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Thread Number: 86863
/ Tag: Vintage Automatic Washers
Kenmore 80 Series (Year 2000) Neutral Drain Delicate |
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| Post# 1114270 4/11/2021 at 09:41 (1,104 days old) by BlockEight88 (Hobart, IN) | ||
Hello,
I have purchased a "refurbished" Kenmore 80 Series washer from a local appliance shop. The unit is from the year 2000, per the model number and serial. The machine is in very good condition. I opened it up to clean and had my friend install a new lid switch. Every time I set the machine to delicate, or extra slow it does a drain spin. I was told this is not normal. I then read that the machine may need to warm up or something, I am not sure. But on regular and heavy duty speeds it's fine. Is this something to worry about? To add, when it delicate it will start neutral draining for about 3 seconds, then make a loud clunk noise then spin/drain. I have a 3 month fully covered warranty on the unit. However, I would prefer to gather some input from washing machine experts first.
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Post# 1114272 , Reply# 1 4/11/2021 at 10:23 (1,104 days old) by DADoES  (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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 Neutral drain failure, of course, is not normal operation but it won't damage the machine. It will cause improper release of fabric softener if the machine has a centrifugal, agitator-mounted softener dispenser and you use it ... softener will release when drain-spin pauses after 2 mins (the point at which spin would normally begin after neutral drain). Contributing factors are 1) Thickened transmission oil. Can be caused by age and/or operating the machine in a cold environment. 2) Worn neutral-drain components in the transmission. A low-cost repair kit is available. Requires pulling and opening the transmission which is a messy job but not difficult. Draining and replacing the transmission oil during the repair (which is a good idea but may also be considered optional) takes care of that factor. Both factors are more likely to cause neutral drain failure at slower agitation speeds, less-so at high speed, but all speeds (eventually) may be affected. | ||
| Post# 1114273 , Reply# 2 4/11/2021 at 10:33 (1,104 days old) by BlockEight88 (Hobart, IN) | ||
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Post# 1114274 , Reply# 3 4/11/2021 at 10:37 (1,104 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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| Post# 1114281 , Reply# 4 4/11/2021 at 11:21 (1,104 days old) by BlockEight88 (Hobart, IN) | ||
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Post# 1114309 , Reply# 5 4/11/2021 at 14:34 (1,104 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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| Post# 1114318 , Reply# 6 4/11/2021 at 15:48 (1,104 days old) by Repairguy (Danbury, Texas) | ||
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| Post# 1114357 , Reply# 7 4/11/2021 at 21:24 (1,104 days old) by BlockEight88 (Hobart, IN) | ||
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| Post# 1114371 , Reply# 8 4/11/2021 at 23:22 (1,104 days old) by toploadloyalist (San Luis Obispo, CA) | ||
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The same happens in Whirlpools of that time. | ||
| Post# 1114450 , Reply# 9 4/12/2021 at 16:32 (1,103 days old) by BlockEight88 (Hobart, IN) | ||
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So if I wanted to replace the old transmission with a new one, that would fix the issue? I see this unit is brand new? Can anyone advise?
partsdr.com/part/3360629-transmi... | ||
| Post# 1114451 , Reply# 10 4/12/2021 at 17:31 (1,103 days old) by qsd-dan (West) | ||
A complete transmission may be your only option now. Up until recently, $20 would get you an entire kit to rebuild these transmissions (Part# 388253A) but Whirlpool discontinued them and no aftermarket company that I know of has offered one yet. It appears that Whirlpool is aggressively trying to force these machines into the scrapyard so they can sell you a new one.
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| Post# 1114452 , Reply# 11 4/12/2021 at 17:38 (1,103 days old) by BlockEight88 (Hobart, IN) | ||
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Post# 1114479 , Reply# 12 4/12/2021 at 20:47 (1,103 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Post# 1114486 , Reply# 13 4/12/2021 at 21:35 (1,103 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Yay, I found another neutral drain kit. Replacement transmissions are filled with oil, ready to install. I didn't recall for sure if a coupler is included. The photo at PartsDr shows the transmission half of a coupler on it, assuming that's accurate. Your motor will have the other half already on it (and the rubber bushing to be reused), if a full coupler set is not included with the new transmission. | ||
| Post# 1114489 , Reply# 14 4/12/2021 at 22:21 (1,103 days old) by Repairguy (Danbury, Texas) | ||
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I guess since it is close enough to me he 10 year mark since the direct drive machines have ceased to be built there will be a lot of NLA parts. I hate to see it as much as the next direct drive enthusiast but in this day and age I feel whirlpool was gracious to continue the parts as long as they did.
