Thread Number: 85708
/ Tag: Other Home Products or Autos
Electrical Panel mystery |
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Post# 1102607 , Reply# 2   12/30/2020 at 22:53 (1,184 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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Post# 1102685 , Reply# 4   12/31/2020 at 17:43 (1,183 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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OK, I asked about the breaker panel brand because there's a known problem with Federal Pacific breaker panels with the "Stab-Loc" technology. And I became familiar with that issue because this house I bought in 1997 has an FP main panel, as well as two subpanels in the workshop. I did a lot of research on it, and apparently the early FP panels were OK, but somehow along the way, perhaps due to manufacturing issues, they started to fail. This usually was evidenced by arcing of the breakers. I had mine inspected and there is no such arcing problem, never has been. If there was any sign of such a problem, I would have had them all replaced. And so it goes. Also, all the wiring here is copper; I don't think aluminum wiring was ever approved for this county; perhaps never for the state of California.
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Post# 1102757 , Reply# 8   1/1/2021 at 13:23 (1,182 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Hi Matt, your old Push-Matic panel was not designed for aluminum wire.
I potentially could have had the same problem at my house. I still have the original 1956 100 Amp PM panel in my house. In 1987 we doubled the house and had a 200 Amp Square D panel installed in the garage, the PM panel became a Sub-Panel on its own 100 breaker.
The electrician that installed the 200 A SD panel ran aluminum wire to the the old PM panel and I caught him and made him replace it with copper, it is only about 20 feet away so it was not too hard for them to do.
I Love my old PM panel, it is very well made with copper bus bars where the breakers screw to the BBs, it is much safer and more reliable than newer clip in breakers [ it is really more commercial in design ] I needed a breaker for this panel about 5 years ago and they were still available and I boxes of good used spares.
For you basement range unless you are going to go to town using both ovens and 3 or more top elements at once I would fuse it to 30 amps, if you do want to use it more heavily go with a 40 amp breaker, the smaller breakers give much greater safety with an old range.
John L. |
Post# 1102769 , Reply# 9   1/1/2021 at 14:06 (1,182 days old) by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)   |   | |
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I've had some similar intermittants on some high current connections in our shop. It seems to be a run away situation where contact resistance in the connection is slightly high causing localized heating. Thermal expansion works the joint loose, and then resistance increases making the problem more severe.
This shows the drawbacks of a fixed mechanical joint (screw clamping), if it loosens at all it will never tighten again. Spring terminal connections allow the joint to move a bit while still maintaining good contact. It is somewhat akin to the superiority of spring (Corbin) hose clamps as compared to the inferior worm gear clamps. The spring ones stay tight with changes in temp or cold flow if the hose material. I have taken to treating all high high current connections with a smear of Caig Labs LS260Cp grease before tightening the connection. This has seemed to eliminate any issues by reducing contact resistance and warding off any oxidation in the connection. This is the best battery terminal treatment I have ever found too.
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Post# 1102770 , Reply# 10   1/1/2021 at 14:12 (1,182 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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Well, I've yet to be shocked by the FP panels here, and that's over 23 years, with a fair amount of renovations. I can attest however that I have managed to trip several of the breakers by overloading the circuits (like with a floor sander plus lighting on a 15 amp circuit). I have looked at Square D panels at HD and thought, yeah, some day. But so far, so good. I did have pre-purchase inspection and it concluded that the FP main panel didn't seem to have any issues. There are some new in box spare breakers in the workshop. I wondered why. Perhaps some failed in the past.
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Post# 1102973 , Reply# 13   1/3/2021 at 02:05 (1,181 days old) by CircleW (NE Cincinnati OH area)   |   | |
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Many manufacturers make 35 and 45 amp breakers. Eaton and Square D both offer them. Haven't seen them in HD or Lowe's, but distributors of those brands usually stock them. I prefer panels with copper busbars, so mine are Eaton CH. The Square D QO series also has this feature. |
Post# 1102974 , Reply# 14   1/3/2021 at 02:06 (1,181 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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Yeah, back in the late 90's I researched the whole FPE power panel/breaker story and recall at least one source said the problems were associated with some manufacturing runs. I got the impression that the early FPE breakers were OK, but later ones did have some problems. And at that time the problems were arcing at the Stab-Loc connecitons, and this could be observed by inspecting the panel. Somewhere I have an inspection report that mentions that this problem was not observed on my panel(s).
I don't know the exact details, but I have gathered the main problem has been the design of breakers/panel connections, what FPE calls "Stab-Loc", where a forked piece of metal on one engages with the other, and that this could deteriorate and cause the arcing. In any case, have had no problems with the FPE panels here for the past 23 years. |