Thread Number: 87214  /  Tag: Modern Dishwashers
Best ďModernĒ Dishwasher
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Post# 1117948   5/22/2021 at 07:10 (371 days old) by HobartHero (New York)        

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I love my old vintage DWís but I run my machines so much I donít want the wear and tear on them that theyíre bound to get around my house. My vintage machines will always be in circulation but not permanent use as my daily driver and Iím wondering what make/model modern dishwasher (Something made after 1995 or so) would be best to look for. Thereís an abundance of machines around 25 years old or less and Iím sure I can come across just about anything if I know what to look for. I used to have a nice early 2000ís Kenmore that always cleaned great, I gave it to my brother when I bought my new Kitchenaid in 2015 and I always regretted getting rid of it because the expensive SS Kitchenaid just didnít compare with cleaning ability. As always I look forward to your opinions and expertise.

Post# 1118073 , Reply# 1   5/23/2021 at 20:51 (369 days old) by HobartHero (New York)        

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I know I post a lot, my apologies for constant questions. Iím super interested in learning from you all and I tend to jump into things with both feet 😬. My other half would like me to get a new under counter unit installed to replace our existing machine that has been beaten to death. And the newer Kitchenaid is not anything special compared to others Iíve had in the past. Luckily the old Maytag has come in handy during this transition time, but I want to make sure I install a quality ďmodernĒ under counter machine. My vintage KAís are a work in progress still before I can install one of those as Iím still in need of some parts or a donor machine.

Post# 1118075 , Reply# 2   5/23/2021 at 20:54 (369 days old) by steved (Guilderland, New York)        

I just installed a Maytag for my daughter and she loves it! Got it at Lowes.
See my thread:

Post# 1118079 , Reply# 3   5/23/2021 at 21:14 (369 days old) by HobartHero (New York)        
Looking for something used.

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I appreciate the advice on the Maytag but Iím ideally looking for something used to save some money. Anything 25 years old or newer is fair game for this install.

Post# 1118088 , Reply# 4   5/23/2021 at 22:21 (369 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Shannon, a Whirlpool PowerClean and the Kenmore Ultrawash equivalent. These are NOT the tall tub designs, but those produced before 2002 or 2001. Find ads online and post link and we can help you identify these if needbe.

Post# 1118093 , Reply# 5   5/23/2021 at 23:47 (369 days old) by HobartHero (New York)        

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Hereís a local option. Looks like it was very well taken care of and minimally used. Comes with the original paperwork so thatís always a good sign for me. Not sure if this is the correct type youíre referring to Bob? Let me know what you think.

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Post# 1118094 , Reply# 6   5/23/2021 at 23:50 (369 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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That's one of them!!!!!!

Post# 1118095 , Reply# 7   5/24/2021 at 00:02 (369 days old) by HobartHero (New York)        
Mid level model?

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I believe Iíve also seen these with more buttons/ cycle options, so Iím assuming this is a mid level model? Will all the whirlpool units Iím looking for have the silverware rack on the door like this does? If so thatís an obvious giveaway so I know what to look for. Any other visual giveaways I should look for?

Post# 1118097 , Reply# 8   5/24/2021 at 00:17 (369 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Mid-level to slightly higher. Not too many more options on the panel by this time in the run. More like racking variations. Yes, in-door silverware basket is the clue. The Kenmore versions had the flatware basked in the bottom rack. These were very sensitive to whether it received a full charge of water for each fill. And with this being local, you may need to either clean out the inlet valve of sediment or replace it.

Post# 1118098 , Reply# 9   5/24/2021 at 00:28 (369 days old) by Cam2s (Nebraska)        

The standard tub power clean has a flush kick plate where the tall tub point voyagers did not. The sump is swept in the power clean design where itís flatter on the point voyagers. Whirlpool badged machines usually have the in the door silverware basket where as the Ultra wash machines have a bull nose rack with an in the rack silverware basket. Also the detergent dispensers in the power clean machines where on the right side of the door, the point voyagers have a different style dispenser mounted higher up. Pick 1,2, and 3 are point voyagers and 4 and 5 are are ultra wash badged power cleans. Hopefully you can spot the differences.

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Post# 1118100 , Reply# 10   5/24/2021 at 00:37 (369 days old) by Egress (Oregon)        

is the point voyager platform good by any means?
we've got a kitchenaid branded one thats kinda sputtering its last life out currently.

