Thread Number: 83593  /  Tag: Wringer Washers
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Post# 1079173   6/29/2020 at 16:40 (1,390 days old) by Mis-T (Minnesota)        

I read Larry's thread and had to join this group.

My Maytag was my grandmother's, is doing the same thing with the pulley that is connected to the PU that Larry's was doing (stopping after a certain point, but I can spin it the opposite way without it locking up). I am going to have to take a look under the hood (so to speak) and need to find out where I can get the proper seal and gaskets... I called Phil's # and sadly he passed away 3 months ago. Any help would be appreciated.





Post# 1079299 , Reply# 1   6/30/2020 at 08:40 (1,389 days old) by e2l-arry (LAKEWOOD COLORADO)        
MAYTAG PARTS

 Hello - That's sad news about Phil. He was so helpful to me and a lot of others. Another resource for me was Dave Harnish. You can try his website DavesRepair.partsquick.com or email drs@sosbbs.com. I don't have a phone number but if he still has his website maybe you'll find ti there. It's been about 8 years since I've been in touch so I hope he's still around and healthy. He too was always very helpful.

When mine was freezing up, I opened up the power until and found some small pieces of metal that had chipped off the gear. These pieces would float around in the oil until sooner or later one of them wold get between the gears and lock them up. Turning to pulley in the opposite direction and they would dislodge. Freeing up the movement of the gears until the jammed again. I ended up swapping out the power unit with one I found on Ebay. Also an excellent source for old Maytag parts.

If you can't swap out power units you could probably just thoroughly clean out the unit, removing any old metal fragments and refilling it. There's really not much to these parts. Nothing you'want to tear into anyway. That's why back in the day, Maytag repairmen would swap out Power Units rather then rebuild one for the customer.

Good Luck!

Larry



Post# 1079356 , Reply# 2   6/30/2020 at 17:54 (1,389 days old) by Mis-T (Minnesota)        
Maytag information

 Thanks, Larry, I will look into that. Your thread was very helpful to me and I was glad you documented it. I thought that maybe the piece that got lodged into yours may have come from a rusted part of the tub that may have found its way in there.

My aluminum tub is in great shape. So my thought was that water is getting passed the tub gasket causing oil to run down the inside leg. (Maybe that is not the same oil I put in and it is the other grease that is breaking down.) It started last year when it would seize up and the belt would spin and luckily I was right there and able to unplug it right away.

This year I did 3 loads before it seized and I was getting oil leaking from the vent hole and down the inside the leg.

I put in 90 weight oil in the vent hole and was able to wash 3 more loads before it seized again. I emptied out all bad oil (thicker than Hershey's Syrup and messy). Put in approx. 8 ounces (which in my reading, should have been 12 ounces?)

Did 3 more washes and it seized, so something is going on in there. I plan on using a Dremel to see if I will be able to cut a slot in the top of the brass gulmites and use a screwdriver to remove them. Then replace them with stainless steal bolts instead. Do you know if there are seals around the gulmite bolts?

Also, are you still using your Maytag?

Post# 1079421 , Reply# 3   7/1/2020 at 08:53 (1,388 days old) by e2l-arry (LAKEWOOD COLORADO)        
Motor siezing

 No, nothing for the the tub itself can make it into the power unit. Something broke loose inside the unit itself, hopefully just a small chip out of one of the gears. It circulates around in the oil until it lodges between the gears, locking it up. You're going to have to get inside it to check it out. You're going to need to anyway because you can't add oil back in through the vent hole. It's one way, out only. It's doing what it was designed to do. Remove excess fluid due to the increase in fluid volume caused by a water leak. The water leak is through the agitator seal. If it were leaking between the tub and power unit or one of the bolts the water would leak onto the floor. Phil sold replacement hex bolts and they did have rubber gaskets on them.

Good luck removing the gulmite bolts. I bought a Gulmite wrench I found on line and that did the trick. I was done with it so I gave it to a guy in need here 2 years ago or I'd give it to you. So yes, when you replace with hex bolts use some sort of gasket.

Yes, I'm still using my Maytag. Not as exclusively as I used to. Sometimes I just take the easy way out and use my front loader. But I used the Maytag more in the summer when I hang clothes outside. The wringer only removes about 75% of the water a high spin automatic does. And that seems inefficient to put those clothes in an electric dryer. But if they take an extra hour to dry on the line, who cares?

