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Thread Number: 82761
/ Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
New Front Loader Quest |
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Post# 1069220 4/25/2020 at 12:11 (1,460 days old) by bajaespuma  (Connecticut) |
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I need to buy a new daily driver but nothing that I've seen in the stores or on line looks promising. Even the Mieles have been dumbed-down for the American market and look like playhouse toys in the showrooms. I've been looking at a couple of GE front-loaders so the first question I want to ask is who makes them? Second, are they any good? I've looked at Maytag FL's; they look incredibly cheap and tinny. The best looking machines remain the LG's but after my wonderful LG Front Loader left me high and dry after 10 years of service and the LG company didn't stock the circuit board that would have but it back in service, I told LG to go F itself and that I would never buy another LG product again.
Whirlpools come well recommended by the laity but they also look cheap. Any suggestions would be appreciated. A high-end Appliance dealer from a well-known store in Norwalk CT told me that Speed Queen is supposed to be coming out with some new FL models soon but I have yet to see them. | ||
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Post# 1069225 , Reply# 1 4/25/2020 at 12:35 (1,460 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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 Ken, you cannot expect any modern washer to last long, except for SQ. I refuse to have an SQ because it doesn't have an onboard heater. You did really well getting 10 years of service out of the LG. See my comment in the top load vs front load thread about my Duet's cleaning of extreme stain of blood and other stains setting for over a week before it got washed. With results such as it was, I could care less how long the cycle runs. If SQ did offer a washer with an onboard heater in their new line, I would consider it next time, but they damn well won't. | ||
| Post# 1069232 , Reply# 2 4/25/2020 at 13:19 (1,460 days old) by agiflow3 () | ||
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The metal used in the Whirlpool and Maytag is the same as anyone elses. I think the SS tubs actually feel better made than the Samsung or LG washers. It's your money but i can tell you the Whirlpool front loaders are fine washers. | ||
| Post# 1069235 , Reply# 3 4/25/2020 at 13:57 (1,460 days old) by pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada) | ||
bajaespuma
have you considered looking at the new ge front load washer here the link of the website so that way you can compare model before going to your local store?
products.geappliances.com/applia... | ||
| Post# 1069238 , Reply# 4 4/25/2020 at 13:59 (1,460 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida) | ||
One washer you might be very happy with is an Electrolux. I have the 527 and a year in and zero issues with it. It cleans better , in my opinion , than LG , and I also have an LG 3570 washer, so that’s saying something. The Electrolux washer has a Pods slot and works quite well I might add. Cycle times are very reasonable as well.
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| Post# 1069244 , Reply# 6 4/25/2020 at 14:34 (1,460 days old) by agiflow3 () | ||
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nmassman44 do you find the pump loud on the Electrolux ? I have heard others say it could be an annoyance in close quarters. | ||
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Post# 1069248 , Reply# 7 4/25/2020 at 14:58 (1,460 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Agiflow, I would have never used Normal cycle for daily loads, may very small loads, as that the cycle that the energy star rating is based upon. I'd probably select the Towels cycle and adjust soil level accordingly. Heavy Duty "how to" probably turns the heater on automatically, and maybe even Towels or Whites. I predominantly use cycles whereby the heater turns on as default. For mine, that's Bulky Items as well as Whites and Heavy Duty. On Normal, and its comparable "Specialty Cycle", in order for heater to maintain or heat the water, I have to select Steam option. Also, rinse cycles on Normal are only about 2 minutes after it finishes adding water. Other cycles the rinses are more like 4-5 minutes after water is through being added. | ||
| Post# 1069249 , Reply# 8 4/25/2020 at 14:58 (1,460 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida) | ||
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On my Electrolux washer , the pump isn’t that loud at all compared to the Frigidaire built GE that I had. I can hear it when it does cycle to drain and also when the recirculating pump kicks on with a low hum. My machines are in the basement so I am sure if they were in closed quarters the sound might be different.
I do enjoy using both Electrolux washer and the dryer as well. They both keep up with each other time wise and the washer does not do what the LG does when it comes to spin cycles where the LG can be very fussy about balancing, Electrolux washer, not so much. The other thing with Electrolux washer is when I use a Hot water temp and Heavy soil setting, it will engage the onboard water heater and bring the temp up. The Sanitize temp can be selected in the Normal cycle if needed. The Electrolux pair is in my opinion very good performance wise. I can’t say enough about them. | ||
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Post# 1069306 , Reply# 11 4/25/2020 at 21:20 (1,460 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut) |
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I agree. | ||
| Post# 1069312 , Reply# 12 4/25/2020 at 21:51 (1,459 days old) by nmassman44 (Brooksville Florida) | ||
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The thing with Whirlpool built front loaders is that when I was researching and shopping around to check prices, a dealer here and she is a Maytag Home dealer when Maytag was , well, Maytag...she told me that she will not stock their frontloaders since they have had way too many issues with control boards frying out at just 6 months of usage. That might be different now with the new crop of front loaders that they introduced recently. I do agree that Whirlpool built front loaders do have this cheap feel to them. I was looking at them last weekend at Lowes and I thought that it just looked cheap all around from the spiral drum hole pattern to the way the door felt when I opened the door to the drum.
The other thing on my Electrolux washer is the drum light. I never thought having a drum light would come in so handy, but it does. My Miele washer had one that had a yellowish hue to the light. The Electrolux is a cool bright white light. I will have to agree that while SQ washers are built like a tank and the cost can make most people say no to especially when there is no onboard water heating to maintain or raise the wash water temp. Thats ok for people that just want a washer to do its thing and hope for the best. I like having a washer that does have the heater since I dont have to use an oxy based product to just attempt to give me some sanitization. Just my opinion. | ||
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Post# 1069410 , Reply# 15 4/26/2020 at 13:25 (1,459 days old) by littlegreeny (Milwaukee, WI) |
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New SQ FL'ers? | ||
| Post# 1069413 , Reply# 16 4/26/2020 at 14:20 (1,459 days old) by agiflow3 () | ||
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If they added heaters and boil washes it would defeat the whole purpose of the name Speed Queen, no ? | ||
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Post# 1069428 , Reply# 17 4/26/2020 at 15:59 (1,459 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Best New FL Washer Speed Queen, for durability, ease of repair and fast performance
Even though my 15 YO SQFL has a heater I have not used the feature in years, you simply do not need to wash clothing in hotter than 120F water with modern detergents and even a 150F does not disinfect as well as 1/4 cup of bleach added to the dispenser.