Post# 1118101 , Reply# 11   5/24/2021 at 00:45 (369 days old) by Cam2s (Nebraska)        

While the power clean is a great dishwasher Bosch makes a great dishwasher too. European dishwashers are kinda love them or hate them here. As much as I love my vintage machines the Bosch I had was better. The power scrub cycle was about 2 hours which yes is longer than a vintage machine but it could scour the nastiest dirtiest loads clean and do so in silence. I never had issues with the filters getting dirty or the drying performance either. Just my 2 cents anyways.

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Post# 1118103 , Reply# 12   5/24/2021 at 01:31 (369 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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Cameron, Shannon said he was looking more for vintage so that he could save some money. I just got a new boss last Thursday and Saturday I have scrambled eggs and use the heavy cycle on that Skillet and I've never had a dishwasher since the pot scrubber 1200 take care of scrambled eggs like that. Otherwise I would have suggested Bosch to Shannon also if new would have been fine.

Post# 1118114 , Reply# 13   5/24/2021 at 06:14 (369 days old) by Pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        
kitchenaid are good as well

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Post# 1118117 , Reply# 14   5/24/2021 at 06:32 (369 days old) by Rolls_rapide (.)        

Surely that Bosch is approaching 'vintage' status? I'm assuming that is the 'Apexx' series? It looks suspiciously similar to the Bosch 'Exxcel' mid-range over here, so must be well over a decade old by now. The dispenser is of the standard version too.

Modern Bosch have the dispenser high up in the middle of the dishwasher door, with the dispenser cover sliding vertically.

Post# 1118119 , Reply# 15   5/24/2021 at 07:09 (369 days old) by agiflow ()        

I would say a Whirlpool power clean or a Kenmore ultra wash may be the ticket. Had a portable Whirlpool power clean and it was an excellent cleaning machine.

Very rarely ever used more than normal cycle and I didn't prerinse anything. Wish I would have taken it with me now.

Post# 1118124 , Reply# 16   5/24/2021 at 08:09 (369 days old) by HobartHero (New York)        
Bosch Units

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I found a couple Bosch units. Both are asking $150. Not sure which is the better model. Black one looks older and says the handle or something comes off if you pull too hard when opening the dishwasher but otherwise it works fine. White one says itís in perfect working order. Are these better than the Whirlpool or Kenmore options that were suggested?

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Post# 1118129 , Reply# 17   5/24/2021 at 09:05 (369 days old) by Dustin92 (Jackson, MI)        

The Whirlpools listed above are better machines.. Having owned both in the past. The Bosch machines will be quieter, probably more efficient, but have NO heated drying function. You won't consider it an issue until it has to be left with the door open for 24hrs to dry... The Point Voyager system can have electronic issues fyi.. We had a Kenmore that gradually lost function of one button at a time until only 2 cycles worked, no options and eventually the start button stopped responding as well. Currently using a low to mid range Frigidaire and have been relatively happy with the performance.. It's quiet and holds a lot but can be picky with how it's loaded. Older Frigidaire models left a lot to be desired.

Post# 1118130 , Reply# 18   5/24/2021 at 09:14 (369 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR)        
My preference is the Bosch

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Personally, I don't care for the silverware in the door.  I think it's a pain to pull the rack in and out to put in silverware but then I don't stack the silverware up in the sink or on the counter and do it at once.  Just a preference.  Some here don't mind it.


Of the two Bosch pictured, the white one is newer looking.  If you use a Rinse Aid and hi temp rinse you won't have much of an issue with the dishes getting dry.  But again that depends on how you run the dishwasher.  I also would prefer the Bosch because it's quieter.  This is one of those questions where you might get as many opinions as you get responses.  It really depends on your own habits, your budget and how much you care about hearing the dishwasher run.  I am on my third Bosch (in as many houses) and have never had an issue with dishes getting dry but I always use Rinse Aid and a hi temp rinse.  I would think given you have infants in the house you may want a machine with a Sanitary rinse cycle and that would give you the hi temp rinse.


As far as the Frigidaire is concerned, I have a bad taste because of the all issues they have had for years.  Maybe the newer ones are better but I don't think I would buy one.  

Post# 1118139 , Reply# 19   5/24/2021 at 10:46 (369 days old) by agiflow ()        

I have a Frigidaire model that came with my home. While it is no power clean it does a fine job on everyday soils that are not burned on.It also has the better "thunderbolt" type wash arm that is better than the orbital one thy use on their higher lines.