Let us know your progress on Grandma's washer or if you have any more questions. I'm glad my post helps!

Larry

Post# 1079432 , Reply# 4   7/1/2020 at 09:41 (1,388 days old) by Mis-T (Minnesota)        
Thanks Larry

 I appreciate your input. That gives me a better understanding of how the PU works. After I had drained the oil and believed I could put it back in the vent hole, I am guessing the unit is dry now.

Well, I hope my adventure into this won't be as hard as yours was.

Thanks again!





Post# 1079510 , Reply# 5   7/1/2020 at 18:57 (1,388 days old) by Mis-T (Minnesota)        

Oh, I just thought of something, you said the oil has only one way out (you would know).

My curiosity would be if I ran that pulley backwards enough, could that possibly
pull the lubricant into the power unit?

Post# 1079560 , Reply# 6   7/2/2020 at 08:11 (1,387 days old) by e2l-arry (LAKEWOOD COLORADO)        
No

 Reversing the pulley direction would't work as a vacuum to pull oil back in. On the other hand I doubt your power unit is empty. These units can run a LONG time with very little oil in them. You'll see when you get in there. As long as the few moving parts have a coating of oil on them they won't ware. You'd have to run it for years possibly before all the oil was displaced by water. You'd get to the point where you have water running down the left rear leg and I've never seen that. By then that parts would rust and it would lock up for good. These were made/forged out of iron. Like a cast iron skillet, if it's unseasoned, no oil coating and exposed to water, it will rust almost immediately.

Post# 1079580 , Reply# 7   7/2/2020 at 12:53 (1,387 days old) by geoffdelp (SAUK RAPIDS)        

Hi Mis-T and E2L-arry ... you can still buy new parts for your Maytag wringer machine. See the link below.

These are Amish-made parts and are quite good. I bought a replacement wringer head for a Model E or J; unbelievable! I'm like a kid in a candy store looking at their website; so happy to have found it!

They also have the service manuals available online.

Enjoy!

CLICK HERE TO GO TO geoffdelp's LINK
Post# 1079668 , Reply# 8   7/3/2020 at 10:30 (1,386 days old) by e2l-arry (LAKEWOOD COLORADO)        
WOW!

 Hey Geoff! You're right. This is a GREAT resource for parts. I noticed the tub repair ring for $23.10. Just what I needed when I first got my leaky machine. Luckily Dave sold me a new tub but this part would have been easier and cheaper.

Tanks for the link and nice hearing from you.

Take Care - Larry

Post# 1079723 , Reply# 9   7/3/2020 at 22:09 (1,386 days old) by geoffdelp (SAUK RAPIDS)        
Great Site ...

 Hi Larry ... good to hear from you, too! I've reached out a couple of times about that website to individuals who were struggling to find parts, advice, etc. The last time, a person posted here about an N2L; surprised that no one responded. Oh well!

I've watched some YouTube videos on people using these machines and just cringe at the abuse! The biggest issue is not enough water and then overloading. Those machines were meant to be used with a full tub of water and not be overloaded. Instructions were/are pretty clear. That's probably what happened to yours; it was overloaded so much in its previous life that when you got it, it had already suffered damage to the gears. Those are lifetime gears; pretty hard to bust.

You are also right that it was easier for Maytag service people to send wringer heads and power units back to Maytag to be rebuilt and replace them with either new or used. Replacing the gears in the PU is tricky and the thrust adjustment is really difficult to do. Same thing with rebuilding the wringer head gears; I've only done it a couple of times and it was so, so difficult! The Maytag plant had all the right tools and equipment to quickly rebuild.

I bought a whole replacement wringer for a Model E/J from Cottage Craft Works; I couldn't be more happy! Expensive, but it was worth it to me. Wrings really tightly and I haven't taken the cap off to see what they did; doesn't appear to have oversized roller holders but I do notice a large washer on the lower roller to the right next to the drain pan cam.

