Thread Number: 89062
/ Tag: Ranges, Stoves, Ovens
Good-Bye To Gas Kitchen, Hot Water & Heating & Laundry Appliances In NYC |
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Post# 1136332   12/16/2021 at 14:22 (833 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Move over boys and girls from CA, NYC has banned gas hook-ups for new construction.
Besides burners, ovens, ranges no gas connections means goodbye to that fuel for heating, hot water, dryers, etc... www.nytimes.com/2021/12/1... gothamist.com/news/new-york-city... |
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Post# 1136336 , Reply# 1   12/16/2021 at 14:31 (833 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)   |   | |
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YES!
Progress. It's so dangerous, wasteful, and unnecessary. They never should have allowed residential gas service in the first place. If they had spent money on local gas electric generator facilities, increasing electric availability, and all electric home subsidies, we would have been better off and they wouldn't have had to bury all those gas lines. The likes of which are getting older and rustier by the day. hint-hint. Electric doesn't need to be buried. Electric doesn't leak out and make a home explode. |
Post# 1136338 , Reply# 3   12/16/2021 at 14:45 (833 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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If place has gas connections they remain far as one knows.
Not everyone likes electric for cooking/baking in this area, to say nothing our electricity costs are very high. Only people who have electric dryers in private homes for instance are those who cannot have natural gas for various reasons. Would never want to heat a home in New York via electricity. Costs are simply too dear. |
Post# 1136339 , Reply# 4   12/16/2021 at 14:45 (833 days old) by qsd-dan (West)   |   | |
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I still fail to understand why these bans are occurring without a low/non emissions facility in place, up and running, with the majority of bugs worked out and more than enough capacity for current and future additions. I don't see any of that taking place yet. Gas is still a better alternative than resistance heating until viable replacement(s) are functional. |
Post# 1136341 , Reply# 5   12/16/2021 at 15:01 (833 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)   |   | |
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I heat my home with electric. Very INEXPENSIVE baseboard heaters.
Clean. QUIET. Easy to control. Won't kill me by quietly leaking out. Won't explode. Easy to zone. Virtually maintenance free. Electric is not only superior, it's already here. It's been here for quite a while. Apparently hiding behind a gas industry created wall of false narratives that it's some how "less expensive". If you live in an area prone to earthquakes you should be particularly wary of having gas pipelines anywhere NEAR your home, much less inside of it. An earthquake can instantly shift the ground and cause a break in a line that will allow unlimited amounts of gas to spill out. No doubt that's what most of the fires during earthquakes come from. It's bad enough to have one's home thrown about but then to have to deal with it possibly burning down? |
Post# 1136343 , Reply# 6   12/16/2021 at 15:38 (833 days old) by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.)   |   | |
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“No doubt that's what most of the fires during earthquakes come from. “
In 1906 there was more damage to San Francisco from the resulting fires after the quake than from the quake itself. Our home is all electric and our heaters are Hydronic electric baseboard heaters, NOT resistance heaters, that are controlled by wall thermostats. These heaters are 41 years old and they heat our home way better than the pellet insert ever did and for just about the same amount of money as we spent on the pellets for heating. During the winter time we had to burn a bag of pellets a day to keep the house warm enough and at the now price of 5.99 to 6.99 a bag plus tax it was no bargain. We still had a PG&E bill on top of the expense of the pellets so it averages about the same using all electric and its a whole lot more convenient, cleaner and better for the environment. We all have to move with the times and make energy use choices that will save the Earth. Eddie |
Post# 1136352 , Reply# 8   12/16/2021 at 16:36 (833 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)   |   | |
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Older buildings do not have to eliminate gas hook-ups by retrofitting.
