Thread Number: 84046  /  Tag: Modern Dishwashers
Kitchen aid VS Bosch video
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Post# 1083910   8/4/2020 at 21:30 (1,332 days old) by Tomdawg (Des moines)        






I was entertained by the music and video itself!

Anyone want to buy a kitchen aid now? Or what are your thoughts?





Post# 1083912 , Reply# 1   8/4/2020 at 21:39 (1,332 days old) by appnut (TX)        
Anyone want to buy a kitchen aid now?

appnut's profile picture
Tom, don't you mean, Anyone want to buy a Bosch now?

I'd already figured this out, the KitchenAid will hold a lot more now than a Bosch.


Post# 1083931 , Reply# 2   8/5/2020 at 02:15 (1,331 days old) by MattL (Flushing, MI)        

Wow, the return of spin tubes...

 

My older 3 rack KA hold a great deal of dishes even with the shallow 3rd rack.  I've ben know to put 5 lunch dishes up top when I have a full load.


Post# 1083961 , Reply# 3   8/5/2020 at 07:23 (1,331 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.)        

Comparing the paused video at the seven seconds mark (the empty machines, open doors), the Kitchenaid actually looks as though it has a lower-set tub, giving more internal space. The difference seems to be more than an inch.

I've never been convinced by the third-level tray/cutlery drawer - until now. The Kitchenaid version looks to be a much more sensible, and actually usable design than most of the others.


Post# 1083962 , Reply# 4   8/5/2020 at 07:24 (1,331 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Good Ad

combo52's profile picture

This has been my biggest gripe about European sized DWs all along, they are generally smaller inside, up to 2" less front to back space, usually 1" less in side to side space and usually a inch or so less height inside.

 

Sometimes the smaller size of a Bosch DW has been helpful when we run into kitchens with built-up floors or where a drain line runs behind the DW or the cabinets were installed too close together.

 

But if you don't have a space problem why give up the extra capacity ?

 

I wish DWs were even bigger, I would make the space for one in my kitchen.

 

John L. 


Post# 1083967 , Reply# 5   8/5/2020 at 09:05 (1,331 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
Apparently the XXL Bosch models aren't sold in the USA. Those are 2 inches higher than the regular models. They easily fit under most Western European countertops, but perhaps not under American ones.

Post# 1083968 , Reply# 6   8/5/2020 at 09:08 (1,331 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR)        
Another opinion,

chachp's profile picture

 

I'll never argue that size matters........now having said that, my pet peeve is when a dishwasher is not flush with the cabinets such that you can see part of the sides of the dishwasher.  I want it to at least be flush with the cabinet doors but I prefer flush with the cabinet frame.  I don't know why that bugs me so much but it does.  I like the European machines because they seem flush better with the cabinets unless your cabinets are a little deeper.  Is that enough to make me choose one machine over the other?  Umm, yeah for me it is.  It's obvious the KA is a little bigger and that probably matters for a family that generates a lot of dishes.  For the two of us it's not that big a deal and it gives me a reason to load up the KDS-17A (my backup) machine and take it for a whirl.

 

Would I replace the BOSCH with a KA if it died?  Maybe, I'd have to measure.  LOL.


Post# 1084007 , Reply# 7   8/5/2020 at 15:53 (1,331 days old) by stevet (West Melbourne, FL)        
Coincidence?

I was in Home Depot yesterday and happened upon that very Kitchenaid and thought the same thing about the lower tub bottom. Definitely more room in the top rack. Water supply tubes are pretty small to the upper racks but it must be adequate.
With the lowered bottom, the user has to bend even lower than you have to with the current tall tub models.

If the occasion arose, I might go for one of those machines, but I would wait to see what they offer the same features in the Maytags.


Post# 1084009 , Reply# 8   8/5/2020 at 16:10 (1,331 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
Steve, the KA has n extra water tube coverage system for the 3rd rack the Maytag doesn't have.

Post# 1084025 , Reply# 9   8/5/2020 at 17:59 (1,331 days old) by littlegreeny (Milwaukee, WI)        
This KA is impressive BUT

littlegreeny's profile picture
I wonder how the build quality compares to the Bosch and how reliable their new self cleaning wash system is? Time will tell.

I do really like the third rack. It's pretty innovative and seems to hold a lot.


Post# 1084028 , Reply# 10   8/5/2020 at 18:10 (1,331 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
David, I've had few complaints with regards to my dishwasher and it containing the first design of the self-clean filter system. I'm optimistic this latest version fixes some design issues and improves on it.

