Thread Number: 83882  /  Tag: Vintage Dishwashers
Potscrubber III?
[Down to Last]

automaticwasher.org's exclusive eBay Watch:
scroll >>> for more items
Post# 1082408   7/25/2020 at 21:02 (980 days old) by Cam2s (Nebraska)        

I need another dishwasher like I need a hole in my head but this older GE showed up on a local Facebook group. Iíve always been fascinated by the older GE potscrubbers...if it was a 1200 I probably would have been on the way already. This is one looks fairly upper end with the all the buttons on the panel. The seller doesnít include any other pictures or information other than it works. The price is free, but Iíd have to get a truck and make a little drive to get it. Would this be a fun machine to play with or not worth the hassle of getting it?

  View Full Size



Post# 1082442 , Reply# 1   7/26/2020 at 08:48 (979 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
Worth it!

panthera's profile picture

Probably has the wonderful lower spray arm which rotates on a cam to make sure all the corners get clean!

We've worked on several pre-Potscrubber II and post-Potscrubber II dishwashers through the years and no question about it - between the outstanding cleaning and the parts availability, they're totally worth it.

Someday, I'm going to tackle a Potscrubber II, just to see if they're really that awful.

I'm curious what the other front panel colours will be!


Post# 1082454 , Reply# 2   7/26/2020 at 10:50 (979 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
This is pretty high up in the line and if it is a PotScrubber III, then it would have the Multi-Orbit wash arm.

Post# 1082459 , Reply# 3   7/26/2020 at 11:06 (979 days old) by bigalsf (Salt Lake City)        
GSD1000

It appears to be a GSD1000, based on this info from their brochure:

 

 

 

 

Post# 1082462 , Reply# 4   7/26/2020 at 11:32 (979 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
GE Pots-Scrubber 3

combo52's profile picture

This is just as good as the GSD1200s, it just has a more reliable timer, just throw it in the mini-van or station wagon these are not that large.

 

John L.


Post# 1082481 , Reply# 5   7/26/2020 at 14:51 (979 days old) by jamiel (Detroit, Michigan)        

jamiel's profile picture
LOL I remember slinging a new one (remember, they're poly tub) into my brother's Accord hatchback to run it home rather than wait for a delivery.

Post# 1082488 , Reply# 6   7/26/2020 at 15:28 (979 days old) by Cam2s (Nebraska)        

Well I could fit a dishwasher into my old Cadillac but thereís no way one is going in my C class sedan than I have now. Probably just as well otherwise Iíd be dragging home stuff all the time. It has to be really worth to go through the hassle of asking someone to help me or renting a van for a day.

Post# 1082978 , Reply# 7   7/29/2020 at 18:50 (976 days old) by Cam2s (Nebraska)        

Well since I have the will power of a potato and was able to source a van here we are on our way home.

  View Full Size
Post# 1082982 , Reply# 8   7/29/2020 at 19:09 (976 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
Congratulations Cameron. Looking forward to more pics!!!

Post# 1082986 , Reply# 9   7/29/2020 at 19:34 (976 days old) by Bigalsf (Salt Lake City)        
Nice!!!

Congrats!!

Post# 1082992 , Reply# 10   7/29/2020 at 20:02 (976 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture
Well worth it. Low will power is a good thing when it comes to appliances.

Post# 1082999 , Reply# 11   7/29/2020 at 20:42 (976 days old) by Cam2s (Nebraska)        

Made it home. It is in fairly good shape for its age. Definitely will need some cleaning. Looks like the seller loosened some important bits underneath during the removal process but hopefully that will sort out easily enough. Here are some pics to enjoy for the moment.

Side note...does anyone have any experience in turning a built in into a portable, or at least making temporary connections? I would really like to leave the Bosch in the actual dishwasher spot in the cabinet.


  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 15         View Full Size
Post# 1083018 , Reply# 12   7/29/2020 at 22:04 (976 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Ge Pots-Scrubber 3

combo52's profile picture

Cool this is an early Multi-Orbit Wash-Arm Dw with the green wash arms, we have this exact model in our  wall of DWs at the museum. 

 

The mounting module with the inlet valve and electrical connections is supposed to be loose, you attach it to the floor hook up the water and power then slide in the DW and attach the inlet hose o the IV and plug in the power connector.

 

It looks like the pump has seen better days, it might leak a little, if you really wanted to use this DW much you should install the newer pump PSC motor, unless you want the original roar of the GE shaded pole motor and all the hot that it puts out [ good thing about these GE SP motors is all the heat and air movement under the DW really helps dry up any leaking water ]

 

John L.