Next best machines are WP + MT FL washers even though a SQ will outlast at least two Was probably three.
Keep in mind that all of these are Union Built in the US, given the choice I NEVER buy Non-Union products. LG and SS are almost entirely Chinese with most of them being entirely assembled in China, Look at the tag.
John L. | ||
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Post# 1069433 , Reply# 18 4/26/2020 at 17:31 (1,459 days old) by littlegreeny (Milwaukee, WI) |
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Not necessarily agiflow3 | ||
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Post# 1069508 , Reply# 20 4/27/2020 at 07:05 (1,458 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany)) |
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Having a heater dosen't mean it has to heat water verry much. A heater is - for normal washing - just there to supplement keeping the temp in check. Let's say the water is 110F after sensing, but you ran a hot wash with a 20min main wash after sensing. You could get the water to 120F or even 130F without extending the cycle time even at just 1000W. | ||
| Post# 1069512 , Reply# 21 4/27/2020 at 07:46 (1,458 days old) by Turbowash (USA) | ||
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I’m very concerned about hand wash cycle disappearing from all new models. I use this cycle at least once a week. What I’m going to do once my current washer is going to brake? I saw only one model available with this cycle at the moment :( | ||
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Post# 1069521 , Reply# 22 4/27/2020 at 08:36 (1,458 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany)) |
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Delicates, Wool and Handwash seem interchangable on many US washers. Over here you have delicates, Wool/Handwash and Silks usually as a choice of delicate main cycles. | ||
| Post# 1069553 , Reply# 25 4/27/2020 at 11:58 (1,458 days old) by Turbowash (USA) | ||
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Delicate and handwash cycles on my LG washer are very different. Delicate cycle is too ruff for cashmere and fake fur covers I wash weekly. | ||
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Post# 1069559 , Reply# 26 4/27/2020 at 13:16 (1,458 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Post# 1069575 , Reply# 27 4/27/2020 at 16:52 (1,458 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia) |
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Delicate over here usually means, medium water level, Medium tumble, low speed spins Wool/Handwash is usually medium/high water level, low tumble, with Short Highspeed spins Silk/Handwash is usually high water level, low tumble, short low speed spins So same, but different. Delicate is definitely more aggressive though. | ||
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Post# 1069577 , Reply# 28 4/27/2020 at 17:30 (1,458 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany)) |
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Should have been more clear I mean that brand to brand, it appeared to me that one brands delicate was another brands wool cycle and so forth. If one machine has multiple delicate cycles they surely aren't interchangeable... | ||
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Post# 1069989 , Reply# 30 4/30/2020 at 01:31 (1,455 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Powerful heating isn't necessary (within reason) if a washer can draw hot water, and temps coming out of taps are consistently 120F-140F.
Commercial laundries that use steam for heating wash or rinse water rarely take tap cold and heat; rather hot water is boosted from say 120F to 160F which requires far less energy than going from 84F to 106F. Problem is many domestic washing machines are fundamentally flawed nowadays thanks to electronics and interfering government mandates. A short pre-wash at cold or even warm, then hot fill with boost to 120F, 140F or even 160F is easily done with a 1300 watt or bit less heating element. Thing is most manufacturers are leery of putting heating elements rated higher than 1000 watts or so for fear of machine drawing too much current from a 120v/15 amp circuit. They could get up to 1800 watts of power from a 20amp circut, but that might alienate sales from those who don't have such an outlet where washer is located, nor are interested in doing the upgrade. SQ likely never bothered again with adding a booster heater to their front loaders because they assume American households obsession with chlorine bleach is enough for sanitizing, whitening and stain removal. | ||
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Post# 1070039 , Reply# 31 4/30/2020 at 08:28 (1,455 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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My 20 year old Maytag Neptune 7500 is still going strong. At 110 volts, it can only heat water to about 130F, but generally that's more than enough. I also have multiple Mieles, and I used to use one for white towels and wash cloths, but haven't bothered with it for at least a year.
Unless one's water heater is very close to the washer, there can be a considerable temperature drop between the heater and the washer. Add to that, the need to heat up the washer tub/drum and laundry load. This is accentuated by the minimal water usage of modern front loaders. A water heater 20 feet from the washer, set to 120F will be hard pressed to result in a wash temp over, say 105F, in a heater-less washer. For heavily soiled loads I find the Neptune at a boosted 130F, plus an ounce or so of STPP, plus a good HE detergent, does the job quite well. YMMV | ||
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Post# 1070071 , Reply# 33 4/30/2020 at 10:28 (1,455 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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One nice feature of the Neptune 7500 is that you can monitor the actual water sump temperature at any time. It does take some keystrokes, but it doesn't interfere with the wash program. If I were to get a new front loader, I'd want to continue to be able to do that, so it's a feature I would favor.
One reason why I've stuck with the Neptune is the layout of my laundry closet. The plumbing and venting connections require that the washer be on the right, and the dryer on the left. The Neptune washer door can swing either way, so it works fine in that location. The only other modern front loader I've seen that can allow for washer door reversal is the Electrolux series. But if I'm not mistaken the model that could do that has been discontinued. At least I'm not seeing it at Home Depot any more. | ||
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Post# 1070072 , Reply# 34 4/30/2020 at 10:30 (1,455 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Post# 1070092 , Reply# 35 4/30/2020 at 12:28 (1,455 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany)) |
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Both the 527 and 627 feature a reversible door on both the washer and dryer on the ELux side if O am not mistaken. LG should still have the ability to hold 2 buttons to get a temp readout in C on the display. Same for the rpm. At least mine still has it over here... | ||
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Post# 1070146 , Reply# 36 4/30/2020 at 18:07 (1,455 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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SQ FL Washers | ||
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Post# 1070151 , Reply# 37 4/30/2020 at 18:37 (1,455 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Post# 1070155 , Reply# 38 4/30/2020 at 19:28 (1,455 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Did I tempt fate...