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| Post# 1114490 , Reply# 15 4/12/2021 at 22:23 (1,103 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806) | ||
Whirlpool is evil for discontinuing parts for the direct drive washers and like QSD-DAN said they are deliberately trying to force good machines into the scrap yard. Whirlpool clearly no longer cares about customers anymore and they only care about the gullible consumers and customers that don’t know any better. I feel bad for the repair techs who have to put up with this crap since the newer Whirlpool top loaders use the cheaply made transmission/gearbox in them that tend to crap out after 5 years of use and AW user Eurekastar has had to deal with the transmission crapping out in his newer Maytag commercial washer.
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| Post# 1114491 , Reply# 16 4/12/2021 at 22:29 (1,103 days old) by Repairguy (Danbury, Texas) | ||
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Post# 1114504 , Reply# 17 4/13/2021 at 06:45 (1,102 days old) by WhiteWhiskers (Silicon Valley, California) |
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lots of rebuild kits available on eBay
There's a seller on eBay who is selling the kit 388253A for $25, free shipping, claims to have more than 10 available.
My 30 year old DD, my profile picture, seldom does a neutral drain after the wash cycle, but always after the rinse. It's all very random. I had assumed the fault was with the mechanical relays on the timer board, which have been a source of problems for many years. Now reading this thread I'm not sure. What happens is the machine will proceed after a brief pause from wash agitation to a spin out of water which may last a minute. Then the machine stops, as if the lid had been lifted, then spin starts again for the normal time. I keep thinking I should have a spare coupler on hand as spinning the basket with a full load of water must place a large strain on the coupler. But so far there haven't been any faults so things just keep going and going. | ||
| Post# 1114506 , Reply# 18 4/13/2021 at 06:56 (1,102 days old) by BlockEight88 (Hobart, IN) | ||
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@ DADoES
So replacing the entire transmission will fix the neutral drain, correct? Do you know if this transmission is likely to be more noisy than the original, like other posters have stated above? Also would this be the coupling set needed: www.searspartsdirect.com/... | ||
| Post# 1114519 , Reply# 19 4/13/2021 at 10:03 (1,102 days old) by BlockEight88 (Hobart, IN) | ||
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Post# 1114540 , Reply# 20 4/13/2021 at 12:30 (1,102 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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DD Washer Parts DD washers were in production through 2017 in the 24 & 27" top load stack machines.
I would not buy a new transmission for a DD machine from WP, the last few we got were noisy and three failed in less than a year.
You are better off buying a RB unit from Core-Centric's or finding a good used one or trying to RB yourself.
John L. | ||
| Post# 1114542 , Reply# 21 4/13/2021 at 12:41 (1,102 days old) by BlockEight88 (Hobart, IN) | ||
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Post# 1114564 , Reply# 22 4/13/2021 at 17:12 (1,102 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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This online offering says it's a rebuilt by Corecentric. 3360629R Transmission Also Amazon What I heard in the past about new ones is that the casting molds for the housings (and perhaps some of the internal gears) are/were aged and getting a bit out-of-spec and WP didn't/doesn't want to invest in re-upping them. The internal gears (except the spin gear) are metal (steel or cast iron) and don't catch much wear in the oil bath during operation so can run for years. The spin gear is nylon/plastic and is included with the neutral drain kit. You say that you're not mechanically-inclined so it may not be reasonable for you to try the refurb DIY (if you can nab a kit), although you may have some aptitude that you just haven't yet tested. Perhaps a capable friend or family member? There are videos on YouTube. A tricky aspect is anchoring and supporting the transmission securely and level so the oil doesn't spill out when opening it and reassembling it. It won't sit level by itself, need a workbench vise or some sort of support frame. I would do it for you at cost of the parts and supplies ... but you and your machine are there and I'm here. | ||
| Post# 1114568 , Reply# 23 4/13/2021 at 17:39 (1,102 days old) by BlockEight88 (Hobart, IN) | ||
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@ DADoES
I really appreciate your help, I do. I'm sure I can figure something out. I just want to be clear, make sure to avoid buying a new transmission, correct? I'm not likely to have issues buying the one you listed from Corecentric? Maybe a stupid question, but this would automatically include the neutral drain kit, right? I'm learning as I go lol. | ||
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Post# 1114576 , Reply# 24 4/13/2021 at 19:29 (1,102 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Neutral drain parts are inside part/parcel of the transmission gearing and function. An assembled transmission has them already installed. (Note that there is a transmission version *without* neutral drain ... early direct-drive models prior to late 1984 did a spin-drain by design, no neutral.) Couple videos covering how to do the repair ... the procedure inside the transmission, not details on pulling and replacing the transmission into the machine. (Lorain Furniture - Eugene is a member here)
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| Post# 1114577 , Reply# 25 4/13/2021 at 19:54 (1,102 days old) by BlockEight88 (Hobart, IN) | ||
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Post# 1114585 , Reply# 26 4/13/2021 at 22:03 (1,102 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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| Post# 1114600 , Reply# 27 4/14/2021 at 08:02 (1,101 days old) by BlockEight88 (Hobart, IN) | ||
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| Post# 1114625 , Reply# 28 4/14/2021 at 11:38 (1,101 days old) by BlockEight88 (Hobart, IN) | ||
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| Post# 1115440 , Reply# 30 4/24/2021 at 02:48 (1,091 days old) by Stan (Napa CA) | ||
Matt 
Thats good that a tech is coming from the place you bought it from !