Post# 1083030 , Reply# 13   7/29/2020 at 23:53 (976 days old) by Cam2s (Nebraska)        

Thank you for the information on the water inlet that is something I havenít seen before. The subfloor here is concrete so it will just have to continue to be a free floater. The inlet pipe looks to be a different size than what the water connection is but that is an issue for later. Started cleaning it up...not horribly bad for a machine of its age. Looks like the rinse aid and possible the detergent cup is leaking though. As far as replacing the pump is concerned, Iíll probably clean it up and use it and see how it is first. If it leaks that will force my hand. May let that be a project for down the road unless I can source one of the cheap.

  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 14         View Full Size
Post# 1083035 , Reply# 14   7/30/2020 at 02:03 (976 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR)        
Built in to Portable

chachp's profile picture

 

I have done a number of these.  What I did was buy a few of these Portable Dishwasher hose sets.  I watch for them on eBay as they will come up used for cheaper than this one but you get the idea.  Then I made very simple carts with four pieces of wood and four wheels.  I get them all at Home Depot.  I will see if I can get some photos for you as I think a picture will speak a thousand words.  The key with the cart is to extend it in the front a couple of inches so when you have the dishwasher open, full of dishes it won't tip forward.  You can connect that assembly to the cart that would be connected to a wood sub floor.



CLICK HERE TO GO TO chachp's LINK on eBay

Post# 1083052 , Reply# 15   7/30/2020 at 05:51 (975 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR)        
Built in to portable....

chachp's profile picture

 

I made these carts 25” X 25”.  You can use whatever wood you have.  I think these were something like ½” X 3”.  Something like that.  I used 2” wheels.  All bought at Home Depot.  I also picked up a dishwasher cord to use for power.  The hose assembly you see in the picture is one I picked up really cheap on eBay.  It had a leak that I had to repair.  These don't come up cheap as often as they used to because people don't seem to be converting as many machines anymore but keep an eye out.  They do pop up unless you want to pay full price for one.  There is a link to a new one below.

 

I placed the dishwasher about 1” from the back and bolted the frame to the cart.  This left plenty in the front of the cart to insure it didn’t tip forward when full of dishes.  It was so easy to make.  I am not handy with wood working but this was just about the math to get the wood in the correct lengths which I did and then had them cut at Home Depot.  When I got home all I had to do was put it together. I used wood glue to get it how I wanted it then secured it with screws that went through both pieces of wood.  The wheels screwed on from the bottom, so I used longer screws as well for those to give it a little extra strength.  I have done a number of these and they work really well.  You can insulate the dishwasher as I did with this one and that helps with the noise a little bit too.

 

BTW: There was a discussion about stainless panels on a 17 series machine.  I have them on this dishwasher.  When I got the machine, it had avocado panels, but a very generous member sent me the stainless panels for my birthday one year.  They are few and far between, so I really appreciate his kindness.  I included a picture of the machine installed when I used it as my daily driver in the old house.  



CLICK HERE TO GO TO chachp's LINK on eBay

  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 5         View Full Size
Post# 1083056 , Reply# 16   7/30/2020 at 06:27 (975 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
GE Pots-Scrubber 3

combo52's profile picture

Hi Cameron, Your new GE DW looks pretty good, the last owners could have used bette detergent, but not bad.

 

It is normal for GEs detergent and RA dispensers to leak inside the door a little, the water just runs down and back into the tub.

 

John L.


Post# 1083352 , Reply# 17   7/31/2020 at 23:50 (974 days old) by Cam2s (Nebraska)        
Clean up continues

Got the sump area and the back side of the door liner cleaned. Pulled the color panels to see what awaits there...besides the fabulous color palette there was some more rust lurking on the inside of the door. Hope to do some water testing tomorrow.

  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 4         View Full Size
Post# 1083504 , Reply# 18   8/1/2020 at 23:47 (973 days old) by Cam2s (Nebraska)        
Good News bad news

Got it hooked up to power and hand poured some Water in the sump to see what happened. Motor ran and timer ran but it appears that there are several good leaks going on underneath. May try it again tomorrow after everything has sat overnight and had a chance to rehydrate but it looks like a motor and drain solenoid assembly are going to be in order. This thing really throws the water, I could feel the jets sweeping around with my hand on the outside of the tub. I also was able to answer my own question about the operation of the timer. It appears that you are suppose to select your cycle then push the timer to start. There arenít any marks noted for rinse hold or a short wash, but since this is a non rapid advance timer how does it get around to where it needs to be? Rinse hold runs the first two fills on the timer the shuts the power off to the motor. I didnít let it run itself through but Iím assuming that it would eventually wind its way back to start. Will be curious to find out if the China cycle can skip fills or have a short cycle compared to the others. Also interesting that they had two different timers that offer essentially the same functionality of a one touch start.

Post# 1083551 , Reply# 19   8/2/2020 at 06:56 (972 days old) by jamiel (Detroit, Michigan)        

jamiel's profile picture
China lessened fills; reducing water volume reduced force.