Just a day after stating how reliable my Neptune has been, I was washing a load of jeans and shirts today - warm setting. I had put a load of towels through in the morning, set on hot, extended wash soak, without incident.
But after starting the warm cycle just now, I realized I had forgotten to add the liquid detergent after the washer had filled. No problem dumped an appropriate amount of Tide HE down the hatch, and chased it with about a quart of hot water. Then I started smelling something wrong, like over heated electrics. Plus looking like steam coming out of the fill compartment. Hmm. Let it sit a bit, started it up again, ran the system check and noted the heater off, sump at 96F. OK. Then the temp dropped to 95, and heater signal came on. But the sump temp continued dropping. Down to 94, the 93, despite the heater being commanded on. My conclusion: the heating element just burned out. I don't think it's a too difficult job to replace it, but I guess I'll find out. The burning smell stopped, so it's probably safe to run the machine as is, without a functioning heating element. And so it goes. Maybe I'll be looking at those Elux machines. They are kind of hard to find here. Home Depot (or is it Lowes?) used to have them, but not any more that I could see last time I checked. Sigh. | ||
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Post# 1070157 , Reply# 39 4/30/2020 at 19:43 (1,455 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Post# 1070163 , Reply# 40 4/30/2020 at 20:03 (1,455 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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527 and 627, door
Well, on the Electrolux web site for USA, there's no mention of being able to reverse the door, or change how it swings. Last time I looked at Elux washers (must have been at Lowe's), I didn't see how the door could be reversed...
Also, to get the "steam" function, one needs to spend about $200 more, and there's not indication that it heats the water. Although I'm guessing that if it produces steam some of the water must be getting heated to boiling. Not sure how that works. Update: I see that the TOL 627 has a Sanitize function, so it must be getting the water pretty hot (I'm guessing 150F, maybe higher). It also has a "whitest whites" function which may also heat the water above 120F. Maybe I'll just move one of the Miele machines out of the workshop and put that in the laundry closet. I could move the 7500 to the workshop for when I have large loads that require its increased capacity over the Miele. I have two 1025's and one 1918. I know the 1918 works. Not sure about the 1025's. And I have an old Frigidaire front loader. No heater, of course. | ||
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Post# 1070168 , Reply# 41 4/30/2020 at 20:26 (1,455 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany)) |
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It does say that I just checked. Download the instalation manual for the 627. Or under specifications, exterior specifications (third column top header) and 4th bullet point. | ||
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Post# 1070176 , Reply# 42 4/30/2020 at 20:55 (1,455 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Got it. Thanks.
Also saw this. Kinda light on tech info, but a resounding win for the Elux TOL machine... www.cnet.com/reviews/elec... | ||
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Post# 1070251 , Reply# 43 5/1/2020 at 07:14 (1,454 days old) by Combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Nonheating Maytag Neptune front load washer | ||
| Post# 1070522 , Reply# 45 5/2/2020 at 18:51 (1,453 days old) by trappn (Illinois) | ||
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Heinrich...... Seems like you are something of a subject matter expert on the Electrolux line. AC pumps, and all, would you choose an American 627 over one of the current LG TOL's? Thanks. | ||
| Post# 1070555 , Reply# 47 5/3/2020 at 04:53 (1,452 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY) | ||
Keep in mind
The Elux's don't have coin traps but the LG's do. Not a huge deal IF you check pockets religiously before loading. I'm the only one that does laundry and over the years the ONLY things I can think of that I missed are maybe a couple of dimes and a small screwdriver (all which stayed in the drum) The few times I've checked my coin trap over the years, there's never anything in it but a few little pieces of harmless lint.
If you have multiple people doing laundry and something gets into the pump, I think the entire machine has to be taken apart to get to it. This is the only thing that annoys me about the Elux's. If LG can put a coin trap door right upfront, why don't they? On the new Duets, I believe they now have a coin trap.....but the Maytags don't. Not sure what's up with that weirdness. | ||
| Post# 1070609 , Reply# 48 5/3/2020 at 09:20 (1,452 days old) by agiflow3 () | ||
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That was another reason I bought the 6620 was for the coin trap. Mark I don't get the company either. Why dont they give Maytag a coin trap access ? I have to say I wouldn't hesitate to buy another Whirlpool front loader when i finally get my place sold. | ||
| Post# 1070631 , Reply# 49 5/3/2020 at 12:18 (1,452 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY) | ||
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Well
I haven't completely given up on Whirlpool. I love my Maytag dishwasher. Zero problems. My fridge is 2 over 2 years old now. No problems (but I expect problems eventually). It's just the "NEW" stuff feels so much cheaper. I mean, for example, my 2004 Whirlpool fridge (lasted about 13 years) and I had a few repairs on it in that 13 years...but the new comparable Whirlpool fridge just feels HOLLOW to me in comparison. I mean, maybe that's not a bad thing, I don't know.
