Thread Number: 87226
/ Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
So why exactly are Direct Drive machines no longer made? |
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Post# 1118060   5/23/2021 at 18:14 (1,059 days old) by BlockEight88 (Hobart, IN)   |   | |
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I'm really curious about this and reading conflicting reports. It seems these types of machines have not been manufactured since 2011-2012 for U.S consumers? They seem like they were great machines and I have had no issues working on mine. Can anyone shed some insight as to why these machines are not being made today? Were there ever "HE" versions of DD washers available?
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Post# 1118063 , Reply# 1   5/23/2021 at 19:24 (1,059 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)   |   | |
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Simple answers: too much government intervention/regulation, cheap and careless consumers/costumers, and corporate greed is why those machines are no longer being made sad but true.
There have been more issues with the Whirlpool VMW design in terms of reliability and serviceability than there ever was with the direct drive design and technically the VMW has been around since the 90’s but Whirlpool cheapened it so much to the point it doesn’t even hold up 5 years. |
Post# 1118066 , Reply# 2   5/23/2021 at 19:52 (1,059 days old) by BlockEight88 (Hobart, IN)   |   | |
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Post# 1118067 , Reply# 3   5/23/2021 at 19:55 (1,059 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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I don't think government regulations are the cause. There are VMW models that run a full/deep fill, including the commercial Maytag & Whirlpool models that don't have load sensing (AFAIK) or a water level control with multiple settings ... the only choice is a 1/2-ish fill (even if washing one or two items) or a Deep Wash full fill. And the Speed Queen TC5 which has the same (lack of) fill choices. Various GE, LG, and Samsung impeller models can do deep fills. So, it seems to me that water usage restrictions about which so many howl and complain isn't really a thing in topload washer design (except regards to the so-called "Normal" cycle which is the basis for EnergyStar testing). I think a factor, as I heard going around, is the casting molds for direct-drive transmissions housings (and presumably gears) were deteriorated, and Whirlpool didn't want to invest in making new molds, along with the inherent costs of producing the transmissions and other drive components. VMWs are a much simpler and presumably less-costly design, which allows for keeping the production costs under some degree of control to attain price-points that consumers can handle. Notice the Speed Queen TC5 is much more expensive. There were two revision efforts of which I'm aware toward the end of DD models to garner some reduction on water usage -- 1) Automatic water level sensing. However, selecting Softener Rinse and/or 2nd/Extra Rinse triggered both rinses to be deep fills regardless of the load size, and opening the lid during the sensing process aborted it and went to a full fill for the wash. 2) Some models toward the end had an additional hidden water level control in the rinse fill circuit that restricted the rinse to a fixed low level. |
Post# 1118138 , Reply# 5   5/24/2021 at 10:45 (1,059 days old) by BlockEight88 (Hobart, IN)   |   | |
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Post# 1118140 , Reply# 6   5/24/2021 at 10:52 (1,059 days old) by agiflow ()   |   | |
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....you can if you buy one of GE's top loaders...but i don't think i would. |
Post# 1118161 , Reply# 7   5/24/2021 at 12:54 (1,059 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)   |   | |
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are all direct drive. Aren't Whirlpool top loaders also? Even if they have a gearcase, there is no belt. |
Post# 1118170 , Reply# 8   5/24/2021 at 14:31 (1,059 days old) by BlockEight88 (Hobart, IN)   |   | |
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Post# 1118172 , Reply# 9   5/24/2021 at 14:40 (1,059 days old) by agiflow ()   |   | |
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I think more of Whirlpool's newer top load designs are using a belt now. Even some higher end models.Not sure on that though. John combo52 or anyone who repairs these could tell us. |
Post# 1118178 , Reply# 10   5/24/2021 at 15:38 (1,059 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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Post# 1118180 , Reply# 11   5/24/2021 at 15:41 (1,059 days old) by Jerrod_Six (Eastern Pennsylvania, USA)   |   | |
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What is a VMW? |
Post# 1118183 , Reply# 12   5/24/2021 at 15:48 (1,059 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)   |   | |
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the belt drive Whirlpool mid size to 3.6 cu. ft. washers with the splutch gearcase. They replaced the large Calypso direct drive and Maytag Bravos XL drive system by combining the gearcase directly coupled to the motor. |
