Choosing to have gas appliances in your home is not just about the monthly cost or the obvious dangers they present to your immediate home.

Gas explodes.  Not just in your home where just a small pin hole leak can accumulate and cause your home to explode.  Also the pipes leading up to your house where they can rust and leak.  I've seen this several times and had to call for emergency service from the gas company.  Also the large laterals in the street and the big mains that deliver gas to communities.

Then there is all the work that goes into digging the ground to install these dangerous pipelines.

Gas cooking appliances can't easily be moved around like a electric toaster oven or cook plate.  

Most people already have electric.  Not every body has gas or propane.  Electric will continue to decrease in cost as the networks become more stable with the new Tesla battery back up systems that are already in use.  Plus, if you install your own solar system you can make your own FREE electric.

Solar panels don't explode.

Spend money on insulating your home.  It's cheap.  You can do it yourself yourself if you want.  

Even though I live within the TVA's distribution area where electricity is "cheap" (for electricity anyway) gas is WAAAAAY cheaper here for everything.  Don't get me wrong, I love my induction cooker...but I wouldn't get rid of gas for anything!

After a couple hours roasting turkey, gas always gave me a headache despite the leaky 70s house

and running the ducted vent fan.  Glad to be rid of gas.

Gas ranges are much dirtier tan any other gas appliance used in the home and it is the only one that is not required to be vented outside.

There is NO such thing as a properly adjusted gas range, when you boil a large pot of water on a gas cook-top if the flame touches the colder kettle it produces a large amount of CO, there is nothing you can do to reduce this.

Likewise turning on a gas oven or broiler produces large amounts of CO because the flame is burning against cold metal, this effect does subside somewhat as the metal gets hotter but preheating a gas oven in an average kitchen will quickly get you a 35 PPM reading of CO.

Gas dryers are not much of a problem, I can run a gas dryer unvented in the same shop area in my basement unvented for an hour drying a large load of clothing and get no reading on our CO monitor, this is the same monitor that will quickly give a reading of around 35 PPM when a preheat a gas oven to 350F in the same shop space. Gas dryers of corse are usually vented out doors because of all the lint and heat and humidity they produce.

The very least that needs to be done about this is to have a requirement that ventilation equipment be installed in kitchens that vents OUTSIDE, These fans should also have sensors that will turn them on automatically when they detect CO and possibility other pollutants.

John L.

and given my choice I’ll take electric.  It’s cleaner, safer and easier to control the heat.  

When we bought our home over 25 years ago we were moving from a condo that had a gas dryer, gas stove, gas water heater and gas forced air heating.  I was really worried that the cost for utilities was going to go thru the roof.  True, electric heat does cost a little more than gas, but I have asthma and the lack of dust in the air makes the extra cost worth it.  Our baseboard heaters are hydronic and very efficient.  

But what I like best about all electric is cooking on an electric stove.  Much cleaner more control and better baking.  On my electric stove I know that I can set the control to the lowest setting, say for cooking rice, and set the timer and will have perfectly steamed rice in 18 mins. With the gas stove in our old home, 9 times out of 10 when the flame was set low enough to steam the rice and not scorch it, the flame would go out and unless I watched it like a hawk I’d come back when the timer went off to find uncooked rice.  This is just one example, though small of how an electric stove performs more dependably.

Additionally, every time I used the gas oven in our old home the kitchen filled with CO vapors, because the new gas stoves are generally not vented outside.  I believe this is not healthy.  And the white formica countertops had to be scrubbed weekly to remove the film that covered them from the gas stove.

If people want to use gas thats their prerogative, as long as its still allowed in their jurisdiction. But really, one can adjust to anything if necessary, and sometimes can also be pleasantly surprised that the conversion from gas to electric that they dreaded turns out to be something they embrace rather than despise.  

Eddie

I’ve cooked on my niece's and her MIL’s gas stoves and it took over 30 mins to get a 6 qt. pot of water to boil.  

On my GE coil top I can get 6 qts. of water to a boil in 10 mins or less.  So I would have to say my experience has been electric is faster than gas.  

Seems like a lot of wasted energy using gas, even if it may be slightly less expensive.

As I’ve said before, you can adjust and get used to anything with time.

Eddie

"If gas was really detrimental to our health wouldn't something have been done long ago ?"

Oh gee then, I guess that's that.  No need to worry.  The world is perfect with the exception for those few documented problems on the big 'TV machine'. 

NO.

That attitude is NOT how a society improves.

"If you guys don't like gas that is fine but done deny or try to sway the people that do."