I do know that for Dryers, I prefer Whirlpool definitely. I think dishwashers too (Maytag) and maybe Range's/microwaves. But the new Duets I'm just not sure about. I think for my next washer (still undecided) but leaning Elux OR LG.. I've drawn this conclusion from videos I've seen of them in operation on YouTube. The LG's turbowash and Elux looked superior to me as far amount of water/ recirculation. Yes, the duet's had recirculation and I've only seen one cycle (I think it was a pillow someone was washing and it was on the bulky cycle) and thank God for the recirculation because there was BARELY any water.....And this was the BULKY cycle, the cycle that has always used the most water..I was cringing while watching it because I was imagining even less water than that in other cycles. I wish I could see more cycles of the new Duets but I can't find them on YouTube. | ||
| Post# 1070635 , Reply# 51 5/3/2020 at 14:51 (1,452 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY) | ||
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so then it sounds like | ||
| Post# 1070662 , Reply# 54 5/3/2020 at 17:48 (1,452 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania) | ||
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Henrik Are you comparing Elux and LG in the USA or in the EU? | ||
| Post# 1070664 , Reply# 55 5/3/2020 at 17:50 (1,452 days old) by jerrod6 (Southeastern Pennsylvania) | ||
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When the Whirlpools default to 2 rinses can you get an extra one and make that 3 rinses? What about temperatures how high do they heat the water for the extra white load? | ||
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Post# 1070666 , Reply# 56 5/3/2020 at 17:59 (1,452 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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John,
Thanks for the hint. The aroma and steam/smoke was coming from the fill area, which is fairly isolated from the control board. It might just be a wiring issue. I need to pull the washer out from the laundry nook to clean the hot water intake screen anyway, at which time I can pull the rear access panel and see if I can observe any wiring issue. The washer completed a few more cycles sans heating without incident. It would be nice if it's just wiring, because the heating element is unobtainium. If the Neptune craps out completely, I'll probably swap it out with the old Frigidaire, and leave the Miele(s) in the workshop. We'll see. I got choices. Although a new Elux set would be nice. | ||
| Post# 1070673 , Reply# 57 5/3/2020 at 18:47 (1,452 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY) | ||
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Agiflow
Hey - My duet doesn't have prewash either. Back when I bought my Duet, there were 3 models. BOL, MOL, and TOL (they all looked the same except for more cycles/options.) Mine is MOL...I got the cheapest one WITH a heater. I'm almost positive the TOL then had a prewash.
I would much rather have prewash than presoak if all presoak does is extend the wash. I'd rather have a water change. I can't BELIEVE Whirlpool doesn't have that cycle. Luckily, I would rarely need it but when I do, I just use rinse/spin but I add detergent. Then when it's done, I start a cycle with more detergent,etc. Mine has a soak cycle which I rarely use. A few years ago I remember hoping my Duet would die because I wanted to get something different, not that anything was wrong with my machine, I just wanted something cooler and newer...but as each year goes by, now I don't want it to die. Each year I hate the new washers more and more. | ||
| Post# 1070675 , Reply# 58 5/3/2020 at 19:18 (1,452 days old) by agiflow3 () | ||
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Jerrod cycles default to 2 rinses and you can add a third with extra rinse The water level is low. | ||
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Post# 1070689 , Reply# 59 5/3/2020 at 20:47 (1,452 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Post# 1070700 , Reply# 60 5/3/2020 at 21:02 (1,452 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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colors hold onto detergent more than lighter colors | ||
| Post# 1070716 , Reply# 62 5/3/2020 at 22:04 (1,451 days old) by agiflow3 () | ||
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Tomdawg what are the default number of rinses on that model LG ? | ||
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Post# 1070781 , Reply# 64 5/4/2020 at 09:55 (1,451 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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I did a little more research, and the Samsung Model #WF50R8500AW 5 cu ft front load washer also has steam heat and a "reversible swing door".
As does the 5 cu ft GE Model #GFW850SPNDG. Also, the TOL 5.8 cu ft LG Model #WM9500HKA. But at $2k list price, it's a bit more expensive than the rest. Almost twice the price. Is it worth it? | ||
| Post# 1070814 , Reply# 65 5/4/2020 at 14:30 (1,451 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY) | ||
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Well | ||
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Post# 1070815 , Reply# 66 5/4/2020 at 14:40 (1,451 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Got it. Samsung has a negative vote.
BTW, I'm noticing places like Lowe's are heavily discounting these washers right now. I'm thinking it's to try to goose sales during the pandemic. Might be a good time to buy? Unless, of course, the washer turns out to be a lemon. The lack of a coin trap on the Elux doesn't bother me. The Neptune doesn't have one either and it hasn't been a problem. If I'm not mistaken, Maytag said the Neptune has a self-cleaning lint filter. | ||
| Post# 1070816 , Reply# 67 5/4/2020 at 15:05 (1,451 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan) | ||
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We have a "SAMSUNG" 4.5 cu. ft. front loader w/steam. I like it! Going on a yaer old now. Puts the old Whirltag Bravos to shame. So it aint union made. Where do all the parts come from in ones that are? Not union labor, nor the USA. Don't tell me the money's American. Just some is. We live in a global ecomomic society now. | ||
| Post# 1070827 , Reply# 68 5/4/2020 at 16:16 (1,451 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY) | ||
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Samsung | ||
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Post# 1070828 , Reply# 69 5/4/2020 at 16:25 (1,451 days old) by petek (Ontari ari ari O ) |
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LG Quick Wash cycle
I jsut tried the Quick Wash cycle on my new LG 3700 and happy. 15 minutes and done. It states to keep the load about 3 lbs. so I tossed in 5 t-shirts , a pair of socks, and 3 pairs of underwear. Also states to use very little detergent.I may have put in too much because I wasn't sure what very little means. It takes about 2 minutes for the machine to get into the swing of things and it seemed like very little water in there, you can see the bottom with that few clothes. At about the 7 minute remaining point it tossed in a fair amount more water and really got things splashing about but that barely last maybe a minute or less and then it started draining. Then it seems to sit an unusually long amount of time before the tub starts turning.. I always wonder why they do that, why can't they just make them click over and start moving right away without all these waits in between. oh well. I'm glad the cycle is there, the clothes I through in weren't particularly dirty, just ones I had worn. Next time I try it I'll put something in with a stain on it to see, but I wouldn't expect miracles It's just nice to have that quick option,, sort of the like the quick mini-cycle on the old GE.
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Post# 1070832 , Reply# 71 5/4/2020 at 16:47 (1,451 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Best Most Servicable FL Washer
SQ FLers have by far and away the most accessible button traps and pump assemblies, just 2 5/16" screws and you can get to the pump and the clean out.
