Thread Number: 82490
/ Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Maytag 'Commercial' MVWP575GW Water use / long term issues |
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Post# 1065984 , Reply# 1   4/5/2020 at 00:29 (1,453 days old) by speedqueen (Metro-Detroit)   |   | |
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Post# 1066000 , Reply# 2   4/5/2020 at 06:21 (1,453 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc)   |   | |
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Looks like this "whirltag" is one of those miserable VMW machines.Have one and HATE IT!!!Will get a DD,SQ or something else next washer time!!! |
Post# 1066227 , Reply# 4   4/6/2020 at 12:51 (1,451 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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PinkPower4: In the end, the bearings and seals will probably be the reason someone replaces either of those models as this is not something the average consumer will repair themselves. I am not sure the SQ is any better than Maytag in that regard for THESE two models.IMO, and having done just one thus far, replacing the bearings and tub seal (which are part of the transmission) is very easy on a belt-drive VMW. Any competent DIYer can handle it. SQ, not so much based on how-to videos I've seen. |
Post# 1066283 , Reply# 6   4/6/2020 at 21:34 (1,451 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Between the MT MVWP575 and the SQ TC5000.
The SQ will likely last twice as long without any major repairs, likely between 15 to over 30 years , The MT should last 6 to over 20 years.
The SQ will be much harder to put a transmission or main bearings and seals in, an eventual failure of either of these is the likely end of the useful life of a SQ TL washer.
On the MT it is easier to replace the complete transmission and seal and bearings, but at a cost of almost $300 just for the part very few will brother, especially when the MT will also have or have had a bad lid lock, bad mode shifter, bad struts, to say nothing of the poor quality inlet valve and less durable electronics WP-MT uses.
The SQ will likely only need a new belt, possibly an inexpensive water pump or inlet valve in its normal life of 15-30 years.
General things that affect the overall repair rate and total life expectancy of almost ant AW.
Under loading is far more harmful than doing less really full loads, it is far better to do four big loads than 6 smaller ones, any washer will only run so many times before it breaks down.
Using too LITTLE detergent is the other most common abuse of a washer, this also includes using cheap detergents, most users underuse detergents, in our experience and testing it is almost impossible to use too much detergent so as to hurt the machine.
Other factors are not spilling bleach and detergent on the machine and cleaning up any spills promptly, when adding detergent to a TL washer just poor in one spot, don't sprinkle it around [ you are not baking a cake, LOL ] Using too cold a wash water temperature also can lead to gunky build ups that lead to mold and corrosion of seals and other parts.
John L. |
Post# 1066368 , Reply# 10   4/7/2020 at 14:23 (1,450 days old) by SimonOo (Montreal)   |   | |
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Has anybody ever heard of the MAT20MNAWW ? Seems like the true commercial version of this, but seems to have the same specs |
Post# 1066380 , Reply# 11   4/7/2020 at 16:52 (1,450 days old) by eurekastar (Amarillo, Texas)   |   | |
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The MAT20MNAWW has a smaller porcelain tub, where home version has a larger stainless steel tub. I personally would avoid both. I had the home version and it worked well for a while. Then the gearbox had to be replaced under warranty but they had to take into their shop to do the repair. After that, I had two other warranty repairs in quick succession. Maybe it was just my particular machine. Its wash action was impressive but it was too repair prone. |
Post# 1066408 , Reply# 12   4/7/2020 at 22:36 (1,450 days old) by PinkPower4 (USA)   |   | |
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I don't think this model has the dual-action agitator or the fabric softener dispenser. A Downy ball might work. I don't use fabric softener anyway. Over time, it seems like it can build up in hidden areas. |
Post# 1066907 , Reply# 16   4/11/2020 at 12:01 (1,446 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Hi Simon, these are a great pick, IMEO these machines will last approximately twice as long as the 5 year warranted MT pair, there is not going to be that much difference with durability on the dryers but as I have stated before the SQ washer will have up to 2-3 times the life expectancy of the flimsy poorly built MT washer.
