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Thread Number: 86771
/ Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Spin Spray |
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Post# 1113417 4/1/2021 at 03:20 (1,118 days old) by chetlaham  (United States) |
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Post# 1113426 , Reply# 1 4/1/2021 at 05:26 (1,117 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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My Whirlpool convertible/portable (in Harvest Gold no less) had spray rinses after main wash before rinse, and after during first few minutes of final spin.
To get an idea behind why washing machines use spin rinses you can study patents. patents.google.com/patent/US5737... patents.google.com/patent/US5167... www.freepatentsonline.com... IIRC original purpose of spin rinses was to reduce water used for rinsing. Many older automatic washing machines had either overflow rinsing and or ability to do two deep rinses. Spray rinses after deep before final spin removes (again in theory) need for a second full rinse. Easy "SpinDrier" washers and others also realized it was possible to rinse laundry using less water just doing spray rinses. Hoover and other twin tubs also had these methods. Unimac twin tub washers still use a method similar to Easy spin drier washers of old. To effectively spray rinse water must be aimed properly at washing, tub rotation must be at speeds that water merely will not just bounce off laundry, but rather be allowed to saturate by penetration. Overflow rinsing was important in days when soap was still queen of wash day as gunk and scum was floated up and over wash. This instead of laundry acting as a filter when water was drained through. With semi-automatic washers such as wringers or twin tubs one lifts laundry out of wash water into a mangle or spin dryer. Link and gunk tend to cling less to laundry that is lifted out of dirty water. Spray rinsing will accomplish (or so it is hoped) same results as overflow rinsing. Water sprayed at wash will saturate laundry and centrifugal force will take water along with dissolved soils, gunk, scum and lint out and down drain. Spray rinsing also (again hopefully) will clear much or most of soap/detergent/suds from outer wash tub and sump. When washer stops extraction cycle and begins to fill with water for rinse cycle it should be mostly clean. This rather than regurgitating whatever was left after wash. www.automaticwasher.org/c... | ||
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Post# 1113432 , Reply# 2 4/1/2021 at 08:31 (1,117 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Thing is even with all that spray rinsing on top of a deep often wash done in top loader still contains good amount of residue.
People usually find this out when switching from top to front loader and wonder why they have sudsing problems at first. In good number of cases it isn't because they used too much detergent, but that laundry had residue that H-axis washer is now dislodging. | ||
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Post# 1113433 , Reply# 3 4/1/2021 at 09:07 (1,117 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR) |
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Years ago we bought an Asko Washer and Dryer. I remember the salesman telling us not to use any detergent the first couple of washes because we needed to let all the stop residue from the Top Loader wash away. I'll be damn if he wasn't right. I remember the first load we did actually had some suds from the residual. | ||
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Post# 1113449 , Reply# 5 4/1/2021 at 11:24 (1,117 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA) |
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filter-flo I had a filter-flo that did a spin/rinse. No wonder why the GE filter-flos never sudslocked! | ||
| Post# 1113452 , Reply# 6 4/1/2021 at 11:39 (1,117 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan) | ||
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My newer F.L. washer spin sprays twice, just like old top loaders did. | ||
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Post# 1113454 , Reply# 7 4/1/2021 at 11:56 (1,117 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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I'm not sure I've mentioned this before, but I will now. I got a first generation LK DD wash October 1986. You cannot imagine my shock, disgust, and dismay after doing the first load that there was no spin spray after the wash and only ONE 10 or 15 second spray after the rinse. And this followed my life-long experience with BD WP/KM washers featuring 4 spray rinses for both after the wash and rinse. It made me very mad I had to pretty much keep the extra rinse option on for just about every load I did no Normal. Perm Press did have an after wash spray rinse AFTER the cool down phase. I thought, this is bass-ackwards. Knit/Gentle also only had the after rinse spray rinse. Friends from college moved into a new house about 5 or 6 years later and had a brand new KM 70 series washer & dryer. You can imagine how peeved and disgusted I was when discovering there were two spray rinses after both the wash and rinse. (I had to do a 2nd load just to make sure I didn't imagine 2 spray rinses each spin period). Maybe if Whirlpool and Sears had instituted the function of these 2 spray rinses after the wash and rinse as well as putting speed control knob on the control panel rather than only built into the timer from the beginning of the DD design washers being fully rolled out for both KM and WP products, maybe I wouldn't have such disdain for top loaders as I do to this day. At one point, I remember Sears touting a feature/function on their washers at one time for both an UltraRinse feature and then an UltraWash feature. I felt cheated from a poor performance stand point about my LK DD. It's why I gleefully welcomed a used Frigidaire front loader Steve 1-18 found for me in September 2006 and brought it to me in October.
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| Post# 1113476 , Reply# 8 4/1/2021 at 15:45 (1,117 days old) by qsd-dan (West) | ||
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Post# 1113497 , Reply# 10 4/1/2021 at 22:06 (1,117 days old) by lotsosudz (Sacramento, CA) |
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HEY APPNUT
I hear you on the Whirlpool/Kenmore products. I hated them for their lousy Neutral drain. It never made sense to me why you would want the washer to redeposit all the crap you just washed out, to settle back on to the clothes. Also if you had the waterfall filter, as soon as the agitation started for rinse, all the trapped suds would spew out and pollute the rinse water immediately. Not great planning. Give me a Filter Flo. I love my LG front load, and would never want to go back to a top load.
