laundry, but once I started shopping for a washer and dryer I couldn’t believe the sorry state of appliances. I don’t accept that things are disposable and needed to find a set that would last.

Thanks to all that helped.


Post# 1066971 , Reply# 18   4/11/2020 at 20:41 (1,446 days old) by patcherd2 (NJ)        

Have my Speed Queen 7 years now this past March. Been in a basement all that time and runs and still looks like new. Bought the AWN432 in 2013 and it's still going strong. I don't know what grade of paint they used but these are the best non-porcelain coated tops I have seen in a washer. When I wipe the machine down it still looks shiny.

Post# 1067019 , Reply# 19   4/12/2020 at 05:12 (1,446 days old) by PinkPower4 (USA)        
Cycles and Electronics

I read the SQ suggested life cycle is 10,500. I have no doubt the older SQ will outlast the newer vmw, but the AWN432 and older mechanical models are NO longer available for sale. I believe that most older SQ properly used probably reach that number but not exceed it by the number of cycles claimed above, which seem unrealistic especially given the abuse they take. There just is no way the bearings and seals, transmission, etc. could last for five times the number of cycles even SQ says they’ll last. Maybe, I read that wrong. Perhaps, their true use is not that much. I can’t remember reading about one consumer model even much older that lasted that long with that much use. A typical consumer does not wash 24/7. So one would have to look at older models with same number of life cycles as being claimed above. They are far and free between and not without having had repairs done, the 70s and 80s models. Here you have EIGHT that have taken several SQ’s stated lifetimes of abuse in a few short years? They are the only eight I have read about. I had to have read that wrong. I apologize if I have.

The examples given above are also older models withOUT electronics. SQ has had issues with some of these, and that is only covered by three years except for the lucky folks who got in on the 10-Year deal.

There have been issues with the control board on some of the MT575 too.

I see no added value to the consumer for those who wanted the basic no frills all mechanical models. In fact, one has less options and control over cycles because of poorly researched government mandates.

I personally hope SQ figure out a way to at least keep the TC5 in their lineup, but I really wish they could bring the AWN .

Does the Cabrio mentioned above have the same upgraded parts? As far as I know it doesn’t come off the same line the MT575 does, but I could be wrong.

I do think the SQ transmission will outlast the one on Maytag but this washer is not the piece of junk you make it out to be. These two washers are no different than cars. Not everyone can afford a Toyota or may have that option where they live, but that doesn’t mean all Fords are junk either. The less expensive Fords just won’t last as long but they are still a good value for the dollar. This is worth repeating. Good value for the dollar today. There are NO washers made today like the ones I owned in the past. And I would choose a MT575 all day every day over the TR series, so I hope SQ has a plan B.

It is OK to give consumers information to make an informed choice, but this al or nothing approach doesn’t help the consumer make the choice right for them or their circumstances.


Post# 1067028 , Reply# 20   4/12/2020 at 07:06 (1,446 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
1 Year Old Maytag Commercial 575 Transmission

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This is out of a MT 575 that we sold to a veterinary hospital, it gets run 10-15 loads a day, after just over 1 year it stopped agitating, you could hear the gears slipping in the plastic gear case. We put in a complete new transmission about 1 year ago and it is still working [ so far ]

 

My Brother maintains 16 of these commercial [ quality ] coin-op Mts in a nearby condo building, he has replaced many transmission assemblies, these are simply not commercial grade washers.

 

Hi Pink, The current SQ TC5 are the same as the AWN432, and should last even longer, SQ recently replaced the plastic main drive pulley with a metal pulley for example.

 

I do not believe my numbers of loads are exaggerated at all, we maintain many similar buildings, hair solons, health clubs etc and I always ask how many loads they do a day to analyze life spans failures etc.

 

Pink, how many loads do you think a commercial TL coin-op SQ in a coin-op laundromat run a day ? In theory in a 24 hour place they could run almost 50 loads a day, in reality it is going to be 15-30 and when people are paying $2-2.50 a load you know these machines are stuffed pretty full and yet these machines typically last around 10 years in commercial use with not much servicing.

 

Over the last 2 years a lot of the McDonalds restaurants in our area all bought the new TR3000, these are only getting 3-5 loads a day and so far no mechanical failures, but the grease that goes through these washers is amazing. They use these to clean the cloth towels they use to clean and the mop heads, they can not have dryers because the residual grease in towels would cause spontaneous combustion and cause fires.

 

John L.


Post# 1067032 , Reply# 21   4/12/2020 at 07:22 (1,446 days old) by Combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        

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Post# 1067043 , Reply# 22   4/12/2020 at 08:56 (1,446 days old) by PinkPower4 (USA)        
I don't they will last five times longer...

