Thread Number: 86405  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
A Kenmore 80 DD washer that I want to fix up 		[Down to Last]

automaticwasher.org's exclusive eBay Watch:
scroll >>> for more items --- [As an eBay Partner, eBay may compensate automaticwasher.org if you make a purchase using any link to eBay on this page]
Post# 1109847   2/28/2021 at 20:18 (1,142 days old) by Jben (AL)        

Six months ago I had purchased what I thought was a nice Maytag SAV (Amana-tag) TL washer that appealed to me because of the robust suspension. It already started leaking from the outer tub and I am following the consensus which was to cut my losses.

Now I just purchased a Kenmore 80 series that I hope to have better luck with! It no longer has the model # tag but I believe it was made somewhere in the 2000-2003 era. I’ve been reading past threads and I’m getting ready to buy a spanner wrench so I can pull the inner tub for a deep cleaning. I also will be working on some rust areas and paint touch up.

I ran the first 4 or 5 medium size wash loads through it yesterday to see what I have to work with; and would like to see what you think about the neutral drain.

First I believe the timer is advancing AND pausing consistently like it should after each part of the cycle. I ran my first load on the “Regular” cycle and noticed after the agitation (and short pause) that the tub started it’s spin just as soon as the drain started. Moving on to after the rinse cycle was complete, it did the same thing again. Not looking good.

Next load I used “Perm. Press” to see if that made a difference. After the washing (and pause) the drain and spinning starting again together. At this point we are 3 for 3 the neutral drain (ND) not working. However, after the rinse cycle I was very surprised when the machine completed the ND just like it was suppose to. Then it paused and started into the spin cycle like it should.

Now I’m confused so I ran another load on “Perm. Press”. This time the ND worked perfect on both wash and rinse!

I took an hour or two off for lunch and on the next cycle the ND didn’t work again after the wash phase, but worked perfect after rinse. By now I’ve read more here and learned how to test the machine without doing full wash cycles. The next four test the ND worked perfect each time!

Here is what I’m thinking. The washer had sat in my van for over night and the temps were in the mid 40’s. It was up to about 52 - 56F in my garage when I was testing the machine. Perhaps the gear oil was too cold / thick and it took a bit of work to get it warmed up. Therefore ND may work consistently when the washer is inside at more normal temps.

See the second picture of the underside with the oil spray line on the inner housing. That is how I got the machine but I cleaned that all off, and there was no more oil that has showed up so far. Still that oil concerns me since I do not know the history.

1. I’m going to be pulling the tub to do the deep cleaning, so should I just plan to open the transmission to replace the gear oil – or wait to see if the ND works again on a few more test loads and, if so, figure it’s all good for now? I’m thinking no need to install the 388253 ND repair kit unless we are sure there is a problem ?

2. I do have a small leak from the pump so that will be replaced. I was surprised to see there are dozen's of “brands” of pumps offered on Amazon, but I plan to purchase one from an appliance store so that I have a chance to “get it right the first time”.

3. If anyone knows why there is a small foam “belt” around the brake housing I would like to understand what that is for (picture #3 immediately above the yellow spring).

4. Also, why do they all have that piece of white cardboard mounted to the bottom side of the motor?





  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 4         View Full Size



Post# 1109850 , Reply# 1   2/28/2021 at 20:41 (1,142 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
1. if your going to open the trans, not a bad idea to replace the ND kit, whether it was working or not....and add fresh oil

2. some swear by FSP parts, but have found generics work just as well...

3. sound deadening material...

4. just accidental precaution...


add insulation inside, it will really quiet that machine down....

Post# 1109853 , Reply# 2   2/28/2021 at 20:58 (1,142 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
Well, I will tell you my experience from observing my 1986 Series 90 Lady Kenmore. After 8 or 9 years, it no longer did a neutral drain at the end of the wash of its first load of the day. Sometimes it sequenced like it was supposed to after the rinse. But as time went on, it usually took the whole first cycle. I found it behaved as it was supposed to with doing several loads one after the other. Another thing I did to avoid the initial non neutral drain, was to run it on fast final spin for the 6 minutes to get the transmission warmed up good and then it behaved like it was supposed to.