Even the machines with the clean-out door in the front are a PITA to clear clogs, you can't get to every clog through the clean-out-cap and you need to pinch off the water in the tub or you have a flood when trying to fix them, and if you have to replace the pump you still have to remove the top of the washer and the whole front, I will take SQs simple to fix design any day. | ||
| Post# 1070843 , Reply# 72 5/4/2020 at 17:59 (1,451 days old) by Tomdawg (Des moines) | ||
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Agiflow3 The normal cycle has one rinse I believe with a spray default rinse. Using heavy duty it defaults to 2 rinses. | ||
| Post# 1070854 , Reply# 73 5/4/2020 at 18:43 (1,451 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY) | ||
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I'd buy a SQ fl
in a second if it had a heater. I agree they are the best built. The heater is so automatic with my Duet. Usually I use heavy duty/more soil/extra rinse, for colors or whitest whites for whites.....the heater just automatically starts in those cycles and you can definitely tell the heater is heating the water because the door gets hot like a dishwasher. After having a heater and not having to worry if the water is hot enough is a bummer. I think at one time SQ fl washers had a heater.
I have to say though, I too have had pretty much good luck with Whirlpool all my life. Yes, there have been a couple of things wrong but mostly nothing major. | ||
| Post# 1070856 , Reply# 74 5/4/2020 at 18:58 (1,451 days old) by agiflow3 () | ||
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Tomdawg thank you sir. | ||
| Post# 1070857 , Reply# 75 5/4/2020 at 19:04 (1,451 days old) by agiflow3 () | ||
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Since the speed queens use more H2O does the water feel hot when washing whites if say your water heater is set to around 120F ? | ||
| Post# 1070858 , Reply# 76 5/4/2020 at 19:07 (1,451 days old) by agiflow3 () | ||
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That was one thing I found when I first cleaned the trap in the Whirlpool. The small flood I had. Thankfully my machines are on concrete. | ||
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Post# 1070873 , Reply# 77 5/4/2020 at 20:07 (1,451 days old) by littlegreeny (Milwaukee, WI) |
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Current Generation WP/Maytag FL'ers
I share the love for the previous generation machines. They were solid, well-built machines that performed well.
But what about the current generation of new machines? Things I noticed that really bother me are the anemic recirculation pump, the sheer amount of flimsy plastic, including the plastic inner door (why?), and the suspension seems less robust...Speaking of which, was the balance ring always inside the wash drum? That just seems like a great place for mold, mildew and other funk to accumulate underneath. I tried using their TOL FL with the touch screen (WFW9620) on a showroom floor and found it so frustrating and nearly impossible to use I don't think anyone at WP actually used it before it was released to the market. | ||
| Post# 1070877 , Reply# 78 5/4/2020 at 20:26 (1,451 days old) by agiflow3 () | ||
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Does anyone here have any pull with people at Whirlpool? Why are they cheapening so much of their products now? They once had very good quality all across the board. Now they are hit and miss. | ||
| Post# 1070926 , Reply# 79 5/5/2020 at 06:51 (1,450 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY) | ||
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I feel like each year that goes by, they make them a little cheaper. If they changed the glass to plastic, who knows what other parts of the machine are now cheaper than previous generations. Some features and options might get better with new machines.
It's funny that my 2005 Duet is considered well built now, but back in 2005 it was considered cheaply made. I can remember being on forums, people talking about the cheap door handles they would often see broken when looking at display models. How we could be lucky to get 5 years out of them. | ||
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Post# 1071009 , Reply# 80 5/5/2020 at 18:12 (1,450 days old) by jamiel (Detroit, Michigan and Palm Springs, CA) |
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Post# 1071039 , Reply# 81 5/5/2020 at 21:45 (1,449 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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The young couple in the apartment behind me replaced a small tub, low end Maytag Dependable Care washer and a BOL Kenmore dryer—both were in rough shape—with this Whirlpool front-load pair about 3 months ago. Model 6620, I believe. Theirs aren’t on pedestals. The pair is touted as being ‘Closet Depth’, and fit well in our tight laundry space. The doors don’t hit the machines opposite them when fully open, but they come damn close.
Washer: I like the control layout; it has a nice array of cycles/options and real, not “with Oxi” sanitizing. The plastic glass in the door looks cheap and the suspension squeaks if the load isn’t well balanced during pre-spin balancing. Squeaking tends to go away once the spin is ramped up to speed. They are thrilled with it—their first front-loader. He works at a local farm equipment manufacturer and she at a nursing home, so they change clothes frequently, especially during this pandemic. They’re washing everything except dark colors on Sanitize and using Tide Ultra Stain Release. Frankly, I’m washing everything but blacks in 150-degree water these days, as well. My clothes have been washed many times, so there’s no threat of colors running. But, I digress. He actually does most of their laundry and is impressed with stain removal and how much water is extracted compared to the Maytag. He also likes the auto-dosing bulk detergent dispensing. We’ll see how it does in the reliability department. I certainly don’t miss the top-loading lint filter on their old dryer, which always left lint dust on both our dryers (they’re right next to each other).
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| Post# 1071044 , Reply# 82 5/5/2020 at 22:40 (1,449 days old) by agiflow3 () | ||
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Yes Frigilux they are very good machines overall. Other than the plastic door and it's sometimes forever to balance for spin routines it is a solid machine. That's my experience with the 6620. For my first front load washer i wouldn't hesitate to do it again. | ||
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Post# 1071393 , Reply# 83 5/8/2020 at 15:04 (1,447 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Well I did a little more work on the Neptune heating problem. Since the heater no longer seems to be working, I decided to fix a long term problem: hot water inlet clogged with rust (part of the hot water plumbing is through old steel pipe).
