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Thread Number: 86613
/ Tag: Ranges, Stoves, Ovens
18" dishwasher tale of woe! |
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| Post# 1112144 3/20/2021 at 18:05 (1,130 days old) by firedome (Binghamton NY & Lake Champlain VT) | ||
So our only 4 yr old Chinese-made POS Frigidaire (in name only!) 18" d/w has crapped out apparently. As long as the door is shut there's a constant subtle humming noise but none of the electronic controls will work even though the LEDs do light up. Trying to decide if its even worth having it looked at. I don't want to deal with it that's for sure, hey, it's not a vintage KA...LOL
So if it IS toast: I believe I read here once that all 18" d/w are made in China, I think it is by Danby? If so that's a sad state of affairs. 18" d/ws out there now range from Danby, just under $500, to over $1000 in price, all kinds of brands from Bosch, Electrolux, Frigidaire, Haier, Samsung, SPT (?) Danby, GE Profile (Haier). Summit (?), Avanti (?),Edge Star (?)...all kinds of oddball brands. So is there any 18" that's made by someone other than Danby, is that the only one? Who the hell is Danby anyhow? I'd prefer US made but is that even an option? And no over-priced over-engineered brands please. I know compacts are very common in NYC &c cities... what's one to do?? John combo52, or you other appliance repairers or dealers - any relevant experiences with 18"ers? | ||
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Post# 1112147 , Reply# 1 3/20/2021 at 18:46 (1,130 days old) by petek  (Ontari ari ari O ) |
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Danby as far as I recall from years ago was, maybe still is, a Canadian company that back in the day sold compact fridges, window shakers etc. mostly at discount department and catalog stores. I'm not even sure if they ever made their appliances here.
Today there are numerous outfits over in China plonking out these products, Midea probably being the largest of all of them. | ||
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Post# 1112153 , Reply# 2 3/20/2021 at 19:35 (1,130 days old) by RP2813 (Sannazay) |
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Post# 1112157 , Reply# 3 3/20/2021 at 20:15 (1,130 days old) by Fisherpaykel (BC Canada) |
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18 inch dw I see both Miele and Bosch are selling 18 inch models in USA at least some of which have a third cutlery rack so maybe they are not made in China, or if so perhaps built to higher quality. | ||
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Post# 1112159 , Reply# 4 3/20/2021 at 20:25 (1,130 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Welcome to my world!
www.automaticwasher.org/c... www.automaticwasher.org/cgi-bin/... Small 18" dishwashers either portable or built in never where a huge part of North American market. That's why only Frigidaire (also sold as Kenmore) pretty much were only options. This may have changed with trends towards even small kitchens having built in dishwashers. But aside from Miele and a few others known for producing their own products am going with many of the others are all sourced from same manufacturer. Danby is all over the place with manufacturers in China, Turkey, India, etc... Their early products such as compact front load washers, dryers and dishwashers were a hit with many North American consumers. Can't say that is always true today. Edgestar (made in China) also offers an 18" dw, which makes be believe Danby's units are sourced from same manufacturer. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danby_...(appliances) www.reference.com/world-v... www.guelphtoday.com/local-news/d... www.productfrom.com/products/CN/... | ||
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Post# 1112165 , Reply# 5 3/20/2021 at 22:14 (1,130 days old) by CircleW (NE Cincinnati OH area) |
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My neighbor Judy has one of those unfortunate excuses for a dishwasher. Some piece has fallen off the bottom of the front, and won't stay on. | ||
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Post# 1112166 , Reply# 6 3/20/2021 at 22:28 (1,130 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.) |
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Roger, have you disconnected power to the unit?
This tends to reset electronic timers. Just simply unplug, turn off the switch, or breaker and let it sit for at least a half hour. Then try again. It may be as simple as that. Other than that, it could be a wire has worked it's way loose and simply checking that all are appropriately connected may be necessary. I never leave appliances with electronic timers/controllers energized when not in use. Always have a hard break to protect it from lightning strikes and power surges. Or for appliances like water softeners with electronic timer, have it on a standard lamp timer so it's off for an hour a day which allows the timer to rest but not lose settings. I had a similar problem with a Whirlpool duet that suddenly would freeze up. This happened a few times. It was after that that I learned to always disconnect after each use and never have had problems like that since. Good luck. | ||
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Post# 1112172 , Reply# 7 3/21/2021 at 00:39 (1,130 days old) by petek (Ontari ari ari O ) |
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I recall looking at some 18" Kenmores which were obvious Danby's. Europe seems to get more selection in these sizes and for other things like 24" inch induction cooktops etc by Chinese companies that only do a small busines over here in N.American. Like Hi Sense.. we an get some tv's , a small electric stove, and fridge, but none of their smaller dishwashers . Same with Midea. Problem with them as I see it is servicing,, there is none that I know of.