I have replaced the neutral drain on my 80 series a couple of years back. What’s a little confusing to me, is that yours dose it’s neutral drain on regular and heavy. But not when set to delicate? The first thing I thought of as a read your problem, was that you may have a bad timer? It will be interesting to know when the trans is replaced (fresh ND included) if that solves the problem? Keep us posted, as inquiring minds want to know. | ||
| Post# 1115441 , Reply# 31 4/24/2021 at 03:56 (1,091 days old) by qsd-dan (West) | ||
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If thick gear lube is a contributing factor to skipping a neutral drain, perhaps using thinner weight oil such as 80/90 or even 75/90 may be a remedy.
Is there any yellow metal parts in these transmissions? If not, any conventional/synthetic GL5 lube should be ok. This post was last edited 04/24/2021 at 04:30 | ||
| Post# 1116353 , Reply# 32 5/4/2021 at 17:32 (1,081 days old) by BlockEight88 (Hobart, IN) | ||
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Post# 1116355 , Reply# 33 5/4/2021 at 17:49 (1,081 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Reply #32 | ||
| Post# 1116380 , Reply# 34 5/5/2021 at 08:36 (1,080 days old) by BlockEight88 (Hobart, IN) | ||
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Post# 1116408 , Reply# 35 5/5/2021 at 10:53 (1,080 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Functioning of the timer can be confirmed by observing the operational sequence. 1) The motor should turn off briefly (5-ish seconds) as the timer turns from the last increment of both the wash or rinse agitation period to the drain increment. 2) Drain (neutral mode, no spin or agitate) for two minutes. If there was the motor pause as the timer turns but spin-drain occurs (either immediately or it engages before another motor pause occurs), then the problem is the transmission not the timer. 3) Another brief motor pause as the timer turns from drain to spin (which allows the neutral drain components in the transmission to release into spin mode). Check that the proper motor pause sequences occur on both the Ultra Clean/regular cycle and on the Permanent Press cycle. The motor/transmission runs in one direction for agitation mode, the reverse direction for spin mode (and neutral drain). Agitation resets the transmission into neutral drain mode. The next time it runs in the reverse, the set neutral drain parts hold the transmission from spin mode. Pause the motor, neutral drain releases, start it again in the same reverse direction and spin occurs. From this point spin will continue to occur immediately every time the motor/transmission runs in the same reverse direction ... unless some agitation happens first (the motor/transmission runs in the other direction, 10+ seconds should be enough). | ||
| Post# 1116423 , Reply# 36 5/5/2021 at 12:42 (1,080 days old) by BlockEight88 (Hobart, IN) | ||
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Post# 1116424 , Reply# 37 5/5/2021 at 13:06 (1,080 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Post# 1116429 , Reply# 38 5/5/2021 at 14:04 (1,080 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK) |
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DADoES
Would you explain in terms I will understand how the neutral drain works please is it by weight ie when its drained enough water out it will spin or is timed for so long ? I really do not comprehend how it knows when to spin. As you know most FL over here work via a pressure switch and I do recall a Hotpoint top loader we had would not spin until a solenoid was activated so it had a electric link.
