Thread Number: 87463  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Niagra Portable Washer
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Post# 1120217   6/14/2021 at 02:04 (348 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

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Has any member tried this washer yet? How is it? How much water per cycle? ARe the dispensers automatic? Whats the tumble sequence like? There doesn't seem to be a user manual on the site.

 

 

laundry-alternative.com/collecti...


Post# 1120250 , Reply# 1   6/14/2021 at 11:44 (348 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
7.5 CF Washer ????

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I about fell over laughing at that claim, I think they meant 1.5 CF Maybe.

 

John L.


Post# 1120252 , Reply# 2   6/14/2021 at 12:01 (348 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

I was sure John would come and say something negative... Why that?

Equivalent to, not that it has 7.5 cu ft.

As DOE doesn't have an specific standard to test HATL semi-automatic washers and as capacity is usually described in cu ft, the alternative found was using "equivalent capacity". Personally I don't agree with that idea of "equivalent to" but that's not me who made this decision. We're actually lucky to have them "creating an alternative testing" instead of just saying "it's too different from the average washers we have on the market, we won't even consider it, you can't make it at all"

One thing people seem to forget is, here in the USA, DOE says something, you do it, you don't ask, you don't argue, you don't debate or discuss. If they ask me to hang a watermelon on my neck, I'll do it with a huge smile (even dying inside) because it just needs one of those "lovely individuals" unhappy to wipe the company off the market.



Post# 1120253 , Reply# 3   6/14/2021 at 12:05 (348 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

Being on the backstage isn't always easy. Internally, I'm super happy with the company and the design freedom I have. The problem is what comes from above (government level). There are zillions of things that both the company and I disagree, but we MUST do it the same way because we need to meet the "federal standards".

Post# 1120254 , Reply# 4   6/14/2021 at 12:09 (348 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

By the way,,, the "New" Niagara is coming soon...

We were FORCED to change it... because 3oz of water will make an absurd difference in the world. I literally had to recalibrate the pressure switches to reduce THREE f-WORD OUNCES. That's less than a cup of water.

And that just because somebody at certain department in the government woke up one day and said "I'm going to save the world if I do that" (and maybe get a promotion)


Post# 1120258 , Reply# 5   6/14/2021 at 12:30 (348 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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Thomas, I don't understand the DOE reasoning on all of that.  3 oz. reduction ... but we have the SQ TC5 and WP/MT commercial VMW models that don't have a user water level control and a minimum level that fills the tub halfway for even a single item.  WTH??


Post# 1120259 , Reply# 6   6/14/2021 at 12:43 (348 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

That's because the test is ONLY at full capacity...

Who creates those standards and all that regulation knows NOTHING about laundry.

It's all politics.



Post# 1120261 , Reply# 7   6/14/2021 at 12:51 (348 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
Ahh, so.  There's a lot of that "not knowing" goes around on everything.


Post# 1120272 , Reply# 8   6/14/2021 at 14:01 (348 days old) by RevvinKevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land)        
I have one!

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I will dust it off, hook it up and make a video when I get a chance.

I will say it does wash really well, but I much prefer a fully automatic washer (that spins) .... which is why it sits here doing the “dust collection test”.


Post# 1120285 , Reply# 9   6/14/2021 at 15:19 (348 days old) by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.)        
Thomas

ea56's profile picture
your ingenuity and tenacity impresses me.

This little semi automatic could be a great asset to many in the world that have limited means, small apartments and little water available for laundry. Good for you!

And I appreciated your explanation of the DOE requirements for the size and water usage of this machine. I hope you will be successful in your endeavor.

Eddie


Post# 1120291 , Reply# 10   6/14/2021 at 15:36 (348 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

Hi Eddie

The Niagara is a monster success. near its 2nd anniversary.

The pandemic may have helped us, people bought washers like crazy (still buying) so it's hard to say exactly if it was because of "it being it" or because "it was available".

I'm often surprised by consumers emailing us and telling they made a review. Those are way more reliable because they have absolutely no relation to the company at all. I knew they were made after they were published.






