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Thread Number: 88726
/ Tag: Vintage Automatic Washers
Washing machine advice - I'm looking for a reliable washer |
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Post# 1132596 , Reply# 1 11/3/2021 at 12:45 (901 days old) by panthera  (Rocky Mountains) |
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Hi!
Any Whirlpool DD (the ones with the rubber puck between the motor and the transmission), any Maytag before the 'Performa' junk.
Any GE Filter-Flo after 1959 (pump re-design). Any Speed Queen before 2018 (sadly, the 2018/2019 Speed Queens were the only time they abandoned quality for trash. I have been assured their current offerings are back to the old standards, don't believe a word of it. Our 1969 Speed Queen works perfectly.) Lorain Furniture has many youtube videos on excellent machines from the era your are considering. I have bought parts from him and was totally satisfied. His member name, here, is LorainFurniture. | ||
| Post# 1132600 , Reply# 2 11/3/2021 at 14:03 (901 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806) | ||
A Whirlpool/Kenmore Direct Drive or a Maytag washer built from 1966 to 2006 will be your best bet since either can go for many years with little to no trouble other then motor coupler and agitator dogs on the Whirlpool direct drive washer.
The only downside is Whirlpool discontinued parts for the neutral drain pack in the direct drive washers since they’re evil, and might even discontinue motor couplers as well to force people into buying another machine since again they are evil, but I don’t think Whirlpool will discontinue the agitator dogs since many of their entry level belt drive washers (not to get confused with the belt drives made before 1986) use the same agitators as the direct drives did. If you really want a reliable washer, a wringer is your best bet since there aren’t any timers to wear out or spin bearings to wear out but will require time and patience since there is manual labor involved since you have to manually wring the water out and will have to move the clothes to a rinse bucket and wring them out again if you are going to use a clothes line or dryer. | ||
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Post# 1132602 , Reply# 3 11/3/2021 at 14:47 (901 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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One should always get
Either donor machines and strip them for parts and order new parts which get used up or wear out when one finds a vintage washer.
The two neutral drain packs are soon going to be a bit harder to find - on the other hand, I have never had one fail. Those hockey pucks, well, buy the commercial kit and the commercial clutch and be done with it. Whirlpool designed these washers too well, so they had to build in parts to fail every eight years or so. | ||
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Post# 1132609 , Reply# 5 11/3/2021 at 18:08 (901 days old) by goatfarmer (South Bend, home of Champions) |
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Post# 1132610 , Reply# 6 11/3/2021 at 18:08 (901 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey) |
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well there is this option, and it is only as reliable and dependable as you are!...
Eco friendly, low water usage, non dubbed down temps....
View Full Size
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Post# 1132611 , Reply# 7 11/3/2021 at 18:14 (901 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey) |
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I am curious though of this Speed Queen you have....
and would like to see pics of this balancer that is shredding apart.....never heard of such a thing... willing to bet Alliance would want that machine back to investigate as to what happened.... the only time I have ever seen a balance ring get damaged is from a FL spider breaking and causing the front part of the tub to rub against the shroud... | ||
| Post# 1132614 , Reply# 8 11/3/2021 at 18:29 (901 days old) by Keith (Connecticut ) | ||
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That speed Queen is still under warranty. If it’s only 3 years old it’s under warranty. Never heard of the balance ring on a speed Queen failing either. Post a pic, be interesting to see! | ||
| Post# 1132628 , Reply# 10 11/3/2021 at 19:49 (901 days old) by omnivac7000 (Earth) | ||
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I checked the parts list and nothing was jumping out at me. I assume the balancing ring is getting damaged somehow but again, I don't really know yet... CLICK HERE TO GO TO omnivac7000's LINK | ||
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Post# 1132629 , Reply# 11 11/3/2021 at 19:54 (901 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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 There is a service bulletin (FB19-1 dated Jan 2019) for SQ toploaders specifically circa 2018 (no model numbers stated) with stainless steel baskets regards to the basket balance ring contacting the tub cover during spin, indicated by damage/wear to both the surface of the balance ring and the tub cover*. Fix is to replace the balance ring (P/N 39837), tub cover (P/N depends on the specific model), and wash tub (P/N 719P3, which presumably is the SS basket, not the outer tub). *If only the tub cover is damaged then the problem is presumed due to user error such as gross overloading resulting in clothing items contacting the tub cover. | ||
| Post# 1132738 , Reply# 15 11/5/2021 at 07:21 (900 days old) by keith (Connecticut ) | ||
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Balance Ring Bulletin www.pwslaundry.com/files/... Print this and give it to your tech. | ||
| Post# 1132746 , Reply# 16 11/5/2021 at 10:25 (900 days old) by omnivac7000 (Earth) | ||
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Thank very much!! | ||
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Post# 1132937 , Reply# 18 11/7/2021 at 20:32 (897 days old) by appnut (TX) |
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Post# 1133049 , Reply# 20 11/9/2021 at 09:13 (896 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Post# 1133052 , Reply# 21 11/9/2021 at 09:16 (896 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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Yes, because we have power tools handy For all of our vintage appliances, every time we use them....