Amish people still use wringer washers exclusively and the supplier to Cottage Craft Works is selling quality parts; especially the drain hoses and seals. Pretty impressive. Glad they are there and hope they keep doing it! They also have a lot of other cool things. Reminds me of Lehman's Hardware, but Lehman's has a lot more items. Still great, though.

Take care ... Happy 4th!! :)

Geoff




Post# 1079724 , Reply# 10   7/3/2020 at 22:56 (1,386 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
Have a copy of service manual for Maytag wringer washers, and yes it tells servicemen best to send entire wringer heads and power units back to factory for repair. That or best sell or whatever customer a new one, then send damaged units back or something.

Amish Maytag repair service we use said one of the most common bits of abuse was things that were too thick being put through wringers. The machines can handle blankets, quilts and other thick things, but there are limits.

What probably happens is people get hold of a Maytag wringer and assume machine can handle anything thrown at it; while that is true to an extent again there are limits.

Thing people don't get about wringer washers in general is that yes, they are a great way to plow through tons of laundry quickly. But you have to respect capacity requirements. Maytag is quite clear on this; you fill washer, start agitation, then add items only long as there is free circulation.

Post# 1079942 , Reply# 11   7/5/2020 at 17:13 (1,384 days old) by Mis-T (Minnesota)        
Thanks everyone for your input

 I only plan on getting into the PU and see what is going on. I was there when it seized and unplugged it immediately. I was able to free pulley and need to figure out what is causing it. We have 6 of the Gulmite bolts out and are haveing more difficulty with the ones that are set deeper. I have some messages on FB and may have a few leads on tracking down the tool for the last two bolts.

Tub is removed and I am putting things in my cart at the Cottage Craft Works that Geof provided. Thanks, Geoff!

I don't plan on doing anything with the wringer and it's components as it has always worked great with no issues. I have it off for now as it is easier to work around while I'm cleaning up the oil and working on getting the top plate off. I cleaned around the two remaining bolts and have cleaned around the other small remaining screw and have WD-40 on them (hoping that will help.

Will keep my thread updated as I go, but we are having some pretty hot weather this week. Also have a hotwater heater that needs replacing and gardening to do.







Post# 1081507 , Reply# 12   7/18/2020 at 11:53 (1,371 days old) by Mis-T (Minnesota)        
Yeah! We got the last 2 gulmite bolts out!

 After soaking the last 2 stubborn ones with WD-40 and CLR, cleaning around them and making the slot a bit deeper, they finally gave loose. We were also able to get the small screw out by doing the same. I now have a little CLR around the place where the top plate and the PU meet.

After laying it face down, the pulley is free again. So I'm anxious to see what the issue is inside the unit. I will grab a big flat head screwdriver and do the tap, tap, tap after I stand it up again.

Post# 1081526 , Reply# 13   7/18/2020 at 15:22 (1,371 days old) by Mis-T (Minnesota)        
Some pictures to show the work in progress.

 I though I would post these and I can get to work on the Power Unit. I got the PU plate off and am draining the oil. Will update with pictures of that soon.

1. Is the inside of tub with gulmite bolts.

2. Is the inside of tub with 6 of the gulmite bolts removed.

3. Is the tub removed.

4. Is the underside of the tub.

5. Is the inside of the Maytag with the tub removed.

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Post# 1081537 , Reply# 14   7/18/2020 at 18:21 (1,371 days old) by Mis-T (Minnesota)        
Center plate is off

 Man it is gunky in there! I'm not sure of the age of this machine. but my Grandma bought it new and my older sister remembers her using it when she was 9 years old, but it could be older than what she remembers (she was born in 1956, so + 9 would be 1965).

It is a Maytag Gyrator Serial # 37757VL I tried looking it up, but didn't find anything and I am only curious, but it would be nice to know.



Post# 1081594 , Reply# 15   7/19/2020 at 09:40 (1,370 days old) by e2l-arry (LAKEWOOD COLORADO)        
June 1964

 Mine also ends in VL - I used a chart I found somewhere in here that told me it was manufactured in June 1964. Mine is S/N 38615VL so just 858 units after yours. They're practically twins!

Post# 1081595 , Reply# 16   7/19/2020 at 10:04 (1,370 days old) by Mis-T (Minnesota)        
Thanks Larry!

 That puts it in the ballpark my sister remembered.

Okay so more pictures.