Post# 1109854 , Reply# 3   2/28/2021 at 21:00 (1,142 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
4 ... I've always assumed the shield is to protect the floor from an occasional electrical spark when the motor starts.

Post# 1109958 , Reply# 4   3/1/2021 at 19:03 (1,141 days old) by mtn1584 (USA)        
PLEASE

Don’t stress yourself!!! I can’t tell you how many of these Kenmore machines I have owned. The Neutral Drain DOES NOT work on all cycles!!!
If you select high agitation you’ll get a nuetral drain once in a while. In normal agitation you will get a neutral drain 85 percent of the time.
I owned 3 of these KENMORE 3 Speed Washers, sold a house and left one, bought another for the new house, got divorced and bought another for my apt.
NONE of them ever had a 100 percent chance of a Nuetral Drain!
The washer works as it should but the softener gets dumped after the initial drain period because the tub stops and the gear switches to spin.
Mike

Post# 1109961 , Reply# 5   3/1/2021 at 19:27 (1,141 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
Neutral drain is intended to always work.  Per the original service manual when the mechanism was introduced, five to eight seconds of agitation and 10 rotations of the main drive gear is enough to reset the neutral drain mechanism to engage at the next motor pause/reverse.

Post# 1109962 , Reply# 6   3/1/2021 at 20:04 (1,141 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
My DD 1986 LK did appropriate neutral drain sequence for its first 10-14 years of use.

Post# 1109986 , Reply# 7   3/2/2021 at 07:11 (1,140 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
DD Washers and Neutral Drain

 combo52's profile picture

Yes it should always work, as they age they often become erratic, sometimes changing the oil to a really good oil will solve the problem, otherwise change the neutral pack.

 

If it was my machine I would not put up with a machine that did not work properly if it was an everyday driver.

 

John L.
Post# 1110033 , Reply# 8   3/2/2021 at 19:03 (1,140 days old) by Keith (Connecticut )        
DD Neutral Drain Issues

 Every single DD washer I’ve owned developed neutral drain issues. Super annoying, and absolutely not normal operation as every single one worked perfectly on every cycle when new. I’d say it was really the only thing they’re notorious from my (and others I’ve talked to)’s experience as far as failures. The transmission needs to be fixed as it should work every time.

Post# 1110043 , Reply# 9   3/2/2021 at 22:07 (1,140 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)        

maytag85's profile picture
One nice thing about the belt drive design is the neutral drain always works unless if the spin solenoid on the wig wag develops a bad or broken plunger.

Post# 1110050 , Reply# 10   3/3/2021 at 07:28 (1,139 days old) by Jben (AL)        

John mentioned "sometimes changing the oil to a really good oil will solve the problem".

1. What oil has everyone been using with success?

I searched the old threads and see that many are using 80w-90 gear oil. However I found this comment too:

"...the factory spec oil is a 60w and very thick. 80w-90w is roughly equivalent to a straight 30w. In other words the fluid you used is way too thin."

2. When I pull the transmission I'll be looking at the tranny cover seal, and the upper and lower shaft seals. My plan (for now) is I will not replace them unless I can see signs of leakage or damage. Is there any one of these seals that seems to be a problem area that I might just should replace while the machine is torn down?

I want to do a good job but don't want to do work that might cause problems in areas that don't need "fixing"

Post# 1110057 , Reply# 11   3/3/2021 at 09:07 (1,139 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        

These transmissions should be filled pretty much all the way full with oil, right?

In that case viscosity won't matter terribly much, especially since it sits in a pretty consistent ambient temp.