If this were Dirty Laundry, I'd add a few well-chosen words. | ||
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Post# 1133103 , Reply# 23 11/9/2021 at 15:47 (895 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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All are direct-drive. Essentially equivalent in operation, some minor differences in features & settings. Whirlpool WTW5500SQ0 = 2006 model-year Whirlpool LSV7233BW0 = 1994 model-year Maytag MTW5600TQ1 = 2007 model-year Effective age may be slightly different than the model-year depending on manufacture date (coded in the serial number) and/or original purchase date (likely no way to know that). | ||
| Post# 1133105 , Reply# 24 11/9/2021 at 15:51 (895 days old) by omnivac7000 (Earth) | ||
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Thank you very much! Which one do you recommend? I was thinking the 1994 model but I'm a novice... | ||
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Post# 1133111 , Reply# 25 11/9/2021 at 16:29 (895 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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Any of them will be better than the mess you now have I'd go for the easiest one to get. Much as Whirlpool pretends Maytags are their 'premium' line, the truth is, from the lowest Crossley to the highest-end KA or Maytag, they're all the same inside where it really matters. Do plan on somday replacing the drive 'puck' with the commercial one you should buy now (watch the Youtube videos, you can do it as a novice in 30 minutes, tops) and buy the commercial clutch pack. I'm infamous around here for my lack of warmth toward Whirlpool. These machines, however, are good choices and will serve you far better than a 2018 SQ. Far longer between fixes, too!
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| Post# 1133292 , Reply# 26 11/11/2021 at 21:44 (893 days old) by omnivac7000 (Earth) | ||
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Good news! I bought the 1994 Whirlpool direct drive washer! I'm going to clean it up a bit and then test it out. I assume the "puck" you mentioned is the clutch? I'm sorry, I'm not sure what that is exactly... | ||
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Post# 1133294 , Reply# 27 11/11/2021 at 22:10 (893 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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Not a clutch.
The Whirlpool experts will be along shortly to explain it in detail, but, basically, Whirlpool came up with a rather clever idea about 40 years ago or so. Hang the motor horizontally under the basket. Put the pump as directly driven on one end and drive the transmission through a slightly flexible 'puck' or, more properly 'motor coupler'.
It is designed to fail every few years which is why they made a commercial version which lasts forever in domestic use. Same with the clutch plate - easily replaced with the commercial unit which lasts forever. Here's a short video on them. You'll like this machine It will clean for decades more! | ||
| Post# 1133295 , Reply# 28 11/11/2021 at 22:53 (893 days old) by qsd-dan (West) | ||
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Post# 1133313 , Reply# 30 11/12/2021 at 09:12 (893 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Neutral drain kit is P/N 388253 or now 388253A. I checked my favorite online source, 388253A is available. Also available and says "genuine Whirlpool" at four other popular sources. Direct-drives were spin-drain for the first three to four years of production. My grandmother's ran for 15 years (1984 to 1999) without wearing out anything (including the motor coupler). It was sold when I passed my 1991 KA set to her upon getting my F&P GWL08 pair. The KA was neutral drain, never had any failures for the duration that she and I used it, which was to 2004 when I got my F&P IWL12 and passed the GWL08 to granny. She liked the F&P better than the KA because of its lower Low water level compared to the KA that filled 1/2 at the smallest load size. I still have the KA but it hasn't been used in years. | ||
| Post# 1133334 , Reply# 32 11/12/2021 at 12:59 (892 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806) | ||
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I’ve never had long term experience with Whirlpool direct drive machines, but I will say the parts that are most prone to failing are the agitator dogs, motor coupler, and spin clutch but usually the agitator dogs or motor coupler will fail first before the spin clutch.