Post# 1084049 , Reply# 20   8/5/2020 at 21:20 (969 days old) by Cam2s (Nebraska)        

Pulled the pump off to see if I could savage any of the leaks until I can get a new pump. Anyways found the service and timing information tucked in a little envelope under the door. I guess to answer my son question from earlier the timer can skip a fill, but it only skips one prewash fill on normal and China. Fills themselves can be either 69 seconds or 47 seconds. All fills on China are short fills, Power Scrub is all full fills. Normal is a mixture of both.

  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 5         View Full Size
Post# 1084059 , Reply# 21   8/5/2020 at 23:43 (969 days old) by appnut (TX)        
Owners Manual

appnut's profile picture
Cameron, I was able to find the manual for your dishwasher. There were a couple of versions of the GSD1000 with slight variations. What threw a real monkey wrench in the whole thing is there was also a GSD1000 modern dishwasher within the last 10 years or so.

The manual I found is for a model that has Rinse & Hold on the timer dial and not a cycle button. GE did silly things with cycle names. The manual I've included the link for had cycle buttons for PotScrubber. Normal Wash, and Energy Saver. GE simply renamed the major cycle buttons. The equivalent to your dishwasher would be Power Scrub, Heavy Soil, and Normal Wash. The only difference between China Crystal & Normal or Energy Saver was the shorter fills yielding the "aerated" softer wash.

I had a GSD1200 from 1987 with rapid advance timer. When the original PotScrubber III series was announced, the GSD1200 was the top of the line.

My version's cycles were labeled Potscrubber, Normal Wash, Light Wash, Energy Saver, China Crystal, and Rinse & Hold.

Earlier version were labeled PowerScrub, Heavy Wash, Normal Wash, Light Soil, China Crystal, and Rinse & Hold. The cycle name labels were changed, but the cycle sequences were the same. So the shennanigans of just relabeling cycle names allowed meeting Energy Star regulations at the time.

I'll let you know if I ever find the user manual for your exact version of GSD1000.

Bob


CLICK HERE TO GO TO appnut's LINK


Post# 1084060 , Reply# 22   8/5/2020 at 23:54 (969 days old) by appnut (TX)        
Another AW.org thread with this same dishwasher

appnut's profile picture
Cameron, not sure you saw this thread, but I'm going to include it. Someone found your version May, 2015.

CLICK HERE TO GO TO appnut's LINK


Post# 1084077 , Reply# 23   8/6/2020 at 05:09 (968 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        
Reply 20

chetlaham's profile picture
Can't thank you enough for this! Fascinating to see how those cycle sequences evolved over the years.

Post# 1085570 , Reply# 24   8/18/2020 at 23:56 (956 days old) by Cam2s (Nebraska)        

So ordered a new pump and got it on. The switch out was pretty easy. Apparently GE has had seven different variations of this pump set up over the years.

  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 6         View Full Size
Post# 1085571 , Reply# 25   8/18/2020 at 23:58 (956 days old) by Cam2s (Nebraska)        

The problem is now it leaks worse than it did before! Most of seems to be coming from around the outlet area. The clamp is tightened down as much as it can be. Is that boot replaceable or is there a better way to seal it up? If you turn on the pump it really leaks.

  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 2         View Full Size
Post# 1085574 , Reply# 26   8/19/2020 at 00:45 (956 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        
Sump Boot

chetlaham's profile picture
Without a question change the sump boot. The newer version holds less water and as a result the dishwasher will substantially wash and rinse better.

If you mean the spray arm boot there are plenty on Ebay that will fit the older style wash arm. If you want you can get the newer version along with the newer style spray arm but its up to you.


Post# 1085582 , Reply# 27   8/19/2020 at 06:56 (955 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Leakin Pump Connections On A GE DW

combo52's profile picture

This happens sometimes, try loosening the clamp and reposition it and retighten, I usually always get these leaks to go away completely with a little patience.

 

If this does not work you can replace the outlet hose or use a good 3M type marine sealer and let it dry and it will never leak again but it will e hard to take apart again.

 

John L.


Post# 1085735 , Reply# 28   8/20/2020 at 01:07 (955 days old) by Cam2s (Nebraska)        

Thank you for the advice, I figured I would just have to keep messing with it but never hurts to ask. I Think I loosened the wash arm support during the cleaning process, so I took that apart along with the nut and boot and cleaned it and tightened it down. Also got a new clamp for the outlet. It did finally get sealed up. Was getting frustrated the other night walking away and looking at it with fresh eyes certainly helped too.

I noticed that the sump seemed excessively big, I did go ahead and order the new part. It looks much more efficient. Next step here will be to let it run through a cycle to clean it out and see if there are any other issues. Will hand pour water in for now. Once the sump arrives Iíll put it in and probably install it under the counter. I would like to look at using it out of the counter so I can still have my Bosch but that will be a project for later.

Looking forward to using this machine, with the new parts itís going to be an absolute powerhouse!


