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Thread Number: 89109
/ Tag: Vintage Dishwashers
Bizarre results from Powerclean module switchover…need pointers |
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| Post# 1136881 12/22/2021 at 14:27 (849 days old) by maytaga806 (Howell, Michigan) | ||
Hello all I just wanted to get in here to ask something that I’ve been constantly confused over for the last many months. As some of you know I got a powerclean dishwasher last year and I was told since I had the direct feed I can interchange the wash pump outlet and install a tower and correct spray arm with the black nozzle after removing the old stuff, well when I did this you’d think the upper spray arm would work as the tower system, since it has all the same parts.
I know I got into this topic a few months ago but cannot find the thread of replies, but I put my camera in to see if it was working properly and the upper arm had very low pressure and wasn’t jetting much water out, the jet streams weren’t even high enough to reach any of the dishes on the top rack. I checked the alignment of the tower to the spray arm, everything is directly in the middle of the racks as they should be to meet up with the black rubber nozzle. It makes no sense to me whatsoever, the upper arm is not clogged it’s been fully cleaned, the tower is missing just two out of 4 of the clips to snatch onto the rack, so I don’t know and that’s where some of you come in. I will attach the video here, I took it all oht and redid it over and over and everything was correct the only piece I don’t have is the small ring for the black rubber nozzle but I don’t think that makes any difference at all. Do the direct feed powercleans have a different impeller or something I’m unaware of? Do I not have the right wash outlet? just doesn’t make any sense to me at all and I’d really appreciate input and advice just because I can’t make any sense of it and it at the time was just a fun experiment nothing permanent and it’s left me baffled ever since. This model being a 2005 is an energy star direct feed built, could it be that it just doesn’t use as much water as the tower models? Did the tower models need a higher water level to create enough pressure going to the upper arm and the direct feed models didn’t need as much water as the tower system? Cause the water level on mine fills slightly below the element but has full on pressure for the upper system as I have recorded that as well and works just as it should and I was shocked to actually see how powerful my upper arms pressure was on my direct feed. CLICK HERE TO GO TO maytaga806's LINK | ||
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| Post# 1136978 , Reply# 2 12/23/2021 at 11:14 (848 days old) by maytaga806 (Howell, Michigan) | ||
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I have never had it surge or had any cavitation at all with this dishwasher, it constantly sounds as it has plenty of water fills to slightly below the heating element. I just cannot understand why the upper arm wouldn’t have enough pressure the tower was in the correct placement, it’s mind boggling. I’ll check that panel though.
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| Post# 1136985 , Reply# 3 12/23/2021 at 11:50 (848 days old) by maytaga806 (Howell, Michigan) | ||
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Post# 1137010 , Reply# 4 12/23/2021 at 15:23 (848 days old) by Yogitunes  (New Jersey) |
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alright...lets backtrack here....and rule out a few things....
the camera is a help, but you need to do a few more longer vids to see what is going on..... cavitation or not, your water level when you open the door should be just covering the heating element, up to one inch above it.....you have to factor the water being thrown all over, reduces the level covering the element, especially if it is trying to heat the water...it will heat the water if it is submerged as much as possible...I just turned mine on to check the levels in order to advise proper levels... we already know the arm attached to the upper rack is not getting enough water pressure.... we need to see a few things: take the bottom rack out and lets see what kind of pressure is coming out of the black snubber.... put bottom rack back in, and lets see from under the top rack, the water stream heading into the upper wash arm assembly...and one view from the top of the wash arm to see what the center stream is hitting the roof/3rd level wash.... can't help but wonder if your UltraWash chamber doesn't have a split on the side of it.....I had this about a year ago, could not figure out why the top rack was not getting cleaned...ran into this similar issue as you are, didn't see the crack until I pulled the module out, and seen that it was split at the molded seam.... try this, post some vids, and lets see where we are at.....and we will go from there... in the mean time, if you dont have that plastic washer for the lower wash arm.....call your local Chinese Restaurant and order a quart of Wonton soup, wonderful stuff for these cold winter days....after you have enjoyed the soup, take the lid, and cut a template/washer to fit the top of the wash arm....and install, in fact you could place two or three of these in there, theres a lot of play in there... | ||
| Post# 1137028 , Reply# 6 12/23/2021 at 17:30 (848 days old) by maytaga806 (Howell, Michigan) | ||
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I’ll have to run a cycle later and check the water level again, mine is a newer models late 2000s and only fills up to the line of the heating element. Check this video out he’s a manner here I think, and his is identical to my model and fills to the same level mine does if you watch it fill. I’ll check later thoufh. At the time when I was testing all this I did indeed check the water flow coming from the tower and it was perfect the jetstream was on point as far as pressure goes and then coming out of the upper spray arm towards the third level was a moving heavy stream of water so everything was working just right everything was getting the water it needed to but I’ll definitely put the parts back in and record some videos and see where we can go.