Technically I have more experience with belt drive washers since I’ve owned my Kenmore portable washer since 2017 and my ‘63 Whirlpool since last year. Only way a neutral drain can fail on a belt drive washer is if the plunger/solenoid breaks for the spin and it can’t disengage the spin and it will be obvious since the tub will be spinning when it’s agitating but those failures aren’t common on belt drive washers. | ||
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Post# 1133340 , Reply# 33 11/12/2021 at 13:11 (892 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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Neutral drain, Speed Queen after 2017 First off, by now we all know that Speed Queen ended their quality programmes in 2017 and, every since, have built trash. Anything, including a plastic WWI 'Frigidaire' with the Franklin transmission is going to be better quality.
As to neutral drain, some Whirlpools engage the spin only when the basket has drained completely, some engage the spin when it's just under half-empty and some run with a broken neutral drain for a good long time.
I'd buy the commercial coupler, commercial clutch, both neutral drain kits (one never knows) and not worry about a modern tech not wanting to fix it. Modern techs never want to fix anything older than one week out of warranty, if that.
Worst case, you'll still have a machine which cleans really well, rinses really well and occasionally needs work done to it which you can do for yourself. | ||
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Post# 1133353 , Reply# 34 11/12/2021 at 15:14 (892 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Post# 1133388 , Reply# 36 11/12/2021 at 19:50 (892 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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I believe the only appreciable effect of failed neutral drain is potential linting atop the load. I know everyone says spin-drain is better in that respect but *rumor* is that Whirlpool developed neutral drain in response to customer complaints about lint residue. John/Combo52 has said his experience is that his customers who have neutral drain failure tend to see that problem. Neutral drain repair is not an especially large deal IMO. I've done it once and had no trouble, although it is somewhat messy. I don't recall any special tools being required that a competent DIYer wouldn't already have. 16 oz. of 85/90 wt gear oil and a tube of a suitable gasket maker product. ETA: There's a somewhat increased chance of off-balance spin from the floating-clothes effect if the user tends to underload for the selected water level but DDs handle off-balance spin reasonably well until it gets into the gross range. This post was last edited 11/12/2021 at 20:19 | ||
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Post# 1133389 , Reply# 37 11/12/2021 at 20:27 (892 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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I'm always glad to hear from the Whirlpool experts Although we have several - belt drive and DD (not the electronic sh*t), I've yet to have a neutral drain fail - despite the fact that one Kenmore has always drained half down and then started it's spin and another goes all the way to no water in the tub. But, I also have never made any bones about the fact that I dislike Whirlpool as a company. Always did and after what they did to Maytag, doubly so. Frankly, of all our washers, I'd say the Whirlpools are the most reliable. | ||
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Post# 1133392 , Reply# 38 11/12/2021 at 20:42 (892 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Post# 1133413 , Reply# 41 11/13/2021 at 08:30 (892 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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How many DDs do you guys suppose are running out in the wild with malfunctioning neutral drain of which the users are blissfully unaware ... because it's not a fatal thing? Spin-drain is often touted as superior to neutral-drain (Speed Queen! Maytag!) ... so be happy when DD neutral-drain fails because one then doesn't need to manually trick the machine into spin-drain, yes? | ||
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Post# 1133415 , Reply# 42 11/13/2021 at 09:54 (892 days old) by coldspot66 (Plymouth, Mass) |
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Keith, Give it a rest! | ||
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Post# 1133430 , Reply# 44 11/13/2021 at 14:18 (891 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Reply #33 Is total BS, SQ has not changed their quest for building the best and most reliable [ and easiest to repair ] laundry appliances available anywhere.
As a factory servicer servicing an area with over 50,000 SQs sold in the last decade we are only doing 3-6 service calls a month.
We have never even seen a TL washer with the balance ring problem, and it is ridiculous to call this washer a lemon that has had one failure in 3-4 years that is being fixed free and did not even put it out of service.
