Thread Number: 89301  /  Tag: Ranges, Stoves, Ovens
Really want a vintage gas range but afraid....
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Post# 1138944   1/10/2022 at 19:11 (390 days old) by weed30 (St. Louis, MO)        

I really want a vintage gas range, and there are many in my city for bargain prices. But...they scare me because they have continuously burning pilot lights. If one stops burning somehow I'm terrified of it blowing up. Not so much the cooktop burners as much as the oven. I once lived in an apartment with an old gas range and relit the burners with only marginal fear. The oven though...it is in my head that if the oven pilot goes out, the oven fills with gas that you can't smell easily because the door is closed. I would definitely have the range installed and checked by a professional. Please tell me about your vintage gas ranges and if I am worrying too much. TIA.




Post# 1138949 , Reply# 1   1/10/2022 at 19:37 (390 days old) by gizmo (Victoria, Australia)        

Don't they have a thermocouple in the pilot flame? If the flame goes out, the thermocouple senses the drop in temperature and cuts off the gas in seconds. It looks like a small metal rod sticking up into the pilot flame.

 

Personally I would go for a stove with electronic re-ignition, but you might want something older than that.

It might be possible to fit reignition to an older stove?? That would require expertise and money spent, but it might be possible.

 

 

 


Post# 1138955 , Reply# 2   1/10/2022 at 20:38 (390 days old) by rickr (.)        

rickr's profile picture
My gas range has been in constant use in my home since 1937. I did have to send the oven thermostat to Texas, to be rebuilt once, about $100.00 The oven is a bit small, but one gets used to it, and learns how to deal with it. I love it, and as long as I am in this house (42 years and counting) I will continue to use it. The oven is "match light" and the burners have one pilot light for all four burners. One of the nicest features with these old gas stoves, is they are all porcelain, and usually just need a good cleaning.

Post# 1138958 , Reply# 3   1/10/2022 at 20:42 (390 days old) by rickr (.)        
Fear of natural gas.

rickr's profile picture
BTW, I do not know why the pilot light would go out, but if it does, one will notice the smell from the small amount of gas that the pilot uses.

Post# 1138959 , Reply# 4   1/10/2022 at 20:47 (390 days old) by bradfordwhite (West Coast, U.S.)        
What could possibly go wrong with

bradfordwhite's profile picture
an endless stream of highly explosive and toxic gas piped directly into your living environment?





An electric stove won't do this.






Post# 1138960 , Reply# 5   1/10/2022 at 20:52 (390 days old) by rickr (.)        

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an endless stream of highly explosive and toxic gas piped directly into your living environment?

Overall, a bit dramatic and sensational, but after all, it is AUTOMATICWASHER.ORG....


Post# 1138961 , Reply# 6   1/10/2022 at 20:54 (390 days old) by bradfordwhite (West Coast, U.S.)        

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I won't allow gas lines in my home or around it. I prefer not to have gas lines in my neighborhood.

Gas should only be used for commercial regional electric generation stations and similar manufacturing type facilities. Never should have been installed into peoples homes. Good intentions I'm sure, but a bad idea.






Post# 1138962 , Reply# 7   1/10/2022 at 21:04 (390 days old) by bradfordwhite (West Coast, U.S.)        

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"an endless stream of highly explosive and toxic gas piped directly into your living environment"

Is it just occurring to you that that's what a connection to the gas network in fact IS?

Much like a connection to public water service, if there is a break in the pipe there is the potential for an endless amount of damaging water. Granted, water isn't explosive and the damages it could do are fixable. Unlike a house that explodes from gas.





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Post# 1138970 , Reply# 8   1/10/2022 at 21:36 (390 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Hi, You Are Worring Too much

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Gas ranges do not blow up or cause explosions even if all three pilots blow out, the amount of gas that escapes is way too little to ever cause an explosion.

 

This is why they were built for decades without a system that shuts off the gas flow if the pilots blow out.

 

The greater dangers with any gas range are the combustion products from using the range, do be sure that your kitchen has a good exhaust fan or hood that vents to the outdoors, and use it when using the range.