Your post suggests that the SQ TC5 will last FIVE times loner than what even SQ states. That does not seem credible.

The real average user will get no more than fifteen maybe twenty years out of this TC5 washer. The little old lady, single guy, or couples may get thirty or more years out of it. The life expectancy is not so much years but how many cycles the washer is ran. In general, families do more loads of laundry every week than the little old lady. A family getting more than fifteen to twenty years is the exception and should not be expected.

The average consumer cannot replace the bearings/seals themselves or the transmission on that model. We canNOT get the parts for cost, have no maintenance contracts where that is covered, or can afford to pay someone else to do it because we are unable to repair the machines ourselves. With that said, I would seriously consider paying someone to repair an older, mechanical machine now that I see what is out there including the TC5.

I honestly don't know if *I* could replace just the bearing/seals on the MT575, but it looks easier. I think I could replace the whole outer tub assembly with bearing/seals probably for less than a repair technician would charge me just for bearings/seals. I do think I could replace the transmission. I will consider replacing those major parts especially if I get decent life out of these parts before they fail. I will weigh that cost versus what is available on the market at the time I need to buy again. Only the TR series was available when I made my purchase. It doesn't make "cents" to replace a washer that is working.

The main issue may be finding control boards for what seems to be a time-limited model later. Right now, it looks like 2020 is the last year folks can get this tC5 model. Electronics can and do fail. However, I like that the TC5 remains simplistic other than those two control boards--no ATC. I don't buy the marketing gimmick for that. Just another part to break on the Maytag.

I agree the Maytag despite its name is not commercial quality build. However, it is a better build quality than any other top load excluding the TC5 residential customers have access too.

I cannot think of any electronic devices in my lifetime that has been more reliable than the tried and true mechanical version. Less is MORE. The TC5 has electronics. It remains to be seen whether it will last as long as older models, but I do think it is the most likely to last the longest among top loads that can be purchased today.

For those who cannot get the SQ TC5, there are other options out there that will clean your clothes, but they are limited. One is this Maytag MT575 and the other is a budget model that is manufactured under different names (Amana, Roper, Conservator?) that has a dual agitator. It also has the vmw design but doesn't have the upgraded parts or the warranty of the MT. They won't last as long, but people don't pay as much for them. If consumer have the correct information on the products, they can make the best choice for them. Saying it's all or nothing does not help someone who cannot afford the SQ TC5 (they vary significantly in price where I live depending on the retailer) or where it is not available in their area.

Most importantly, SQ blacklisted Lorain Furniture for an honest review. Are there any examples where Maytag, LG, Samsung, Whirlpool, etc. have done this? Every one of those companies have SIGNIFICANTLY more negative reviews that are just as damaging. It's not defamation of character when it's based on truth. I agree, the washers available today are NOT the ones I remember. HE comes at an expense to our waterways, resources, and time.




Post# 1067052 , Reply# 23   4/12/2020 at 10:46 (1,445 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Washer Life Expectancy

combo52's profile picture

Hi Pink, You simply don't have any bassist's for your remarks, you say that the average home user will only get 15-20 years out of a SQ TC5, SQ even advertises that the average family will get 25 years out of it which is conservative by our experience.

 

I have said many times that SQs will NOT get repaired in the field if the main bearing and seal or transmission fail, however in our experience 90% of SQs will not have a failure in these areas in a 25 year home use situation. Probably only about 10% of MT 575 will get a new $300 transmission in the 5-10 year time range if it fails, after around 10 years few people will spend this kind of money just for a part either.

 

Life expectancy of a new washer is dependent mainly on number of loads washed and TIME, you can take any decent new car today and start driving back and forth across the country and pile up 500,000 miles with very few problems, yet the average new car today will be junked well before the odometer reaches 200,000 miles.

 

Since you won't believe someone with experience I suggest to go interview SQ commercial laundry owners and see how many loads a year their machines do, almost all SQ commercial machines have electronic control systems that keep track of # of loads run.

 

John L.


Post# 1067057 , Reply# 24   4/12/2020 at 11:30 (1,445 days old) by PinkPower4 (USA)        
You're suggesting the SQ is a family heirloom...

The old ones may have lasted 25 years, but that would be doing 420 loads a year or 8 or 9 loads a week. I think that is possible BUT so could the old Maytags. If the NEW ones with electronics can do that, that would be great. It would really put them ahead of the competition now, but what happens at the end of 2020? I don't care if the TR series does last me 25 years if it cannot clean the types of loads I do.