Post# 1085804 , Reply# 29   8/20/2020 at 17:32 (954 days old) by Cam2s (Nebraska)        

Sump came today, got it swapped out with relatively little fuss. Still leak free so thatís great. Itís currently chugging through all cycle, all seems well so far. The new motor is much quieter, all you can hear is the water sloshing around. Hopefully will be able to get it installed in the cabinet within the next few days.

  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 2         View Full Size
Post# 1085806 , Reply# 30   8/20/2020 at 17:40 (954 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        
New Sump

chetlaham's profile picture
Efficient by several orders. The new sump and pump holds roughly about 1/3 the water of the old sump and pump. Given the water charge and number of fills, this machine will wash and rinse circles around newer machines.

You are lucky, no matter what people say older GE machines are simply the best overall in every way possible.


Post# 1085813 , Reply# 31   8/20/2020 at 18:35 (954 days old) by Cam2s (Nebraska)        

Well when I first seen the sump I thought that it looked very odd. I was wondering if there was a way to block off the bottom so it would retain less water. Glad they updated the part.

In college I lived in a apartment that had one of the later 90s GE dishwasher. Very BOL, was out of the potscrubber series but this one was not badged as such it was so BOL. Had heavy, normal, and light on the dial, a heated dry rocker and that was it. Didnít have multi orbit, the passive filtration, the power shower, or an extended wash. Nonetheless if you loaded it right it cleaned well enough. That dishwasher lead to a lot of arguments with my roommates at the time. They where always upset that would go behind them and rearrange the dishwasher. At the time I was very conscious about utilities cost and only ran it when it was absolutely full. I always bobloaded it before I knew there was such a thing haha. Also I could never get them to understand the limits of a tower wash system.

Iím looking forward to getting this installed and pushing the performance of it. Iíve been very satisfied with my Bosch will this make me forget it?? Stay tuned!


Post# 1085829 , Reply# 32   8/20/2020 at 20:34 (954 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture
Honestly, you might forget about the Bosch. The dishwasher you had in college had less water per charge, one less fill on normal, a longer but not extended main wash, no fine filter, no multi orbit wash arm, no power shower and a weaker heater. All in all yours was just bare bones and the cycles built around energy savings.

This one on the other hand has everything that will make it clean without leaving particles and residue behind.

Please do before and after loads, I'm excited!


Post# 1086048 , Reply# 33   8/22/2020 at 17:03 (952 days old) by Cam2s (Nebraska)        

Had some free time today to work on swapping the Potscrubber out for the Bosch. It fought me a bit, the house it came out of have different size connections than the new ones in my Apartment. Had to get an entirely new drain house and put some adapters on to make the fill valve work but I got it. The freestanding connections box is a bit awkward to work with, whoever put the water inlet directly over the electrical connection probably didnít think that all the way through. I guess Iíll know itís leaking when the whole thing shorts out.

Anyways itís on its Maiden wash now. This load wasnít terribly challenging, some dried oatmeal in the lower rack will probably be the crustiest thing. I did put a blender cup in the corner of the rack to see how well the power tower does. After running it out of the cabinet I was a little concerned about noise level...while I do enjoy the drama and splashiness of a vintage dishwasher this apartment had a very open floor plan and sometime you just want to do dishes and not fuss with it. The Bosch excelled in this area, but with the insulation jacket on and the machine in the cabinet itís not too bad. Putting the kick plate on should quiet it down even further.

It seems to fill ok but just checking, in the last picture Is that an acceptable fill level for a full fill?


  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 6         View Full Size
Post# 1086061 , Reply# 34   8/22/2020 at 18:24 (952 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        
Fill Level

chetlaham's profile picture
Fill looks very acceptable from my vantage point. Certainly way more than the newer versions. Others with a better memory can double check me.

Post# 1086090 , Reply# 35   8/22/2020 at 20:53 (952 days old) by Bigalsf (Salt Lake City)        
Fill level

Yes, thatís the correct fill level for the first pre-rinse/pre-wash. A couple of subsequent fills in the cycle will be a little less. They are typically in between pre-washing and post-wash rinses.

It looks great installed. You will like the performance, and it holds a surprisingly large load! Enjoy!!


Post# 1086145 , Reply# 36   8/23/2020 at 10:52 (951 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
Good for you!

panthera's profile picture

We had a Potscrubber III fall into our laps two weeks ago.

Filthy, otherwise worked great.

Having done a lot of Potscrubbers through the years (no II, though), here's some stuff I've learned (a lot with the help of the folks around here) which might be useful:

1) That multi-orbital spray arm, even if it were clogged and broken in two and leaking out the sides is one million, billion, trillion times better than the whirligig piece of sh---- which came after.

There is NO comparison.

Now, they do clog and there is a tiny little slit on one side of one arm which tends to clog up, stopping the arm from rotating as fast as it needs to. There is also a thin gasket it's supposed to ride on which sometimes fails and makes screeching noises. If it's failed, just yank the super thin gasket. We have one in use at a friend's house which has cleaned perfectly without it now for 13 years. Better with, of course.

