The answer to which one you should go after will depend on several things, such as

If you want the older look that might have been in the kitchen with your range.

Do you want a DW that actually does a great job washing dishes, how much will you actually use this DW ?

How much money and time do you want to spend, the older 12-14s are much harder to get and keep working.

Parts for KA DWs KD15 and later are much more common.

You are also better off finding [ or buying ] an almost unused DW, restoring a tired KA DW is not usually worth it when you consider how many good ones are out there.

John L.

It's in an abandoned ski resort in New York, on an urban explorer channel.

Thats a great 1966 40" GE P7 range and KDS-15 DW someone should drive up there and grab.

John L.

It's quite true that parts for KDS15 and later are easier to get. We restored a portable 15 with no parts problems, at all.

However - and I know this will upset some members of the KA Ladies Auxiliary, but, what the hey:

KA dishwashers aren't the easiest machines to set up to be among the best cleaners on earth.

They demand precise placement.

They require pre-rinsing.

They do not like high-foaming modern detergents.

They don't like many dry modern rinse-aides.*

They have major problems with dishware and pots and pans and glasses which do not fit their accepted size and shape range.

Based on the seven we have restored, the Hobart KA are beautiful pieces of machinery and, despite their many, many, many limitations, well worth having as daily drivers. The Whirlpool stuff is trash. Don't waste your time on it.

Personally, if I were tackling this, I'd go up from the 15 as the top rack placement problems (not issues, PROBLEMS) are too severe. Basically, I have used it for the last 14 years exclusively for it's bottom rack force de frappe approach to cleaning really dirty pots and pans.

*Now, remember, ladies, before screaming, we have had several and use one for every party overflow, so throwing in the standard 'nobody else has ever experienced this, not ever, all KA are perfect, absolutely without flaw' is not going to help Matt get the best results from his KA.

If you want a vintage dishwasher that actually cleans without pre-rinsing, pre-washing and major attention to how you load it.

There is a gigantic split in the vintage dishwasher community between the KA people and the rest of us, so you have to take my feelings with a grain of salt if KA is what you really want. I refuse to pre-rinse, pre-scrape only bones and olive pits and demand perfection, regardless of how I load the machine.

That makes KA a no-go for me. But, a pristine KA15 might just be worth the minor annoyances to you, especially if you like a dishwasher which will basically put an end to exchanging family colds.

I've had both the Potscrubber and multiple KA machines 15-21.  I happen to prefer the KA machines.  I never found the filtration to be bad at all.  Here are a few pictures of my 15 machine before and after the load.  This load has the potential to have a lot of leftover nibbles given the food soil.  I think this was Risotto but I can't remember.  If you go with a 17 series you'll have the upper rinse as well.  When you get to the 18 series you'll get the additional wash arm but it starts to look a little more modern than you may want for your kitchen which I think is true with the 17 as well. There is a link to the 15 Series running.  I am trying to add pictures of my Potsrubber loaded but for some reason they won't upload.  If I can work it out I'll add those too.

In my opinion, the bottom line is if you want a vintage machine you're gonna have to pay a little more attention to loading techniques, and likely make repairs.  The Potscrubber machine gives you a little more flexibility in loading because it has a separate wash system under the upper rack.  The KA washarm will take the paint off of a bumper.  I have had items in the upper rack flip over with a fully loaded lower rack.  The last pictures is the 17 series with the upper rinse.

As far as parts availability you'll need to hunt eBay and rely on the generosity of members here to keep either one of them going.  I've worked on both of them and they are both pretty easy to work on.  Neither are going to be terribly expensive to buy compared to newer machines.  

This is what I would do if your budget allows.  Hunt for both.  If you find a nice machine in both models you can switch them around occasionally.  A dishwasher install is fairly easy.  If I were making the decision I'd wonder which one will go better with your decor.  You're gonna have gotchas either way you go.  How important is the look?  How tolerant are you to the quirks of an older machine?

If it is, and it was me I would grab it.  Those buttons show no use and all and given the paper is still on the door I'd say it didn't get much use.  That is if you want a Kitchen Aid but that's just me.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-kitchen...

Yes I would vote for this DW since you want something fairly vintage, If you wanted to move into the 80s then I would get a WP built power clean style DW, well used KDS-18-KD 23 DWs just have too many problems not the least of which is so-so cleaning and rinsing.

This KD-15 series DW was top rated for cleaning in CRs in 1966, it is a great performer if loaded properly and does boost water temperature slightly.

I you insulate the tank somewhat and use modern detergents you can get great results with incoming water temperatures in the 120-130F range.

John L.

Well whichever one you settle on, the best of luck.  I wouldn't mind a peek at the stove you are working on if you want to share.

We have more parts than we will ever use for KD15 and later KA DWs including a good supply of those rubber boots for the upper wash arm feed for KDS-18 DWs.

Parts for these machines are out there, during the beginning of the pandemic we finally got a chance to sort a lot of the parts we have.

I anyone needs a part get in touch, I will try and find what you need, I will not entertain people that say they want 2 or 3 of a certain part because they want to stach extras thus keeping others from getting a part they need.

John L.

