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Thread Number: 8757
Hot/Cold filling |
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Post# 164406 , Reply# 1 11/1/2006 at 12:19 (6,383 days old) by toggleswitch  (New York City, NY) |
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I am not sure that a cold-water DW fill provides any benefit. Then again, as a product of my zip code(postal code) and the prevailing 110v here, chances are we'd never be ABLE to use a cold water fill. So it is a moot point for us, really. In terms of the washer, a cool pre-wash followed by a warm or hot fill seems like it would work just as well to me as a cold fill that is heated gradually (VERY gradually!) Am I wrong here? Besides why use electricity to heat water, when a gas-fired or oil-fired central hot water heater is frequently available? But here is the best bit of sarcasm (*SNICKER*) that I can muster up: WHAT ELSE could mannies (manufacturers) POSSIBLY do to make a cycle/programme take longer? | ||
| Post# 164416 , Reply# 2 11/1/2006 at 12:52 (6,383 days old) by whirlcool (Just North Of Houston, Texas) | ||
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I would be very worried about a DW that would start with a cold fill cycle. The glasses would then be chilled and then to have a hot water wash come along...I think you would have glass breakage. I think the hotter, the better for sanitizing reasons. | ||
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Post# 164430 , Reply# 5 11/1/2006 at 14:01 (6,383 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY) |
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Who you calling *myth* (miss) LOL ? | ||
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Post# 164437 , Reply# 6 11/1/2006 at 14:20 (6,383 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY) |
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... and the first fill in a DW WILL be cool water that has been sitting in the lines. But I think these issues [hot vs. cold] fill are cultural /electrical system repercussions / and LEARNED ways of thinking. I'm not sure that either perspective is right or wrong.... it's just different. Nathan: ~Even on 240V. Most houses in Australia have storage tanks for hotwater which is heated off-peak. Little tid-bits like this that are nothing to you, are precious to those of us who just would have no way of knowing such facts. THANK YOU for the info. | ||
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Post# 164455 , Reply# 7 11/1/2006 at 15:39 (6,383 days old) by dadoes (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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I effectively use cold water fills with my DishDrawer. Haven't had any glass breakage. 110v manages to heat to 163°F in reasonable time (but only 0.8 gals per fill). Occasionally on loads that are more soiled than usual I'll run the kitchen sink faucet until the flow gets warmed so the first fill has some heat to better deal with grease. I think manufs that specify 120°F minimum water supply are aware that the incoming flow won't be at that temp, but it will at least be warmer/hotter than full-on cold water. | ||
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Post# 164500 , Reply# 12 11/1/2006 at 20:24 (6,382 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Read on a UK washing machine repair site, that cold filling does make sense if one has a tankless hot water system, that is hot water is not being heated anyway. However as with the previous poster, if one has a tank hot water system the water is being heated regardless, so using that hot water does not consume that much if any energy. When doing a warm water wash, used to let my Miele fill with cold and heat to 100F, but when Kw rates started to hit 24 cents, cut that out and fill with warm water from the taps. The washer clicks off the theromstate almost at once telling me the water is 100F. L. | ||
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Post# 164530 , Reply# 13 11/1/2006 at 22:09 (6,382 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY) |
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So how's this for a pointless tangent?