Got that fixed, and while the washer was out of its cubby, removed rear access panel to see if I could see the heater or thermistor. No sign of them from the rear, so I'm thinking maybe they are in the front (it's been so long since I had the front panel off I can't remember). Also checked the on-board diagnostics: error code 7, which is "Heater not heating".. "Check heater and sump thermistor for continuity. Was heater on with no water fill?" So once I locate the heater and thermistor location(s), I'll do that check. Might be pointless if the thermistor is also unobtainium, but we'll see. Outside possibility that a wire broke; I tend to doubt that. Didn't see any broken wires from the back. Another thing: a few months ago I remember once starting a hot cycle but forgot to open the hot water valve on the wall. I suppose it's possible that the system tried to run the heater with no water in the sump (it should be smarter than that!) and that burn something out. I dunno. I don't recall a heating problem after that, though, although I also didn't check the diagnostic codes until now. Meanwhile my water heater can get the initial hot water temp in the sump to about 120F, but that soon drops down over time. So I'd like to get that heater working again. Stay tuned! PS-Cleaning the hot water inlet screen fixed a very slow fill problem. One of these days I'll be replacing all the steel hot water lines with copper. When I win the lottery. LOL. | ||
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Post# 1071400 , Reply# 84 5/8/2020 at 16:05 (1,447 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Well at this point after considerable internet search, it looks like both the heater element and the thermistor are unavailable. So getting the heating to work again may lie with finding a broken wire, or perhaps a blown fuse. I'll have to work up to removing the front of the machine to see what's up in that regard.
Meanwhile it's working ok w/o the heater. But I do miss the higher temps. | ||
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Post# 1071410 , Reply# 85 5/8/2020 at 17:40 (1,447 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Maytag Neptune Heating Element
Do youse mean this?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Maytag-Neptune-... Or this? https://www.ebay.com/itm/Maytag-Neptune-... | ||
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Post# 1071431 , Reply# 86 5/8/2020 at 19:34 (1,447 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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MAH8700 is a fake Neptune, sourced from Samsung. DC47yadayada is a Samsung part number reference. However, many frontloader take physically similar heater assemblies so perhaps something could substitute if the resistance/amperage/wattage is equivalent, and the existing thermistor is good and will fit into the bracket (or there's a sub for it). | ||
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Post# 1071471 , Reply# 87 5/8/2020 at 21:42 (1,446 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Yeah, mine is a MAH7500, the heating elements you found are for an MAH8700. I have no idea that they might fit the 7500, but I tend to doubt it. Looks like I'm gonna have to pull the front off the Neptune and do some more poking around.
The good news is that after I took a long hot shower in the late afternoon/early evening, I ran a load of bath towels, and low and behold the water heater is putting out 140F and the washer sump temp got up to 131F. But I'm sure that dropped down considerably through the wash cycle. Still, as long as I take a long shower before running the washer, I might be able to squeak by with the heater problem as is. Because it will only heat up to 130F anyway. LOL. On another note, Lowe's website lied a little. It claimed the Samsung has a "reverse swing door". Nope. I went to the Samsung website and rang their help bot, and finally got a human response, and they said none of their washers have reversible doors, only their dryers. That leaves Electrolux and GE. I'd be leery of going with GE. But both mfg websites say their washer door swing can be switched. Whether this needs and extra kit or whatever I don't know. But I'm OK for now. I have some white T-shirts and towels that aren't getting destained in the Neptune, so I may fire up the Miele in the workshop (have to reconnect the hose from an outdoor faucet first - had disconnected it to be able to move some heavy equipment in there). If the Miele 1918 (170F) doesn't get the stains out, I don't know what would. Well, maybe an older Miele 1065 that cranks up to 200F might do it. Got one of those, too... | ||
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Post# 1071479 , Reply# 88 5/8/2020 at 23:01 (1,446 days old) by wiskybill (Canton, Ohio) |
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heating element it's in the front CLICK HERE TO GO TO wiskybill's LINK on eBay | ||
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Post# 1071590 , Reply# 89 5/9/2020 at 14:32 (1,446 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Thanks Bill!!!
That's the same part number for the Maytag (22003252). I just ordered it! Should be here in about a week! Yay! (I had forgotten that some Neptune 7500's were rebadged as Amanas) This post was last edited 05/09/2020 at 14:53 | ||
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Post# 1071605 , Reply# 90 5/9/2020 at 15:24 (1,446 days old) by bajaespuma (Connecticut) |
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Coming to a decision, unhappily
I think I'm deciding between the GE and the Whirlpool but I'd so much prefer a SQ with a water heater (and I want the heater not only for Sanitation but also because I like having the option of a boil-wash thank you all very much), or an 220 v European Style Miele like the ones you can buy in Germany and Israel. Why oh why does the US buy drek? What was the deal with those short-lived Large Capacity Mieles that ran on 120v? Was there a problem with them because it seems like they came and then went quickly. I mean these:
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Post# 1071607 , Reply# 91 5/9/2020 at 15:32 (1,446 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany)) |
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They were verry expensive to make, verry expensive in retail, quality wise not up to standards. | ||
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Post# 1071609 , Reply# 92 5/9/2020 at 15:45 (1,446 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Big Miele...
I wondered why the big 120v Miele came and went so fast. It probably didn't support reversing the door swing which is why I lost interest in it anyway. To hear that the quality was lacking sort of softens the blow. We'll see if the new heating element fixes what ails my Neptune. If not, I'd be down to choosing between the 627 Electrolux and a GE. Although I have figured a way to get the Neptune to do a hot wash without needing the heater to kick in (take a long hot shower just before running the hot load in the washer). | ||
| Post# 1071643 , Reply# 93 5/9/2020 at 17:07 (1,446 days old) by toploader55 (Massachusetts Sand Bar, Cape Cod) | ||
I have the 4842 Miele.
I will now give it the kiss of death... 8 years later and it's fine. Alex (logixx) sent me the Tech Manual and after tweaking it to Water Plus, It's fine. The Original machine was a lemon after threatening a lawsuit and a call from mu attorney... they replaced it. I wash maybe 4 loads a week in it. It has water heating and I use mostly the Whitest White cycle. I used the Sanitize setting few times. Water heating is nice to have, but I use Persil Professional Powder and Rosalie's. I think I have used LCB a few times but with good detergent and water heating, LCB is a rare additive.