That does not mean NYC buildings escape this fresh new Hell, they are coping with other mandates. www.urbangreencouncil.org... Thing to remember at least in NYC vast percentage of housing are rentals. Of that nearly 60% or more falls under some sort of state, local or federal regulation. This includes rent regulations, public and subsidized housing, and so forth. Thus whenever state, city or even federal government order commercial or residential buildings in NYC to do anything, logical course is for owners to pass those costs along to tenants. All sorts of housing cost more here than it ought to due to heavy regulatory environment, price controls and other factors. First round of telling developers to build apartment housing with lower emissions caused them to install PTAC units in apartments instead of central heating. That was all well and good except low to moderate income tenants (and their supporters) moaned that given NY's high electric rates such households would be at a fiscal disadvantage. There is no such thing as a free lunch. If one group does not pay their fair share, others have to pick up that end. Vast amount of those pushing or pushed for this change live in older and most likely rent regulated or public housing. They won't be affected by these changes, but anyone looking for new housing of any sort from single family home to an apartment will be paying more. Ironically anytime a LL tries to change heating or whatever from current steam or hot water (from oil or gas) it is tenant supports who are first out of gate saying people cannot afford to pay. |
Post# 1136356 , Reply# 10   12/16/2021 at 17:07 (833 days old) by goatfarmer (South Bend, home of Champions)   |   | |
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Post# 1136357 , Reply# 11   12/16/2021 at 17:16 (833 days old) by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.)   |   | |
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I have no idea what the electric rates are in New York or any other state for that matter, but let me assure you the rates in California are no bargain either.
We pay $0.26 per KWH in the tier 1 level and $0.33 per KWH for tier 2 on the non time of use rate. You enter tier 2 level when you've exceeded the baseline level which varies based on the time of year. If you consume over twice the baseline level while you’re in tier 2 you get bumped up to tier 3, which thankfully is territory we’ve never entered. I have no idea what the charge per KWH is for tier 3 and I hope to never find out. We also pay more for gasoline in California than any other state in the union save maybe Hawaii. While we may not reach the levels of energy costs that our friends in Europe pay, Californians pay more for energy than almost every other area of the USA when you factor in gasoline prices into equation. The secret for keeping you energy costs down is to be careful how much you use. Limit your driving if you can. Keep the damn windows and doors shut when the heat is on. Turn off lights in rooms not being used, keep your thermostats set lower during the winter. Only use air conditioning when absolutely necessary, don’t waste hot water, the list goes on and on. Basically, you need to use good common sense in how you use energy. One thing for certain is its NOT gonna get any cheaper than it is right now. Eddie |
Post# 1136361 , Reply# 12   12/16/2021 at 17:23 (833 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)   |   | |
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Ironically, one issue solved but many others created in its place. I may not agree with John Lefever’s views on things at times but I definitely agree with him on how a majority of electricity is lost in transmission from the power plant to your house which results in more pollution being released into the atmosphere vs natural gas being sent to your home.
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Post# 1136365 , Reply# 15   12/16/2021 at 17:58 (833 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)   |   | |
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Post# 1136367 , Reply# 17   12/16/2021 at 18:01 (833 days old) by kenwashesmonday (Carlstadt, NJ)   |   | |
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There is no such thing as zero emissions heating and cooking. |
Post# 1136371 , Reply# 19   12/16/2021 at 18:12 (833 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)   |   | |
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Nailed it! No matter if you have a gas or electric stove, pollution is generated either way but is considerably less since there’s no losses in natural gas transmission since it’s sent by pipe under ground as opposed to electricity transmission from the power plant to your home. Nice thing about gas stoves is you can use them without power but have to light the burners with a lighter or match. If you had a electric stove and were without power for several days, you’d be up a creek without a paddle since there would be no way to cook or to heat up any food on the cooktop rendering it useless.
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Post# 1136372 , Reply# 20   12/16/2021 at 18:17 (833 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)   |   | |
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I know from experience that electric stoves are not good to have when the power goes out since there was no way for me to cook or to heat up any food on thanksgiving since the power went out (was without power for 2 days) and ended up having to get takeout food on thanksgiving day since there was no way for me to heat up or to cook anything for 2 days. If I had a gas stove, the story would have been very different since I would have been able to heat up and cook some food on thanksgiving even if it meant there would be no turkey.