When you compare the basic structure between the MTs and the SQs there is no comparison, you can stand on the SQs without bending and denting the tops and cabinets, it is heavy construction quality like this that is the reason we still see so many MTs from the 70s-the early 2000s still in good physical condition and often worth fixing. We installed 8 SQ AWN432s in an apartment complex in 2013, these machines are for free unlimited use by residents [ and I have often seen non residents dragging huge bags of laundry in the back door who don't even live there ] These machines are easily doing 25-35 loads a day each 24 hours a day, there are always people waiting to use them. That is 150+ loads a week, at least 7,800 loads a year and 54,000 loads so far. Each of the washers have been repaired once on average [ minor things a belt, something stuck in a pump, maybe one timer and at least one inlet valve ] recently two of the washers have had major failures, one a bad main seal the other a failing transmission because of the expense of repairing these the management company just had us install two new SQs. Because we have extra shop time on our hands right now Jason and I replaced the bearings and seal on one and the transmission on the other. The amazing thing is both machines cleaned up and looked nearly new, the cabinets are rust free and the finish on the tops and lids looked fine. I sold both of them the next week, one went into a million dollar + home in Chevy Chase Md. to replace a WP Cabrio VHM [ basically the same machine as the MT 575 ] machine that only lasted 7 years @ around 10 loads a week, I have no dough that this customer will get more than 7 years use out of this SQ that has already done 50,000+ loads. The other rebuilt SQ went to a friend who will only do 4-6 loads a week and will probably last another 10-15 years. John L. |
Post# 1067028 , Reply# 20   4/12/2020 at 07:06 (1,446 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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This is out of a MT 575 that we sold to a veterinary hospital, it gets run 10-15 loads a day, after just over 1 year it stopped agitating, you could hear the gears slipping in the plastic gear case. We put in a complete new transmission about 1 year ago and it is still working [ so far ]
My Brother maintains 16 of these commercial [ quality ] coin-op Mts in a nearby condo building, he has replaced many transmission assemblies, these are simply not commercial grade washers.
Hi Pink, The current SQ TC5 are the same as the AWN432, and should last even longer, SQ recently replaced the plastic main drive pulley with a metal pulley for example.
I do not believe my numbers of loads are exaggerated at all, we maintain many similar buildings, hair solons, health clubs etc and I always ask how many loads they do a day to analyze life spans failures etc.
Pink, how many loads do you think a commercial TL coin-op SQ in a coin-op laundromat run a day ? In theory in a 24 hour place they could run almost 50 loads a day, in reality it is going to be 15-30 and when people are paying $2-2.50 a load you know these machines are stuffed pretty full and yet these machines typically last around 10 years in commercial use with not much servicing.
Over the last 2 years a lot of the McDonalds restaurants in our area all bought the new TR3000, these are only getting 3-5 loads a day and so far no mechanical failures, but the grease that goes through these washers is amazing. They use these to clean the cloth towels they use to clean and the mop heads, they can not have dryers because the residual grease in towels would cause spontaneous combustion and cause fires.
John L. |
Post# 1067032 , Reply# 21   4/12/2020 at 07:22 (1,446 days old) by Combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Post# 1067052 , Reply# 23   4/12/2020 at 10:46 (1,445 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Hi Pink, You simply don't have any bassist's for your remarks, you say that the average home user will only get 15-20 years out of a SQ TC5, SQ even advertises that the average family will get 25 years out of it which is conservative by our experience.
I have said many times that SQs will NOT get repaired in the field if the main bearing and seal or transmission fail, however in our experience 90% of SQs will not have a failure in these areas in a 25 year home use situation. Probably only about 10% of MT 575 will get a new $300 transmission in the 5-10 year time range if it fails, after around 10 years few people will spend this kind of money just for a part either.
Life expectancy of a new washer is dependent mainly on number of loads washed and TIME, you can take any decent new car today and start driving back and forth across the country and pile up 500,000 miles with very few problems, yet the average new car today will be junked well before the odometer reaches 200,000 miles.
Since you won't believe someone with experience I suggest to go interview SQ commercial laundry owners and see how many loads a year their machines do, almost all SQ commercial machines have electronic control systems that keep track of # of loads run.
John L. |
Post# 1067067 , Reply# 25   4/12/2020 at 12:57 (1,445 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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A *very* rough estimate, I currently may do an average of 1.5 loads per week. I don't usually run any given type of load until I'm nearly out of some sort of clean item that goes into said load ... except sheets/bedding and specialty situations such as a jacket or sofa/chair throws. Raise it to 2 loads per week, 104 loads per year. 50,000 cycles is 480 years. |
Post# 1067124 , Reply# 27   4/12/2020 at 19:16 (1,445 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Hi Pink and Glenn, Reread paragraph #3 in reply#23, Time plays a major role as to how long almost any mechanical object will last.
An AW will not last 500 or even 100 years although we have seen many that have lasted 30-40 and even some going on 50 years.
I think the practical limit is something around 30-50 unless really major repairs and rebuilding is done.