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Post# 1071657 , Reply# 94 5/9/2020 at 18:09 (1,446 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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good detergent and water heating, LCB is a rare additive. | ||
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Post# 1071661 , Reply# 95 5/9/2020 at 18:32 (1,446 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany)) |
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Pretty certain though that on many cycles these will engage the heater independently of temperature... | ||
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Post# 1071675 , Reply# 96 5/9/2020 at 19:10 (1,446 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Miele 4XXX series was pretty much a disaster
First incarnation (4840) had all sorts of random issues. Detergent drawers popping open and refusing to remain shut. Internal leaking that would trigger WPS sensors shutting machine down. Even when fault was cleared machines often would not restart. Miele sales persons and techs were advising owners to "tip machine forward" to drain water. Yes, some 5'5 110 (or less) pound American housewife is going to manage that feat all be herself...
Overall the quality just wasn't there for 4840, especially when compared to the W3xxx series that came out at same time. Side by side comparison had many customers simply feeling the later was more substantial washer. And they were correct in many ways. For one the 4840 could only be loaded 3/4 full, while the 3XXX washers like Miele of old could have their drums loaded fully. Miele came back with the 4845 which supposedly addressed many of the failings from previous models, but it was almost too little and too late. Miele was competing with Whirlpool, Electrolux, LG and others in bringing uber sized front loaders to American market. Whirlpool did so with their Duet washers which cost considerably less than Miele's 4840 or 4845 Miele's other larger worry was that they made those uber washers just for mainly north American market. Sales were tried in Europe and proved disappointing as few households wanted such a large washing machine. So for all the R&D and other efforts Miele put into their uber sized washer and dryer they needed substantial sales in North America to make go of things. That wasn't happening and they were losing money on units sold. Coupled with word getting out about poor reliability and service issues (like waiting several weeks for Miele to fix the things), they just weren't moving those huge washers. As for the uber sized matching dryers, less said the better. Miele had nothing but problems and complaints (though not nearly as so bad as the washers), so in the end both of them had to go. Only way for Miele to have made money on those units was to do something they just refuse; built a North American plant and stop importing entire built appliances. In the end Miele split the difference; going back to the drawing board we now have the new W1 and Little Giant washers. Americans can chose one or the other depending upon their laundry needs. Thing is Miele like Electrolux and a few others know very well how to build rock solid 18lb-20lb commercial type washing machines. They have them on offer all over Europe. Just like WP bought Bauknecht to get their mitts on some H-axis goodies. | ||
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Post# 1071683 , Reply# 97 5/9/2020 at 19:52 (1,446 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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It took me a while to chase down the VOLUME specs on the W1 Miele washer: 2.3 cu ft. As opposed to the Little Giant at about 2.0 cu ft. Mostly Miele wants to talk about capacity in weight, which I suppose is more accurate but each parameter has its own pros and cons. For example, I would expect a knit synthetic sweater load will weigh less than a woven cotton load of same volume, since the knit fabric might not compress as much as the woven cotton. I guess.
I'm sure both are fine machines... but due to my laundry closet setup and the need to wash larger items I think I'm still gravitating either to the Elux or GE front loaders with their reversible washer drawers. Or, just stick with the damn Neptune. LOL. | ||
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Post# 1071735 , Reply# 98 5/10/2020 at 04:56 (1,445 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Miele claimed 4.0 cubic foot capacity with Miele 4802 and 4842 (not 4845 one wrote in error with above post, sorry), but again it was deceiving. Since you couldn't load washer totally full what seems at first glance huge, really wasn't.
www.houzz.com/discussions... blog.yaleappliance.com/bid/83143... us.mieleusa.com/MieleMedia/docs/... | ||
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Post# 1071738 , Reply# 99 5/10/2020 at 05:53 (1,445 days old) by kimball455 (Cape May, NJ) |
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New GE washer and dryer
Finally, after 19 months I am able to return to my home. The fire was devistating and I think I posted pictures earlier. At any rate everything is completed and I am moving back to my home. Of course, everything had to be replace. Essentially I have a completely new house even the basic structure, which dates to 1860 is intact. The house was gutted and everyting replaced. So, here is a picture of the GE washer and dryer. GW850SSNWW washer and GFD85GSSNWW gas dryer. I have use them multiple times on multiple cycles. Really happy with the results from both machines.
But, wait, there's more. I am including a picture of the new kitchen. Harry | ||
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Post# 1071803 , Reply# 101 5/10/2020 at 14:59 (1,445 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Well, there's always Milnor... Only $699!
CLICK HERE TO GO TO SudsMaster's LINK on eBay
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Post# 1071834 , Reply# 102 5/10/2020 at 17:42 (1,445 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Post# 1071885 , Reply# 103 5/10/2020 at 21:29 (1,445 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Lest I be exposed, I would be remiss not to add that the Neptune 7500 has not been trouble free in the past some 20 years. I had got a 3 year extended warranty, which was a good thing, since after about two years it started sounding like the tub was coming apart. Turned out the spider (the big wheel at the back that turns the inner drum) had cracked. The repair guy said I was lucky to have caught it before it disintegrated and caused major damage. A new spider plus some control upgrades were all free. After that it's been trouble free for about 17 years. The only issue I recall is that the drum light switch on the washer is a bit sticky - sometimes it doesn't turn the light on when the door is opened. A quick flick turns it on. I may take it apart when I fix the heating issue, since the front will be off at that time.
Been looking at the eLux line again. I think I'd spring for TOL there... the 627's... have to check the dryer venting setup... right now I have the Neptune venting straight down through the floor, under the machine, which works nicely. Don't know if the eLux dryer can do that. I suppose the installation manual will tell me. | ||
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Post# 1072407 , Reply# 104 5/13/2020 at 23:35 (1,441 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Well, the replacement heating element for the Neptune 7500 arrived today, a little earlier than expected. I plan on installing it tomorrow. We'll see if that fixes it. It wound up costing me about $40. Considerably less than a new machine, if it works. One potential fly in ointment - the mfg bag was previously opened and stapled shut. But the part does not look like it's seen any usage.