1. - Inside the power unit. Very dirty

2. - Red outlines where there is some damage to the teeth and the blue show something which appears to be rubber?

3. - Underside of the PU plate, the red shows some sort of rubber hanging out of a hole.(I am thinking it is a piece of the deteriorated water seal.)

4. - Shows what a magnet picked up that was outlined in blue above.




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Post# 1081731 , Reply# 17   7/20/2020 at 13:28 (1,369 days old) by Mis-T (Minnesota)        
So anyone know

 In the 3rd picture in my last post what that rubber piece is? I didn't see anything like that in the manual for a part like that. Also, when I started to clean it, it just fell out and the hole that was there was gunky with the same type of rubber.

Post# 1081736 , Reply# 18   7/20/2020 at 14:09 (1,369 days old) by e2l-arry (LAKEWOOD COLORADO)        
??????????????

 I have no idea what that rubber piece was but there should be no rubber parts in the power unit. I looked at my old center plate and mine just has an empty hole where yours shows that piece hanging out of.

Maybe if Geoff sees this he can help? I remember a rubber plug. It was long and tapered. You pushed it through a hole, pulled it down as tight as you can get it then cut off the excess, flush to the surface, with a razor blade. I can't remember exactly where that went or it's purpose.

Chipped teeth, just as I suspected! When those little pieces circulate between the gears, it locks up. Turning the pulley backwards makes them fall out. Then it runs freely until one of the little buggers gets caught again. It would seem there's enough contact even with the chips to run properly. If the tooth was damaged enough or missing completely the would sequence would change and I assume just lock up for good. So I think you'll be okay just cleaning the thing out, get any metal and rubber debris out of there. I'd check on line, Ebay for another power unit just in case. That's what I did. I still have my original power unit but don't know if it's any good. I just swapped it out.

You'll definitely want a new agitator seal. Inexpensive and easy to replace. Does yours have the original black agitator? The newer aqua colored ones have an upgrade to them to help keep water away from the shaft. It's just a cup-like feature that works as an air gap so the shaft has minimal water exposure during use.

I'd clean it out with de-greaser or brake cleaner from the Auto Parts store. I used soap and boiling water, probably not the best choice but I coated it down with a generous dose of WD-40 so it wouldn't rust.

Looks like you're making good progress!



Post# 1081867 , Reply# 19   7/21/2020 at 12:38 (1,368 days old) by Mis-T (Minnesota)        
Yeah it is strange

 I am finding this fascinating though. I cleaned it up with brake cleaner.

The rubber plug you are referring to was the replacement idea for the little screw. We were able to salvage the one that this one had.

Everything is original on this machine except for the hose. I cleaned out the little pieces that broke off and what was mashed into a few of the grooves of the worm gear (I used a dental pick).

The gears are not affected by the minor damages and it operates as expected. I am waiting for a few more parts and will have it together soon.

I didn't know the new agitators had that feature, that is a brilliant idea. I still have the original black agitator, I wonder if they sell just the cup feature separate and can be adapted to the old one.

My Grandmother always removed the agitator and cleaned machine. I just followed what she had always done, so mine has never gotten fused on.

Thanks to your very detailed thread, I learned so much!

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Post# 1081869 , Reply# 20   7/21/2020 at 12:46 (1,368 days old) by althus (Canada)        
Hi there!

 Hi there,

Did you leave the transmission on the machine when you opened the cover? I'm thinking of opening up my mom's N2LP to check on the oil situation. I tipped it over to clean out the water drain and let a lot out through the vent hole... *before* I found this site! The service manual says to take it off entirely to disassemble it. But I don't want to do that. It would help my decision if I know I don't have to take it off completely. If I do I might just leave it.

Thanks!

Post# 1081871 , Reply# 21   7/21/2020 at 13:15 (1,368 days old) by Mis-T (Minnesota)        
Hi Althus

 I did not remove it from the machine. I worked on it from the top. I too didn't want to create too many variables when working on older machines.

I laid it on it's side to clean the power unit and let most of the bad oil drain out of it, then cleaned it with brake cleaner. Worked wonderfully.

If you do it this way, I would be sure to have the leg with the horizontal thingy that goes to the wringer on the top (when it is on its side) that way you won't be getting dirty oil coming out the vent hole.