Post# 1120293 , Reply# 11   6/14/2021 at 15:51 (348 days old) by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.)        

ea56's profile picture
Thomas, after I made my post I read the reviews of the Niagara and I was impressed! Sure seems like you have a successful product. Good for you!
Eddie


Post# 1120330 , Reply# 12   6/15/2021 at 02:11 (347 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

Btw, we NEVER touch the reviews, different from a certain company that was deleting negative reviews and even banning authorized dealers.


Post# 1120390 , Reply# 13   6/15/2021 at 17:55 (347 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        
New Niagra

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When does the new Niagra hit the market?

 

@RevinKevin: That would be epic! Also if you can get pics of the inside guts I would really appreciate you for that. :) 


Post# 1120393 , Reply# 14   6/15/2021 at 18:04 (347 days old) by agiflow ()        

Does this machine have typical front load baffles in it?

Post# 1120431 , Reply# 15   6/16/2021 at 07:28 (346 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture

Looking at the linked video, and I could be wrong, it sounds like the tub reverses direction every 45 seconds?

 

I still don't agree with filling without tumbling, as the guy brought up that if the drain hose is to low it will result in infinite water waste. I like timed fills, they greatly simplify things including the wiring in the timer. 


Post# 1120442 , Reply# 16   6/16/2021 at 11:34 (346 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

Timed fill

NO WAY AT ALL!

Even worse in a washer that relies on load absortion to select the water level, like any front load washer.

It tops off the water level many times during the cycle because the load absorbs water.

Even worse being portable and with a huge variation on waterflow (gpm) from faucet to faucet.

Now imagine telling people they have to spend time adjusting the fill timer if nowadays we have customers that complain that it's a dreadful chore to remove the shipping bracket (just unscrew a plate on the bottom of a spin dryer, done in 5 seconds) and ask "why do you protect it for shipping if you have a warranty? If it breaks, who cares? You'll have to replace it anyway, so why do I have to be disturbed by another step when unboxing the product?"


Post# 1120460 , Reply# 17   6/16/2021 at 14:37 (346 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        
Timed Fill

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I'm not talking about literally a dedicated fill increment and then switching to tumble, instead I'm thinking of tumbling and filling at the same time. Pressure switch cuts off but the fill contact in the timer remains closed the whole wash and rinse cycle. 

 

The way I see it this has many advantages, including acting as a backup should the pressure switch fail (16 minutes of over flow vs indefinitely) or drain hose kept to low.


Post# 1120512 , Reply# 18   6/17/2021 at 02:24 (345 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

Got it.

That adds cost to the timer, in a market that we fight for CENTS.


Post# 1120521 , Reply# 19   6/17/2021 at 05:34 (345 days old) by henene4 (Emden (Germany))        
Just an idea

I was thinking:
The machine goes from wash straight to rinse, right?

Dunno if it would be much work given it appears just to be a clockwork timer, but having a kind of AutoRinse switch would seem a natural progression for the next version.

Idea would be that if the button is pressed, the machine would advance straight through to the rinses from the wash.

If it isn't pressed, the machine would pause after the wash drain.
That would allow you to grab the laundry and give it an interim spin improofing rinsing results for loads like towels etc. without waiting next to the machine.

Should be a pretty simple add-on to add another stop position with an override switch.


Post# 1120523 , Reply# 20   6/17/2021 at 05:53 (345 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        
Cost

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My ignorance is showing. How does that add cost to the timer? My understanding is that it removes one bypass contact in the timer and the extra power rail for the fill phase.


Post# 1120648 , Reply# 21   6/18/2021 at 02:02 (344 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

@henene

There's a joke we used to say in college.

Americans made the best intentions because of laziness. Remote control, power windows, automatic transmission, etc.

Even dosing the detergent is a "dreadful chore", that's why pods became so popular here.

People wouldn't really care too much about that feature. Think.. OMG, I'll have to unload the washer, load the spin dryer, switch the load back to the washer, wait for the rinse, then transfer to the spin dryer... NO WAY! I don't have time for that, I got things to do!"