Other than that, I tried running some whites through again just using tap hot water and the extended cycle, plus some Clorox "Dry" non-chlorine bleach powder (sodium perborate, mostly, it seems the active ingredient). It got out most of the stains the previous unheated wash with STPP and Tide Liquid HE left behind. Better living through chemistry. | ||
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Post# 1072526 , Reply# 105 5/14/2020 at 16:54 (1,441 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Success!!!
Many thanks again to Wiskybill (Bill) for finding and posting the link to a replacement heating element for the Neptune 7500. That's the kind of community spirit that makes web sites like this so great.
Just got through installing the new heating element. Installing it was the easy part. Getting the old element out was the hard part. I read in a service publication that the rubber on the old element could "take a set" over time. That's an understatement. I probably spent 10 minutes taking apart the front of the washer. That was easy, done it a lot before. Immediately apparent was the source of the heat failure: a burnt out wire to one of the heater terminals. Why it burnt out, I don't know. But the wire was completely severed. Luckily it didn't contact any sheet metal in the process (that I could see), which could have wrought more damage. But the old element was really stuck fast inside the oval opening in the outer tub. Wouldn't budge. Finally two channel lock pliers, and some judicious slicing of the rubber where I could safely get at it, finally freed the element from the outer tub. I crimped on a new female spade connector onto the severed (and cleaned up) wire, covered it with heat shrink insulation, put it all back together. Made sure both power lines to the element had good solid connedtions (female spade connectors can lose their grip over time) Ran a long (34 minute) hot wash with no laundry... temp started out at 93F and after about 25 minutes made it all the way up to 116F. I purposely did not purge the hot water line because I wanted to make sure the heater would perform. Highest temp reached before the washer switched to bleach dispenser flush mode was 126F. Not bad, although purging the hot water line would certainly have got it to 130F. As for the old element... I'll probably test continuity etc but I suspect it's some sort of toast. Will also test the thermistor that came with it. Providing I didn't mess anything up in the old element extraction, looks like the Neptune may have another 20 years to go. (yay) | ||
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Post# 1072534 , Reply# 106 5/14/2020 at 18:10 (1,441 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Post# 1072546 , Reply# 107 5/14/2020 at 19:28 (1,441 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Thanks, Bob!
Post-mortem: According to the service manual, the resistance of the heating element and the thermistor both should be 14 ohms. Once I saw the burnt-out wire connection to one of the heater terminals I decided to replace rather than measure. As it turns out, I just checked the resistance of the old heating element: 14 ohms. However the thermistor resistance if infinity, meaning it's burnt out. It's possible I could have just replaced the thermistor (taking the one out of the new element) and see if that worked. However, I decided the condition of the terminals on the old element were such that I didn't quite trust it. And I didn't realize how easy the thermistor is to replace. Anyway, it's all working again. There's an outside chance the old element is still good (despite my having squeezed the terminals pretty hard to try to remove the element from the tub), so I'll hang onto it. Might also want to see if I can find another thermistor (so far no luck). Still unknown is why the wire to the element burnt out. I can't see any evidence of its shorting to any other component. Nor did I see any evidence in the cabinet of water leakage onto the element terminal. But it certainly cooked. | ||
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Post# 1072576 , Reply# 108 5/14/2020 at 23:14 (1,440 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Burned Wire On A Water heating Element Hi Rich, I suggested you only had a burned wire when you said it stopped working several weeks ago, all you needed to do was replace the terminal, We see this type of failure all the time.
When ever you have a high current connection this type of failure can happen over time, it is a constant problem in older electric dryers and electric ranges.
It is usually best to splice in a heaver ga piece of wire with a new high quality terminal to repair this type of connection, and don't wrap and cover it with tape etc as it will allow it to heat up and fail more easily.
I have never seen a failed heater element in a US FL washer, they are very long lived because of low wattage and having a SS outer sheath.
Hope you get a lot more use out of this rare Maytag washer.
John L. | ||
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Post# 1072593 , Reply# 109 5/15/2020 at 01:01 (1,440 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Yes, John I remember you said that.
However my testing indicates the thermistor is also bad. The new element came with a good thermistor so it wasn't a waste. I have located some replacement thermistors but some of them cost as much as the element did. Go figure. I might purchase one of the cheaper ones just in case. It might be best to solder the wires directly to the element terminals. The spade connectors may not be adequate over time. I think they loosen up with heat and time. We'll see. It's not difficult to pull the front door and panel, so I'll probably check on the terminals in a few months. | ||
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Post# 1072665 , Reply# 110 5/15/2020 at 12:20 (1,440 days old) by lakewebsterkid (Dayton, Ohio) |
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SudsMaster Very glad your Neptune is functional again! I would hate to see that machine being removed from service. One of my all time favorites. | ||
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Post# 1072739 , Reply# 111 5/15/2020 at 23:23 (1,439 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Wow, thanks. I didn't know the Neptune has so many fans.
It has served me well for about 20 years now. Other front loaders have more capacity, and can boost to higher temps, and have doors that allow one to view the washing progress, but I haven't seen any that equal the LCD screen information available on the 7500. | ||
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Post# 1076660 , Reply# 112 6/10/2020 at 22:20 (1,413 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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Update to Reply #81: My neighbors’ 4-month old Whirlpool 6620 developed a leak a couple of weeks ago which has become progressively worse—to the point that a pool of water reaches several feet beyond the washer. The local Whirlpool dealer (who repairs what he sells) paid a visit Friday of Memorial Day weekend. Since then, the young couple who own the machine have surrounded the washer with rolled up bath towels whenever they have to use it.
Bumped into the young woman in the grocery store parking lot this morning and asked what was causing the problem. I couldn’t quite make out what she said, but I think it was “the back seal is bad.” It’s definitely not leaking from the door. At any rate, she said the part is on backorder, so they’re trying to make do in the meantime without flooding the laundry area. The repairman also told her the offending seal has been a problem in several of the new line of Whirlpools he has sold. Strike one! | ||
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