The vet clinic. I wonder if they used bleach in every single load? Wouldn't that decrease the life of that machine. So many variable in the examples you gave.

BUT you are saying these OLD ones can do 50,000 cycles. That would out live anybody if they bought this machine at birth. That part of your post is not credible.

I think the other parts of your post is good information.

In the end it doesn't matter to me. I just hope someone else doesn't buy the SQ TC5 and expect it to be passed down from generation to generation for 50,000 cycles without any major repairs. I think it is the most likely to last the longest of the toploads, but I still think the Maytag mv575gw is a good machine that will last 10 to 15 years.

I notice you did not address the blacklisting issue either. Cultural, social, psychological motivations, and personal motivations all play a role in what product we purchase. Durability and manufacturer reputation are two key components in this decision. Although Maytag does produce other inferior models, I have not seen any examples of them threatening reviewers and blacklisting people.

Not everyone has the money to purchase a SQ TC5 nor is it available in their area. Tell them the pros and cons and let them decide what works for them and their budget.


Post# 1067067 , Reply# 25   4/12/2020 at 12:57 (1,445 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
A *very* rough estimate, I currently may do an average of 1.5 loads per week.  I don't usually run any given type of load until I'm nearly out of some sort of clean item that goes into said load ... except sheets/bedding and specialty situations such as a jacket or sofa/chair throws.  Raise it to 2 loads per week, 104 loads per year.  50,000 cycles is 480 years.


Post# 1067112 , Reply# 26   4/12/2020 at 18:08 (1,445 days old) by Brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia)        

Hi John,

Have the seals been improved since the rayethon days?

Here they were sold domestically for residential use from 1990 onwards, badges as Kleenmaid. They only managed 10-15 years of life generally before the lower seal failed and by which time paint was peeling off the lid. The ones made from the late 90s onwards seemed to fail within 10 years.

Are they that much better now?

Cheers

Nathan


Post# 1067124 , Reply# 27   4/12/2020 at 19:16 (1,445 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Washer Life Expectancy

combo52's profile picture

Hi Pink and Glenn,   Reread paragraph #3 in reply#23, Time plays a major role as to how long almost any mechanical object will last.

 

An AW will not last 500 or even 100 years although we have seen many that have lasted 30-40 and even some going on 50 years.

 

I think the practical limit is something around 30-50 unless really major repairs and rebuilding is done.

 

The thing we do know is current SQ laundry equipment is very rugged and designed for easy repair of common problems, We also know that like many things today the quality control that goes into building new appliances has NEVER been better than today, then add in that the materials used in a new SQ are better any WP, GE or MT washer at any time in the last 60 years. Everything from the quality of wiring, rubber hoses, high quality finishes and on and on.

 

 

Hi Nathan, SQ redesigned the main tub seal in their TL washers around 15 years ago, the terrible seal that was used in the 80s had a lip type seal that ran on the aluminum basket hub, as you can imagine the aluminum corroded and wore pretty fast in many cases and it was all over pretty quickly when water got into the bearings [ Amana and the Amana tags had the same terrible design flaw ] and we all know how durable those washer were. Alliance raised the seal in the outer tub and added a SS sleeve to the aluminum basket hub, this type of seal design is extremely durable.

 

SQ in the 80s switched to a non porcelain top and lid on most models and the original finish did very poorly, we have yet to see even a tiny bit of rust on an Alliance built washer or dryer [ I have a SQ double stack dryer that has been sitting outside in the weather for 7 years now and it still looks like new, and if I find someone that wants a double stack electric dryer I could easily clean it up and sell it ]

 

Hi Pink, you asked about SQ dropping a dealer in Ohio because of tests they ran that SQ viewed as negative to their new washer.

 

In every sales agreement I have ever seen you are forbidden from disparaging the product you are selling, MT and WP would do the same thing, if you have a problem with this write SQ a letter, I have nothing to do with this.

 

In full disclosure I do not have any stock in SQ or any friends or relatives that work there.

 

John L.


Post# 1067181 , Reply# 28   4/13/2020 at 08:27 (1,445 days old) by PinkPower4 (USA)        
John, fair point.

This reviewer seems pretty unbiased in his comments, and I've not seen any other company take action. While something may be legal, there is a difference between exercising your rights versus morality. It is the difference between a company that has good leadership and management and one that doesn't. Legal just means SQ exercised the rights they could. Morality is distinguishing between right and wrong and good and bad behavior. The bottom line is if this product is THAT good, a company doesn't have defend it against one shop owner. It wasn't one shop owner. Anyone that washes work uniforms, kids' clothing, pet stuff, workout clothes, etc. can see the difference. However, SQ poorly choice to make an example of that person because they could. I really hope SQ has a plan B if the TC5 model cannot continue to be sold after 2020.