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Post# 1136390 , Reply# 23   12/16/2021 at 19:48 (833 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)   |   | |
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Post# 1136393 , Reply# 24   12/16/2021 at 20:27 (833 days old) by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.)   |   | |
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I use a propane Camp stove when the power goes out. A few years ago we were without power for 4.5 days. I used the propane camp stove to cook, heat water for tea/coffee, dishes, bathing out of the bathroom sink. Did I like it? Not especially, but we got thru it just fine for a few days.
When we moved to an AEH 27 years ago we knew we’d have to prepare for possible power outages, of which thankfully there have been few. The 4.5 day incident without power was due indirectly from historical wildfires brought on by Climate Change. So I say lets try to slow down/stop the things we do that cause Climate Change. Its not hard to do. Eddie |
Post# 1136397 , Reply# 25   12/16/2021 at 20:40 (833 days old) by Keith (Connecticut )   |   | |
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That’s what we did before we got a generator. Easy enough, even in winter. |
Post# 1136398 , Reply# 26   12/16/2021 at 20:57 (833 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)   |   | |
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If you really want to know what’s causing all these wildfires in California, it is poor management of the forests and not disposing of the dead vegetation/trees. Since that’s been building up in the forests here for decades, it serves as kindling when a fire starts and that’s what my father told me since he was a firefighter for the state of California for 30 years and even had to fight some of those fires over the years.
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Post# 1136399 , Reply# 27   12/16/2021 at 21:05 (833 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)   |   | |
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Post# 1136403 , Reply# 29   12/16/2021 at 21:26 (833 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)   |   | |
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The technology for solar panels, inverters, batteries, and charge controllers has improved and continues to
and the prices continue to come down. Also, with LED lighting and high efficient appliances like TVs and computers that have come into use in the last 10-15 years; the amount of usage that Americans are using is declining. This is even in consideration of population growth. This decline in KWHs has been going on for about a decade now. The best protection a person can buy? Not that gas powered generator that goes for several thousand dollars and depends on gas and constant maintenance. Buy your own solar electric system kit. Doesn't need gas. Doesn't matter what the rate is for electric. Doesn't matter if the power lines are downed by a storm near by. And you can use it everyday. CLICK HERE TO GO TO bradfordwhite's LINK on eBay
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Post# 1136404 , Reply# 30   12/16/2021 at 21:28 (833 days old) by norgeway (mocksville n c )   |   | |
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In a cold climate like New York, will drive people back to burning wood or oil for heat far more polluting than gas, Silliest thing i have ever heard. |
Post# 1136407 , Reply# 31   12/16/2021 at 21:39 (833 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)   |   | |
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Post# 1136408 , Reply# 32   12/16/2021 at 21:39 (833 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)   |   | |
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The yearly costs of maintenance, repairing, and replacing can be expensive AND are to be added into your operating costs.
Regardless of the utility: water, electric, gas, etc. Consumers are not billed for leaking pipes and electric losses in the main lines outside their homes.
Discussing losses out in the streets for gas, electric, water is pointless.
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Post# 1136409 , Reply# 33   12/16/2021 at 21:52 (833 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)   |   | |
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People in the U.S., and other countries are also benefitting from electric utilities installing Tesla commercial size battery banks at power stations. These act to eliminate brown outs and black outs by providing battery back-up on a large scale.
Most people probably don't realize it but think of the last time you had a serious electric outage.
These also benefit our cel phone service, wired telephone, and internet services.