Living here for almost 6 years, I learned that the "laziness" isn't exactly laziness, but lack of time. Culturally, the pace Americans live is way faster than Europeans or South Americans. (Maybe that explains why this is the country of Burnout Syndrome). Some people have schedules so tight that Americans make plans according to the season like "next summer I'll fix that washer in my collection".

You can get very decent rinses in the Niagara, no intermediate spin needed. Just use HE detergent and don't overdose. Simple as that.


Post# 1120649 , Reply# 22   6/18/2021 at 02:10 (344 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

@chetlaham

Any changes involves time and time is money.

There's my time designing (counted in minutes), then testing, validating. As it's a change, it's considered a different model, so it has to be tested again by UL and DOE. (That costs a fortune). Then there's the adjustments that have to be made at the timer supplier it will cost them money and of course they will put that cost in our price).

Something that sounds like "oh, it's just 10 cents more" ends up adding 30 or 40 dollars to the retail price.

And we're in a market that $1 (literally ONE DOLLAR) can be the difference between selling thousands of units or selling 10 units per year.

We had a model that was super nice, selling amazingly well (super compact automatic washer). I had to make a change on it... it would be so expensive to make that silly change that we decided to kill that model and release its "second generation" that was a completely different washer. (Silk Lux)


Post# 1120658 , Reply# 23   6/18/2021 at 06:33 (344 days old) by chetlaham (United States)        

chetlaham's profile picture

I'm curious about your timer supplier. How do you work with them? How do you indicate what timer sequence you need, increments, ect? Midwest Timer?

 

 

I feel your pain, but I am also outraged at DOE, UL and all the unfair regulations you have to work with.

 

Trust me that one day these entities will not longer exist. And you and I will be free to do what we please.

 

You can't do revision changes without changing the model number entirely like Whirlpool? 

 

 


Post# 1120663 , Reply# 24   6/18/2021 at 07:08 (344 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK)        
Thomas here's an idea....

ozzie908's profile picture
With your Niagara washer why not add a spinner to the side of it in the same cabinet obviously a bit wider that could be used in a similar way to the AEG Turnamat it had a drum on the wash side that went back and forth and when it had finished rinsing you just had to lift the wet clothing into the spinner, Am sure a drain pump on the spinner would not add too much cost and would save the user having to move things around too much as the spinning is not done to the end you could arrange it so it drains into the wash tub and then into the sink.

Austin


CLICK HERE TO GO TO ozzie908's LINK


Post# 1120716 , Reply# 25   6/18/2021 at 16:40 (344 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

@ozzie

Volume restrictions

Shipping would skyrocket and the price would be like 2 or 3 times higher than shipping a washer and a spin dryer in two boxes.

Also, storage... ti would be too wide, wouldn't fit in many closets and also a hassle to move back and forth from the storage.

Then, third issue... bathrooms getting smaller every day. We had customers returning the niagara as it is now simply because it didn't fit in front of the sink. Some bathrooms are now so small you can't even bend to spit the toothpaste without hitting the wall behind you. Here in Los Angeles, for example, there are some modern apartment buildings that look like stacked RVs so small they are... actually, their bathrooms are so tiny that make an RV bathroom look like a palace.


Post# 1139345 , Reply# 26   1/14/2022 at 16:41 by sunspot42 (San Francisco)        

Yeah, do not add a spinner to the side of the Niagara. It's almost too large for my apartment as it is - I can just barely stash it in my broom closet. Also it would make the unit a lot heavier, which would make it more difficult for me to lift it into my bath tub, where I run my Niagara. That way I don't have to worry about leaks or anything - it all just drains away.

I did have one idea though. It looks like you've got a new top-loader coming, one that doesn't have a spin cycle. Might be cool if there were a companion spinner designed to sit down inside of it for storage. That way the spinner wouldn't take up any additional storage space...


Post# 1139359 , Reply# 27   1/14/2022 at 20:18 by bradfordwhite (East Coast, U.S.)        

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That's an awesome product.