2) The filter cover and the sump pump cover and the cover over the flood-sensor all get filled up with the most horrid gunk over time. They were meant to be cleaned by real enzymes and real phosphate and real chlorine bleach and truly hot water. Too many people used the eco-friendly trash and too cool water and too short cycles these past 20 years. Better unscrew them and clean them thoroughly. Don't put your bare hands into the sump, there's always sharp things in there to attack you. It does need a good cleaning, though. 

3) The power-shower arm also gets clogged and, in contrast to what many say who didn't know these units in the old, high water days, it DOES contribute to cleaning, not just removing yibblets from the top rack. The last iterations of this machine are always in cavitation because they don't have enough water to really work well. 

4) The one-way valve under the big filter in the back gets clogged. Clean it.

5) Combo52 is, as always, right. You can use a sealant. I've had success (again, running 13 years now with nary a drip) using the blue teflon tape (20x thicker than the usual white junk). It's removable and hasn't crept in those 13 years or five years or on the one we did two weeks ago. Lots of folks don't know there are different PTFE tapes, so they throw them all in one bucket. Of course RTV silicone will work, too.

6) The heating element was de-rated to about 500 Watts from 900 but the design was still for the 900. This means you pretty much have to either feed this machine 125F water for reals or run it at the temp. boost/potscrubber settings for that phenomenal clean. 

Remember, it was this series that beat KA dishwashers in cleaning in the Consumer Research tests. They hated admitting it and were not happy to have to do so, but it's true - these dishwashers did the best cleaning job (especially in the corners of the top basket) of any dishwasher ever tested. Runs rings around the current two-drops of luke warm water trash.

 

You'll love this machine. Many folks will tell you that you must, simply must replace the shaded pole motor. That's one of those religious beliefs. I have NEVER, not ONCE had one fail and I've repaired/cleaned/restored over 30 of them in various Potscrubbers. Not once. I do oil them as GE recommends. Yes, of course the SIEMENS capacitor split-phase induction motors are quieter and run well. Sure, if you must, go for it. But, again, it's a religious objection to shaded-pole, not an actual cleaning ability driven argument.

 

If you do have to replace the impeller/seal/soft-food disposer, do the whole unit including the drain solenoid. By the time one is done, the other is done, too. The kits are OK if the unit is only 30 years old or so and otherwise in good condition.

 

So, that's my two cents, for what they're worth. Clean everything, including inside the door and that gasket and the two removable corner gaskets at the bottom. Use the highest heat settings, good detergent and rinse-aid and you'll be totally happy. 

 

 


Post# 1086228 , Reply# 37   8/23/2020 at 21:46 (951 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
You have the 900 Watt heater!

panthera's profile picture
Lucky you!

Post# 1086242 , Reply# 38   8/24/2020 at 00:26 (951 days old) by Cam2s (Nebraska)        

Thank you all for the advice and kind words. This was a fairly easy machine to work on, I could have got it done faster but Iíve been so busy with work lately. Iím looking forward to putting it through itís paces. I think thereís a certain charm to an old school TOL appliance, and this certainly looks sharp and lends of air of solidity to the kitchen. Might have to look out for SS panels, it would match the rest of the appliances and give a modern look. I did clean under the float valve, it actually wasnít too nasty. The one way valve did get pulled as I had to put a new drain hose on, there wasnít anything in it. I did not check the valve in the filtration system, it seems to drain just fine so Iíll leave it for now. I do want to address the rusting on the inner door but that will be a project for later. I can clean that valve then. I know the new motor is China made but I think it was the right move. Itís very quiet and doesnít surge as the water sloshes about. Now that itís in the cabinet I think the noise level is just right. Just loud enough to remind you itís hard at work but if you just want to watch TV the sound of the power tower sweeping around the door will fall right into the back ground. I personally find it southing to listen. The power shower was clean with no clogs, there was a small bit of plastic stuck in one of the holes of the lower wash arm but that was really the only foreign debris in it. The Teflon seal in the multi orbit system is probably about on its last leg, it looks very thin and the arm does groan a bit as itís going about. I did have a little issue with some water getting between the inner door and the color panels, also the detergent dispenser was washing out. I figured these problems maybe be related so I took the door apart and tightened and cleaned the dispensers. All the dishes are done up now will have to wait a few days for another load to test it out.

Post# 1086243 , Reply# 39   8/24/2020 at 00:36 (951 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
That seal is super duper thin

panthera's profile picture

Even brand new, it appears to have been in use for 90 years with five full washloads a day.

It might quiet down over time. It works without it, but I'd only pull it if you have no choice.

I'm so glad it's working for you. Water in the door can mean various things (I always install them with a slight tilt to the back) but it's quite possible the gasket has either worn out or come loose. The new ones cost too much to believe, there are two styles I know of, one thicker, the other thinner. You can usually find one of these machines at Habitat for $10 in good condition and grab various parts, including the gaskets. The newer ones didn't clean as well because their timers were set to starve them of water more than anything else.