Post# 1118188 , Reply# 13   5/24/2021 at 16:20 (1,058 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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VMW is Vertical Modular Washer, which is based on the portable/compact World Washer design. It's belt-drive with a transmission which essentially functions as a torque converter, with a mode shifter to change between agitate (which is driven via the transmission gears) and spin (which is a coupling of the spin shaft to the transmission drive pulley). VMAX is a reworking of VMW using direct-drive (Fisher & Paykel SmartDrive-type of motor) with the VMW-type of transmission and a mode shifter. VMW did not replace the Calypso. That was the Kenmore Oasis, Whirlpool Cabrio, and Maytag Bravos, which were originally direct-drive with the SmartDrive motor and F&P floating basket for spin/agitate shifting. VMAX is the replacement for that, which uses a mode shifter, no more floating basket. Calypso was belt-drive (or is belt-drive, for those still in working order). |
Post# 1118203 , Reply# 14   5/24/2021 at 18:45 (1,058 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)   |   | |
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I have a question slightly off topic, excuse me. What did GE do their drive system to compete with the whirlpool vmw? |
Post# 1118220 , Reply# 15   5/24/2021 at 21:22 (1,058 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Post# 1118223 , Reply# 16   5/24/2021 at 21:30 (1,058 days old) by agiflow ()   |   | |
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GELaundry4ever maybe this is a help ? www.automaticwasher.org/c... |
Post# 1118225 , Reply# 17   5/24/2021 at 22:22 (1,058 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)   |   | |
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it helps. Just wondered what GE called their version of the vmw washer. |
Post# 1118232 , Reply# 18   5/25/2021 at 00:42 (1,058 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)   |   | |
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Post# 1118477 , Reply# 19   5/27/2021 at 12:18 (1,056 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)   |   | |
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Guess it does have something to do with the fact that gerboxes are expensive to make. So as there are now available relatively cheap motors that can do an alternate back and forth they use these, not to mention a gearbox always tend to be more noisy, even the quietest one. Also, water leaks can mess them badly, oil leaks can damage floors, and rebuilding one Simply ain't so easy, and getting one NIB installed is sadly more than often so dear that is just not worth it for most. Wringer washers or agitator semi automatic machines, where they are still sold, also got rid of gearboxes. And it appears that the new motors can actually give a good back and forth almost comparable to the one a gearbox of old gave. Not too long strokes or non sense. I quite fancy these, if they made a modern automatic with this kind of washing action-agitation, good tub brake system, no dubbed temps and all the way fill I would definitely buy one even though it doesn't have a gearbox. In my opinion: Could be way cheaper to make than a TC5 and still wash well and give out what people want, perhaps give a faster spin too as it doesn't have to spin the oil filled transmission along with the tub.
Under the skirt, as simple as it gets:
This post was last edited 05/27/2021 at 13:07 |
Post# 1118488 , Reply# 20   5/27/2021 at 14:52 (1,056 days old) by agiflow ()   |   | |
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The second video with that very wringer looking roto swirl looks pretty decent. Is this driven by an alternating motor ? |
Post# 1118489 , Reply# 21   5/27/2021 at 14:55 (1,056 days old) by agiflow ()   |   | |
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Nevermind..duh. Helps to read Pat..🙄 |
Post# 1118507 , Reply# 23   5/27/2021 at 18:26 (1,055 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)   |   | |
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Patrick, yes. All these Koblenz and "lavadoras redondas" in general have an alternating motor. The newer koblenz have this spiralator agi indeed works Just like the one of the, easy. Easy was very known in Mexico much that today you still find the Brand (rebranded stuff by Mabe IIRC) as it was big there! Probably more than it was in the US Guess folks demanded an agitator like the old easy machines and came up with this one in the new Koblenz
The video got cartoons playing and kids in the background but machine sound is noticeable, anyway is very quiet.. The one with the whirlpool new surgilator-like agitator also is doing a good job to me. There is more rollover with the spiralator as it is what the spiralator was famous for.... |
Post# 1118547 , Reply# 24   5/28/2021 at 02:38 (1,055 days old) by Adam-aussie-vac (Canberra ACT)   |   | |
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Where on earth can I get one of these? |
Post# 1118566 , Reply# 25   5/28/2021 at 10:03 (1,055 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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Post# 1118570 , Reply# 26   5/28/2021 at 10:39 (1,055 days old) by agiflow ()   |   | |
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That agitator in that 24" DD is the same one I am waiting for for the Estate DD I picked up last month. Been waiting over a month now because of backorders. |