Before battery back up electric utilities had to constantly estimate how much power would be needed and how much they needed to add to the grid at any moment. This is what caused surges and brown-outs and damages electronic equipment. It's not happening as much now. CLICK HERE TO GO TO bradfordwhite's LINK
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Post# 1136410 , Reply# 34   12/16/2021 at 22:00 (833 days old) by wayupnorth (On a lake between Bangor and Bar Harbor, Maine)   |   | |
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26 years ago I moved in here, being 15 miles from the nearest city, I prepared in case the power went out, which it does several times a year. I have a gas stove that will work without power and 2 gas space heaters. I had a whole house generator installed 2 years ago and never looked back. Now everything from lights to my oil boiler always is on. People around here with heat pumps or electric heat are up the creek with no power and big bills when I am toasty warm and cooking for significantly less with propane and oil. And I am not going to change.
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Post# 1136414 , Reply# 36   12/16/2021 at 22:33 (833 days old) by wayupnorth (On a lake between Bangor and Bar Harbor, Maine)   |   | |
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Yes, it was Maine that voters overwhelmingly rejected Central Maine Powers transmission line from Quebec. Not because they did not want it but to send a message to Central Maine Power, who is the worst rated utility in the US. No doubt the power line will be built thru to Mass but the ratepayers sent their message that they are tired of being neglected and paying high rates while their shareholders laugh all the way to the bank.
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Post# 1136417 , Reply# 37   12/17/2021 at 01:30 (832 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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I've used both gas and electric for cooking.
I much prefer gas, at least for range top burners. As for earthquake hazards, it's my understanding that most if not all gas meters in residential structures in this area have built-in shutoff devices that are activated by shaking sufficient to break gas lines. On top of that, I keep (as advised) a gas shutoff wrench by the gas line where it enters the home. I also have a CO/gas alarm in the main living area of my home. Electric is not necessarily safer. Look up: electrocution. |
Post# 1136419 , Reply# 38   12/17/2021 at 01:57 (832 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)   |   | |
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Post# 1136421 , Reply# 39   12/17/2021 at 02:36 (832 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)   |   | |
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The NECode has required GFCI outlets or circuit breakers for certain vulnerable locations in all new wiring for quite a while now.
Of course a person can put one on every circuit in their home if you choose. It's money well spent. More recent code changes now require Arc fault protection for most other circuits that are not already protected by a GFCI outlet or breaker. Not only that but on many electric service poles outside homes, there are breakers that will trip in an emergency and some automatically reset themselves. Since you're not familiar with such protective devices it might be a good idea to have an electrician visit your home to see what is needed to bring you home up to a safe standard. If, for example, you still have a 1950 made 60 amp main panel with screw in fuses and typical unprotected circuits.... yeah, that is scary. |
Post# 1136423 , Reply# 40   12/17/2021 at 02:54 (832 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)   |   | |
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Not a ground wire to be found. Double tapping is no doubt abundant. Panel outlet? lol.
I doubt this home even knows what a three prong outlet is. I think some of those fuse holes have quarters or nickles in them because the circuits kept blowing. That'll fix'm but good. lol. |
Post# 1136428 , Reply# 41   12/17/2021 at 04:59 (832 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)   |   | |
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Tennessee has some of the cheapest electric rates in the country due to TVA. I live within 60 miles of a nuclear power plant and within 200 miles of the newest nuclear reactor in the nation. TVA runs three nuclear plants, many hydro dams, and several gas turbine plants. I think there are still a few coal plants running but they are being decommissioned. Even with our cheap electric rates, gas is still the cheapest way to go here. Back in the 80's, our local gas company was giving away free gas water heaters if one would switch from electric....my parents and several of our neighbors did so. |
Post# 1136435 , Reply# 42   12/17/2021 at 07:30 (832 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)   |   | |
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All points conserved, if this gets off the ground, right down to 100% electfiying Detorit, and adequate back up preserves every currents' continuity, what will you do with all those gas appliances?