SQ's actions make others reviewers seem less credible. Are they saying good things about the product because they feel compelled to, or are they concerned about getting threatened by a company much bigger than theirs? Trust me. I understand. As a single parent, there is no plan B for income for my household. Sometimes, it is difficult to speak up and say the right thing because of fear of repercussion.

When a company responds this way, I don't have much faith as a consumer to take my concerns to them directly.

It is called being responsive to constructive criticism. Some of our best products have come from the failure of others. I am sure SQ will make something good of this. They just handled it wrong. I really want them too. I am tired of fixing and replacing appliances like I do socks.

While I think Maytag has the upper edge here, I wish that Maytag would at least upgrade the parts in their vmws that are sold at the big box stores. The real fix is to just go back to what works. They are damaging their reputation by continuing to produce inferior products.

GE made a stab at it with their direct drive, but it seems to get out-of-balance with normal loads and the spray rinse doesn't even land on the clothing?

It's like watching a pin-the-tail on the donkey game. No one is even close to hitting the piñata these days. They need to just take the blindfolds off.

John, I appreciate your detailed information. It was really helpful.


Post# 1067183 , Reply# 29   4/13/2020 at 08:44 (1,445 days old) by PinkPower4 (USA)        
Small correction...

I should have used the term posters and not reviewer. There are several regulars who offer good advice, but I wonder how much they feel compelled to say and what is left out for fear of repercussions whether they review, sell, or repair these products for a living. Anyway, my intention was not to restrict this comment only to people who are known to review products. This information and time it takes is sincerely appreciated . I balance it with other information like consumer reviews too.

Post# 1067234 , Reply# 30   4/13/2020 at 17:58 (1,444 days old) by speedqueen (Metro-Detroit)        

speedqueen's profile picture
There is quite a big difference between being service friendly and rarely needing service.

Whirlpool has always built products that are service friendly(yes even the old belt drives, just compare them to a SQ solid tub and tell me which you'd rather work on), however these new machines aren't build well at all. Even the "commercial" models are rather flimsy, they will *need* far more service than a Speed Queen will and far earlier. Parts cost means little unless one is doing the work themselves or there is an extra ordinary difference in cost between two parts from make to make. If a repair is to be done, the bulk of the cost will be the service call charge itself and or labor. If you have a VMW based machine, whatever ease you have in getting cheap parts will be negated by the need to have them installed more frequently.

You seem to get very concerned about the electronics in the TC5, but not so about the electronics in the MVWP575. Speed Queen has used almost the same control system in commercial coin-op machines for 30 years, they interface the motor and fill solenoids with relays, very simple technology, compared to the motor reversing and sensing systems employed in the Maytag, likely controlled by power transistors of some sort.


Post# 1067289 , Reply# 31   4/14/2020 at 07:19 (1,444 days old) by PinkPower4 (USA)        
Speedqueen, in a nutshell...

Please go back and read my posts.

The SpeedQueen TC5 would be my overall first choice. I do think it will last longer with fewer repairs (probably just a belt) than the Maytag 575. I think it is possible it will last 25 years for some folks, but I believe the average family will get 15 or maybe 20 years out of it before it needs MAJOR repairs. I have said that several times. There is no other top load on the market that i think will last this long as the SQ.

I think it is still probably a question of how long the transmission, bearings/seals, and control boards will last that will determine that on either machine. Most folks cannot replace the transmission and bearings/seals themselves. Not only do they pay more for the part, but they have to pay labor for someone to install it. The consumer can replace the control board, but the cost of it to the consumer is significant when compared to the cost of the machine and the TC5 has TWO. If you read the repair boards, you will see they are not without some issues with the control boards and other parts that break. This happens with all models (and you will see a lot more in the cheaper big box store ones!). I have also said, I haven't seen enough in regard to the TC5 models to concern me...yet. This model has only been out since May 2019? It does not appear to be widespread. I also think the SQ control boards will last longer.

The parts you are talking about in the MT575, I can replace myself. The actuator is also the reason this washer is not an agitub design. I'll take that tradeoff any day all day. They aren't that much.

Getting parts later for the TC5 may be a concern. It appears to be a time-limited model. The MT575 shares its parts with other models made for commercial use. It may cost more down the road to maintain, but it does look more likely I can keep this one going if i want to. Most of you on this board have access to connections, parts for cost, have the skills to repair themselves, etc. Not everyone does.