If you want to pump oil at low temps or rely on oil splattering about and staying on surfaces for some time afterwards viscosity does matter way more.

If everything is submerged anyway, viscosity isn't as big of a deal, lubrication will occur anyway.





And anyway I'd guess that the more fluid oil is what would give you the temporary fix anyway.

There is probably one part not setting during the pause.
Lower resistance by oil makes that easier to slip in.





But if you are already ripping the transmission out and draining the oil, rebuilding it shouldn't be much worse either.
Rather do it all at once then.



There are threads on here about that and pretty certainly bids on YouTube as well.

Just make sure you order all the right parts, replace the seals as you go as well and take plenty of pics and vids for yourself as you disassemble.
And set aside a day with nothing else on schedule.

Post# 1110059 , Reply# 12   3/3/2021 at 09:15 (1,139 days old) by henene4 (Heidenheim a.d. Brenz (Germany))        
Here's a good video




Post# 1110901 , Reply# 13   3/10/2021 at 20:58 (1,132 days old) by Jben (AL)        
ND Kit intalled and Progress Update

I got the new ND kit installed and the transmission buttoned back up today. It took longer than planned because I elected to take out each of the parts out for a good cleaning before the final assembly.

Now I move on to further clean up and getting ready for painting. A couple of questions please:

1. I found the inner tub developing some pretty good rust on the more "hidden" areas. (pics 2 + 3) I had some Corroseal rust convertor and treated all of the rust areas that I found. I plan to paint that tub with a white, industrial oil-based enamel paint that I have; both the inside and outside.

Is that acceptable practice - any problems if I paint over the porcelain surface inside. It would look better but is that only for the short term? Like will fresh paint hold up to all detergents and chemicals in the wash water? Or, would it be better to leave the inside alone even if there are a few small rust spots showing up?

2. Why did Whirlpool\Kenmore etc, not extend the tub ring outer ledge all the way around in the very back - behind the fill spout (see pic. #4). I see a lot of machines that show signs of water splashing out of the tub back there. Why not have that ledge (or dam) in that area too so that water might bounce back into the tub instead of making it easier for water to go out here, and drip down on the back panel then on to the floor!

Has anyone put a piece of tape or done something to raise that area 1/4" or so? What were the designers or engineers thinking?

  Photos...       <              >      Photo 1 of 4         View Full Size
Post# 1110920 , Reply# 14   3/11/2021 at 07:27 (1,131 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Fixing Up A DD Washer

 combo52's profile picture

Hi, Great Progress, I would not try painting the inside surface of the wash basket not only will it probably not wear well it may start flaking off on clothing.

 

The gap at the rear of the tub cover is designed as an over flow area, it is at the rear so water will not overflow near the motor in the front.

 

Some provision for machines to overflow without getting on electrical parts is a design requirement by UL etc.

 

John L.
Post# 1173866 , Reply# 15   3/5/2023 at 22:52 (407 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)        
whirlpool gear oil

 I must say that whirlpool gear oil is very thick indeed. I think that's what GE used in their filter-flo as did whirlpool did in their direct drives. They must want these steel gears to be truly lubricated. 60w seems to be equivalent to 90w.


Forum Index:       Other Forums:                      


Comes to the Rescue!

The Discuss-o-Mat has stopped, buzzer is sounding!!!
If you would like to reply to this thread please log-in...

Discuss-O-MAT Log-In



New Members Click Here To Sign Up.



                     

automaticwasher.org home
Discuss-o-Mat Forums
Vintage Brochures, Service and Owners Manuals
Fun Vintage Washer Ephemera
See It Wash!
Video Downloads
 Audio Downloads
Picture of the Day
Patent of the Day
Photos of our Collections
The Old Aberdeen Farm
Vintage Service Manuals 		Vintage washer/dryer/dishwasher to sell?
Technical/service questions?
Looking for Parts?
Website related questions?
Digital Millennium Copyright Act Policy
Our Privacy Policy