The thing we do know is current SQ laundry equipment is very rugged and designed for easy repair of common problems, We also know that like many things today the quality control that goes into building new appliances has NEVER been better than today, then add in that the materials used in a new SQ are better any WP, GE or MT washer at any time in the last 60 years. Everything from the quality of wiring, rubber hoses, high quality finishes and on and on.
Hi Nathan, SQ redesigned the main tub seal in their TL washers around 15 years ago, the terrible seal that was used in the 80s had a lip type seal that ran on the aluminum basket hub, as you can imagine the aluminum corroded and wore pretty fast in many cases and it was all over pretty quickly when water got into the bearings [ Amana and the Amana tags had the same terrible design flaw ] and we all know how durable those washer were. Alliance raised the seal in the outer tub and added a SS sleeve to the aluminum basket hub, this type of seal design is extremely durable.
SQ in the 80s switched to a non porcelain top and lid on most models and the original finish did very poorly, we have yet to see even a tiny bit of rust on an Alliance built washer or dryer [ I have a SQ double stack dryer that has been sitting outside in the weather for 7 years now and it still looks like new, and if I find someone that wants a double stack electric dryer I could easily clean it up and sell it ]
Hi Pink, you asked about SQ dropping a dealer in Ohio because of tests they ran that SQ viewed as negative to their new washer.
In every sales agreement I have ever seen you are forbidden from disparaging the product you are selling, MT and WP would do the same thing, if you have a problem with this write SQ a letter, I have nothing to do with this.
In full disclosure I do not have any stock in SQ or any friends or relatives that work there.
John L. |
Post# 1067234 , Reply# 30   4/13/2020 at 17:58 (1,444 days old) by speedqueen (Metro-Detroit)   |   | |
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There is quite a big difference between being service friendly and rarely needing service.
Whirlpool has always built products that are service friendly(yes even the old belt drives, just compare them to a SQ solid tub and tell me which you'd rather work on), however these new machines aren't build well at all. Even the "commercial" models are rather flimsy, they will *need* far more service than a Speed Queen will and far earlier. Parts cost means little unless one is doing the work themselves or there is an extra ordinary difference in cost between two parts from make to make. If a repair is to be done, the bulk of the cost will be the service call charge itself and or labor. If you have a VMW based machine, whatever ease you have in getting cheap parts will be negated by the need to have them installed more frequently. You seem to get very concerned about the electronics in the TC5, but not so about the electronics in the MVWP575. Speed Queen has used almost the same control system in commercial coin-op machines for 30 years, they interface the motor and fill solenoids with relays, very simple technology, compared to the motor reversing and sensing systems employed in the Maytag, likely controlled by power transistors of some sort. |
Post# 1067862 , Reply# 32   4/17/2020 at 21:36 (1,440 days old) by speedqueen (Metro-Detroit)   |   | |
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Just for the record, I want to post that despite my name here on this forum, I'm no Speed Queen fan boy. My name is in reference to my dream machine which I now own, a 1957 model A19, pictured below.
Now to talk longevity, I will agree that the modern TC Speed Queens will not be family heirloom, however in most service I think they will go a couple decades, but they're no center dial Maytag, that's for sure, and my old '57 makes both the 575 and the TC5 look like cheap Shark vacuums quality wise. But I must say it is the second least engineered device I own second to my 1958 Wheel Horse garden tractor which I believe the design process involved too much angle iron and a welder. It is a nightmare to work on and pull the motor/fluid drive assembly out, and the pot metal pumps aren't the least bit confidence inspiring. Now to talk modern Speed Queen's downsides, they go through more belts than an old Whirlpool or the old solid tubs did(mine had it's original belts until a few months ago), however they are much improved compared to the Raytheon era. Transmissions are passable, far better than anything else on the market, but again they aren't like the solid tub models, the old Whirlpools(BD or DD) or Maytags. I do believe that surprisingly the electronic controlled models have had more reliability than the old timers could manage. To sum up, they aren't the best ever made, but the LAST built anywhere close to how they are. The pinnacle of engineering in this field of design were the Maytags from the 1960s-2006 and the 1982-2010 Whirlpool direct drives. I agree, the modern Maytag is a good machine for those who won't really use it that much, it offers a good value for money, but frankly so does the TC5. When one considers what household goods used to cost back when everything was like my 1957, it's amazing anything remotely comparable can be built for as cheaply as it is. Mine cost $350 in 1957 which is, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics equivalent to $3,273.20 today. |