Thank you so much Austin | ||
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Post# 1116434 , Reply# 39 5/5/2021 at 15:34 (1,080 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Neutral drain is completely a mechanical function inside the transmission. The spin gear is not driven in agitate direction. There are weighted and spring cams and levers in the transmission that set during agitation and function to lock the spin gear from turning when the motor first changes to the reverse direction after an agitation period ... when neutral drain begins. The cams and levers release when the motor stops after drain. The spin gear then is driven when the motor restarts in the same direction (reversed from agitation) for spin, and the spin gear is driven. A cam and gear on the agitate shaft also shift one way or the other to engage or disengage agitation, depending on which direction the motor & transmission are running. | ||
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Post# 1116435 , Reply# 40 5/5/2021 at 15:56 (1,080 days old) by brisnat81 (Brisbane Australia) |
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Hey Austin, There is nothing intelligent about it. The Drain period is a timer increment after the first pause and before the second. After the second pause, the machine will spin, regardless of whether there is water in there or not. Cheers Nathan | ||
| Post# 1116437 , Reply# 41 5/5/2021 at 16:33 (1,080 days old) by BlockEight88 (Hobart, IN) | ||
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Post# 1116438 , Reply# 42 5/5/2021 at 16:49 (1,080 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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| Post# 1116445 , Reply# 43 5/5/2021 at 19:08 (1,080 days old) by BlockEight88 (Hobart, IN) | ||
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Post# 1116447 , Reply# 44 5/5/2021 at 19:24 (1,080 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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It Is Impossible For A Bad Timer To Cause Your Washer | ||
| Post# 1116452 , Reply# 45 5/5/2021 at 19:47 (1,080 days old) by BlockEight88 (Hobart, IN) | ||
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Post# 1116453 , Reply# 46 5/5/2021 at 20:17 (1,080 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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This 5.5 hrs video is seven full cycles of an appliance dealer playing with a 1999 Kenmore 80 haulaway. It has both bad neutral drain and a bad timer. The timer doesn't run the motor during the drain increment on the Ultra Clean / Regular cycle for both wash and rinse, and (usually) not on the rinse drain on Perm Press. Neutral drain fails majority of the time so it does a spin-drain at the spin increment. Sometimes it runs neutral drain briefly then slips into spin. Neutral drain starts working on two later cycles (4+ hrs period) which results in 1) neutral drain at the spin increment and no spin since there isn't a 2nd pause, and 2) neutral drain and spin both function properly. Drain/spin periods on the seven cycles: 23:55 35:55 58:25 1:11:35 1:37:45 1:49:10 2:16:10 2:27:00 3:21:40 3:32:30 4:01:30 (spin fail) 4:12:55 (spin fail) 4:38:35 (neutral drain & spin both work) 4:52:25 (neutral drain & spin both work for PP rinse drain) | ||
| Post# 1116457 , Reply# 47 5/5/2021 at 21:11 (1,080 days old) by BlockEight88 (Hobart, IN) | ||
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Post# 1116465 , Reply# 48 5/6/2021 at 07:10 (1,079 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Failure To To A Neutral Drain Hi Matt, the problem your washer is having is a very common problem, it has been seen thousands of times, it is a transmission problem, It can NOT be caused by the timer.
As I stated in a post above a timer that fails to pause will only result in a load not being spun at all if the transmission was not faulty.
John L. | ||
| Post# 1116476 , Reply# 49 5/6/2021 at 08:46 (1,079 days old) by BlockEight88 (Hobart, IN) | ||
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| Post# 1116722 , Reply# 50 5/9/2021 at 03:21 (1,076 days old) by Stan (Napa CA) | ||
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Hi Matt | ||
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Post# 1116727 , Reply# 51 5/9/2021 at 06:41 (1,076 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK) |
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Thank you | ||
| Post# 1117119 , Reply# 53 5/13/2021 at 08:54 (1,072 days old) by BlockEight88 (Hobart, IN) | ||
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I believe the neutral drain kit is back in stock.
www.searspartsdirect.com/... UPDATE: Turns out, the timer was not the problem. I have ordered the rebuilt transmission by Corecentric Solutions and a new motor coupling for my machine. Hopefully that will fix it. Thanks to everyone for the input. I'll report back once the new transmission is installed. | ||
| Post# 1117201 , Reply# 54 5/14/2021 at 01:34 (1,071 days old) by Stan (Napa CA) | ||
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Hi Matt | ||
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Post# 1117215 , Reply# 55 5/14/2021 at 09:51 (1,071 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Post# 1117373 , Reply# 56 5/16/2021 at 07:15 (1,069 days old) by WhiteWhiskers (Silicon Valley, California) |
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re: I wouldn't any longer buy parts from Sears | ||
| Post# 1118186 , Reply# 57 5/24/2021 at 16:00 (1,061 days old) by BlockEight88 (Hobart, IN) | ||
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| Post# 1118197 , Reply# 58 5/24/2021 at 17:49 (1,061 days old) by Stan (Napa CA) | ||
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Happy ending ! | ||
| Post# 1118199 , Reply# 59 5/24/2021 at 18:22 (1,061 days old) by BlockEight88 (Hobart, IN) | ||
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| Post# 1118280 , Reply# 60 5/25/2021 at 11:49 (1,060 days old) by BlockEight88 (Hobart, IN) | ||
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