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Thread Number: 82964
/ Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
frontload laundry |
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Post# 1072214 , Reply# 3 5/12/2020 at 22:13 (1,436 days old) by SudsMaster  (SF Bay Area, California) |
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| Post# 1072283 , Reply# 7 5/13/2020 at 10:08 (1,436 days old) by Golittlesport (California) | ||
early FL washers in USA
tested just average for soil removal by consumer mags. Modern FLs typically receive superior ratings. I think there are two reasons for this.
1) Low sudsing detergents in the 50's and 60's were not nearly as effective as today's HE detergents. There were only a few brands of low/controlled sudsing detergents and not as much effort went into their formulations. The high sudsing detergents cleaned better than the low sudsing ones in those days. Even the few low/controlled suds detergents available then produced much more foam than today's HE detergents do. Foam cushions the wash action in a FL washer, reducing the effectiveness. 2) Early FL washers filled the drum with much more water, which was good for rinsing but decreased wash action. Clothing rolled in the water instead of the lifting/dropping action in today's machines where clothing saturated with water/detergent solution is slapped against the drum. | ||
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Post# 1072289 , Reply# 9 5/13/2020 at 11:06 (1,436 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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| Post# 1072291 , Reply# 10 5/13/2020 at 11:12 (1,436 days old) by agiflow3 () | ||
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How does Miele with their honeycomb drums fare with let hair . | ||
| Post# 1072292 , Reply# 11 5/13/2020 at 11:13 (1,436 days old) by agiflow3 () | ||
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*pet....hard to type on a phone. | ||
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Post# 1072293 , Reply# 12 5/13/2020 at 11:30 (1,436 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Smaller diameter holes for suds container lessen amount of water used because less fills gap between inner and outer tubs. Sort of same as with solid tub washing machines. Some vintage European front loaders had very small slits along rear of suds container (and IIRC) also near vanes for same reason.
That being said smaller holes in suds container also means solids and other matter do not drain well from wash. Commercial/industrial H-axis washing machines, especially "sluice" type of machines used for healthcare linens remain with somewhat larger holes. This is to allow various matter (vomit, feces, hair, bits of food,sand,dirt, etc..) to drain away with each change of water. Hair of course is the bane of any washing machine, and there is only so much either top or side loading can remove under best of circumstances. Betty Furness demonstrated this with Westinghouse front loaders. With tumble dryers nearly standard in most home or laundromats removal of hair, lint and other debris is usually left to that device. However most doing laundry still want grit, dirt, and other sort of debris removed by washer if possible. Commercial laundries OTOH to avoid manually sluicing fouled washing. Indeed in many parts of EU those doing large amounts of nursing home or any other laundry routinely fouled by say feces are strongly recommended or even require to use a washer with sluicing capabilities. You could never do this sort of washing routinely in a domestic washer. Look at size of holes in suds container.. Yes, Miele and everyone else make all sorts of claims about "honeycomb" drums and or tiny holes promoting various textile saving benefits. But large factor still remains it allows them to reduce water use. Miele like others have incorporated that technology into their higher end "professional" washers, but don't believe any commercial/industrial machines do so. | ||
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Post# 1072315 , Reply# 13 5/13/2020 at 13:00 (1,436 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Post# 1072320 , Reply# 14 5/13/2020 at 13:31 (1,436 days old) by littlegreeny (Milwaukee, WI) |
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Westinghouse Laundromat | ||
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Post# 1072321 , Reply# 15 5/13/2020 at 13:58 (1,436 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Between honeycomb structure of drum and smaller holes more water remains in tub.This helps create a "wall of water" if you will that allows wash to slide which reduces friction.