And of which Ithe only thing I'd miss, is in just my most preferred method of cooking, with which I enjoy after the hump of lighting that flame, the still-instant on, and easy use of... -- Dave |
Post# 1136440 , Reply# 43   12/17/2021 at 09:37 (832 days old) by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.)   |   | |
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Yes Rich, the gas meters to the dwellings may have auto shutoffs for seismic events. But what about the gas mains that run under the streets? Thats what caused massive explosion and destruction in San Bruno a few years back when a 50+ year old gas main failed. Blew up ALL those houses with the auto shutoffs.
Eddie |
Post# 1136441 , Reply# 44   12/17/2021 at 09:58 (832 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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Post# 1136449 , Reply# 46   12/17/2021 at 11:09 (832 days old) by robbinsandmyers (Conn)   |   | |
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As if electric grids arent over burdened already. They should be building more "clean" power plants ahead of all this demand they're now creating, but they wont. So when power goes out you're totally fcked unless you have a HUGE standby generator until they ban those. NO THANKS. I'll take my gas stove, gas hot water heater, and gas furnace any day. At least when power goes out im still able to cook and take a warm shower. And use my landline with old school Western Electric phone as a cordless is useless at that point. The tree huggers in this country need to hop a plane and start preaching to countries like China, Russia, India , etc about cleaning up their acts a hell of a lot more. I've seen so many Youtube videos of cottage industries over in this countries polluting like its still 1934 and Greta isnt waving her fist at them. Just Western culture.
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Post# 1136452 , Reply# 47   12/17/2021 at 11:46 (832 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)   |   | |
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Even though population is still growing in the U.S.
All those light bulbs that have been changed to LEDs. The TVs and computers that use LED screens, the improved insulation, all the outdated shopping malls now closed, etc. It's adding up to significant savings. Fortunately, we've also seen several nuclear power plants removed from threatening our safety as well.
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Post# 1136539 , Reply# 51   12/18/2021 at 15:14 (831 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)   |   | |
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Nuclear, like asbestos, cigarettes, Beta-max, the horse and buggy, 3G Networks, creosote soaked railroad ties, the early 1900s electric hair curling machine, and other products that served us, whether good or bad, are OVER.
Give them a happy send-off, let the investors get the tax write-offs; let it go and lets move FORWARD.
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Post# 1136540 , Reply# 52   12/18/2021 at 15:19 (831 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)   |   | |
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Are some very good reasons why a solar farm is superior.
A solar farm can be up and running in a matter of months compare that to upwards of 10 YEARs for some ugly radioactive plant costing BILLIONS. A solar farm can still be used for planting crops beneath the panel racks as it's been found that some plants actually do better with partial shade during the day. Nobody would be afraid to walk near or have a solar farm in their neighborhood. A dumpy radioactive plant is the place of horrors. Solar farms don't explode and render entire cities unlivable. The very idea that some, money seeking contractors would even propose nuclear is totally insulting. Do they not realize the creep factor? Disgusting.
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Post# 1136564 , Reply# 54   12/18/2021 at 22:10 (831 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA)   |   | |
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Post# 1136735 , Reply# 56   12/20/2021 at 23:55 (829 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)   |   | |
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It sounds like Ireland deals with the same humidity issues that Florida has. Houses, vehicles, and other structures need to be regularly cleaned with anti-bacterial cleaners to keep the mold and mildew under control. But Ireland is a bit cooler, if I'm not mistaken.