What is the split that you’re talking about? And LOL love the advice I have already many of those laying around from my Chinese place!! I can guarantee my unit is not under filling because I’ve put a camera in and I’ve very strongly monitored the upper rack and how the spray arm is operating and it’s stream was hitting the roof just how it should and there’s a waterfall coming out from the top jet just as it should do so. So if it had a crack or was underfilling, you’d think you would notice having it as a direct feed right now and works just as it should, I have videos of running it from the inside as well which is posted to my channel above. CLICK HERE TO GO TO maytaga806's LINK | ||
| Post# 1137031 , Reply# 7 12/23/2021 at 17:41 (848 days old) by maytaga806 (Howell, Michigan) | ||
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Yogitunes…
Your ultrawash is an older model than mine isn’t it? I have the final generation of the powerclean, the one in which the spray arm is mounted to a plastic circular piece. Every one of these models being the newer side I've seen in person only fill slightly below the element. Maybe the older ones from the mid 90s filled higher, you would probably know that information but I’m unsure which models you have of this generation.
I’ll measure the water once I get home and see where it’s at. But in the link I just sent, that dishwasher fills the exact same amount of water as mine. | ||
| Post# 1137032 , Reply# 8 12/23/2021 at 17:42 (848 days old) by maytaga806 (Howell, Michigan) | ||
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Post# 1137056 , Reply# 9 12/23/2021 at 19:42 (848 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey) |
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I have a few of the 1988-90 porcelain tub models.....benefit of the center tower is the upper rack can be adjusted....these ones have the motor start running while filling
and I have one model similar to yours....this one fills, then starts the motor...I do like the "SensorWash" on these models...not wild about the plastic tub... for the most part, my models are given a certain time frame to fill, I know when the inlet screen gets clogged as the water just touches the heating element... 1 inch above the heating element, then the float kicks in to shut off the water.... you can also tell from hearing it fill....if it just shuts off, the time frame ran out....but if the fill valve goes on and off several times, that is the float bouncing in the water.... well, enough about water levels and fill times.... if your center tower is getting full pressure all the way up.....something puzzling is going on as to why water is not going full force into the wash arm... the UltraWash chamber as you know looks like the Jupiter One space craft from the original TV series 'Lost in Space'.....there is a top and bottom section that is fused together, and at this seam is where it split open on one side...it was mentioned that my water may be too hot for a residential machine, who knows?...replaced the unit and it has been running fine.... | ||
| Post# 1137062 , Reply# 10 12/23/2021 at 20:21 (848 days old) by maytaga806 (Howell, Michigan) | ||
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So the verdict is this I just let it run a rinse only and once it stopped filling I opened it up, and the water level is a few centimeters below the heating element. This machine has never filled any higher or lower than the level it’s at right now. I have a video from over the summer when I did this experiment of throwing the tower system onto mine, and I propped the camera just where it would show the top of the tower and the top wash arm funnel, and it was full on force of water going thru it. But let me note something strange, I converted this 3 times to the tower system, just to make sure I was doing everything correctly. Each time, the pressure of the top spray arm would vary. The first time I did it I had suspicions of it not working correctly and after looking at footage I took of the inside, it showed very small jet streams. The next time I took apart and re assembled the pressure was slightly and I mean ever so slightly better, the streams were a little higher but not enough to clean dishes still. And everytime it would vary which is something I know I left out.