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Post# 1112175 , Reply# 8 3/21/2021 at 01:03 (1,130 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.) |
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No compacts made in U.S.
It seems the domestic large traditional appliance manufacturers have thrown in the towel on compact appliances,
bulked up what they do offer, and pumped up the prices to make up for their declining market share. I wouldn't buy any of these typical U.S. made, over priced, over sized appliances. When you can get excellent deals on compact appliances sent direct to ones home. I have no doubt that the Chinese will continue to refine, improve, and innovate appliances going forward. The bulky over sized appliances rely on people who think bigger is somehow better. It isn't pretty. literally. This pumping up the size and prices is familiar as that's what the U.S. auto manufacturers have been doing for the last couple of years. Instead of making compact, efficient cars that are affordable and the majority would buy; they've been putting their effort into hideous bulky, suv junk and pumped the prices to ridiculous levels. Their sales continue to tank but the income from that they do manage to sell has been increasing. But that's not going to last long. CLICK HERE TO GO TO bradfordwhite's LINK on eBay
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Post# 1112185 , Reply# 9 3/21/2021 at 06:00 (1,129 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Best 18" DWs Hi Roger, I would consider fixing your 4 YO FD if possible, if you get the part yourself it will be a lot cheaper than ditching the machine.
Currently nearly all the 18" machines on the market in the US are the same Chinese machine.
There are no good vintage 18" DWs available because none were ever built and sold in the US, D&M started building and selling 18" DWs about 35 years ago and they were always POS and the plastic tub FDs that followed were just about as bad.
You could go for a Bosch or a Miele 18" model if you want to spend a $1000 + just be sure that someone in your area wants to work on it.
PS, I have a lovely Miele 18" DW that you can have, it is 11 YO and have a broken plastic latch handle that is NLA so the customer had to replace it, I have been unable to find the handle. It is neat DW but very complex, it even has a built in water softener so you can use cheaper regular detergents.
John L. | ||
| Post# 1112209 , Reply# 11 3/21/2021 at 12:28 (1,129 days old) by firedome (Binghamton NY & Lake Champlain VT) | ||
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thanks all...
Laundress, I think the exact models of the ones you had/mention are now nla.
Basically it's mostly limited to Chinese machines as mentioned by John it seems. I really dislike being so limited in choice. I'm inclined to avoid Miele/Bosch due to reports by some, initial cost, worry about repair costs and service, and given some very negative experiences with certain vaunted over-engineered German cars in the past. Interestingly in our VT place we have basically the same machine as the FD here, but with GE nameplate, 3-4 yrs older, and with a mechanical timer. No problems yet, though it has seen more limited seasonal use. Wish we could buy an 18" with no electronic controls/timer, as it seems they are often the problem. Brad, I did disconnect it, but only for a minute, and when I reconnected it it did it's usual "beep" to indicate power "on" but still behaves as before. Now the LED for whatever "cycle" is selected and the "washing" LED come on, but nothing happens except a faint hum. Normally the Start button lights also, and it does it's pump out then the new water fill. I'll disconnect it again for an hour and see what happens. Interesting about having the power turned off when not in use, seems rather impractical though. John, I'll probably do that, I'm hoping a service call and part will end up being less than $750 for a new black front 18" FD, but wondering about part availability for this bastard child. Generally we do prefer repair to replacement as a matter of principle, right now I'm just not inclined to delve into it, too electronic and my PMR makes doing much of anything difficult nowadays. I wish we had room in our teeny kitchen for the nice'74 KDC17 out in the shed but we'd lose a cabinet we can't spare, and there's no room for a portable. | ||
| Post# 1112225 , Reply# 12 3/21/2021 at 14:34 (1,129 days old) by firedome (Binghamton NY & Lake Champlain VT) | ||
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Parts prices: | ||
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Post# 1112229 , Reply# 13 3/21/2021 at 15:00 (1,129 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Post# 1112231 , Reply# 14 3/21/2021 at 15:02 (1,129 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.) |
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"the power turned off when not in use, seems rather impractical though."
VS Inconvenience of electronic appliance not working and the threat of "control board - $320, motor/pump assy: $350, drain pump $124, yikes! If one of those is bad + service call of, what, $150+? ... might as well go new..." Choose your weapon of self defense. ----- I do the same with online computers, celphones, and similar by removing batteries at least once a week. Its solved and prevented so many problems. Computers will hold errors and viruses. They need to be purged by cutting the energy that allows the virus (infection) to live. | ||
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Post# 1112270 , Reply# 17 3/21/2021 at 20:35 (1,129 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.) |
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For something like a washing machine changing out that standard double outlet with this makes it real easy to turn off when not in use.