--- If one wants the interesting look of thatch you could apply a standard reliable roof like metal, then apply (fake) thatch over it for looks. Don't know how well this would go over in say New York or Ohio for example, but hey... CLICK HERE TO GO TO bradfordwhite's LINK
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Post# 1136758 , Reply# 58   12/21/2021 at 11:51 (828 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)   |   | |
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Post# 1136825 , Reply# 60   12/21/2021 at 22:28 (828 days old) by volsboy1 (East Tenn Smoky mountains )   |   | |
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Gas furnaces I don't care for they dry out the air so much makes me miserable. I prefer Heat pumps here these new ones pump out just as much heat as a furnace and even when its 0 outside . The Mitsubishi hyper heat kicks ass and I don't even have E.M. heat hooked up. The Ruud I have in my place not so much it heats but its not warm it feels cold and its a new system. Water heating is where gas really shines .. A 40 gallon Gas water heater can replace a much larger Electric and keep up when there is a high demand for hot water. I have never tried a on demand electric . I looked into one about 4 years ago and the power requirements where nuts . They need to get rid of Coal plants and go nuclear , Tva has Bellafonte plant about 80% done and its been sitting there like that for years. Nuclear has a bad rap that is not really fair. Thats one thing I love about living here unlike California . No rolling blacks outs . I am a liberal at heart for the most part but, I am not one of those out there in far left field throw away logic and common sense and always be P.C. correct ,screw that shit. Diablo canyon is California's sole reaming nuclear power plant, there closing it down in a year or two and installing Gas turbines in its place. That makes no sense at all its already up and running and supplies 3 million house with power and they have a power supply problem already. I don't see the how that helps anything really save for being P.C.
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Post# 1136930 , Reply# 61   12/22/2021 at 21:26 (827 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)   |   | |
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Post# 1136933 , Reply# 62   12/22/2021 at 21:41 (827 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)   |   | |
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The reason to shut down Diablo canyon, and any other nuclear power plant sitting in a volatile location, is because it's a time bomb as is. Hovering very close to the San Andreas fault and only a few hours from either L.A. or SanFran.
It NEVER should have been built there in the first place. There is an incredible amount of wealth and our countries resources in California. We certainly don't want to take unnecessary risks and threaten those. Same goes for the closing of the Indian Point reactor near NYC and for NY to put a Ban on Fracking in NY state due NYC getting it's water primarily upstate. We all should know by now what a disaster fracking has been as well. dumb, but well intentioned I suppose. |
Post# 1137019 , Reply# 63   12/23/2021 at 16:43 (826 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)   |   | |
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Several west coast nuclear plants have been decomishioned including San Onofore between Oceanside and Long Beach. |
Post# 1137205 , Reply# 65   12/25/2021 at 07:21 (824 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Post# 1137358 , Reply# 66   12/26/2021 at 13:01 (823 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)   |   | |
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Post# 1137397 , Reply# 68   12/26/2021 at 18:10 (823 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)   |   | |
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Nuclear is MUCH more expensive.
It has proven itself very volatile. Three Mile Island, The Chernobyl disaster in 1986 that has rendered the entire city of Pripyat unlivable, the 2011 accident in Japan's Fukushima Daiichi reactor. Do any of those serious accidents sound familiar? The damages they've done aren't going away anytime soon. It is certainly NOT clean. Do YOU want to live anywhere near a radioactive toxic waste dump? The nuclear industry is desperately trying to push this fraudulent narrative in the media and sh*ts gotta stop. Battery back-up adapts BEST and quickly to changes in demand regardless of the power source. CLICK HERE TO GO TO bradfordwhite's LINK
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Post# 1137404 , Reply# 69   12/26/2021 at 18:31 (823 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)   |   | |
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The reason for the Chernobyl disaster was because of a piss-poor design with no safety features and dangerous reactor design where the chain reaction sped up when water was lost.
I really find it interesting how a majority of people on this site are environmentalists but yet are against nuclear but complain about pollution from coal plants then start complaining on how there’s not enough electricity then push for these cheap appliances that don’t do a darn thing. If more nuclear power plants were built decades ago, there would have been a lot less pollution since there wouldn’t be as much carbon dioxide being released into the atmosphere. |
Post# 1137423 , Reply# 70   12/26/2021 at 19:49 (823 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)   |   | |
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Who do you work for?
"I really find it interesting how a majority of people on this site are environmentalists..."
That being said, WHAT is the opposite of being an environmentalists?
Who wouldn't want to be an environmentalists if for the name only. You know, much like the corrupt nuclear industry is trying to do. Trying to add a fake badge of green friendly to their stinky product.