You can also tighter the door latch a bit at the top. Or, one of the corner gaskets has come loose?


Post# 1086263 , Reply# 40   8/24/2020 at 06:45 (950 days old) by Jetcone (Schenectady-Home of Calrods,Monitor Tops,Toroid Transformers)        
Nice restore

jetcone's profile picture

Ive never used  a pot scrubber , does that are nutate as well as rotate?

 

 


Post# 1086271 , Reply# 41   8/24/2020 at 08:19 (950 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
Yes Jon, it nutates and rotates. It's what is why it's called multi-orbit wash arm.

Post# 1086273 , Reply# 42   8/24/2020 at 08:33 (950 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
Uncle Owl Face would be proud of you

panthera's profile picture

I'm not an engineer and high-school geometry was a very long time ago, but, yes, I believe the wash arm's patterns are nutations of an orbit. Euler's second law? Way too long ago.


Anyway, there were three wash arms from the post PotscrubberII era. This one, on the higher-end machines caused Consumer Reports to dethrone KA and announce (with tremendous reluctance, they were bought and sold to KA) that this dishwasher was better at cleaning. Much better.

 

A simple mechanism (looks like a cam to me, but I'm not an engineer) throws the arm out and then draws it back in during it's rotation. It isn't truly random, but it does make sure that even the further most corners of the top rack get thorough coverage.

 

A second variation also uses whirligigs on top of a regular arm  (Frigidaire does that on some, still, today) and they were absolutely the most horrible, terrible, clog-prone, stupid, worthless trash GE ever put on the market, doing great harm to my opinion of them.

 

The third variation, the one still in use on the last of the Potscrubbers (the ones you get from Home Depot for 250-350$), doesn't nutate, it just rotates and sprays water through big holes. Does a pretty good job, given enough water, to be honest.

 

One must never upset the KA folks (we've had several ourselves and yes, they're wonderful, the very best, truly the holy grail, blah, blah, blah), but this design really would have made the 18" dishwashers clean well in the corners and it runs rings around everything else when you're dealing with truly dirty dishes.


Post# 1086279 , Reply# 43   8/24/2020 at 10:04 (950 days old) by Cam2s (Nebraska)        

The multi orbit works kinda like a kitchen aid stand mixer, it rotated off center so it makes two circles as it goes around. Every picture below is one full turn, hopefully you can see how itís in a different place everyone. Also you can see the track and pinion gear that the eccentric orbit runs on.

  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 3         View Full Size
Post# 1086284 , Reply# 44   8/24/2020 at 10:38 (950 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
Yup,

panthera's profile picture
Nothing cleans remotely as well. Good illustration.

Post# 1086287 , Reply# 45   8/24/2020 at 10:53 (950 days old) by marky_mark (From Liverpool. Now living in Palm Springs and Dublin)        

marky_mark's profile picture

What a great job you're doing on this nice machine, Cameron!  I've been following this thread with interest as I have a GSD1250 that I intend to fix up myself.   This thread has been really interesting and useful!

 

One thing I don't get is the power of the heater.  When I read reply #13 (photo #14) a few weeks ago, I was surprised to see the heater listed as 115V 3A.  That would make it just 345 W.  I remember thinking that this would have to be the lowest-power heater I have ever seen in a dishwasher.  But in reply #37 panthera mentions that you have the 900 W heater.  So how can we tell?  Does this mean the heater has been replaced at some point, or the label isn't original to this machine?  I did think the heater was pretty big -- I don't think mine has a heater that big.

 

Great thread of an an excellent restoration. 

Mark


Post# 1087055 , Reply# 46   8/29/2020 at 02:10 (946 days old) by Cam2s (Nebraska)        

I decided to do a little experiment to see how much the Calrod can raise the temperature of the wash water. The incoming hot water at the tap was measured at 115 degrees. I used the power scrub cycle with the extended main wash. The sequence leading up the main wash is pre wash, pre rinse, pre rinse, main wash. The temperature at the beginning of the main wash was measured at 109 degrees, the temperature at the end of the main wash was measured at 120 degrees. The main wash is not quite 30 minutes long.

It does call for 140 water, I was hoping to see the water get a little warmer by the end of the wash but it is what it is. I usually used the power scrub cycle in my Bosch which provided a 165 Degree wash. Iím learning to use the super racks, the upper rack is very spacious.


  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 2         View Full Size
Post# 1087070 , Reply# 47   8/29/2020 at 06:23 (945 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        
Temp

chetlaham's profile picture
The GE manuals that I've read from the 80s mention that every time the door is opened the water temperature is lowered.

Post# 1087077 , Reply# 48   8/29/2020 at 07:46 (945 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
Cameron, was this temperature test using Normal Wash or Power Scrub that had the main wash at only 30 minutes?