The local Habitat Restore does that to collectors all the time, too. It sucks. And, yes, we've seen this situation around here before. More experienced collectors will sometimes post an urgent request that nobody 'look' for the appliance they've found online, please.

The potential good news - most of the people who jack up prices on 'our' collectibles end up selling them later for much less. So, keep an eye out.

As to pre-rinsing, that's just one of those things where everybody is different. I refuse, flat out refuse and that's that. My brother and my father WASH and SCRUB the dishes before they go into the dishwasher and that was one of the tattle-tail fights my brother and I had throughout the 1960's and early 1970's...Panthera isn't scrubbing everything before it goes into the dishwasher! 

I could not care less what other people do, but refuse, absolutely refuse to be one of those aging queens who thinks there are bonus points for unnecessary work.

KA dishwashers of that era do need a reasonable pre-scrape. Not hysterical, just reasonable. Potscrubbers, between their outstanding filters and soft-food 'grinders' (I know, darlings, I know) actually only needed bones and olive pits removed. They cleaned better than the KA and that's been something very, very disconcerting to many, even here. Here's why:

KA dishwashers are works of art. They're super well made, very pretty, run well and sound great when they're running. Sort of like a DeSoto or a Cadillac, back when they actually weren't gussied up Chevys.

GE Potscrubbers were made of 'plastic'. They used shaded pole motors (the horror of it all). They looked as if they'd been designed by the same committee who made the elephant and then the final design was handed over to a band of dyspeptic bean-counters. Who then turned them over to a bunch of hipies on bad acid trips who threw in faux wood and chrome-plated plastic. They sounded like someone left a few screws in the sump (which explained the mysterious rattles) and, worst of all, normal earners could afford them.

Rather like my grandfather who could have afforded a Cadillac limousine and driver for each day of the week but drove a Buick because nobody else in the neighbourhood drove one and he didn't want to offend the neighbours. 

Is a good choice and this one looks good so it should give few problems for at least a number of years.

If you are going to go this new you would get much better performance out of a WP-KM power-clean or ultra-wash DW from 1985-1998, but this ISE will do a decent job if you work with it. Do you have soft water ?

John L.

Good Point Matthew, I pulled one of my 1987 WP DU8000XR DWs out around 2001 and after trying several newer DWs a KA TT, A GE TT, A GE standard tub, and a new WP TT, all TOL, I put in a KDSS-20 and it was so cool looking I kept it nearly 10 years but finally got another DU8000XR and moved the KDSS-20 to the museum where it can live out. its life.

The KA I had was the equivalent to a KDS-18 in performance, it had several good features but when I had the WP just 15 feet away the KA just never measured up to the WPs performance. 

The KAs problems were poor cleaning in the top rack, you had to sort out the dirty dishes when unloading usually about 1 in 10 items rejected,  It often smelled bad because of food left in the sump and filter, it did not dry nearly as well as the WP [ both DWs always used on Air-Dry to preserve the racks and save energy ], and it did not get really dirty pots and pans, baking dishes nearly as clean. And most of all the silverware basket was no where as convenient to use as the WPs in-door SWB.

All in All the KA was a very good DW and if I had not had one 15 feet away that worked so much better I may have been more of a fan of it.

In this business I always really valued the opinions of our few customers that had two different DWs or washing machines hooked up SXS where you can really see the advantages and disadvantages of each.

John L.

You clearly have a hankering for that classic Hobart design and engineering and quality.

As to the idiosyncrasies - every dishwasher has it's merry little ways. You either figure out a way around them (wash the damn filters on these KAs, don't let them get bogged down). Or not.

Personally, I do like our KA15 and am willing to put up with the KA limitations for the hard work and beauty she has. But, she's not our daily driver. If you're OK with the stuff John mentioned above (John is one of the two smartest collectors here) then go for it!

But do clean the damn filter.

That KDS-15 looks good, the leak under the door is probably not hard to correct. This KDS-15 is a later build version that the one you missed.

The WP may be in ok shape can't really tell from the pictures, The GE is one of the good GEs, but like the KA there is really no upper wash arm so you must load carefully for best results.

John L.

Sounds like a good plan, The nice thing about the KDS-58 is being a HEAVY portable it probably was not used much.

Hi Steve, while the KD 21 & 22s do have a very good grinder the food can't  get to it, when you load these DWs with dishes covered with chunks of food like we do with the WP PC DWs there will be a mess of food chunks to fish out of the sump, been the and done it, they do work a little better at disposing of food if you throw away the removable trap.

John L.

It behooves all of us to pick up any KA or Postscrubber III we come across, if only for parts - to use ourselves or to share with others.

I've been helped here through the decades by so many members, I can't name they all - the generousity is enormous and made possible by our tendencies to 'hoard' vintage machines.

We are currently down to two fully working, daily driver Potscrubber IIIs and a TOL in storage in perfect working condition. Two Maytags in storage, of course as they are magnificent. My GE 2800 went to one of our members who needed a new board and wash arm sensor (and mine was the third revision, sigh. GE certainly could have done better). The Hotpoints and lower GEs are all gone. For the moment.....