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Post# 1118154 , Reply# 20   5/24/2021 at 12:02 (369 days old) by JohnBee (USA, NY)        

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I will sell my Miele in July if you're interested.
Great Machine. Replaced a noisy whirlpool.
It cleans everything in normal. And I'm not the prewash or soak guy.

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Post# 1118160 , Reply# 21   5/24/2021 at 12:52 (369 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
The Bosch

are the budget priced Assentia machines. I would avoid Frgidaire/Electrolux. The first Whirlpool you posted is the 940 model from about 1999. Ours lasted a decade. They had micro switch issues. Ours was stuck on normal, but worked a couple more years.
Of course the Miele is "spitzenklasse".

Post# 1118169 , Reply# 22   5/24/2021 at 14:09 (369 days old) by HobartHero (New York)        
Nice Miele

hobarthero's profile picture
I would definitely be interested in the Miele, but I donít think I could get away with the cabinet front look. If it was white, black or stainless Iíd be all over it.

Post# 1118181 , Reply# 23   5/24/2021 at 15:44 (369 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        

the front cabinet panels can be changed, or even painted. Painted wood kitchens are the latest trend. Sharkfin grey, white, pastels, even contrasting upper and base cabinet colors.
That honey oak front can even be restained darker. Just do a light sanding to remove anyclear laquer, and seal the new safe water base stain stain with water based polyeurethane. No hazardous off gassing around the babies! We have an 8 and 4 year old grand daughter and son.

Post# 1118182 , Reply# 24   5/24/2021 at 15:45 (369 days old) by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

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Personally, I don't care for the silverware in the door.
Some, most, maybe not all, of the WP in-the-door silverware baskets can be detached from the door and placed in the lower rack.

Post# 1118204 , Reply# 25   5/24/2021 at 18:47 (368 days old) by agiflow ()        

My 1990 portable Quiet wash had the in the door rack but it could load anywhere on the bottom rack with tight spacing.

Post# 1118211 , Reply# 26   5/24/2021 at 20:20 (368 days old) by HobartHero (New York)        
Another local Whirlpool

hobarthero's profile picture
This looks like the top end model but not as clean and perfect as the first Whirlpool I posted about. Any big difference in washing between the two models?

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Post# 1118214 , Reply# 27   5/24/2021 at 20:27 (368 days old) by agiflow ()        

They were both power clean machines so no difference. You'll get an excellent wash with either.

Post# 1118216 , Reply# 28   5/24/2021 at 20:43 (368 days old) by HobartHero (New York)        
Higher model

hobarthero's profile picture
I wasnít sure if the higher end model was better performing or not, so I thought Iíd check first. Thank you!

Post# 1118321 , Reply# 29   5/25/2021 at 19:25 (367 days old) by HobartHero (New York)        
My old Kenmore

hobarthero's profile picture
This is my old Kenmore that I gave my brother. Still runs strong! I always had great washing results with this basic machine. Itís a quiet guard. I assume it is from the same Whirlpool power clean time period?

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Post# 1118322 , Reply# 30   5/25/2021 at 19:38 (367 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
That is made by Frigidaire.

Post# 1118324 , Reply# 31   5/25/2021 at 19:43 (367 days old) by HobartHero (New York)        
Very interesting!

hobarthero's profile picture
I donít usually have much luck with Frigidaire so thatís surprising. That Kenmore cleaned much better than my $700 Kitchenaid I bought new in 2015. Either way it was a great performing little basic machine. Thanks for the info Bob!

Post# 1118325 , Reply# 32   5/25/2021 at 19:51 (367 days old) by HobartHero (New York)        
I bought the Power Clean!

hobarthero's profile picture
I pulled the trigger and purchased the Whirlpool Power Clean that I posted first in this thread. Like new condition with all the original paperwork. Used very little it would seem based on the condition. Agreed on $60 so I think thatís pretty good. Once the install is done Iíll work on getting my BobLoad certification!

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Post# 1118327 , Reply# 33   5/25/2021 at 20:05 (367 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
Excellent choice!!! And congratulations!!

Post# 1118339 , Reply# 34   5/25/2021 at 20:53 (367 days old) by Repairguy (Danbury, Texas)        

repairguy's profile picture
Good deal! You are well on your way to becoming an appliance hoarder! Lol! And it is a lot of fun.