What I wanna do this time is not only get those videos for you to see with the rack out and view of the tower feeding the upper rack, but to give the dishwasher a few extra big cups of water and then record it and see what happens. I feel like I’ve done that once before over summer and it didn’t make any difference, but I can’t quite remember. How quickly do these thunderbolt upper arms turn? Because the first time I ran it with all the new parts on I could hear one of the spray arms going absolutely crazy and spinning very very quickly, faster than the lower arm usually turns. That time I didn’t record unfortunately because I figured wow it works. No idea what that was but I didn’t hear that sound when I had started to record and knew it wasn’t being pressured fully. But if it was underfilling why wouldn’t the direct feed upper wash be impacted by it as well? As I’ve stated it works fully in mine no problem at all. | ||
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Post# 1137105 , Reply# 11 12/24/2021 at 10:11 (847 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Upper Wash Arm Water Pressure | ||
| Post# 1137313 , Reply# 12 12/25/2021 at 22:09 (846 days old) by maytaga806 (Howell, Michigan) | ||
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Merry Christmas to all reading firstly, as an update I did use some old plastic pie lids and cut three pieces to go on top of each other as a ring seal for the lower arm. I’ll be having the original seal coming soon so for now I’ll test tomorrow and see if there’s any difference plus if it’s still behaving the same way I’ll see if adding extra water gives it that pressure. I would really like to get good use out of these parts I bought which took a while to find them and get them ordered.
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| Post# 1137350 , Reply# 13 12/26/2021 at 12:21 (845 days old) by maytaga806 (Howell, Michigan) | ||
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Update. I put all the tower system stuff back in, and gave it a run with the camera inside and it’s still not getting enough pressure on the top rack arm. Dumped about a gallon extra in and was covering the heating element, no difference at all. So it doesn’t seem to be underfilling at all, it has the same pressure from the main fill that it does with an extra dump of water after it fills, the black nozzle is spraying out full pressure it looks like. I am absolutely baffled and dont understand this at all….
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| Post# 1137351 , Reply# 14 12/26/2021 at 12:24 (845 days old) by maytaga806 (Howell, Michigan) | ||
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| Post# 1137353 , Reply# 15 12/26/2021 at 12:39 (845 days old) by Cam2s (Nebraska) | ||
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Well maybe you need to check that the middle wash arm itself isn’t damaged or clogged. | ||
| Post# 1137355 , Reply# 16 12/26/2021 at 12:45 (845 days old) by maytaga806 (Howell, Michigan) | ||
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I posted two videos check them out and tell me your thoughts. We’ve ruled out the factor that water level isn’t the problem. I’ve checked the tower and made sure it’s perfectly centered, I have the rings under the black nozzle I recorded it also without the lower rack and there’s lots of pressure coming out of it, it makes ZERO SENSE!!!! This is driving me absolutely INSANE. One video is with regular fill level and the second one which is the last upload on my channel is the one where I dumped like two extra gallons in. No difference really.
CLICK HERE TO GO TO maytaga806's LINK | ||
| Post# 1137356 , Reply# 17 12/26/2021 at 12:47 (845 days old) by maytaga806 (Howell, Michigan) | ||
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Cameron…. | ||
| Post# 1137365 , Reply# 18 12/26/2021 at 13:46 (845 days old) by maytaga806 (Howell, Michigan) | ||
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My only other guess is that my tower I bought used is the problem, the sides opposite to the clips that hook onto the rack are a bit rusted and maybe a little worn, but when it’s in place I can also move it back or towards me slightly, it’s still a bit tight on there and doesn’t wiggle around or anything. It is indeed in the right placement of the rack very center one with even number of holes across on each side. There are a few brand new ones for sale out there.
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| Post# 1137369 , Reply# 19 12/26/2021 at 14:01 (845 days old) by maytaga806 (Howell, Michigan) | ||
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Considering the tower on the upper wash arm has a full jetting stream spraying the roof but the actual arm it’s mounted to has weak pressure is just bizarre to me. Something has to be wrong with maybe the arm itself although it looks perfect and thru the holes I see nothing. Sorry for the splattered responses my browser won’t let me scroll when I write long things so I have to shorten for now.
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| Post# 1137877 , Reply# 20 12/30/2021 at 17:01 (841 days old) by maytaga806 (Howell, Michigan) | ||
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