The examples I've seen of the MT failing seem to be where it was used for commercial use. Despite its name, it's not commercial build quality. I would not recommend it for a vet's office.
However, it built better than any other top load in the big box stores (SQ is NOT sold there). I think consumers can expect to see at least ten years out of this machine; I think some may see 15. It's not the piece of junk SQ focused fans make it out to be.

I don't think the TC5 will be a family heirloom that will be passed down from generation to generation and get more than five times the life that even the manufacturer has claimed. Even the older ones were not. I think this is misleading.

Why does SQ only offer a three-year warranty? If they are THAT much better, then offer a warranty that reflects that on the TC5 model. The piece of junk everyone makes it out to be comes with a FIVE year parts and labor. Why did SQ feel the need to take on a shop owner in regard to their TR series review? No one else has, and this person is unbiased in whatever brand I've seen him review. If their product, the TR series, was that good there was no need to defend it and threaten action against one shop owner. He is just one shop owner. If his claims were bogus, people would quickly figure that out for themselves. They aren't bogus, and that's why we have the TC5 today. It cleans work uniforms, kid wear, pet stuff, outdoor clothing, etc. better. For those who want premium clean with it, use the delicate cycle. It was a poorly thought out decision on SQ by management and leadership that were reactive instead of proactive. Just because it's legal, doesn't mean it is the right decision.

I do think the MT575 is worth the extra cost when compared to the budget models that have the dual agitator sold under different names (Amana, Roper, Conservator, etc.) because of the upgraded parts and FIVE year parts and labor warranty. I do think it is the second best overall top load on the market today, but I think it's the it's number one when it comes to cleaning performance.

It may use a little more water than the SQ, but it also has a slightly bigger tub capacity.

I agree there is a gap between the SQ models and the rest of the top loads with this MT575 seeming to fall somewhere in between for the mid-level price range and their budget models with dual agitator for the low-price range. Why no manufacturer has stepped up to seize that opportunity remains a mystery to me.

Bottom line. It's a Toyota family car versus a Ford. Both will get you where you are going. In the long run, SQ will be a better value for the dollar, but that doesn't mean Ford won't be a good value for the dollar. THIS Ford.


Post# 1067862 , Reply# 32   4/17/2020 at 21:36 (1,440 days old) by speedqueen (Metro-Detroit)        

speedqueen's profile picture
Just for the record, I want to post that despite my name here on this forum, I'm no Speed Queen fan boy. My name is in reference to my dream machine which I now own, a 1957 model A19, pictured below.

Now to talk longevity, I will agree that the modern TC Speed Queens will not be family heirloom, however in most service I think they will go a couple decades, but they're no center dial Maytag, that's for sure, and my old '57 makes both the 575 and the TC5 look like cheap Shark vacuums quality wise. But I must say it is the second least engineered device I own second to my 1958 Wheel Horse garden tractor which I believe the design process involved too much angle iron and a welder. It is a nightmare to work on and pull the motor/fluid drive assembly out, and the pot metal pumps aren't the least bit confidence inspiring.

Now to talk modern Speed Queen's downsides, they go through more belts than an old Whirlpool or the old solid tubs did(mine had it's original belts until a few months ago), however they are much improved compared to the Raytheon era. Transmissions are passable, far better than anything else on the market, but again they aren't like the solid tub models, the old Whirlpools(BD or DD) or Maytags. I do believe that surprisingly the electronic controlled models have had more reliability than the old timers could manage.

To sum up, they aren't the best ever made, but the LAST built anywhere close to how they are. The pinnacle of engineering in this field of design were the Maytags from the 1960s-2006 and the 1982-2010 Whirlpool direct drives.

I agree, the modern Maytag is a good machine for those who won't really use it that much, it offers a good value for money, but frankly so does the TC5. When one considers what household goods used to cost back when everything was like my 1957, it's amazing anything remotely comparable can be built for as cheaply as it is. Mine cost $350 in 1957 which is, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics equivalent to $3,273.20 today.



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Post# 1068550 , Reply# 33   4/21/2020 at 20:42 (1,436 days old) by Supersurgilator (Indiana)        

I looked at the Maytag as well when it first came out. Its a nice machine, but I ended up getting a TC5000 last October. II have absolutely NO regrets at all for choosing this machine. I also wanted quality and something that will last a long time and I feel I got that with the SQ. Washing performance is great, and I like that it is a true old school washer. My one main concern about the Maytag is the hanging suspension system that modern toploaders use. I just don't trust it and feel it is cheap and could break causing the basket to go flying. The SQ has a very nice smooth spin.
I wouldn't really be concerned about finding parts for the TC5000 either since they still make the commercial on premise model, as well as coin op models that are very similar to this. Belts are about the only thing I really hear about needing to be replaced on these.



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