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Those two things don't go together. People have concerns about the pollution from BOTH those facilities.
Nuclear pollution is air born as it leaks out from time to time when the rods are changed in the plants AND it's also the pollution and threats from water leakage such as what they've had at the Florida nuclear plant and they had and the now closed New York nuclear plant... and others. Plus of course there is the long term storage of the MANY drums of highly dangerous nuclear waste.
Coal pollution is air born and the dust from storing coal, plus the mining.
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"then start complaining on how there’s not enough electricity...."
Electric usage in the U.S. has been declining in the U.S. No one's been complaining about a lack of electricity here. Where did you see that?
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"....then push for these cheap appliances that don’t do a darn thing....."
Again, where on this site did you see that and how is that relevant to your statement? This site is for Appliance collectors.
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Statistically there would have been more nuclear accidents. There also is a tremendous amount of energy and pollution used when building these awful cement behemoths AND the pollution that's created in dealing with all the radioactive waste and that's on-going. The nuclear industry tries to ignore that TOO.
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All it takes is one Chernobyl type accident to cause serious and long term damages to an entire city, as can be seen in Russia. Only nuclear will cause that kind of UNACCEPTABLE damage.
Solar doesn't melt down and contaminate the water and air.
A natural gas burning plant and coal burning plant, while creating air pollution, if they explode, it's minor and fixable.
Wave energy, wind energy, and hydro-powered generation may have minor impacts on the environment but they don't make the land unlivable.
Nuclear isn't fixable. Highly dangerous!
It's also insulting and suspicious that anyone would suggest it as an alternative especially with the benefits that Solar, wind, and batteries have proven.
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Post# 1137432 , Reply# 71   12/26/2021 at 20:43 (823 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA)   |   | |
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As to who I work for, I WISH I could have been an engineer for Westinghouse!
Chernobyl was caused by a nasty, narcissist supervisor who told the operators to disable every safety feature the reactor had (it had some despite being Soviet). That was preventable.
Fukushima was a very unusual condition yet only 2 people died from radiation poisoning, 20,000 died in the tsunami. It is a lot of damage to clean up.
Three mile island is almost not that bad compared to these 2 but the facility was ruined. It would not be bad had they not turned off the extra water (because no one answered the phone).
Nuclear power is necessary for large industrial amounts of electric power to replace coal. Wind and solar are OK for residential and local needs and for remote areas, but it may not be enough to replace coal anytime soon. Natural gas might still give off too much CO2 to prevent climate change.
One thing I don't understand is when a nuclear plant is shut down (and it's not "shot"), why must they destroy it right away? Why not "mothball" in case it needs used again?
I better hide! |
Post# 1137435 , Reply# 72   12/26/2021 at 21:09 (823 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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Post# 1137443 , Reply# 73   12/26/2021 at 21:34 (823 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA)   |   | |
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Post# 1137448 , Reply# 74   12/26/2021 at 22:00 (823 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)   |   | |
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Beaver Valley, like other nuclear powered plants are not economically viable by their own opinions.
If it weren't for tax subsidies these aging behemoths would close down, which is what they should be doing ANYWAY because the useful life of these structures is up. They are designed for a set amount of time. To run them passed that is foolish and dangerous. If you are only 40 miles or so from this I would think you'd be concerned. Throw in all the damages being done to parts of PA from fracking, I feel bad for PA residents. It's a beautiful state but... there is some interesting but damaging things going on there. |
Post# 1137449 , Reply# 75   12/26/2021 at 22:12 (823 days old) by neptunebob (Pittsburgh, PA)   |   | |
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Post# 1137474 , Reply# 76   12/27/2021 at 02:40 (822 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)   |   | |
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I sincerely hope my previous comment pointing out very public issues that have happened didn't come across in an unintended way.