Hugs, David | ||
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Post# 1113504 , Reply# 11 4/2/2021 at 01:09 (1,117 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Neutral Drain
Was one of reasons decided to part with my Whirlpool convertible/portable washer. Just got tired of having my laundry act as a strainer for wash or rinse water.
At the time was dismissed as so much nonsense as spin drain was no better, and that spray rinses would wash off the gunk. That just wasn't my experience at all... Well designed H-axis washers tumble a bit during draining to facilitate removal of water, and to keep from straining water through laundry. Much as one loves WP's "Surgilator" and "Magic Mix" filter, the neutral drain bit just wasn't up my street. | ||
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Post# 1113505 , Reply# 12 4/2/2021 at 01:28 (1,117 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Everything being said one wonders if choice of detergent or soap for wash played into effectiveness of spray rinsing.
Notice in WP clip above very little suds in wash and water coming up from sump after spin is comparatively clear and free of suds. Notice however in this clip of 1962 RCA Whirlpool washer that had more suds at the wash, even with what seems more lavish spray spin rinses suds still come up from sump at start of rinse. Our own WestyToploader showing off a vintage SQ washer doing an agitated overflow rinse. Even with this machine being a later model that used less water, you can see why spray rinses soon displaced over flow. | ||
| Post# 1113517 , Reply# 13 4/2/2021 at 03:21 (1,117 days old) by qsd-dan (West) | ||
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"Also if you had the waterfall filter, as soon as the agitation started for rinse, all the trapped suds would spew out and pollute the rinse water immediately. Not great planning. Give me a Filter Flo."
Uhhh, a GE Filter Flo has that same issue. I agree with your other statements though. CLICK HERE TO GO TO qsd-dan's LINK | ||
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Post# 1113601 , Reply# 14 4/3/2021 at 08:26 (1,115 days old) by Frigilux (The Minnesota Prairie) |
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I've always been a bit skeptical about first-spin spray rinses, especially if they occur while the tub is spinning at full speed. Is the water really penetrating a load that's super-compressed against the side of the tub?
A few vintage brands timed the spray-rinse so the tub wasn't up to full speed and load was less compressed. As was mentioned above, I suppose they help get rid of suds in the sump/outer tub. Speed Queen certainly sees it that way, as a portion of the spray is aimed directly into the outer tub, if I recall correctly. Modern top-loaders--at least what I've seen from videos of LG and Fisher & Paykel--really nail spray rinsing. The tub rotates slowly as a well-aimed spray saturates the load. Spin speed increases to extract the water from load. Repeat. The spray rinse on the Normal/Eco cycle of my 2017 Speed Queen is not as well designed, although I use it frequently for small-to-medium loads. In those circumstances, I don't notice much of a difference between the effectiveness of spray rinses vs. a deep rinse and it reduces water usage substantially. Of course, the difference lies in the fact that a "classic" spray rinse was never meant to be the only rinse. They were merely the prelude to a deep rinse. | ||
| Post# 1113639 , Reply# 16 4/3/2021 at 19:50 (1,115 days old) by eurekastar (Amarillo, Texas) | ||
 I always assumed that the one minute spray rinse in my Maytag A608 was to knock down suds before the deep rinse. That makes sense to me because of the higher sudsing detergents that were in use at one time. However, my old Whirlpool DD utilized a series of spray rinses AFTER the deep rinse. That made no sense to me, especially when a fabric softener was used. | ||
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Post# 1113643 , Reply# 17 4/3/2021 at 20:03 (1,115 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA) |
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I agree. Especially when using a downy ball. At least the softener in the filter-flo still has a chanced to be mixed during the deep rinse. | ||
| Post# 1113660 , Reply# 19 4/3/2021 at 23:21 (1,115 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806) | ||
My 1963 Whirlpool Imperial Mark XII does 4 6 spray rinses after the first wash and another 4 after the rinse. So far I’ve been happy with the wash and rinse performance on my ‘63 Whirlpool but it seems like it doesn’t seem to rinse like it did when I first got it back in July and that more than likely has to do with the fact I put a larger pulley on to the transmission and the clutch and belt adjustments seem to be a little out of wack and that’s not the machines fault but more of a error on my behalf. Since I located the correct size of pulley, it should have the same wash and rinse performance like it did when I first got it.
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Post# 1114073 , Reply# 20 4/8/2021 at 18:57 (1,110 days old) by chetlaham (United States) |
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Post# 1114094 , Reply# 21 4/9/2021 at 00:55 (1,110 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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IMHO where you really notice difference between H-axis washers and top loaders is dark items.
Properly loaded (no mixing whites or lights, lint givers with those that take it on), darks done in an H-axis washer emerge with far less lint and gunk than top loaders of any sort. This includes the latter with spray rinses, spin drain, neutral drain and whatever else they've got. Did a load of darks once when had WP portable/convertible, and it made a dog's dinner of things. So much lint and gunk that even a trip through dryer couldn't remove it all. Oddly enough other method of getting nearly gunk free darks is washing by hand in a tub, using Hoover TT or Maytag wringer. Think this has something to do with fact laundry is lifted out of muck laden water for extraction. This rather than it acting as a strainer when water is pulled though via spin. | ||
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