I am with you Launderess, I do believe that cold vs. hot fill is a function of the hot water heating system type avaialble and generally found in one's area. BTW: regarding- One litre of water weighs 1000g or 1Kg. A gallon of water weighs about 8.345404 pounds. There are four quarts to a gallon. There are four cups to a quart Therefore there are 16 cups of water in a gallon. So, 8.345404 pounds divided by 64 cups means water weighs 0.52159 (nearly 0.50) pounds per cup. With 16 ounces per pound, a cup of water, then is circa half a pound, being 8 ounces. Interesting to see where fluid ounces probably comes from, eh? Cool, huh? What I find interesting is the need to FERVENTLY believe that a cold fill is better, period. Well maybe it is in some theoretical way, but as we say here "Time is money" and "Lost time can never be found" so since a hot water fill is faster... YAY! | ||
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Post# 164539 , Reply# 14 11/1/2006 at 23:05 (6,382 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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No Combos | ||
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Post# 164540 , Reply# 15 11/1/2006 at 23:06 (6,382 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Whoops | ||
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Post# 164587 , Reply# 17 11/2/2006 at 08:42 (6,382 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY) |
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I am thank you very much! In the south of this country (nearer the hot equator) I believe hot water haters of the storage-type get smaller! In my father's 5-2-2 apt (5 rooms, 2 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms) in Florida (WAY south) there is a 20 gallon (80L) electric hot water heater. TINY! But then again, he does not have a washer or a dishwasher! I suppose the incoming water is much hotter to start with due to a hot climate, so it is of sufficient size for those conditions. Here in New York City, a MUCH colder climate, the "recovery" (speed of heating) and the temperature rise needed (to get the water to 120 F (50C +/-) would make an electric heater [much slower recovery than fossil-fueled one] of that size a mere toy. Thank you so very much for the insight! Much appreciated. Regards, Steve | ||
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Post# 164597 , Reply# 18 11/2/2006 at 08:55 (6,382 days old) by toggleswitch (New York City, NY) |
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sticky *e* key | ||
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Post# 165120 , Reply# 21 11/4/2006 at 16:57 (6,380 days old) by launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Miele washers on 220/240v power can heat even the most frigid tap cold water to boiling in a short amount of time. They always have been able to do so, but the design was altered by Miele awhile back in response to consumer complaints that the water heated too fast for enzyme detergents to work properly. Those were probably the days before "Fraken-Enzymes" that work in everything from cold to hot water. Natural enzymes tend to have a sweet spot of 100F (body temp) to 120F, and are killed off at about 140F and certianly by 200F water temps. Though there are natural enzymes which are perfectly happy at extreme temps, and can be found living in places like hot springs. Some European washers such as those by AEG added a "Bio" cycle button to the control section. When this button was selected the washer would "pause" heating water at around 100F for awhile before proceeding onto hotter water temps. This gave the enzymes a chance to work before being killed off one presumes. All this palaver is part of the infamous "profile" washing so many people, especially those over on THS rave about. Theory beind the process is that cold water prevented certian stains from setting and or flushed away, warm water for enzymes, and hot to boiling water to activate the often used perborate bleach. Detergent formulations have changed over the years, with new types of enzymes and bleach activators that allowed boil wash bleaching to take place at temps of 120F to 100F. EU detergents are changing again as perborate/borates/borax is removed from laundry products by EU mandate due to environmental concerns. Borates are harmul to plants and thus the waste water from laundry can do damage. Peeped a box of Persil the other day and indeed perborate bleach and activator seems to have been replaced by percarbonate bleach. Percarbonate bleach works at all water temps without an activator, but best at 100F and above. Cooler water requires long contact times, but will bleach. In theory long as today's European washers have the same heating power as their older cousins, they should have faster cycles as less water is being used for washes. Subsequently less water needs to be heated. However think as part of cost cutting design, heating power is being cut back somewhat, which in theory due to smaller amounts of water being used makes sense. My Miele W770 has two 1500 heaters, and am here to tell you it can "boil" the roughly 6 gallons of water used for normal cottons quite quickly. L. | ||
| Post# 165134 , Reply# 24 11/4/2006 at 18:27 (6,379 days old) by aquarius1984 (Planet earth) | ||
my Hotpoint
and mums wm62 identical to Jons mums did a great job on hot and cold fill. I prefer it actually. My chef whites were always amazingly white and protein stains such as blood vanished. The house where i live now has a combi boiler next to the washer and barely half a litre of cold water runs into the machine before the hot enters. I guess my experiences are the flip side LOL. But in general im not too bothered about cold fill only machines. Its one less pipe to worry about when disconnecting I guess. Peace to ya'll Nick.
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| Post# 165167 , Reply# 26 11/4/2006 at 22:23 (6,379 days old) by aquarius1984 (Planet earth) | ||
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SCREAMS!
Fairy in a Hotpoint! ariel is bearable now the recommend it. But in a real one, fairy oh no! Produces warrant to arrest mrs jons mum for washercrime. LOL. My mum has the usual hot water tank set up, yeah same too, on other side of the house. The house is only 18 years old so why did they not think of putting the tank over the kitchen, utility? They put my bedroom there instead, but then i guess i would not have been able to listen to the washer while in bed i guess. Lol. My mum used to wash mainly at night for economy 7. She would stick a load in before bed. The joy of listening to our Electrolux Jetsystem ALC through my childhood nights on the longest cycle made me the washerfreak i am i think. Who needs Brahms Lullaby?
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