A while back I made a thread asking why US DW weren't simpler. I finally found a video of exactly what I had in mind:

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I can't help but be smittened by the simplicity and durability of the internals of this machine. Commercial grade metal timer, shaded pole main motor, chunky drain pump motor, heated sump, and simple circuits. No electronics, diverters, inverter motors, UAP pump mechanisms, extra buttons... Just straight up simplicity. The sump even appears to be molded into the tub- brilliant way of reducing leaks.    

Absolutely! You can even see the silverware basket moving about. All done with a simple shaded pole motor.

It puzzles me why US manufacturers never used these concepts in the past, or why they bother with using brush motors or inverters today.     

This DW would only hold about 1/3 of the dishes of a regular 24'DW while using more water and electricity and making a lot of noise.

I would also estimate looking at the construction it would probably only last a few hundred loads before you had multiple failures with this DW.

So it should be pretty obvious why DWs like this are not built and sold in more advanced countries.

Climate Change Is Real.

John L.

I should have been more specific, but I didn't want to complicate things. Several things stand out:

1) The motor is not an inverter or brushed like on new GE machines.

2) half a gallons of water is not retained in the sump like on old GE machines. 

3) no complex UAP mechanisms like on D&M machines. 

4) Plenty of water pressure and cleaning despite such a low output motor.

5) No extra buttons, wiring or so forth.

Its just two simple line frequency induction pumps and a manual clean filter which leads to stellar performance, less energy, long life and at less cost.

Yet you had US machines like D&M, GE, Hobart, Westinghouse, BOL Whirlpools, ect that had limited or no filtration, giant motors, water hold over, multi level pumps, high volume rate, more water and power and yet left particles behind- in general.

Of course you had the total self cleaning filtering machines with grinders like Maytag, Whirlpool, latter Kitchen-Aids so the extra complexity and motor power can be forgiven on the account the user doesn't have to clean the filter - but none the less this convenience comes at many costs.

Also, the sumps in these Brazil machines has a grate and filter which would stop large metal objects from falling through melting the plastic. 

I think John's (combo's) attitude answers the question originally posed. In the US there is so much Chauvinism, exceptionalism and arrogance displayed that any alternative ideas are rejected by default. With that said Brazil is one of the most advanced and energy independent countries on earth.   

Hi Thomas, I am entitled to offer my option on any appliance matters that I please, And I know that you have never offered an option about anything on this site, LOL

And I did not say anything negative about Brazil, but while you brought it up I am tired of you bashing US agencies like DOE, Large majorities of Americans approve of and vote for better energy efficiency including a majority here on AW.

I have spent my life promoting better energy efficiency and even consulted with experts at DOE etc with some of my ideas to improve reliability and energy efficiency in new appliances.

I stand by my comments about this POS compact DW, it is very obvious that it is a substandard cheaply built DW that is not designed to last long [ plastic zip-ties for hose clamps ]hot running shaded pole main pump motor I would be shocked if Bosch really sells this DW with their name on it and would like to know where they sell it with the Bosch name  on it.

Thomas, where is the cycle counter on this DW and what is the maximum number of cycles it can record ?, Can the consumer see this information ?

John L.

@Agiflow: Whirlpool uses their VMW system on many, many South American washers, and the rest is basically knock off clones of the VMW system. You can't bash South American machines without bashing the VMW system- though I understand you are referring to the agitation itself vs the drive mechanism as a whole or over-all.

@John: While your reply is not directed at me, if this substandard design with 2 small 60Hz motors, molded sump and manual clean fine filter had been implemented on BOL D&M, Maytag, Hotpoint, GE, ect machines clean-ability would not have only shot up, but water and energy consumption would have dropped by more than 1/5 in addition to noise. Ignore the zip ties, they could have easily be changed to hose clamps in US production. 

What blows my mind is that the US until the late 2000s produced a machine that literally designed their drain valves as such to keep 1/4 of a gallon of water in the sump and pump body, and prior to that over a half gallon if not more. People complaining about yibble left on everything, yet GE and others just laughing about it. A few giant holes in the spray arm (so as to not clog over unfiltered food bits) which through lots of water around but with little force or strategic planning.

I also fail to see how a shaded pole motor can not be designed to last long, and as far as I'm concerned that permanent magnet drain pump looks like a US clone in many way and probably is consider DW pumps are made by a select few companies like Hanning.

I figured. Sorry for being corrective, that would be my bad. :)

Thanks :) Clean and rinse ability is directly tied to water carry over. I've read several DW engineering books which stressed reducing water carry over in every way possible going as far as including it in their equations which makes sense. What GE and others were thinking I have no idea. 

@Thomoas: isn't the world wash mechanism almost identical to the VMW?

I love reading and learning about stuff like this, especially culture norms and views on the same concept. FWIW, I know many people in my family (and outside of it) who refuse to load dishes in to any DW without first being rinsed on the account that their first BOL machine left particles behind. 