Post# 1084033 , Reply# 11   8/5/2020 at 18:41 (1,331 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
whirlpool version

Kitchenaid has come out with their new microclean filtration system and so did Maytag. When will whirlpool come out with their version?

Post# 1084034 , Reply# 12   8/5/2020 at 18:47 (1,331 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

By the end of the commercial I was almost having an orgasm and grabbing a mallet to destroy my Ken-less DW.

Post# 1084035 , Reply# 13   8/5/2020 at 18:53 (1,331 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Bosch DWs And Build-Quality

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Bosch DWs are much cheaper in quality than KA, the plastic control panels seem to lose the graphics, the wheels on the lower racks are always popping off and breaking, the models with plastic buttons are often broken and when you disassemble the control panel to replace the buttons you pray that too many of the tabs don't break so you can maybe get it back together.

 

They are very much like a Volkswagen when it comes to plastic parts.

 

I will say that Miele DWs are better built and use better materials than Bosch and probably a little more reliable if you can afford the parts and service costs.

 

John L.


Post# 1084055 , Reply# 14   8/5/2020 at 22:18 (1,331 days old) by lakewebsterkid (Dayton, Ohio)        
Not sold

Fully using the third rack of the Bosch would have allowed for the removal of the cutlery basket in the first rack. Also, the loading of the second rack certainly limited it as well. All of that would have fit if they didn't try to load the same items at the same time. Albeit, still very impressive how much the KA holds. I do wish the XXL machines were sold here. I am still interested to see how the newer KA machines wash though!

Post# 1084061 , Reply# 15   8/5/2020 at 23:55 (1,331 days old) by littlegreeny (Milwaukee, WI)        

littlegreeny's profile picture
Bob, thanks for offering your opinion. The new KAs look very promising. I hope they did indeed improve upon the first generation self-clean filter system.

John, I'm not convinced KA's build quality is superior to Bosch. The new KA has a flimsy drip tray that only covers a small part of the underside whereas the Bosch has a container covering the entire bottom. It appears Bosch uses a higher quality stainless steel than WP/KA. And doesn't WP use foreign third party parts for the most important components of the dishwasher, including the wash and drain pumps? Bosch uses their own pumps and motors, correct?

I have several family members who own Bosch 500 and 800 series DWs and the build quality is excellent. They love their DWs and have never had any issues with them.


Post# 1084065 , Reply# 16   8/6/2020 at 00:26 (1,331 days old) by petek (Ontari ari ari O )        

petek's profile picture
I already proclaimed awhile back that never again will any WP product darken our doors again. I don't need a dishwasher than can hold more untensils, that won't fully clean them, or break down half way through, let alone flood my basement. Burned twice, thrice shy. It's Bosch all the way here at the club.



Post# 1084070 , Reply# 17   8/6/2020 at 03:19 (1,330 days old) by Logixx (Germany)        
Appliance height

logixx's profile picture
The spec sheet for the US Bosch dishwashers state that they are as tall as our European "XXL" versions (86 cm). I think you'd have to get an ADA compliant dishwasher to have what we call "normal height".

What has been bothering me about these Whirlpool-made dishwashers is the lowering of the wash temp to just 105° (Kenmore-branded Whirlpools excluded). That's like appropriate for glassware but not dishes, in my opinion. You can get reasonable temps when selecting Sani Wash, but that adds an extra hour to the cycle. High Temp is the bare minimum.

Of course, I can't be sure because... where are the manuals, Whirlpool? Couldn't find them neither on KitchenAid's nor Maytag's website. Just silly quick start guides, telling you how Normal is for normally soiled dishes.

Next, I want to see the KitchenAid compared to one of these 17 place setting Askos.


Post# 1084078 , Reply# 18   8/6/2020 at 05:14 (1,330 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.)        

"Bosch uses their own pumps and motors, correct?"


Not entirely. A few months ago online, I came across a Bosch dishwasher diverter valve for the alternating spray arms. The stepper motor was made of solid Chinesium.

The dispenser in my elderly Bosch is made by Elbi. Control panel plastics on my mum's old Bosch washing machine were imprinted on the reverse with 'PRETTL'

Sometimes it just is cheaper to get a third party to make things. It's a bit daft to keep re-inventing the wheel, especially if decent components already exist out there.


Post# 1084090 , Reply# 19   8/6/2020 at 07:26 (1,330 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

But Bosch DW use their own pumps.

They've gone the full way of efficency through mass and use the same motor on ANY current Bosch DW in every country I checked.


Post# 1084092 , Reply# 20   8/6/2020 at 07:38 (1,330 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
On that video though

Yeah that thing is a beast for tall items - and honestly I would prefer that heavily.



