Thread Number: 82929
/ Tag: Vintage Automatic Washers
Whirlpool spanner nut wrench alternatives
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|Post# 1071576   5/9/2020 at 13:41 (1,048 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)  || |
I am trying disassembling the belt drive baby.
I figured out how to change the seal even though I am still unsure about the right seal part number (if you know please help).
Agi came off without any issues.
I tried to look to get the wrench online but plus shipping and the cheapest is going to cost me more than 30bucks and i feel bad spending that much for a tool i will end using a couple of times only.
Already the nuts and nut seals kit is going to cost me the same.
I want to change the spanner nut and drive block too as I see the slots got enlarged during the time.
I tried with a chisel and a hammer, flat screwdriver and wood piece. .but it's frozen.
Wd 40 and hair dryer won't help either.
Guess spending that money for the wrench is my only option unless some of yoy have in mind something to try.
|Post# 1071580 , Reply# 1   5/9/2020 at 13:57 (1,048 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)  || |
|Post# 1071678 , Reply# 2   5/9/2020 at 19:17 (1,048 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)  || |
|Post# 1071686 , Reply# 3   5/9/2020 at 19:57 (1,048 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)  || |
if your going to install a new spanner nut.....just cut the old one off
you could chisel through the gap opening area of the drive block....insert screwdriver and pry apart.....or use a zip tool type cutter if you have one...
installing the new one using a piece of 2x4, and a hammer....you dont have to go over tight, just a few whacks will hold that puppy down secure...
|Post# 1071752 , Reply# 4   5/10/2020 at 08:52 (1,048 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)  || |
Thank you very much Launderess.
I recall reading of other seals in your posts such as the spin tub seal.
Do you remember how many seals there were inside?
I remember reading you bought a bunch of seals but the tech ended up using only the tub one as the others were fine.
Could not find any clear tub parts diagram online which would both been helpful even to determine the darn parts numbers, tried looking around for pictures of folks both here on AWO and on google
trying to understand what exactly I was going to meet...
I knew what was into belt drive wp-km in broad terms but never actually looked carefully.
Same goes for what comcerns other parts such as transmission etc.
Anyways i managed to find a video of an older belt drive kenmore redurbishment and it does not seem a difficult job at all except for the stuck components that with my typical luck of course I am going to meet haha.
Unlucky at cards lucky in love they say...yeah..too bad I keep meeting folks more troubled than my washers 😂😂😂
Anyways...in that video i could not actually sse other seals except the nuts ones i am going to replace and for which i managed to find the part number for the 4nuts plus seals kit, which i thought were the ones leaking in my machine.
Anyways whatever there is dowm there i am going to find out while disassembling.
The outer tub has to be removed as for the tech you hired i also hoped there could be a way to do that without taking it off, not much to save time but because i am afraid to break stuff such as the air trap plastic thing or not being able to have the pump realigned and sealing again as supposed, but I see red paste comes handy.
OTOH by removing the outer tub I can clean it carefully and carefully clean the base underneath.
Eventually treating rust.
Looking through holes in the inner tub i do not see gunk rust or signs of a rotten outer tub but a white patina, which means that it was used right with frequent hot washes.
I used it 5-6 times only and it was then put in storage for 4 years until now.
As said I am still unsure what is actually wrong with it... ran 5 cycles
with the zeolite laden detergent.
The leak decreased to just a few drops during the rinse cycle.
During the hot wash cycle it does not leak also left it soaking for a couple hhours and as long as there is hot soapy water in it does not leak.
But i want it to be reliable and replace all especially because soon i will move away and as I will pass my machines to family i want them to be 100% ok.
Thank you, yes i will replace it, it is dark oxidized as drive block too, I am afraid to ruin the basket lip underneath though.
I have a zip cutter also...I will try again and if it wont budge i will try the zip cutter way trying to be extra careful.
The last thing I want is to ruin the spin basket or drive shaft.
I'm whining already for the cost of the wrench having shipped a basket would mean ruining me!
|Post# 1071783 , Reply# 5   5/10/2020 at 13:59 (1,047 days old) by bradfordwhite (West Coast, U.S.)  || |
|Post# 1071824 , Reply# 6   5/10/2020 at 17:13 (1,047 days old) by rollermatic (cincinnati)  || |
|Post# 1071826 , Reply# 7   5/10/2020 at 17:27 (1,047 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)  || |
Keith...I am pounding counter clockwise all the videos I can see both for DD machines and belt drive have people loosening the nut pounding counterclockwise so assumed that was it.
So do you say that my nut may get unscrewed pounding clockwise?
Peter: Yup I have seen them but all I can find offering shipping to Italy are more expensive and have a shipping cost of $20.