Post# 1118343 , Reply# 35   5/25/2021 at 21:31 (367 days old) by agiflow ()        

I concur with Bob. An excellent choice !

Post# 1118349 , Reply# 36   5/25/2021 at 22:07 (367 days old) by HobartHero (New York)        
Lots of Storage

hobarthero's profile picture
I have the luxury of running a large 50+ unit apartment complex and I have a ton of storage space that is nice and dry. I think this is going to continue for a long time to come. I also collect vintage gas powered lawn equipment. I even have an 88í Yugo GVX (I used to drive one back in high school). I bet no one has one of those 😂. I look forward to many more acquisitions and fun times with all of you here.

Post# 1118356 , Reply# 37   5/26/2021 at 00:53 (367 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
Very well said!

One time, I put a cheese enchilada pan straight in the dishwasher without scrubbing, soaking, or rinsing. Boy did it come out completely clean!

Post# 1118430 , Reply# 38   5/26/2021 at 21:37 (366 days old) by HobartHero (New York)        
Lower spray arm design

hobarthero's profile picture
So Iím wondering why some power clean models have the lower spray arm with the tower attached and some do not? Is one design better than the other? I have included pictures of both designs. The unit I bought has the tower. Also I noticed a couple spray holes in the upper wash arm had thin crinkly plastic and light gunk stuck in the spray holes... Is this something that is coming apart in the unit or just something that came off dishes and got stuck in the spray arm? I am going to give it a thorough clean out tomorrow hopefully.

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Post# 1118432 , Reply# 39   5/26/2021 at 21:48 (366 days old) by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture

The tower in your first photo is attached to the lower rack, not to the spray arm.

The difference is just a variation in how to get water to the upper spray arm ... either via a spray jet aimed into it from a nozzle on top of the pump, or via a feed tube that runs up the back of the tub which avoids need for the tower in middle of the lower rack to prevent the user from loading something that would block the spray jet.

Post# 1118433 , Reply# 40   5/26/2021 at 22:13 (366 days old) by HobartHero (New York)        
Water delivery

hobarthero's profile picture
I figured it was for water delivery to the upper wash arm. I mostly just wasnít sure if one system generally worked better than the other. Thanks

Post# 1118437 , Reply# 41   5/26/2021 at 23:37 (366 days old) by Cam2s (Nebraska)        

The direct feed system was initially billed as a step up feature for the more TOL units. The other Whirlpool you where looking at was a Gold model that would have had the direct feed system. One is just as effective as the other than the direct feed system doesnít eat any rack space.

Post# 1118450 , Reply# 42   5/27/2021 at 07:18 (366 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
WP DW Water Feed To Top Wash Arm

combo52's profile picture

The center tower system has less problems, but the rear direct-feed works about as well.


The little bits of plastic you found in the WA nozzles was careless loading that allowed plastic trash to get into the DW. This is a major problem for some users, it seems that we see it most often in Maytag standard tub DWs, I guess because their arms have such small holes to catch the plastic bits.


John L.

Post# 1118455 , Reply# 43   5/27/2021 at 08:38 (366 days old) by HobartHero (New York)        
Regular wear points on Power Clean?

hobarthero's profile picture
Since these are technically vintage DWís being over 20 years old, I would assume there are certain common areas of wear and tear that I should check out. Obviously as you have all stated, these are pretty rugged machines, but I want to go over everything with a fine tooth comb before the final installation. What should I check/clean specifically. I want to get top performance from this DW when it gets the first load.

This post was last edited 05/27/2021 at 09:01
Post# 1118456 , Reply# 44   5/27/2021 at 08:55 (366 days old) by henene4 (Emden (Germany))        
Not too familar with the PowerClean

Assuming you are talking about that...

Regular issues commonly heared of are AFAIK that the pump assembly is just generally gunked up with stuff like glass and such.
That can reduce flow rate and thus cleaning ability.

Other thing is that sometimes the fill valves get scaled and thus the DW underfills since they are timed fill.
Checking for correct filling is a good idea.

Some people had parts of the wash arm assembly wear out and thus leak water by, but that is rare.

Rust spots on racks should be mended before using the machine much.

But others may have more insight on other areas...