But I bet you that you could just as well turn the comparison around if you would choose a different set of dishes tailored for the Bosch.

Make the load more plate heavy, add more glases that are not wine glases, add more utensils and more of those small cereal bowls.
Remove some larger items.

Oh and fucking load the Bosch correctly. Most of the utensils loaded in the Bosches top rack could have been loaded on and under the supports for the wine glases, thus allowing that bowl to move up top.
That would have made the collander fit up top probably.


And honestly, all the items left behind just show all they are boasting is height.
All are tall items.




While I like height for lading, it really isn't everything.


Post# 1084104 , Reply# 21   8/6/2020 at 10:04 (1,330 days old) by Iheartmaytag (Wichita, Kansas)        
Not debating only stating

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They shouldn't wash the Vita-mix blender bowl in the dishwasher anyway. It will damage the bearings over time. Just put a couple drops of dish detergent and water in the bowl and run the blender a few seconds, it will clean itself.

Though I think Whirlpools factory service A&E sucks, and would never allow them in my house again. I do have a Kitchenaid dishwasher that I am extremely fond of.


Post# 1084117 , Reply# 22   8/6/2020 at 12:36 (1,330 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California)        

sudsmaster's profile picture
When I bought this place in '97 it had an old, leaky (rusted out) GE dishwasher in Harvest Gold. Replaced that with a Frigidaire Gallery that turned out to be a poorly made nightmare. Mostly because the debris screen at the bottom would warp and fail to screen out debris, which would eventually clog the spray arms. Hated that thing. But since I got it from Costco, when it finally failed, was able to return it for a refund (!).

After that, got a Bosch dishwasher which I've had for the past 15 years or so. Haven't looked back. It is slightly smaller inside than the others, but that is not a deal breaker for me. What I really like is the high final temp and the flash drying. I did have to replace the drain pump a few years ago, but since then it's been fairly reliable, although sometimes it doesn't seem to drain completely. I think part of the problem is that I have it hooked up to an air gap at the back of the sink. I surmise it doesn't really need that air gap, since the drain hose loops up to the top of the dishwasher in the back, which should prevent siphoning of sink/disposer dirty water back into the DW. I guess one day I'll try bypassing the air gap and see how that works. As it is, whenever I start the DW I'll wait and listen for the sound of the initial drain sucking air. If it seems to be draining too long, I'll hit a button combo to force a full drain, which usually works.

Meanwhile I have a couple three vintage KA/Hobart dishwashers in the collection, one of which could easily fit in where the Bosch is in the main kitchen. Some day. I remember when I purchased the KA Superba under-counter unit used off Craigslist, the husband of the couple I bought it from was clearly reluctant to part with it, but had to go along with his wife's kitchen remodeling agenda. LOL. I'm sure it's noisier, and more water/energy consuming than the Bosch, but it might be a better unit overall.


Post# 1084125 , Reply# 23   8/6/2020 at 13:23 (1,330 days old) by labboy (SD, CA)        
Water Softener?

labboy's profile picture
We have a Bosch 800 with a third rack and water softener we really love. The Bosch is built much better than our former WP built KA tall tub. With no whole house water softener I wouldn't consider this KA unless it had a built in softener like our Bosch. Even then it would be a maybe because of how we like the quality of our Bosch.

I can't tell if these new model KAs have a softener. Anyone know?

Bob



Post# 1084128 , Reply# 24   8/6/2020 at 13:39 (1,330 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR)        
Vitamix

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Our Vitamix blender has been in daily use for close to ten years.  I run the blender through the dishwasher every couple of weeks with no issue.  We wash it using the soap method every day but over time it builds up what looks like a haze on the inside of the jar.   I don't know if its something from the contents we use to make our smoothies every day but its annoying.  Scrubbing it does not remove the haze and it feels rough like sand or something on there.  A wash through the dishwasher and its sparkling clean.  So far so good with this jar.  It has a hole in the bottom that I suspect is there for the water to run off when it's upside down.

 

I've read both pros and cons on putting them in.   I figure I'll get a new jar if this one fails but after close to ten years it's had a good run.


Post# 1084140 , Reply# 25   8/6/2020 at 16:39 (1,330 days old) by Jerrod_Six (Eastern Pennsylvania, USA)        

I don't feel strongly about this since I have a Miele, but I wonder if both of these models are in the same category? Is one of them an entry/mid-level and the other TOL? Could the bosch adjust the height of the baskets to accommodate taller items--no one knows.



Post# 1084247 , Reply# 26   8/7/2020 at 14:46 (1,329 days old) by littlegreeny (Milwaukee, WI)        

This post has been removed by the member who posted it.




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