The same is for the 4 nuts and all the rest I need.
If I could find everything sold from one seller that'd be great as I will combine shipping but I got to buy everything from different sellers and each order will cost some dear money for shipping and eBay is my only source because parts shops online won't offer international shipping in fact I was thinking about having them shipped to someone in the US and once they got everything ship to me in Italy all at once.
I also need feet. The plastic white big screw kind.
When I got it was on casters and they probably lost the feet.
The problem is that on ebay they all offer tracked costly priority shipping via courier not mail.
Even the 4 stupid nuts kit that would easily fit in a whatever envelope and could get shipped via first class mail are indeed costly for shipping.
I also think that the coronavirus emergency has something to do with it because I can find very few stuff available.
|Post# 1071831 , Reply# 8   5/10/2020 at 17:40 (1,047 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)  || |
|Post# 1071838 , Reply# 9   5/10/2020 at 17:50 (1,047 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)  || |
I have even asked the whirlpool gas dryers and top load dealer here in Italy as I know them (I even was offered a job time ago to become repair and insert person and seller for my area) if they had the spanner nut tool.
They told me that they do not, the technician said he typically used two screwdrivers...
(I will enclose pic of what he meant)
And also used a piece of wood with screws sometimes.
Which may work for young machines that did not see much oxidation as mine and anyways leaves me kinda puzzled because with the screwdrivers method you have the shaft in the way and you just can't do that.
So...not sure if that was a lie or what.
Same for the wood piece...you got to have an hole for the shaft and as hard as mine is I would break the wood first haha.
So it smell like BS.
Oh they do not have the parts either 🙄😑
|Post# 1071860 , Reply# 10   5/10/2020 at 19:40 (1,047 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)  || |
eBay search for "Whirlpool spanner wrench" finds bunches of them.
The attachment is included with some versions but isn't used for the WP-style nut.
IIRC reading somewhere, it's supposed to be oriented for WP/KM with the side shown in the 2nd pic engaged to the nut ... but I've always done it with the four nubs to the nut.
|Post# 1071865 , Reply# 11   5/10/2020 at 20:04 (1,047 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)  || |
Glenn, offered for overseas shipping there are 5 or 6 and the cheapest is $35 in total.
As said a bit too much for my pockets considering that I will use it this time and probably the next time on my direct drive whirlpool and that's it
I see that even places like Lowe's have the thing for $13 which I wouldn't mind to spend if I were in the United States but the problem is the shipping.
And that I'm going to spend some $$ already for seals nuts and various things....
|Post# 1071867 , Reply# 12   5/10/2020 at 20:13 (1,047 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)  || |
|Post# 1071870 , Reply# 13   5/10/2020 at 20:30 (1,047 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)  || |
|Post# 1071872 , Reply# 14   5/10/2020 at 20:42 (1,047 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)  || |
Oh okay, so I was doing right.
Well I would have felt teased knowing I was doing it in the wrong direction after all that effort and after this morning trying yet another time I cut my finger as my hand slipped over the now sharp nut side.
Today I heated it smoking hot with a heat gun and sprayed wd40 before leaving.
Tomorrow I will try a few more bangs or I will go grab the zip cutter and go buy a new thin disc and cut it hoping not to damage anything.
|Post# 1071873 , Reply# 15   5/10/2020 at 20:42 (1,047 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)  || |
|Post# 1071874 , Reply# 16   5/10/2020 at 20:51 (1,047 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)  || |
Yes but paying $35 for a stupid wrench that I will use only on one machine is a waste of money to me...
I have 30+ washers and luckily none of them required special tools.
Anyways my machine is not a compact washer it's a full-size whirlpool belt drive from 1983 it spin clockwise unlike portables.
This post was last edited 05/10/2020 at 21:07
|Post# 1071875 , Reply# 17   5/10/2020 at 20:53 (1,047 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)  || |
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|Post# 1071902 , Reply# 18   5/10/2020 at 23:44 (1,047 days old) by bradfordwhite (West Coast, U.S.)  || |
It depends on what WP made washer you are working on.
Some of the compact washers for example have counter-intuitive tightening schemes for the basket retainer ring.
Just make sure you know for sure what direction your particular model is supposed to be turned for the action desired.