We most certainly WILL try and bring to peoples attention when there is a problem.  Trying to 'hush' people from protecting other innocent humans is a DEF. NO GO!  SHAME !

"We all have our likes and dislikes. We shouldn't go trying to "childproof" the whole world.""

Ah, YES, we SH|OULD !  Who wouldn't appreciate a better, safer, more efficient society.  Again, that is how the world improves.  It doesn't matter what the entrenched want.  

"Gas dryers are not much of a problem, I can run a gas dryer unvented in the same shop area in my basement unvented for an hour drying a large load of clothing..."

I would expect YOU to know better than that.

You should know that gas dryer manufacturers specifically point out in their owner's manuals that the dryers MUST be vented outdoors.

That the manufacturers of vinyl dryer ducting specifically state that their product is NOT to be used with gas dryers. 

That the makers of indoor dryer vent traps specifically state that their product is NOT to be used with gas dryers because of poisonous gases

Perhaps you typed that in incorrectly and meant something other?

It's interesting talking about unvented gas ranges and their effects on indoor air quality.  However, using other types of gas appliances that are installed with vents to outside should not negatively affect indoor air quality as all combustion by-products are exhausted outside. 

Gas cooking appliances are the exception as they are not themselves vented outside, although you may have a hood which may be vented outside and may or may not be turned on. 

As for venting a dryer indoors, this is usually not ideal (I wouldn't want to do it) due to the lint and moisture, unless you attach an additional "filter" to capture the fine lint and don't have a problem with humidity.  This applies to both gas and electric vented dryers.  In terms of any risk posed by venting a gas dryer indoors, this is interesting because most people believe that this is dangerous, yet they don't believe that having a gas range is dangerous.  In reality, a gas dryer should burn very efficiently and always has some kind of timer to ensure it should eventually shut off.  Whereas a gas cooktop can be burning far more gas than a dryer and it can be burning very inefficiently when you put cold pans on to boil, resulting in more emissions being given off into the home compared to the emissions from a gas dryer (other than what you would get anyway from an electric dryer).  

The installation of gas appliances in the UK is strictly regulated in terms of who can install them, what checks have to be made after installation, the suitable location of the appliance and the provision of make up air, if the combustion is not sealed from the room air.  The regulations on flues for gas appliances are strict, however, gas dryers are not required to be permanently vented outside unless required by the manufacturer, although it is highly recommended and I would imagine almost all are.  Gas dryers do need to have provision for ventilation for safe operation but permanent outdoor venting requirements are the same as for electric vented dryers (recommended but not compulsory).  This is because they don't pose any greater risk than a gas cooker/range/oven/hob/cooktop etc.  In fact, they are likely to be far far safer.  

As for cost, cooking typically accounts for only a small fraction of household energy use.  In Palm Springs, electricity is very expensive and you have either a tiered or time-of-use plan.  I have a tiered plan, which starts at $0.19/kWh and as you use more you then start paying $0.25 and then end up paying $0.43/kWh for the rest if you progress into the top tier.  Whereas gas is less than $0.04/kWh.  So the saving is clear.  However I still much prefer an induction cooktop over gas.  Induction can go lower and far higher than a gas burner.  It responds instantly.  It is far more efficient (uses less energy) and emits less heat to the room, offsetting the higher cost of electricity to some extent, but not completely.  I suspect that many (most?) people would prefer induction if they tried it for a couple of months and would not want to go back to gas.  

The only time I've seen pots turn black on the bottom using gas was propane. 

Back in the 80's, either Discover magazine or Popular Science had an article about gas ranges and their pollutants.  They also wrote about new type of burner, maybe like an inshot burner used in furnaces now, that fired below the cooktop and just sent the heat out through a ceramic distributor plate with holes in it.  There was also this metal ring that would just sit on the aluminum burner and cause it to burn even cleaner. 

Man I love the internet....here it is.  It's funny I can walk from one room to another and forget what I was going in there for but this article I found within 2 minutes because of my semi-photographic memory when it comes to pics and conversations.  I haven't seen this article since I read it way back in 1984.

books.google.com/booksQUESTIONMA...

Hi Greg, thanks for posting this, I always loved PS magazine 

It is interesting that when they convert the gas burner to more of a radiant burner design that it becomes so much more efficient at heating pans and releases less heat into the room, it makes it behave more like an electric element but at a lower operating cost.

My friend Tom reprinted an article from Appliance Manufacturer Magazine many years ago where Hardwick range company actually built and sold a gas range with an inferred gas top burner that also had a sensor so you could automatically control the pans temperature.

Gas ranges are not likely to go away in anyones lifetime here, BUT they need some serious redesign. 