Difference is sort of like that between a sieve and colander. The latter have larger holes because you want water to quickly pass through whatever is being drained. While the former's mesh screen will hold more fluid especially if there are solids mixed in. Or if anyone has made cheese, drained curds/whey through say cheesecloth you know yes fluids will drain out eventually, but at a very slow rate. OTOH if you used something with a wider mesh (larger holes) fluid would pass through quickly and more easily. On new Miele washers with honeycomb drum the gap between suds container and drum are far less than in past. In fact the two almost hug each other things are so tight. Don't have time atm to work out sums, but if you used same amount of water www.mieleusa.com/professi... Miele has nearly halved water consumption in their washers since 1990's. Recirculating jets will get things but so far, you still need a good amount of water in tub even if only to "wet nap" wash things. m.miele.com/en/com/washing-machi... | ||
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Post# 1072324 , Reply# 16 5/13/2020 at 14:05 (1,436 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Here is Sharp going on about a new washer with no holes in tub as if they invented the idea. One of benefits touted is lower consumption since all of it remains in tub. This rather than some having to fill gap between suds container and tub.
sg.sharp/no-holes-revolutionary-... | ||
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Post# 1072327 , Reply# 17 5/13/2020 at 14:32 (1,436 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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IIRC When Consumer Reports | ||
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Post# 1072347 , Reply# 18 5/13/2020 at 16:29 (1,436 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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1) It's a tub or outer drum, not a "suds container".
2) Holes are holes. Smaller holes and the honeycomb pattern simply are gentler on fabrics than larger holes. IMHO they have zilch to do with water consumption, and do not necessarily result in a smaller gap between wash drum and wash tub. 3) As stated the lack of effective low sudsing detergents in years gone by is likely the primary cause of any test results that don't show a significant improvement in cleaning performance in a vintage front loader vs. a vintage top loader. Other probable factors: A) User ignorance resulting in a tendency to overdose with high sudsing detergent, or soaps, with commensurately lower wash/rinse performance. B) In the absence of an internal water heater in most vintage front loaders, less water volume in front loader means lower effective wash temps vs. a top loader, because therms are lost heating up the washer internals as well as the laundry load. The larger water volume of a vintage top loader means there are more therms available to heat the washer and the load. C) Lower drum spin speeds in a vintage front loader vs. a modern one may mean less than adequate wash and rinse water removal. This effect would be minimized by the larger water volume of a vintage top loader which would dilute soil in wash water and suds in rinse water. | ||
| Post# 1072354 , Reply# 19 5/13/2020 at 17:45 (1,435 days old) by agiflow3 () | ||
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That Westinghouse commercial also tested against solid tub washers. Where was Whirlpool or Kenmore in those tests ? | ||
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Post# 1072357 , Reply# 20 5/13/2020 at 17:55 (1,435 days old) by imperial70 (MA USA) |
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So Glad you're safe Launderess Every time I see your posts and your photo (of Hyacinth) I can hear Hyacinth's voice as I read the words. It's very comforting and reassuring during these crazy times. Bless you, -paul | ||
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Post# 1072441 , Reply# 21 5/14/2020 at 05:32 (1,435 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Reply #14
Westinghouse heavily promoted their claims that Laundromat washers excelled at removing dirt from wash, and keeping it away.
Another early commercial with Betty Furness who by the way hadn't yet mastered her in front of camera skills. Watch her keep stealing side eye glances (cue cards?), and missing prompt on when to hit her marks. | ||
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Post# 1072442 , Reply# 22 5/14/2020 at 05:48 (1,435 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Yes, suds container is used
To describe washing machine tubs, at least in Europe and other parts of world.
Miele refers to "suds container" when speaking of their washing machine drums all the time. It is what the thing does; hold (contain) sudsy water. patents.google.com/patent/US7640... www.roth-werkzeugbau.de/n... | ||
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Post# 1072595 , Reply# 23 5/15/2020 at 01:10 (1,434 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California) |
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Post# 1072600 , Reply# 24 5/15/2020 at 02:17 (1,434 days old) by petek (Ontari ari ari O ) |
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In that solid tub washer during the spin cycle I'm trying to picture how the water drains out as freely as a tub with holes in it.. In a regular tub with holes the clothes are being pressed by force against the drum walls and some, much? of the water is being forced through those holes as well by centrifugal force.. But on a solid tub surface isn't it going to take longer for the water to make its way to the bottom of the tub, passing through all the clothes to exit through the holes on the tub floor?
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Post# 1072650 , Reply# 25 5/15/2020 at 10:07 (1,434 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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