Don't just assume it's R-T, L-L
That way you don't take a chance stripping threads and damaging the machine. Not to mention making the retainer tighter and taking the chance assuming it's seized.
|Post# 1071936 , Reply# 19   5/11/2020 at 10:08 (1,047 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)  || |
|Post# 1071937 , Reply# 20   5/11/2020 at 10:11 (1,047 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)  || |
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|Post# 1071946 , Reply# 21   5/11/2020 at 10:58 (1,047 days old) by Mickeyd (Hamburg NY)  || |
And what with international flights down, who knows how long it would take the spanner to get there? You'll figure it out. Just keep at it. I used a clothespin to fix a door latch on a Whirlpool Portable Dishwasher the other day, after trying a dozen different tools, etc. and two dozen or more attempts. Good Luck, Buddy.
|Post# 1071947 , Reply# 22   5/11/2020 at 10:59 (1,047 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK)  || |
|Post# 1071953 , Reply# 23   5/11/2020 at 11:17 (1,047 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)  || |
Managed to remove the darn thing.
I could have kept pounding forever the thing was glued to the drive block by years of oxidation and limescale.
But I have another problem by pounding to get the nut out I have distorted slightly the basket post, especially in the small point that by mistake was cut, t was less than a 0.03 inch (1mm) cut but force applied while removing the f*****g nut enlarged It consequently ruining the perfect round shape, can I eventually bang It back? Or what?
Do you think it will cause me any problems?
Anyways to clarify It was indeed meant to be unscrewed pounding counter clockwise.
But again could have kept banging forever It was glued.
|Post# 1071963 , Reply# 24   5/11/2020 at 12:21 (1,047 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)  || |
Gave a bit of cleaning to the tub removing the big part, it was not too much gunky.
I started unscrewing the bolts that don't seem in bad shape, good news because I will probably re use them, though removing the rear bolt that I was thinking was the one leaking showed I wasn't that wrong adressing one leaking spot to it because removing it a piece of rust remained attached to the bolt seal revealing a thinned rusted portion of the hole.
Water was indeed making its way through it.
The other hole was pristine.
Let's go ahead with the others.
I am worried for the spin basket though hope I didn't cause anything that will give me problems in the future.
Also I can see a seal in the shaft right under the two drive things that fits into the drive block.
I can't determine if that seal is good and I am afraid I might have ruined it as i heated the area with a heat gun unaware there was a seal down there.
That is the spin drive seal.
Should i take the stance i did not cause any damage?
|Post# 1071971 , Reply# 25   5/11/2020 at 13:52 (1,046 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)  || |
Layers of rust gunk Inside the seal lips it was actually holding the outer tub still glued to post.
What a mess!
CLICK HERE TO GO TO Kenmoreguy89's LINK
|Post# 1071972 , Reply# 26   5/11/2020 at 13:57 (1,046 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK)  || |
|Post# 1071973 , Reply# 27   5/11/2020 at 14:04 (1,046 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)  || |
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|Post# 1071974 , Reply# 28   5/11/2020 at 14:10 (1,046 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)  || |
|Post# 1071982 , Reply# 29   5/11/2020 at 15:51 (1,046 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)  || |
Seal reads 96690
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|Post# 1071984 , Reply# 30   5/11/2020 at 16:00 (1,046 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)  || |
None of what you're seeing is unusual for a machine of that age.
The centerpost is considered integral to the baseplate. There have never been factory-provided replacements of just the centerpost. The entire baseplate would have to be replaced and they're long not-available unless a servicer somewhere happens to have an old-stock item.
Combo52/John Lefever has described sourcing a stainless steel sleeve of proper size to fit over the centerpost and welded in place to deal with rusting.
Someone else "arris" removed his baseplate, took it to a metal fabrication shop for them to source and install a new stainless steel centerpost into it. Probably cost $$$.
Both are discussed in these threads from 5+ years ago:
61 Kenmore Washer
70's Lady Kenmore Agitator Removal
There are probably other threads where the procedure is mentioned.
|Post# 1071994 , Reply# 31   5/11/2020 at 16:46 (1,046 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)  || |
Thank you Glenn.
Well, it is only from 1983 not that old, I am finding out these whirlpool are really not as strong as I thought and I'm a bit disappointed, wonderful machines and wash action is something extraordinary, but thought of these being stronger and more well thought, at least is not as strong as the filter flo is to me, it seems to me it had by far better materials and much thicker and was more well-thought, of course different system suspended wash tub vs outer tub, the outer tub is so filmsey in it and wash tub too, am amazed to see how lightweight they are, porcelain enamel seems very thin quality... Speed Queen (Amana) is about the same but thought it was because it was more modern and for modern standards is anyways out of every league, anyways better than plastic, but honestly thought they were built better...
Am also puzzled at how much water still sit in its tub after drain, no water slides to have left water getting into the hole.. no wonder rust would appear soon in these.
Addd to everything evident neglect from whoever had it before...
I am sure it developed small occasional leakage from pump and post seal and the german Frau called Mr Mann that put casters to have her easily cleaning the leakage instead of repairing it and kept using it that way.
I will look into the sleeve approach maybe I can do that without actually welding it but using jb weld or similar stuff.