Its BS like this that makes me not even want to contribute to AW any longer, lets all just stick to the facts and stop making S..t up.
John L. | ||
| Post# 1133433 , Reply# 45 11/13/2021 at 15:59 (891 days old) by Keith (Connecticut ) | ||
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To John’s point Pic of 90’s direct drive whirlpool (Pic1) VS 2018 Speed Queen (pic 2). | ||
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Post# 1133437 , Reply# 46 11/13/2021 at 16:56 (891 days old) by RP2813 (Sannazay) |
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 John, thanks for setting the record straight about Alliance/SQ. The post further up is the first I've ever read about SQ quality taking a nosedive after 2017, but maybe that was a reference to the ill-conceived and laughable Swirl-O-Matic models.
I'm not ashamed to admit that I've never been a fan of WP-sourced DD machines. My experience with them is limited for sure, but other than a friend's older KitchenAid, the DD machines I've known and/or used were very loud (and I'm stating this as someone who grew up with an ear-splitting Snorge), seemed beyond flimsy when compared to a BD, and along with that, determined to frenetically wrench themselves to an early death. No thanks.
Maybe this is why so many here praise DD machines as being so easy to work on -- because it's a necessary aspect of owning a WP-sourced DD. I guess I'm just old school about TL machines, and the closest thing to that on the market today is a Speed Queen. | ||
| Post# 1133462 , Reply# 47 11/13/2021 at 19:54 (891 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806) | ||
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The direct drive washers are definitely easier to work on but as mentioned they need to be repaired every so often. If Whirlpool simply changed the outer tub from metal to plastic on their belt drive washers, it would have increased the lifespan since the outer tub couldn’t rust out and beefing up the transmission would have helped as well.
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| Post# 1133464 , Reply# 48 11/13/2021 at 20:07 (891 days old) by qsd-dan (West) | ||
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The TC series uses the same running gear as the previous AWN 432/542 models that were discontinued in 2017. The problem is that options and flexibility were severely restricted in the redesign. I'm guessing Speed Queen was forced to do this in order to skate around efficiency mandates. The AWN542 was the last well optioned, truly flexible Speed Queen washer where the user had complete unrestricted control of the machine. | ||
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Post# 1133468 , Reply# 49 11/13/2021 at 20:22 (891 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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| Post# 1133476 , Reply# 51 11/13/2021 at 21:20 (891 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806) | ||
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The only “efficiency” I care about is something the washes and rinses well, uses plenty of water and doesn’t take hours to get a load of laundry done (time REALLY is the most limited resource if you think about it) and overall has satisfactory results. More resources have been consumed since most of those “energy saving” washers have gone off to the scrap heap and not many people realize how much energy is involved in the steel processing/making process and it takes quite a bit of energy to fuel a steel furnace than it is to power appliances that are built to last for many years that will provide satisfactory results.
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| Post# 1133477 , Reply# 52 11/13/2021 at 21:20 (891 days old) by qsd-dan (West) | ||
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I repeatedly fail to understand how eliminating a full-range choice of water levels enhances efficiency.
So do I, but quite sometime ago I came across a YouTube clip where one of the spokesmen for the company claimed changes were made to the TC series in order to skate around regulations.....after they received extreme hatefest from both consumers and reviewers for discontinuing that platform.
A TR7 control panel would have been a nice option with better flexibility. Label it a TC7.
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Post# 1133503 , Reply# 53 11/14/2021 at 10:46 (891 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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Opinions, like a certain body party - everyone has one Anyone defending 2018 Speed Queen Top Loaders is ignoring hard facts. Even Speed Queen - after losing many dealers and firing some of their best dealers for telling them the truth - finally backed down and 'enhanced' their design. Nobody is arguing that vintage Speed Queen was good stuff. Goodness, we love our 1969 solid tub. Next to a Thumper (and allowing for it being avocado green) it's the best cleaning automatic washer I have ever used.
As to Whirlpool - and let's not forget that I really don't like that company one bit and, lo, the many exchanges fraught with sound and fury signifying nothing when I told y'all they'd do the dirty to Maytag, which they did before the ink was dry on the contracts (still waiting for apologies from some of the older ladies) - their puck driven DD series would not still be offered, with warranties, in droves by used appliance dealers all over North America if they weren't reliable. They wouldn't still be washing in so many apartment basements. Nearly all puck-driven DD Whirlpool problems were and are inexpensively fixable. Put in a commercial coupler and a commercial clutch and you've fixed the two intentional built-to-fail points, meant to fail after the washer is sufficiently along in years that a 'fix' is weighed against buying a new one.