Post# 1087120 , Reply# 49   8/29/2020 at 13:32 (945 days old) by Cam2s (Nebraska)        

I used the power scrub cycle, the main wash segment was what was measured.

Post# 1087131 , Reply# 50   8/29/2020 at 14:13 (945 days old) by marky_mark (From Liverpool. Now living in Palm Springs and Dublin)        

marky_mark's profile picture

That's interesting.  I don't know for how much of that main wash cycle it will have been heating the water, but that small temperature rise does seem to me to be consistent with a 3-Amp heater if it was heating for almost 30 minutes.  

 

 


Post# 1087139 , Reply# 51   8/29/2020 at 14:50 (945 days old) by Cam2s (Nebraska)        

Well there is a closeup of the timing diagram...Iím not the best at reading one of these but it looks like the heater is on for most of the main wash.

  View Full Size
Post# 1087165 , Reply# 52   8/29/2020 at 17:41 (945 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture
Without the extender I'm counting a 9 minute main wash. Assuming the extender prolongs the wash time by a factor of 3 that would be 27 minutes of main wash. 5 1/2 minute final rinse, with the extender about 16 1/2 minutes.


Considering your fills are over 2 gallons (more water to heat) I'd raise the temp on your water heater.



Post# 1087172 , Reply# 53   8/29/2020 at 18:00 (945 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Pots-Scrubber 3 DW

combo52's profile picture

The heating element in these DWs is only 400-500 watts, GE was very cautious because the plastic tub was still a fairly new concept in DWs

 

John L.


Post# 1087225 , Reply# 54   8/30/2020 at 00:16 (945 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
Several potscrubber heating elements I have tested

panthera's profile picture
Came in pretty close to 500 watts. I remember reading in an appliance for him sometime in the late 1980s that general electric had decided to de-rate the elements down to prevent damage to the plastic liner.
Given that this is a purely resistive load I think ohm's law will work quite well enough for it even though it is an AC measurement.
I'm getting pretty consistently 29.x-31.x Ohm's and at our 124VAC (that's pretty steady) we're around 500W.



Post# 1087268 , Reply# 55   8/30/2020 at 08:54 (944 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
GE Pots-Scrubber 3

combo52's profile picture

Hi Mark, Reply #45, I had not noticed that 3 Amp draw on the name tag, We have almost the identical DW in our wall of DWs at the museum and ours lists the heater draw at 6 Amps, total draw at 9 Amps with the motor Amps being listed at 5 Amps, it does not add up,  and on this DW the heater is listed at 3  Amps and the motor at 5 Amps yet again GE says this adds up to 7 Amps even though for nearly 1/2 the cycle both the motor and heater are both running together.

 

I think WE need to do some real testing.

 

Someone said something about inlet valves and float switches failing on US DWs.

 

Inlet valves will wear out-fail on almost all DWs if they last long enough otherwise between 5 and 20 + years.

 

Float Switches will NEVER fail in over 99% of DWs even if the DW lasts more than 30+ years, a FS is a safety overfill device on US DWs and even though it can cycle thousands of times without wear the great majority of DWs will never have the FS cycle even once in the operating life of the machine.

 

The only thing I have ever seen make a FS fail is if water leaks on it or into it long enough for it to corrode and fail.

 

John L.


Post# 1087303 , Reply# 56   8/30/2020 at 13:38 (944 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture
Right, though Maytag cycled their float switches.

Post# 1087308 , Reply# 57   8/30/2020 at 15:38 (944 days old) by Cam2s (Nebraska)        
More testing...

Dropped down to Menards and purchased a Kill a Watt meter. Dropped the timer into the dry cycle with heated dry engaged and looked at the measurements...3.42 amps and 409 watts. Will have to take measurements next time I run it through a full cycle. In my opinion, since this was designed for 140 degree water the heater is more to maintain the temperature and not raise it.

  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 4         View Full Size
Post# 1087312 , Reply# 58   8/30/2020 at 16:17 (944 days old) by marky_mark (From Liverpool. Now living in Palm Springs and Dublin)        
Heater Power

marky_mark's profile picture

Well that certainly clears that one up, Cameron!  Very useful gadget indeed.  

Once the dry cycle starts, I imagine the heater's power draw will begin to drop as it heats up and its resistance increases.  Whereas when it's heating the water it should continue to keep drawing the higher amount.


Post# 1087331 , Reply# 59   8/30/2020 at 20:48 (944 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture
@marky_Mark: spot on! That would be my theory as well.


I'd take the current draw during or right after the main wash fill has ended to take the motor into account, then the reading several minutes into the main-wash to get both of the motor and heater running together. Subtract the motor from that number and you'll get the heater wattage. Watts setting (not VA) can also get the job done.