Anyways, I also wonder if gluing something above the seal kinda pro long it will do the job, just the portion where seal lips are is rusted, I was thinking of Sugru as I used it a lot of times to fix washer tubs.
I managed to fix several holes and a large rusted joint area in my 1964 Ignis tub and several dishwashers, the thing last ages and withstand boiling water perfectly.
But am afraid in the long run it will start detaching from the seal as the post is subject to vibrations.
This post was last edited 05/11/2020 at 17:09
|Post# 1072000 , Reply# 32   5/11/2020 at 17:32 (1,046 days old) by bradfordwhite (West Coast, U.S.)  || |
You might want to wait to find another "parts" machine so you can combine parts.
If this is your first time working on these, realize it's normal to have some disasters.
Also, any parts that go in the tub need to end up being water tight and sealed from exposure to water if they are metal, or they will just get rusty and disintegrate.
That torn basket top where the retainer ring is......others would know better but it might be difficult getting that to fit right on the sleeve again.
Yes when you're working in these you need a plethora of chemicals including :
liquid wrench- which you use to soften nuts and bolts where they're rusted,
lithium or silicone grease,
fine grade/sewing machine lubricating oil
rusty metal primer
rubbing alcohol in a spray bottle
white vinegar in spray bottle
in addition to
cellulose sponges, several sizes of scrub brushes, rubber gloves, latex gloves, paper towels, 5 gallon bucket, other buckets for soaking parts,
masking tape, sheet plastic, safety glasses, .....
And patience. Sometimes the repairs on these machines will require 10-20 steps and some of the steps will require drying times or soaking times.
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This post was last edited 05/11/2020 at 17:55
|Post# 1072006 , Reply# 33   5/11/2020 at 18:24 (1,046 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)  || |
Finding another belt drive whirlpool over here in Europe is so very rare.
You do find a good amount of direct drive stuff but belt drive are almost impossible to be found.
On the bright side it didn't have motor problem or I would have had to convert it to 120-volt hoping to find one in the United States or look for or 240 volt malleys whirlpool Motors in Australia.
Lots of washers I have of course I used donor machines to fix them, but whirlpool like these or Kenmore are impossible findings, that is why I had it shipped all the way from Germany.
And if I get one it might be in better conditions than this one is for sure.
Except for the spin tub that I cut I wouldn't say I had disasters happened but that this machine kind of is one itself
I didn't think it was such in a bad shape.
Lady said was fully working... Yeah..my a**!
By the way I got it thanks to a gentleman up here that made me the courtesy of go grabbing it and ship it to me as the lady was "come and get it".
The rules about those things being water tight are rules for whatever machine you work into and I know that.
Hopefully for what concerns the spin tub I can bang it normal round shape once I fit it in the new drive thingy and cover the cut area with some liquid stainless epoxy.
That glue is super strong and should protect the exposed metal.
As the basket sit on the drive on the bottom part my hopes are that the cut is not going to cause issues, the lip portion is just to retain the thing still and pushed and if I manage to bang it back and glue with that thing my hopes are that will stay that way and protected from water and rust.
I use Wd40 that's the best thing for me.
Equipment for Restorations are pretty much the same for every machine.
And most of the times you have to go creative but I always seek advice.
Like fixing muffs with a bike wheen air chamber.
Or gloves and glue to fix a particular pressure switch.
I have everything I need even bearing extractors...except for machines like this that you need a special wp tool, say the wrench that even if I got it at this point I'm not even sure it would have helped me budge the thing one bit..
I actually typically do less of much of the stuff you mention.
Granted that some products have a multi function.
My regret is that I brought it upstairs thinking it had nothing as I tried it 4 years ago when I got and it seemed fine. if I knew I would have repaired it in the workshop where also had space to work well on tub cleaing n and treat whatever had to be treated.
Now I need to bring stuff down there.
It's not the first time working and restoring a machine for me but sure is the first time for a whirlpool belt drive and access to diagrams are limited.
While I am disappointed about the quality of some components I am amazed of how they managed to get everything so complicated in It.
A machine you have to detach half of the transmission ( and I still have to completely get what to do exactly) just to replace the belt is a bit Crazy. Haha
This post was last edited 05/11/2020 at 18:41
|Post# 1072008 , Reply# 34   5/11/2020 at 18:30 (1,046 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)  || |
|Post# 1072009 , Reply# 35   5/11/2020 at 18:56 (1,046 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)  || |
Hi Federico, at this point you only need a center post seal and a tube of really good Marine sealant I use a 3M product and this washer can be cleaned up and put back together and you will have no leaks from the outer for at least a decade or more of use.
I will send you my phone # through the message system and you can call me if you have any questions.