Gas ranges have gotten WORSE in energy consumption since the mid 80s in the US because the appliance manufactures lobbied the department of energy not to have any regulations on gas or electric ranges auguring that all ranges were about the same and therefor there was no point in any regulation.

So range builders started making ovens bigger, windows bigger [ many ovens doors have zero insulation in them any longer ] they started going away from well insulated Self-Cleaning ovens. And on the surface burners got much higher BTU burners and heavy cast-iron grates that all have increased energy use and pollution in the home. Many of these features have also made ranges harder to use and clean as well, but manufacturers realize that ranges are more about styling and looking professional than actually being used to cook with.

This has resulted in longer oven preheat times and broilers that do not work nearly as well. The excessively large front burners on gas ranges cause lots of burns and accidents from flames shooting out from under pans every year. I often have customers that complain about this and I put in the smaller propane orifice and drill it out to a reasonable size. The other week I converted a 17,000 BTU burner on a KM-FD range to about 12,000 BTUs for example.

John L.

I've always preferred gas for a stove top and electric for roasting and baking.  We had a 1990 JennAir dual fuel range at the first home we owned, and I loved that system.  The electric convection oven was brilliant at baking and roasting.  We replaced it with a newer JennAir range that was all gas (Dave's decision, and he was the cook), and that thing would immediately give me breathing trouble when the oven was pre-heating.  I had to exit the kitchen when the oven was in use.  I hated it.  Fortunately, we sold the house within a few months of buying that stove. 

So, I do believe what they say about the toxic nature of cooking with gas, but I think it depends on the stove and the tuning of the burners, both on the cooktop as well as the oven.  Ideally, I'd like to replace the current OTR microwave with fan that stupidly blows the exhaust out into the kitchen, and have a vent put into the original flue/chimney for a real exhaust hood system.

I agree that electric cooktops are cleaner, and I like the idea of pot and pan handles that aren't too hot to the touch, but the infinite flame adjustment and instant on/off of gas is something you just can't match with the average electric burner. 

Much value is put on the infinite control of a gas flame and instant on and off of the heat.  It’s true that you need to adjust to taking into consideration of the residual heat  of an electric stove top burner. However, it really take very little time to get used to this.  In some ways its not different than cooking on an old fashioned wood stove in the respect of using residual heat.  Its just what you get used to.

Eddie

That's why I have an oven outside in the screen porch.  It can also go in a garage, or just outside on a table depending on where one is.

I'm using the oven roughly every other day.  Nearly everything gets cooked outside of the homes thermal envelope that way all the heat, cooking smells, humidity, and any possible sooting or burning just floats away.  One isn't adding to your homes Air conditioning burden and you don't have to deal with increased humidity or odors. 

When the timer you've set inside goes off, just grab a mit and go retrieve the item from the oven.

Interesting enough, I've even set my oven outside a window and cooked chicken when it was 10 degrees in Minnesota.  Works just as well.

Why anyone would choose to have an expensive 250 lb. block of steel stuck in their kitchen they can't move about to cook in or on when they can have a couple of small inexpensive, appliances they can easily lift, change out at will, and move to desirable locations... I have no idea.

Old habits are both a blessing and a curse especially when better technology arrives.

I got my stove top for $14 new.  The inside oven I found at a resale shop for $4 unused and it only gets used for nachoes or quick warm. 

The one I use outside where most baking happens I paid $3 for at a pay by the pound shop and it was hardly used and needed a switch. 

I fixed it and it works great now.

Both are full size you can get a pizza or bake a cake in them.  

Electrical fire facts

 

• In 2014-2018, electrical distribution or lighting equipment, such as wiring, lighting, cords, and plugs, was involved in an estimated average of roughly 34,000 (10%) reported home structure fires per year. These incidents caused an average of 470 (18%) civilian deaths, 1,100 civilian injuries (10%), and $1.4 billion (19%) in direct property damage annually.
• Electrical distribution or lighting equipment ranked first in direct property damage, and third among the major fire causes in the number of home fires, fourth in home fire deaths, and tied for third in home fire injuries. 
• Wiring and related equipment accounted for 7 percent of all home fires and nine percent of all home fire deaths.
• Cords or plugs were involved in only one percent of home fires but seven percent of the deaths. Extension cords dominated the cord or plug category.

 

I have yet to check out induction.  I've seen the single burner plug in units.  Just hasn't been a priority.

Just be sure you have a good exhaust system that vents outside, and use it even if you are just boiling water in a tea kettle.