Post# 1118589 , Reply# 27   5/28/2021 at 15:08 (1,055 days old) by GELaundry4ever (Nacogdoches, TX, USA)   |   | |
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that Whirlpool discontinued these. Most of the Maytag units are direct drives built by Whirlpool shortly before they went to the belt drive design. |
Post# 1118677 , Reply# 28   5/29/2021 at 06:52 (1,054 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)   |   | |
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Post# 1118678 , Reply# 29   5/29/2021 at 06:58 (1,054 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)   |   | |
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Post# 1118750 , Reply# 30   5/30/2021 at 02:32 (1,053 days old) by Adam-aussie-vac (Canberra ACT)   |   | |
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But I do appreciate you sharing the Australian direct drive washer |
Post# 1118753 , Reply# 31   5/30/2021 at 04:49 (1,053 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)   |   | |
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Oh, Indeed I was doubting what you were referring to, but as you did not say say anything to Louis then I assumed you meant a DD. Anyway, these kind of washers called "round washers" are common in Mexico, they got rid of the wringer as most people now use a spinner instead, as said over there Easy twin tubs were-are very famous too . Anyway it appears that even Walmart in Mexico have them and cost is about 3500pesos which is around 175 USD..
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Post# 1118754 , Reply# 32   5/30/2021 at 04:49 (1,053 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)   |   | |
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Post# 1118759 , Reply# 33   5/30/2021 at 06:35 (1,053 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK)   |   | |
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Post# 1118763 , Reply# 35   5/30/2021 at 07:30 (1,053 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)   |   | |
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The concept is to have a washer that just wash. Guess that whoever gets them is someone already owning a separate spinner. I also guess some are attracted to the idea of saving on hot water and detergent for more loads so maybe they do have an automatic that just use to rinse and spin. The people in the video do have a spinner for example you can spot a big self pumping spinner on the left. There are always twin tubs for that matter and if someone had to spend more money guess would end buying an automatic all at once...
Said this, there is still a pretty flourish market of Easy TT's down in Mexico both for parts and refurbished machines because people as I said liked them very much
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Post# 1118771 , Reply# 36   5/30/2021 at 09:45 (1,053 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)   |   | |
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I guess you can't have everything. Koblenz makes twin tubs, but they don't come with agitators but with pulsators.
koblenz.com.mx/productos/lavador... |
Post# 1118785 , Reply# 37   5/30/2021 at 13:55 (1,053 days old) by Adam-aussie-vac (Canberra ACT)   |   | |
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Come with pulsators is instead of agitators because you would get more washing action with an agitator than you would with a pulsator right? |
Post# 1118854 , Reply# 38   5/31/2021 at 06:49 (1,052 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)   |   | |
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Because they probably have them made in China imported and branded. Like 99% of TT's today available on market. At best they are assembled but made with chinese parts and designs. And for some reasons Asia is pulsator country instead of Agitators. I also am not a fan of pulsators. There were twin tubs sold recently in America with an agitator. I recall Danby TT's, folks at Danby probably specifically requested a twin tub with an agitator to satisfy Americans, so what they did in the factory was simply replacing a pulsator and put an agitator. And put shorter back and forth but that still is too long and just not a proper back and forth like Koblenz With those long strokes what you get a lot is clothes wrapping up on the agitator and flush around like that. Had they the agitation of a Koblenz it'd have been a better machine IMO. Same is for portable Danby agitator top loaders, I think that with the agitator they of course do better than with a pulsator, but if they had a shorter stroke it would have been excellent. Besides, they are not total junk but they could be a lot better. Looks like current Danby now have pulsators IIRC |
Post# 1118855 , Reply# 39   5/31/2021 at 06:55 (1,052 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)   |   | |
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Post# 1118857 , Reply# 40   5/31/2021 at 07:17 (1,052 days old) by Kenmoreguy89 (Valenza Piemonte, Italy- Soon to be US immigrant.)   |   | |
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Post# 1118892 , Reply# 41   5/31/2021 at 14:46 (1,052 days old) by Egress (Oregon)   |   | |
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damn that portable washer rolls clothes over super fast |