I agree with keeping the units separate. That way, worst case scenario, one appliance should break one can replace it and it has no impact on the other.

It's like the spinner the guy in the video has. He said he's had it for 14 years.

I've tried those LA spinners and they work great.


Post# 1140383 , Reply# 28   1/25/2022 at 23:07 by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula)        

Yep, the new washer is coming really soon and it's called Poseidon.

It has a real agitator (not an impeller with a corkscrew-like auger), you can fill it with water up to the top and it's as close as possible to a maytag wringer, given the modern world limitations.

I wish I could have made it even better and more powerful but you know... DOE keeps my hands tied.

Don't expect it to be the holy grail of the washers. This is actually the BOL of a series of old school agitator washers. The TOL, which is much bigger and have a waaaay more powerful motor will come later this year.

Later this year we will also release the fully auto HATL washer. It's 9kg capacity, has an internal heater, all stainless steel (drum and tub), inverter motor and has other surprise features.


We also released recently the PuriFI. It's a super compact washer that has even a Cy le to wash diapers. It has an internal heater, it fills up to the top, stainless steel drum and impeller, badass motor, several cycles, and real spray rinses be a use I am pissed off with DOE and decided to add a series of spray rinses together with two deep rinses. (5 deep rinses in the diaper cycle).

The PuriFI can reach sanitizing temperatures and will freeze the timer until the temperature is reached. Because of EPA, we could not use the name "sanitary" for the cycle. Tech I ally, we can't even claim it cleans the clothes because after the pandemic started, EPA is very strict and only if we pay several thousands of dollars to have a washing machine certified as a "thermomechanical pesticide device", we can not say it sanitized.

We could even do that, but then DOE freaks out because saying "Sanitary" would incentivate users to use hot wash.


Post# 1140395 , Reply# 29   1/26/2022 at 06:54 by PinkPower4 (USA)        
Will these models also be available in the US?

Hmmm. With my kids getting older I wouldn't need as large of a washer. Would be cool if I could get one of these and just use the Maytag mvwp575gw for larger bulkier items to extend its life as it works really well!

I took a look at the PuriFI. I am guessing it can be used for regular clothes too. This would be awesome for baby clothes and smaller loads. How many cu. ft. is it? I'm trying to compare the load size of it against my Magic Chef. Unlike my Magic Chef, does this actually fill at least 3/4 full of water? My Magic Chef only fills half tub at highest setting. I can add water, but I don't go more than 3/4 full.

Posidon is interesting, but I'd probably be interested in the TOL version. Depends. Old-style may be a plus for me if it means more mechanical vs digital. Is there any difference in the wash action? How many cu. ft. are they going to be? If that is not available, about how many lbs. of dry clothes can be put in them? Will these REQUIRE a spin dryer?

It looks like I will be able to order any of these current and new models in the US off of your website?

The Magic Chef exceeded my expectations. The impeller does a really good job with smaller loads and smaller items. Its downfall, of course, would be bulkier items that can't turn over.

BTW. I bought a Ninja spin dryer from your website a few months ago. Awesome customer service. Received very quick and undamaged. While my Panda works well, it is loud. My dryer is old. Since I plan on replacing it only with one of two specific models right now, I wanted to make sure I could spin dry until my model was available. With prices going up, I knew I was going to replace the Panda with a Ninja when the time comes anyway, but I'll continue to use the Panda as long as it works. I have to say the Ninja spin dryer wins my overall first choice since both are priced about the same. It does balance better and is quieter. The design works better for me. I just set a timer on my watch, so no issue there. Surprising to me since it is plastic vs the mostly metal construction of Panda. Honestly, I was impressed!

I admit I've been thinking of getting the SQ TC when it's available in my area again. I do a lot more lot more smaller loads now and I'm guessing the Magic Chef won't last that much longer. I hope this comes out before I have to make my decision. Even so, the Magic Chef is a great niche washer, and I'm not sure I won't replace it with another similar (like one of the Laundry Alternative models) when the time comes. But. I'd rather extend the life of my Maytag and get one of these new models for my smaller loads.

Thanks for the great info!



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