Oh, and in case nobody has mentioned it to you in the last five seconds - be sure to clean the filter!

Good for you!

All porcelain tubs of that era have rust. 

There are some excellent threads on dealing with it from Laundress and several others around here.

Hotpoint dishwashers had exactly the same problems as KA and the solutions are exactly the same.

Have fun! You're going to like these projects.

I always hook my vintage appliances up to the power through a GFCI when I'm testing them or working on them.

It's incredible how often there are minor flaws which could lead to me getting hurt or delicate electronics (and the electronics in vintage appliances were delicate when new, never mind today) blowing up.

I had a KDS-20 in a house I once lived in about 15 years ago.  I thought it was a great DW.  In fact, it was probably the best I'd ever had up to that time.  The cycle times were short and rarely did I ever have to re-wash an item. We got rid of it when we remodeled and went with black appliances.  I could kick myself because I didn't know at the time that I could have simply changed the panels. 

I will admit that there are many brands made today that do a much better job of cleaning; however, for its day, the KDS-20 was top of the line in my book.  But my experience was limited to various Whirlpool and Maytag models up to that time.

Looks pretty good

The silicon sealant on the wash-arm hub is from the factory.

The stiff buttons [ I figured you were pushing them without having the door latched [ don't do that ], LOL

Spray a little silicone lubricant in the PB switch and also spray the plastic cam in the timer, this really makes these old parts work much better and hopefully longer.

You can use any acceptable gleaner on the rusty porcelain tank, Porcelain  coating is glass same as you Chambers range, bathtub etc.

I don't know what the oily stuff inside the door is, might be spilled wetting agent from the dispenser, I would clean it up as well as possible with damp hot rags.

John L.

If you use the cancel function let it go through the complete cancel 4-6 minutes, when the machine shuts down open the door and you will hear the timer reset, just a few seconds and then you are free to latch the door and start another cycle if you wish.

I'm so glad you got it!  I know you'll really enjoy it!

Progress , Hi Matthew, First Question what is your water hardness, This makes a big difference in how well any DWs works.

2nd question, is the DW getting enough water ?, test by putting a few glasses in the top rack with peanut butter smeared inside, if it is not removed the DW may have mechanical issues.

Incoming water temps over 140F should be avoided, temps this high play hell on your plumbing and also destroy cool older DWs like this one, Detergent with phosphates also greatly increasing the etching effect of using a DW and destroyed the DW and your dishes, so you have to figure out a balance that works.

Back when this great DW was built and when used daily with 140F water and phosphated detergents even great machines were lucky to last 20 years with several repairs, cheaper brands GE, HP, D&M WH etc were often very lucky to last 10 years. DWs are the most often replaced major appliance then and now.

John L.

Hi Matt

I've been following this interesting thread and sharing your excitement and frustration along the way!

To test your water hardness, you can use test strips such as these on Amazon:

When you next try it, it would be great if you could do what Dan suggested and take a photo of the water level of the main wash.

Are the detergent dispenser cups opening correctly?  You should be able to hear them pop open during the prewash and main wash.

It will be good to see how it performs next time you use it, without that flow restrictor.  

Detergent choice is another important factor.  I saw that you first mentioned that everything was covered in white powder, which sounds like possible hard water residue.  But then I also noticed that you said that there were white stains where food had dried on -- that sounds more like food/starch residue.  Let's see what happens once we know it's filling with enough water.  It's also a good idea to clean it out with critic acid, such as Lemi Shine etc.  You can fill both cups full and also add a good dose straight into the machine.  Then select the soak n scrub cycle.

If your water is soft, Cascade Complete powder should do a good job and can be added to both of the dispenser's closed cups and also the dispenser's open "indentation" or just on the back of the door when necessary.  It contains enzymes and should clean away starchy residues and leave dishes "virtually spotless." A rinse aid could also help and would assist drying, should you wish to use it.  If your water is hard, you may find a detergent such as Cascade Platinum pacs works best for you.  Cascade Fryer Boil Out and Bubble Bandit both contain phosphate and will help to alleviate the effects of hard water, but they don't contain enzymes and are unlikely to work as well as premium pacs on residues left by rice, pasta etc.  The Cascade gel you were using will not contain phosphate (unless it is 10 years old) and won't contain enzymes (unless it is Cascade Complete gel) so you are likely to see starchy residues and hard water deposits, if your water is hard.  It does contain chlorine bleach, as does the Boil out, so at least you won't have tea stains!  You really have to see what works best with your water, your water temperature, your machine, your cycles, your food soils etc.

Good luck!

Mark

Great to see the progress!  It looks like the dishes are being washed clean and clear.  I have had excellent results from Cascade Complete powder in softened water.  However I did once use it in hard water and I found calcium deposits were being left on items.  Black plastic utensils started turning white with hard water residue.

Wonderful machine.  Hope you enjoy it!

Mark

You only need the WA and the plastic China Guard that goes under it, have done this many times.

John L.

You can tell it has been repaired if you look closely, but it doesn't look jury-rigged.

John 

You can either use the entire rack or parts of it to convert your nicely repaired rack to the larger wash arm, it will work either way.

John