Post# 1087334 , Reply# 60   8/30/2020 at 22:31 (944 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
Darlings, we're overthinking this

panthera's profile picture
Run the damn thing on main wash 10 minutes. Unplug or trip circuit breaker.
Measure resistance at heating element. Plug into Ohm's law calculator, assume 120 volts.
Done.
It's a purely resistive load for goodness sake, no power factor to correct for, VA for an AC resistive load is Watts.
Goodness!


Post# 1087337 , Reply# 61   8/30/2020 at 23:23 (944 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture
Resistance varies with temperature. A heating element being cooled by water will have a lower resistance than one in open air.

Post# 1087342 , Reply# 62   8/31/2020 at 00:06 (944 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
Yes, resistance varies by temperature.

panthera's profile picture

This is why I said to run the dratted thing for ten minutes, turn off the power (circuit breaker/ pull plug) and then measure the resistance at the heating element.

Realistically, it will be about as high as it's going to go, producing the lowest Watt rating.

I do think we sometimes get carried away by details which are of no consequence whatsoever.

I also think it's possible that the thermal delay on this dishwasher may not be working or only working intermittently.

Possible, not necessarily so.

 


Post# 1087354 , Reply# 63   8/31/2020 at 06:14 (943 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
Float Switches, Flooding, Failed Timers

panthera's profile picture

Failed float switches are, indeed rare. Failed timers, however, even this improved version, are not. Especially not on an appliance coming up on 40 years old. Considering that that float switch is the only thing between a flooded house and a timer stuck on fill, I would err on the side of replace the silly little thing with the fill valve.


Post# 1087357 , Reply# 64   8/31/2020 at 07:41 (943 days old) by eronie (Flushing Michigan)        

A clamp on watt meter will give an instant answer!

  View Full Size
Post# 1087358 , Reply# 65   8/31/2020 at 07:46 (943 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
GE Pots-Scrubber 3

combo52's profile picture

Resistance does vary temperature a tiny bit but I do not believe these DWs had the newer variable resistance heating elements like WP has been using for the past decade or so where they go from 400-800 watts depending whether being wet or dry [ WP has a very high failure rate with these new heating elements ] Heating elements almost never failed in DWs now it is a really common repair.

 

I don't believe that these GE DWs had any thermal hold, it was pretty much done on a time bassists, this has always been one of the things I do not like about GE DWs they either don't add the heat needed or if someone has really hot water they add heat anyway and destroy the dishes and DW.

 

I would never replace the original timer or float switch on an older DW if it showed no sign of failure, replacement parts like FSs and timers are no longer being made for these DWs and the quality of replacement parts are not as good as the original parts that were used to build the DW.

 

John L.


Post# 1087462 , Reply# 66   9/1/2020 at 00:39 (943 days old) by Cam2s (Nebraska)        
Amperage draw

Running a full cycle now...power scrub selected again. On initial start up with motor it drew 1.8 amps, kicked up to 1.9 amps when the fill solonoid energized, pushed to about 2 amps as the motor picked up load and then settled at about 1.9 amps at full load with the fill solenoid off. The drain cycle showed about 2.5 amps. Heater did not not turn until the main wash segment, itís settled in on about 5.25 amps.

The next load of dishes Iím going to get the reverse rack portable out and test it. The GE shaded pole motor has been accused of being inefficient but draws less than what the RR is rated and the new psc motor draws way less.

Iím having far to much fun here being geeky!


  View Full Size
Post# 1087581 , Reply# 67   9/1/2020 at 22:13 (942 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains)        
shaded pole motor

panthera's profile picture

This motor is a single phase, induction motor.

It's advantage is, of course, that, as long as the bearings last, the motor will run forever with no other service ever required.

The shaded pole runs at roughly 20% efficiency (dear anal retentives, we all know you're just itching to put in 19.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000009%. Restrain yourselves, do, please.)

PSC motors run at 45% efficiency (dear anal retentives, give it a rest. It's close enough.)

 

So, no, efficiency is not a shaded pole motor's strength. On the other hand, unlimited life span, total reliability and super-simple, super-cheap manufacture are variables which GE probably valued highly.

 

Personally, I like to think the extra heat contributes to the cleaning. That is, after all what the other 80% of the power going into the motor which is not operative force comes to be.

 



Forum Index:       Other Forums:                      



Comes to the Rescue!

The Discuss-o-Mat has stopped, buzzer is sounding!!!
If you would like to reply to this thread please log-in...

Discuss-O-MAT Log-In



New Members
Click Here To Sign Up.



                     


automaticwasher.org home
Discuss-o-Mat Forums
Vintage Brochures, Service and Owners Manuals
Fun Vintage Washer Ephemera
See It Wash!
Video Downloads
Audio Downloads
Picture of the Day
Patent of the Day
Photos of our Collections
The Old Aberdeen Farm
Vintage Service Manuals
Vintage washer/dryer/dishwasher to sell?
Technical/service questions?
Looking for Parts?
Website related questions?
Digital Millennium Copyright Act Policy
Our Privacy Policy