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Post# 1112271 , Reply# 18 3/21/2021 at 20:40 (1,129 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.) |
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For things like water softener transformers, computers, low voltage charger stations, lawn sprinkler transformers, AV equipment, and modems
Have the item turn off for at least a half an hour a day when you know the items plugged into it won't be used.
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Post# 1112274 , Reply# 19 3/21/2021 at 20:54 (1,129 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.) |
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I once rented a place that had something similar to the dw below. While it worked
I was rather surprised that it hummed and when I put my hand near the right side of the console it was quite warm. Obviously the electronic transformer was right behind the panel. I turned the wall switch off for it. Don't know what was going on there but it's probably not a unique situation. It's a good example of Fantom energy use. That dishwasher could sit there for years and no one could use it YET it would still be using electricity and could short out, trip a breaker, or even melt down partially in an unusual situation. A standard analog timer appliance won't do that.
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Post# 1112275 , Reply# 20 3/21/2021 at 20:56 (1,129 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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I never routinely power-cycle appliances or computers. Computers aren't rebooted unless 1) required for an update or 2) a lock-up occurs, which rarely happens any more. This one has been up since 3/3/2021. The old iPhone5 once-in-a-while goes wonky and won't send a text so gets power-cycled in that case. | ||
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Post# 1112276 , Reply# 21 3/21/2021 at 20:59 (1,129 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.) |
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And THIS which most of us know
but Whirlpool for some weird reason wants us to believe otherwise With it's dial that only selects a cycle and could just as easily be done with a push button as well as displaying cycle progression with indicator lights and is turned on/off with the same style push buttons that COULD be used for the cycles. Is an ELECTRONIC timer and needs to be switched off or unplugged between uses.
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Post# 1112278 , Reply# 22 3/21/2021 at 21:06 (1,129 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.) |
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This style washer has an ANALOG timer.
No progress lights, no on/off button, and the timer actually turns. It doesn't need to be protected, though it's still a good idea.
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Post# 1112280 , Reply# 23 3/21/2021 at 21:15 (1,129 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.) |
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It's just funny that Whirlpool has decided that all their dishwashers should be electronic and have a clean electronic control panel
They've also decided that all their washers should also be electronicly controlled BUT It's necessary to obscure those controls ON SOME MACHINES with goofy knobs. (?) Maybe because the budget dryers still have analog controls and they were concerned about it matching a washer? It's just insulting to me.
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Post# 1112284 , Reply# 24 3/21/2021 at 21:40 (1,129 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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The pushbutton on the washer in #21 is not a latching on/off switch. It's a momentary-contact switch. The control board is powered continuously when the power cord is connected. Turning the cycle knob in the proper fashion when the machine is "off" triggers diagnostic mode. That couldn't happpen if the electronics were OFF / not powered. There's no need to unplug the machine between uses. RJ has a 2010-model (2012 serial) VMW at one of the rental properties. Bought used, has been there since Oct 2016. It's never unplugged between uses, the tenants would have no concept of a need for it, and wouldn't do it anyway. Never been any electronic problems with it thus far. | ||
| Post# 1112342 , Reply# 25 3/22/2021 at 12:44 (1,128 days old) by firedome (Binghamton NY & Lake Champlain VT) | ||
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well there's a good ending here...
after a 1 hour power disconnect in the basement, which was effectuated by pulling a plug that I had put on heavy gauge romex from the d/w and plugs into an outlet located on the wall beneath where the d/w is in the kitchen upstairs (because we didn't have room in the 100 amp box for another separate breaker), we powered on again. Went up stairs, and still no change upon pushing "Start", and must have left the door closed, because 20 minutes later while on the computer the d/w starts to drain, then begins filling. So I let it go thru a complete normal cycle, and no problems. No idea why that happened, or why it was humming loudly the morning of the initial problem, then every the door was opened then closed, the humming continued, but at a much lower level, and continued to do so every time the door was shut but would not start. Now this. Weird, but I'll take it, fingers crossed. Maybe it's a self-healing machine...go figure.
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Post# 1112357 , Reply# 26 3/22/2021 at 14:17 (1,128 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.) |
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#24
Glenn,
As has been described and demonstrated, there IS a need to unplug electronic appliances when not in use. As for an electronic washer in a rental property: I hope it's written in the lease that tenant is responsible for all repairs to appliances. You or whoever is the owner, will be on the hook to pay for repairs when an idiot tenant inevitably damages an appliance or it simply needs a common repair. If a tenant knows they are responsible for maintenance, they will most likely follow a simple procedure to turn a switch on when using an appliance. When I had rentals I would included appliances only as a courtesy and would assume they would be ruined or stolen. Ideally not including any so the tenant has to be responsible for their own possessions. What ever the choice is, it needs to be spelled out clearly or it would default onto the property owner in most cases. A landlord including appliances that they expect the tenant to take care of but ultimately the landlord is responsible for service on is like a landlord including ANY utilities. Very foolish. | ||
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