Post# 1118474 , Reply# 45   5/27/2021 at 11:13 (366 days old) by appnut (TX)        

appnut's profile picture
These are very sensitive to not having a full charge of water for each fill as Henrik mentioned. If underfilling, the machine "cavitates" gasping for water. Sediment and scale will restrict flow over time in the inlet valve.

Post# 1118475 , Reply# 46   5/27/2021 at 11:32 (366 days old) by Egress (Oregon)        

if the plastic on the powerclean is the same stuff they used for the point voyager it'll start crumbling after a while and pieces of it will migrate into the sump. don't know how tolerant the powerclean is of small pieces of plastic, but I know our point voyager got plugged up pretty fast and I had to get in there and clean it out a few times before we replaced our silverware tray.

Post# 1118525 , Reply# 47   5/27/2021 at 22:40 (365 days old) by Cam2s (Nebraska)        

These are pretty bullet proof machines. Pull the wash arms to check for gunk and make sure they rotate freely. Youíll want to make sure the filter screen under the wash is intact and doesnít have any debris on it. As noted make sure itís getting a full change of water. If there are any spots of rust on the racks address it quickly before it spreads. Otherwise it should work like a champ.

Post# 1118527 , Reply# 48   5/27/2021 at 23:05 (365 days old) by HobartHero (New York)        

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Got it put in tonight. Seems to be working great so far, it smelled pretty musty from sitting these past few months, so I ran a load of finish dishwasher cleaner through it and that seems to have freshened it up. How do I go about touching up the racks? They are in good shape but a couple spots have wear that would be good to cover up before rust starts. I found an extra machine locally as well for $20 that Iíll keep around for parts if thatís necessary in the future as well. Thanks for the suggestions everyone 😀

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Post# 1118531 , Reply# 49   5/27/2021 at 23:23 (365 days old) by Egress (Oregon)        

lookin like she's ready for a load of the dirtiest dishes you can amass!

Post# 1135892 , Reply# 50   12/11/2021 at 11:19 by maytaga806 (Putnam, Michigan)        

Give us an update on how you are liking your new unit! I bought a portable model from 2005 a year ago and itís endured heavy use and itís never flawed once. Mine is the direct feed model and yes both systems are very powerful. Someone said you can interchange your wash system with a powerclean from tower style to direct feed or vice versa. When I did that the upper wash arm wouldnít receive full water pressure no matter what I did the black cap tower everything was aligned the way it should have so idk, anyways Iím keeping mine as a direct feed the way it came and itís given me amazing performance and I also have videos of the interior while itís washing. These are some of the most reliable machines made. Hope you are loving it and give us an update!!

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Post# 1135894 , Reply# 51   12/11/2021 at 11:29 by maytaga806 (Putnam, Michigan)        

The one thing I forgot to mention is that the soap dispenser didnít work when I got the dishwasher, and it needed a new wax motor. So I got that and easily replaced it and itís fully functioning the way it should on its own now incase you ever run into that as it looks the door was closed in the photo so hope it does work and someone had just closed it for whatever reason and then took the photos of it.

Post# 1136050 , Reply# 52   12/12/2021 at 23:27 by HobartHero (New York)        
Running Flawlessly

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I have been continuously impressed with the amazing performance of this machine. Everything comes out clean and dry every time and with 2 kids under 2 years old the certainly make lots of messes with dishes. 100% best machine ever built.

Post# 1136123 , Reply# 53   12/13/2021 at 17:34 by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)        
I LOVED these dishwashers

mark_wpduet's profile picture
through the 90s I lived several places and they all had different models of these. Most of them were Kenmore brand's made by Whirlpool...I never once had an issue with any of them. If they still made these, if something happened to my dishwasher, this is the first thing I would buy...

But ... I've gotten used to quieter dishwashers and tall tub.....I'm sure the noise would be shocking. I also remember plastics in the top would always turn over and be filled with water because these are so powerful.

Post# 1136431 , Reply# 54   12/17/2021 at 07:14 by IIIJohnnyMacIII (North Carolina)        
One Thing

iiijohnnymaciii's profile picture
Nice machine! Congrats! Donít forget to clean the air vent. After 15+ years those things can get gunked up.

Post# 1136546 , Reply# 55   12/18/2021 at 17:57 by maytaga806 (Putnam, Michigan)        

I cleaned mine out just recently and wow the bizarre things that came out of it! Much better now.

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