Post# 1081873 , Reply# 22   7/21/2020 at 13:22 (1,368 days old) by althus (Canada)        
Thank you!

 Oooh boy she might be coming apart now :)

Post# 1081875 , Reply# 23   7/21/2020 at 13:30 (1,368 days old) by Mis-T (Minnesota)        
Althus

 If the oil that leaked out is the color of mine above, there is most likely water getting into the PU.

So if you plan on cleaning out bad oil, I should have also mentioned that I lined a small box with plastic and newspapers to collect the oil, so it wouldn't get all over the inside of the machine.

You can find new gaskets for these machines, but I made my own from cork.


Post# 1081878 , Reply# 24   7/21/2020 at 13:34 (1,368 days old) by geoffdelp (SAUK RAPIDS)        

Hi Mis-T; you're doing a great job! My concern about the missing teeth would be that the pinion drive would "jump"; maybe causing more damage. I have never experienced that! Could that be from washing too many heavy items over a long period of time? Those were casted parts and were tough. I would think about replacing that worm gear; but boy, is that a booger! You have to pound out the rod and adjust the thrust. Uggh ... wonder if the Amish supplier for Cottage Craft Works does that? They have full replacement units, but for a few hundred bucks! Larry's right; watch on eBay for a cheaper PU.

That is correct; that's a rubber plug that is the replacement for a tiny lead screw and washer that Maytag used to finish the seal of the center plate to the PU. Needless to say, probably because of environmental issues, Maytag stopped using lead in/on their appliances (remember, too, Maytag used to MAKE all of their own parts; they had smelting capability). Larry is right, you are to push it through from the top and then lop it off with a razor blade to flush to the center plate. You can buy the replacement rubber; comes in about a 4" strip.

Replacing that water seal is a must, as well. Very easy to do. The agitators that Maytag used prior to the turquoise ones, still do an effective job of keeping the water from the center seal. When pushed down all way over the stop ring, it created a "vacuum" and Maytag had a breather hole near the base of the agitator to make it easier to remove. I cringe when I see videos of people allowing the agitator to pop off the agitator post when washing; that whole area gets exposed to too much water. People just don't realize, I suppose. They didn't know you could easily replace the stop ring to get the agitator to stay on its post!

The turquoise agitator has a built-in cup for the area around the stem; it isn't something you can buy/install separately. Never remove the agitator until all the water has been drained from the tub. Also, you shouldn't spray the stem or center seal to clean it; just the area on the center plate called the "sediment zone". That was one of Maytag's feature! All the dirt/gunk gets trapped down there during washing so you can just flush it down the drain. :-)

althus ... if you tipped your mom's N2L over and had a lot of oil/water run out of the right angle drive, you really don't have a choice but to remove the tub and pop that center plate off the transmission to see how much oil has escaped. At that point a "flush and fill" would be a great idea to get it to last another 50 years! These machines should only be tipped on the front ... where the "Maytag" decal and the agitator start button is.

Post# 1081881 , Reply# 25   7/21/2020 at 14:04 (1,368 days old) by Mis-T (Minnesota)        
Thank Geoff for your response

 I don't see any jumping happening in there when I turn the pulley. Now that the pieces are out of there and the worm gear is free of debris, it appears to be working smoothly.

I'll see when I get the rest of my parts and get it back together. If I do have to replace it then it won't be as difficult as before as I am using the Hexagon stainless steal bolts.

I have used the machine since the mid-80's. She has done a lot of loads and I usually do small loads then bring them into my automatic washing machine to do the rinse and spin. That way I can just keep washing and washing.

Not too particularly fond of the turquoise agitator as my wringer has the red release bar. My black agitator has a chip on the top, so water can easily get to the water seal. I maybe should try some Flex Seal to patch it.

I read on another thread that the seal can also be purchased here: www.appliance-parts-exper...

Post# 1081883 , Reply# 26   7/21/2020 at 14:06 (1,368 days old) by althus (Canada)        
Hm, yeah that's actually another question I had

 Whether I should order gaskets online from cottagecraft, or make replacements. By my understanding there are two that I'd need, the tub seal, and then the transmission cover gasket. Your cork one is A-OK? What are you going to use for the tub seal?