Yes, I agree the neutral drain design has it's problems and having personally seen two versions of it implemented in transmissions, I don't understand why people say there was only ever one. Never mind - we're talking about something which may or may not arise after many, many years and may, in some cases, cause problems.
Speed Queen after 2017 was building trash. CU, which knee-jerk praises everything from KitchenAid and, up-till-then, Speed Queen as the best of the best of the very, very best gave them the worst rating for washing of any top loader in the entire history of the magazine. Worse than a WCI 'Frigidaire' with the Franklin transmission.
There are many YouTube videos and articles and quite lengthy software discussions on why they are awful.
John, I have tremendous respect for your knowledge. You help me often and I appreciate it. I suspect, were we to be asked the day of the week by a passerby, we would find it hard to agree - even with a calendar right in front of us.
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| Post# 1133508 , Reply# 54 11/14/2021 at 11:18 (891 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806) | ||
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To be honest, I still don’t like the TR series since it uses a absurd amount of water and doesn’t provide satisfactory results and in Eugene’s videos, it didn’t even wash all that well nor rinsed well. All of these ridiculous energy regulations have ruined appliances (mainly washers and dishwashers) and that’s why things don’t function like they are supposed to anymore all thanks to the ridiculous regulations that solve one problem and create many more in it’s place and more water has gone down the drain with those crappy TR models that with the Speed Queen models that preceded it.
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Post# 1133510 , Reply# 55 11/14/2021 at 12:02 (890 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Panthera: Yes, I agree the neutral drain design has it's problems and having personally seen two versions of it implemented in transmissions, I don't understand why people say there was only ever one.The only revision of which I'm aware on neutral drain component design is slightly smaller/shorter vs. larger/longer threads on the pawl stud, and a difference to match on the rack retainer and threading of the pawl stud mounting hole on the main drive gear. All the rest of the parts and functioning are exactly the same. Have you run across more substantial differences? Pics of the dastardly kit stuff. It includes both studs and rack retainers to match the main drive gear in the transmission being serviced. Smaller pawl stud (original) = specimen with red marker-color ... smaller diameter threads and and slightly longer. Matching rack retainer has no ID holes, and the pawl stud mounting hole is slightly smaller. Larger pawl stud (revised) = specimen with blue marker-color ... larger diameter and slightly shorter threads. Matching rack retainer has two ID holes punched in it, and the pawl stud mounting hole is slightly larger to fit over the larger stud threads. | ||
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Post# 1133520 , Reply# 56 11/14/2021 at 13:07 (890 days old) by panthera (Rocky Mountains) |
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Glenn, that's the difference | ||
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Post# 1133564 , Reply# 57 11/14/2021 at 20:15 (890 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Pic 1: The [spin] pawl (A) is not changed on the revision, there's just the one in the kit. The screw-in shoulder stud (B) on which it sits is different, there are two in the kit. Pic 2: Spin-drain transmissions have a spin pawl (25) and shoulder stud (33). The pawl is what drives the spin gear (23). There's no spin gear cam, trip lever, or latch. They have a spin gear spring (24) but it doesn't function for delay purposes. They have a rack retainer (26) but it's different. The rack is 27, it drives the agitator shaft for oscillation. The actuator (28) shifts the agitator shaft in/out of drive via a mechanism that isn't shown. The main drive gear is 29 The instruction sheet says that the spin gear is not included in the Neutral Drain Pack kit ... but it is. | ||
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Post# 1133598 , Reply# 59 11/15/2021 at 10:12 (890 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Vacerator: What are the plastic pieces, etc. which our neighbor found under their vintage Kenmore 80 series direct drive washer when it quit spinning last week?I'd guess the motor coupler but it also wouldn't agitate with a broken coupler and you didn't say that was the case. I doubt anyone can provide an accurate answer without a photo of the pieces. If the coupler, then a typical situation of trashing the machine for a $12 to $20 DIY part, LOL. | ||
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