This can be a good vented hood, a wall mounted fan or a ceiling mounted exhaust fan, If you have a ceiling fan in the kitchen with gas cooking NEVER run it when the range is on, it causes inverted air currents and poor combustion of surface burners making the pollution problems worse. A ceiling fan also causes air currents that keep vented hoods and wall or ceiling exhaust fans from doing their job.

If your kitchen does not have a vented exhaust system use a portable fan exhausting air from the nearest window to the range, even if the closest window in in the next room.

John L.

Most people don't have pacemakers.

We're always working to improve and become more efficient and safe.

50 years ago, people were still using coal and wood for heat.  Something that is so dirty noxious.  When I lived in the Boston area in 2006 one could still find listings in the news paper for people who sold and delivered coal.  Unthinkable.

I think that all residential gas service should be discontinued.  I think there should be an deliberate effort to convert to electric or solar.

In the sunny areas/cities where it typically doesn't get below 40 degrees and we really don't need large quantities of gas they should give it 12 months and have rate freezes on electric as well as offer customers help with installing alternative appliances.

In the north areas they should do similar but offer more help with insulation and heating appliances and funnel the gas to more portable neighborhood gas power plants.  But we need to remember that because the U.S. has been getting more efficient in it's electric usage, we peaked in electric consumption around 2012 so there is excess capacity already.

As solar and battery storage continues to take over, the idea of having volatile  gas appliances in our homes is going to look as ridiculous as having a coal burner.

And we can't forget, there was actually a time when homes were plumbed for (unvented) gas LIGHTING.  Can you imagine the heat build up and poisonous fumes?    OMG.  .....and the house fires. 

Those old technologies served their purpose..... it's just that better stuff came along.  

reply # 66 was probably a dramatization of a bad gas flame, no properly working gas range produces a flame that looks like that, 

Note : there are no adjustments possible on the great majority of gas ranges built today.

reply #69, I dare say no one has ever been harmed by either an induction cook-top or a microwave oven, up until a few years ago     [ last time I actually checked ] there had never been an injury from a MWO caused by MW energy according to HEW which regulates MWOS in the US, this makes MWOs about the safest appliance in a home, I suspect that the injury rate on ICTs will also be a fraction of injuries caused by conventual electric or gas CTs.

John L.

I think propane tanks up to 100 lbs are an acceptable risk.  If say someone wanted  to cook or use  a Bar-b-q, or fireplace once in a while.  

We obviously have limits on what is acceptable.  We don't allow people to buy uranium in easy open packages from the gas stations.  We don't allow the easy access to buying mercury in packs of 3 for $10.  Nor do we produce Chlorine Triflouride for kids to use in at home chemistry sets (though maybe in the 50s they did).

Leaded gas isn't made anymore.

We change.  We improve. 

The problem with piped in gas is you potentially have an unlimited supply.  With propane, if an empty home sat for say 4 months and had a small leak and it filled the home, it would fill until the tank was empty and then by infiltration that gas would be diluted. 

If it were a piped service it would fill and fill until inevitably a fire source ignited the gas and it would explode.

Hi Stan, basically open up the shutters as much as possible till just before the flame starts to blow away from the burner or gets noisy.

Little flecks of orange are just bits of dust etc being burned, if you blow on or around a gas flame you see this happen, if the flame has yellow-orange tips that is too little air or too much gas for the burner.

John L.

"I've got 6 CO detectors and they never go off"

How many nitrogen dioxide detectors do you have?  Pritdang toxic, specially in an enclosed environment where it can build up.  I'm not adendizing.  Gas has its place.  I'd dread the cost of electric house and water heat.  But if you're going to burn the stuff in your kitchen, at least skim this wiki:

Got it covered.  I use the range hood while smoking.  I only breathe the N₂O once.

3.5 ?  Sure, it doesn't take much. 

A flex connector would be best at the service entrance.

And know how to turn off your meter.

JFYI, the coast of California is not going to "fall into the ocean" as the media garbage like to pretend a while back to pump their ratings.

The coast is moving a few inches a year North and cities like L.A. and Sanfrancisco will eventually be part of Oregon, then Washington, and possibly Canada....

This is possible because of the Hayward fault.

California has Tsunami zones.  Eureka in particular, which also has quite a few earthquakes just off shore.  Used to live about 10 minutes from the beach.  Heard them.

Also didn't have gas service where I lived.   

No, I don't care to revisit the area....

It's interesting to think that the West coast could feel and see results of a earthquake on the other side of the vast sea.  

It underscores the fact that we live on a finite planet.  The ocean can act like a dishpan full of water and someone bumps the side.