Which makes me want to rant how much I despise low end GE, D&M, Whirlpool, Maytag and other DWs that never had a fine filter inside of them. The fall out is still continuing to this day.  

I never understood why they couldn't just stick a damn removable filter in the sump.

Beautiful machine for those that had a filter in the back. The rest are a perfect example of hubris, insanity, causal indifference and a deliberate insult to the human species. Just thinking about them makes my blood boil, despite their simplicity. 

Why so?

The design is fundamentally flawed. The use or a rubber vs molded sump means the machine has to retain half a gallon of water inside it at all times. Made worse by a wide pump designed for volume vs pressure. That half a gallon then increases the  water needed to dilute the carry over. Because the heater runs continuously in the wash, I've seen the sump literally turn to mush over the years but not the permatuff tub and door liner.

The shredder was literally a single steal wire that would break off after a few years of use. This would then allow debris to clog up the impeller grate, while letting things like small seeds through which would sometimes result in the drain gate not closing all the way gradually letting all the water or the spray arm getting stuck from a seed mid cycle... nothing like a 45 minute main wash where the water leaves letting the dishes bake.

Which takes me to the drain flapper, because draining involved blocking the exit, it resulted in high pump pressure where over time the drain valve would start to leak. Also I have seen the flapper itself deform. 

While the mid 80s potscrubbers often lasted 30-40 years, the BOL-MOL models were awful performers and used tons of energy while leaving detergent residue behind.  

The above 2 pump system would have solved all these problems.

Whirlpool Never Built A DW Without A Filter,

Neither did Kitchenaid Or Maytag for that matter.

And I have no idea what continuing fallout this is causing, LOL

John 

The Duro-wash mechanism lacks a filter, which is why Whirlpool latter came out with the "soil settler" mechanism which really didn't do much. The free ball that comes from inside it is fun to play with however. 

Maytag produced many budget machines, one which even tried to mimic GE, all of which had sub par filtration.  

The fall out is people pre-washing dishes having dealt with such awful devices.

WPs Dura-Wash DWs had a grinder and the soil settling are was extremely effective, try putting a few glasses up right next time you run your DW and see what you catch.

MTs basic design had both a filter and a grinder.

The real reason so many people pre-rinse their dishes is because they don't want to clean the stinking filter and they don't like having their DW stink to high heaven if they don't clean the filter almost ever use of the DW.

I have had hundreds of customers over the years tell me they would rather rinse the dishes than clean the filter, and if you just put in a simple screen all the food stays behind and continues dissolving even iron the final rinse water, Yuck, 

Don't quit your day job,

John 

There is no grinder in the Dura-wash wash system. Take a look at the pump and parts list. The impeller has a metal cap on it which is pressed down by the threaded plastic hold down piece. No macerator exits what so ever.

I've tried the Dura-wash system, it doesn't work. It leave particles behind unlike the Powerclean. 

I'm glad you can admit that customers in part are part the energy problem- the same one you claim to care about. The way I figure it is if you do not want an auto clean filter, there should be a manual clean filter. There is no point in having a DW if you have to rinse the dishes because 1) there is no filter to catch anything 2) people don't want to clean a simple filter as with a dryer. 

Ew is filling a cup of water only to find a piece of melted foot stuck to it. 

Even better! GE and the rest had no excuse. 

The WP Dura Wash DWs have a very tough and sharp main wash impeller hat grinds food very well, Try reading the manual.

Self-Cleaning DW Filters, Agreed Louis nearly all better DWs today do a good job of keeping their filters clean if you use a proper combination of detergents for local water conditions etc.

Chester is talking about just having a screen in the bottom that catches nearly everything and has to be cleaned every load, Yuck.

John L.

What limited grinding the durawash impeller does by coincidence ends up redepositing all over the inside of the machine. The manual can say or claim anything, marketing hubris is one heck of a drug. 

I don't see a dura wash mechanism over the powerclean your Kitchen, both us know it leaves particles behind.

Self cleaning or not, a fine filter in BOL machines would have saved water and electricity. Don't like having to clean it? Buy a more expensive machine.  

These had a filter screen in the back that caught food particles. Absent on GSD500, 600, 640 and a few others.

The two wing macerator came latter, the originals were a single steal wire. 

If these machines used a separate drain motor water usage would have been cut by half and clean-ability going up. 

GE dishwashers that had an aux pump on the sump were able to go from 3 to two final rinses and reduce the number of prewashes for the same cycle.

Interestingly, when GE went from their plastisol to their permtuff models reducing the size of the sump (in comparison) they went from 3 final rinses at about 2.5 gallons per charge to two rinses at 1.8 gallons per charge. However, that did not prove to be enough as they went back to 3 rinses in the latter 80s- one 1.3 gallon and two 1.75 gallon charges.       

In the 90s they reduced the size of the sump boot and pump body again going to 3, 1.3 gallon final rinses.

Yup, I guess to mimic the EU design?