Thread Number: 86037
/ Tag: Vintage Dishwashers
Need Help! Panel Dishwasher deepness |
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Post# 1105955   1/26/2021 at 22:09 (1,157 days old) by Natosha_Jacobs (New York)   |   | |
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I need advice please. I want my integrated DW - Kenmore Elite 12776 panel ready - to be flush with the cabinets. I even got a 2" overhang for the granite and it comes out past that?
Our kitchen remodel is near complete and this issue I am unwilling to overlook. I went with a KD so they could advise me, but I don't agree with or like the answer. Cabinet depth is 24" standard. And behind the DW we removed the drywall to gain 3/4" space. Unattached the DW depth was good. KD ordered the Starmark dishwasher standard cabinet. Because the cabinet has a faceplate at 24" - it was the only place he could attach. But this has the DW out way past the cabinet doors. Should we have gotten a different style cabinet? I see pics all the time and these are flush - what am I missing? I do not want to accept that there is no solution. Thanks.
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Post# 1105962 , Reply# 1   1/27/2021 at 07:59 (1,156 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR)   |   | |
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I just looked up the depth of your dishwasher and if I read it correctly it said 24.874" but it's not clear to me if that is with our without the panel. I looked up the depth of my Bosch 800 series panel ready and it lists 21-5/8" Depth. If I read this correctly a different dishwasher may give you what you need if that's an option. Looks like Miele panel ready machines are a little over 22" depth.
All of the panel ready machines I have seen installed have been European (BOSCH and Miele mostly) machines of some type and I believe the dimensions of most of those is less than a Kenmore for example and all that I have seen have been flush to the cabinets.
I may be totally off on this. This type of installation seems much more common in European kitchens and we have many folks here who have them. I'm eager to hear their input. |
Post# 1105966 , Reply# 3   1/27/2021 at 08:36 (1,156 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)   |   | |
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there are always options, now whether you choose to choose one is up to you....
you may have seen what others look like being flush, but what was needed behind the scenes you are not seeing, and appears your hitting the same concerns... a few options may be.... note: fixing one problem, may create another.... you already cut out the sheet rock behind the machine, you may have to cut more into the studs to gain the needed rear space.... pulling the base cabinets forward to match flush is another choice... select another dishwasher, but consider all dimensions fully assembled before choosing one.... also, when adding a custom front panel, sometimes you may have to add stronger door springs to accommodate the extra weight... |
Post# 1105973 , Reply# 4   1/27/2021 at 10:32 (1,156 days old) by beehiveboy (Northamptonshire, England )   |   | |
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Hi there, I’m not able to be massively helpful other than to say that this type of dishwasher has been commonplace in Europe for about 30 years, and always installs flush with no additional fiddling around behind the machine. So I guess I would agree with the above poster that looking at a European machine might be the answer.
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Post# 1105985 , Reply# 5   1/27/2021 at 11:01 (1,156 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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It sounds like the problem is where you are attaching it to the side cabinets, If the DW fits before you pull it forward to attach to the side cabinets attach it to the underside of the counter top instead.
You can get a metal strip that glues to the bottom of the silly granite counter top so the DW can be properly positioned, with having already removed the drywall there is no reason the DW will not fit completely flush.
As mentioned you could go with a much smaller Bosch or Miele DW which are made to fit under European 22" deep CTs, but this is unnecessary for what you are doing.
John L. |
Post# 1106000 , Reply# 6   1/27/2021 at 12:49 (1,156 days old) by RP2813 (Sannazay)   |   | |
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Post# 1106065 , Reply# 7   1/27/2021 at 22:32 (1,156 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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I deal with Granite counter tops every working day and there is very little good about them.
They stain, crack, get chipped all around the sink openings, they are unsanitary [ generally not allowed in commercial settings ]
When I am working on DWs, ranges and refrigerators there is almost always broken glass under the appliances from all the items that have been broken on the CTs.
This whole DW installation problem would not have happened except for the difficult granite CTs.
Those are the facts, as for editorializing they are also ugly, very few cutting edge kitchens would ever use something that ugly.
John |
Post# 1106113 , Reply# 9   1/28/2021 at 13:38 (1,155 days old) by RP2813 (Sannazay)   |   | |
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Post# 1106118 , Reply# 10   1/28/2021 at 14:04 (1,155 days old) by twintubdexter (Palm Springs)   |   | |
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You may have to go through the back wall entirely. If it's an outside wall you can get creative.
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Post# 1106119 , Reply# 11   1/28/2021 at 14:19 (1,155 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR)   |   | |
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Post# 1106121 , Reply# 12   1/28/2021 at 14:27 (1,155 days old) by dermacie (my forever home (Glenshaw, PA))   |   | |
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Post# 1106162 , Reply# 14   1/29/2021 at 07:40 (1,154 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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In the US DWs are designed to be attached to the lower edge of the counter top, problems arise when when using granite and other stone CTs because you generally do not want to try drilling holes in them because you may cause them to crack and break.
There are work arounds that can work, the best ones I have seen is metal strip with hundreds of holes in it that can be epoxyed to the bottom of the CT and the DW attached to the strip.
John L. |
Post# 1106191 , Reply# 16   1/29/2021 at 15:53 (1,154 days old) by RP2813 (Sannazay)   |   | |
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Steve, thanks for providing genuine installation instructions from the manufacturer -- for use by both professionals and the DIY homeowner -- that eliminate the need for applying a glued-on strip of metal to the countertop in order to secure the dishwasher. This post was last edited 01/29/2021 at 16:22 |
Post# 1106233 , Reply# 17   1/30/2021 at 07:18 (1,153 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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All WP built DWs come with brackets that can be used to mount the DW to the counter top [ preferred ] or positioned on the upper sides of the DW to attach the DW to side cabinets.
Using these side mounting brackets is apparently what caused this thread to get started because the brackets were screwed into the front hardwood cabinet frame which positions the DW too far forward in many cases.
The poster can use the side brackets if they want but they may have to add some wood to beef up the cabinet sides so the screws will hold.
The best way to install this DW when using stone CTs is to use the steel mounting strip glued to the bottom of the CT material and at and the steel strip also attaches to the side cabinets.
Hi Ralph, I don't know why you often start spewing out advice when you don't know what is going on, my first rule of posting anything on line in print is to know what I am talking about and to be pretty damn sure that I am correct in what I am posting.
John L. |
Post# 1106249 , Reply# 18   1/30/2021 at 12:11 (1,153 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)   |   | |
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seen too many times of not even using any said brackets.....
the installer actually drilled through the side of the dishwasher attaching it to the cabinet....and without bracing properly, pulled the sides out of whack, and the door would not seal properly.... if done properly, may not have had issues..... once seen on a F&P Dishdrawer....they drilled and screwed from the side....not paying attention that they screwed through the arms that lower the lid....and ergo, the machine would leak water onto the floor....also in thinking, it was a malfunction from the machine itself.... it can be done right, if someone knows what their doing, and really messed up if they dont..... |
Post# 1106252 , Reply# 19   1/30/2021 at 12:35 (1,153 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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Post# 1106254 , Reply# 20   1/30/2021 at 12:44 (1,153 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)   |   | |
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very true Glenn.....
it was just one of those times, they either didn't pay attention, or know what they were doing.... in any case, they tossed out a perfectly working machine....not realizing what was done to cause the leak.... F&P did have a nice square cabinet around their dishdrawers....could almost be used as a stand alone unit.... |
Post# 1106257 , Reply# 21   1/30/2021 at 13:30 (1,153 days old) by RP2813 (Sannazay)   |   | |
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