Issues with Centralia, the Three Mile Island disaster, and large scale fracking are unfortunate things that have happened in PA. There are similar things like that everywhere we go. It certainly is nothing personal. |
Post# 1137479 , Reply# 77   12/27/2021 at 03:07 (822 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)   |   | |
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I grew up 35 miles from Brown's Ferry nuclear power plant in Athens, Alabama. Several neighbors and friends parents work/ed there. My aunt retired from there. Before I became an RN, I tried to get a job with the TVA...but it's really hard to get on there. www.tva.com/energy/our-power-sys... Browns Ferry is TVA’s first and largest site with three boiling water reactors producing about 10 percent of TVA’s total generation capacity. In 2014, Browns Ferry was the second-largest power producer in the United States.
And below is the first new nuclear reactor of the 21st century |
Post# 1137482 , Reply# 78   12/27/2021 at 03:24 (822 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)   |   | |
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Post# 1137487 , Reply# 79   12/27/2021 at 03:35 (822 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)   |   | |
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And people don't get black lung.
I'm sure the asbestos and cigarette making industries were paying people as well. That's no reason to keep them around. CLICK HERE TO GO TO bradfordwhite's LINK |
Post# 1137488 , Reply# 80   12/27/2021 at 03:39 (822 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)   |   | |
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Coal Ash has been the subject of several lawsuits and disastrous pollution issues of late. No surprise there. CLICK HERE TO GO TO bradfordwhite's LINK
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Post# 1137578 , Reply# 83   12/27/2021 at 18:18 (822 days old) by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.)   |   | |
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Some people can still act with civility with one another. The real change that has brought on so much incivility is social media and the internet. It’s so easy to be disrespectful towards others if you don’t have to look them in the eye or ever know them personally.
The same thing can be accomplished between others online if you just remember to treat others like you would treat them IN PERSON. Just because you can be an a-hole online doesn’t mean you need to be an a-hole. Stop and think a moment or two about just how your remarks may make that person feel or better yet, how they would make YOU feel. If if doesn’t feel right, then it isn’t, save your keystrokes. Eddie |
Post# 1137583 , Reply# 84   12/27/2021 at 18:46 (822 days old) by bradfordwhite (central U.S.)   |   | |
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It's always been true that what we see or hear of a person on the TV, radio, stage, newsprint, internet vlogs, videos, etc. is not necessarily how they are in person.
In years past, the studio "system" tended to control the outward publicity that the public saw of stars in order to protect their investments.
It's human nature however to focus on negatives and often not be forgiving when people do change for the better.
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Post# 1137644 , Reply# 86   12/28/2021 at 09:40 (821 days old) by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.)   |   | |
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thats a terrible story about your poor nephew! I sure hope that he won’t have permanent liver damage or lose any of his vision.
What the hell has gone wrong with people that would risk their own children's lives over the BS and lies that they hear and read on these twisted media outlets. If your state has a good CPS dept. they will hopefully make an impact on your misguided BIL. Maybe your sister would be wise to leave him before anything else terrible like this happens with fatal consequences. Eddie |
Post# 1137648 , Reply# 87   12/28/2021 at 10:17 (821 days old) by iej (.... )   |   | |
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That's terrible. Hope he's ok and recovers and hope she gets to go to university.. |
Post# 1137659 , Reply# 88   12/28/2021 at 13:23 (821 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)   |   | |
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Post# 1137690 , Reply# 89   12/28/2021 at 19:15 (821 days old) by Vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)   |   | |
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Their divorce is final Jan. First. My nephew is ok, and recovering at home. It got so bad there. He took a lot of money out of savings and bought gold. He keeps 300 gallons of gas under the deck. He worships Alex Jones Info wars, and Q anon. |
Post# 1137702 , Reply# 90   12/28/2021 at 19:54 (821 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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I have a cousin who grew up in Greenwich Village. His parents were quite leftwing, so the kid naturally rebelled and for a while turned quite right wing, with anger issues. Last time I saw him was around '74, when we were both in our early 20's, and he was more than a little on the edge. I have heard he's straightened out since then. I wish him well.
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