Also, some people on here have said to use 90 weight gear oil, while others have said you can still get actual Maytag oil. Any thoughts on that?



Post# 1081885 , Reply# 27   7/21/2020 at 14:36 (1,368 days old) by Mis-T (Minnesota)        
Althus

 I had an experienced mechanic check it out and said the cork will work just fine.

The seal that is between the tub and machine seems to be fine. I cleaned around it and as a precautionary will probably use a fine bead of Silicone Sealant and let that cure. (I wash outside so if it leaks badly, I will replace it).

I am going to use 80W 90 Weight Gear oil. I will start with 12 ounces.

I haven't tacked the gasket down yet, as I am still cleaning the PU cover.

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Post# 1081888 , Reply# 28   7/21/2020 at 14:58 (1,368 days old) by geoffdelp (SAUK RAPIDS)        

Wow ... that cork seal looks mighty professional! Bet it works just fine. I would think that 90 weight oil will work well; 12 ounces should be just about right. As the worm gear moves back and forth, it pushes oil up through the opening on the bracket to well lubricate the gear and the pinion gear.

Good luck ... it looks like you are almost done!

You'll have to prowl around the Internet and see if you can't find yourself a replacement black agitator with a good spline. I lucked out once and found a black plastic agitator, made with the same material as the turquoise one, with a good metal spline. I've hung on to that baby; very nice. Maytag didn't make them but for a short period of time before they switched over to the turquoise. Mostly, the red and black agitators were bakelite. They made them the same color and material as the automatic ones. I've got an original aluminum one; weighs a ton! I'm afraid to drop it!

Have fun; you'll have to send a photo with it in operation!!

Great machines; solid product!!




Post# 1082032 , Reply# 29   7/22/2020 at 19:10 (1,367 days old) by Mis-T (Minnesota)        
Thanks Geoffdelf

 I am anxious to get the ol' girl up and running again. Parts are expected tomorrow.

I was fascinated to see how the oil was distributed to the other gears once I opened it. I had to show a couple of my grandsons how this machine operated! They were intrigued. We have to teach the younger generations how to take care of these machines or they may not use them correctly.

Post# 1082821 , Reply# 30   7/28/2020 at 16:22 (1,361 days old) by Mis-T (Minnesota)        
Here we go!

 Got the top plate of PU in place and tested her before putting the tub in and it purred along just fine. One of the hardest things I had to do was put the white, wire spring (shaped like a "C") back on. It attaches to the underside of the top plate and to the arm that engages the PU to the agitator (the pull lever). I made sure it engaged when the knob is pulled out and stops the agitator when pushed in.

So it looks like I got it right. That was the one thing I didn't take a picture of when disassembling and I had to rely on memory. I did have to walk away from it a few times, but now it is in place.

Just a few more steps to go!

Post# 1082966 , Reply# 31   7/29/2020 at 17:13 (1,360 days old) by Mis-T (Minnesota)        
Yeah!

 On my 3rd load! No leaks and she's running better than ever!

I love these machines! Thanks everyone for the help.

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Post# 1149456 , Reply# 32   5/24/2022 at 18:52 (696 days old) by Mis-T (Minnesota)        
Update

 Almost 2 years since I revived my grandmother's Maytag. The 'ol gal did great for me last year without a single issue; getting ready to get her out to do some spring cleaning.

I often think about the research I had done to try and save this old relic. I was so fortunate to find a very well documented post from Larry.

Then I had the fortunate experience to have Larry, himself, and Geoffdelf respond and help me understand some questions I had, which helped me get through the process.

Also, Althus, hope you were successful with your washer!



Post# 1149486 , Reply# 33   5/25/2022 at 08:36 (695 days old) by geoffdelp (SAUK RAPIDS)        

Aren't those the best machines? They run and run ... as long as you care for them. Always wash with a full tub of water and keep it full by adding more water in between loads. Never overload. Be kind to the wringer and it will serve you faithfully for a lifetime.

I've got mine all ready for this weekend to clean bedding and rugs as a start to spring cleaning! :-) Weather should be nice for hanging things outside.

So glad you enjoy caring for and using your grandmother's Maytag; that was a great gift you got! :-)


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