 

What are some examples of older gas ranges that you are liking ?

 

John L.


Post# 1138989 , Reply# 9   1/11/2022 at 07:55 (389 days old) by weed30 (St. Louis, MO)        
Woah.....

Thanks for some of the less scary replies - haha.

gizmo: I'm not sure if all gas ranges have thermocouples.

rickr: So you have to light the oven every time you use it? Interesting.

combo52: I have one of those vintage through the wall fans from the 50s, and it's quite strong. Weirdly it's not on the range wall, but on the wall perpendicular that is an outside wall. (There is no way to put the range directly below the fan because there is a low window that takes up most of the space there - very small kitchen.)

I have a pink Gaffers and Sattler in my garage but it needs some rechroming which is quite expensive, so I have been looking off and on for something in better shape. I regularly find old Calorics, Ropers, Magic Chefs, Tappans, etc. Some of them are astonishingly clean inside and out!


Post# 1138992 , Reply# 10   1/11/2022 at 08:52 (389 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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my water heater has a pilot light....

that thought alone hasn't let me sleep for 28 years since its been installed!


you might be better off with an electric stove!


dont let a house fire go to waste, break out the wieners on a stick, you got a block party in the making!





Post# 1139017 , Reply# 11   1/11/2022 at 14:32 (389 days old) by wayupnorth (On a lake between Bangor and Bar Harbor, Maine)        

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Alot of people shut the top pilot off to save gas and lit burners by hand. Most gas stoves I remember as a kid had the hole on the oven bottom with a sign saying "Light Here". Those stoves are outlawed in this state. Higher end C/P stoves did have an oven pilot but a thermocouple had to heat up first, that usually took about 1 minute for the burner to come on. Sears salesmen were told to upsell the housewife to convenient pilot type ovens over the cheaper match light models. Today, almost all gas stoves have electronic ignition.

Post# 1139034 , Reply# 12   1/11/2022 at 17:35 (389 days old) by goatfarmer (South Bend, home of Champions)        

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Rick, Rick, Rick........wink


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Post# 1139036 , Reply# 13   1/11/2022 at 17:49 (389 days old) by weed30 (St. Louis, MO)        

wayupnorth - I'm glad you mentioned those being outlawed. I will have to see what will pass inspection here. Attached is one of several I'm looking at.

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Post# 1139038 , Reply# 14   1/11/2022 at 18:19 (389 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)        

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Natural gas appliances rarely, if ever blow up or explode. Has it happened? Yes, but is extremely rare for that to happen. You have a higher probability of getting zapped from electricity than have a natural gas appliance explode in front of you.

For those who complain about natural gas appliances, youíd be thousands richer and would have the luxury of being able to use your stove top if the power were to be out for a day or two.

Bradfordwhite, I think youíve been watching too many Live Better Electrically commercials from the 50ís and 60ís since GE and Westinghouse tried to convince people that having all electric homes were better but didnít mention what the monthly electric bills and such would be. Many of those Medallion homes there were all electric many years ago have all been converted to natural gas since the owners of those homes were tired of $500+ electric bills each month.


Post# 1139047 , Reply# 15   1/11/2022 at 19:20 (389 days old) by weed30 (St. Louis, MO)        

Maytag85 - Absolutely right on using gas appliances during a power outage! My current range is a 90's Hotpoint and I've appreciated that I can still make coffee when the power is out. (I use a Chemex so I need to heat water.) As far as the scary videos, the explosions were caused by workers drilling into a main line, not an individual appliance blowing up. I'm feeling better about getting a vintage range now, so thank you.

Post# 1139048 , Reply# 16   1/11/2022 at 19:28 (389 days old) by rickr (.)        

rickr's profile picture
@ Kenny, it is what it is, and ya know it's the truth.... Just the same, it is cold outside, and it is time to see "what's up" :-) @ Weed30, that looks like a very nice Caloric. I would scoop that one up in a hurry!

Post# 1139052 , Reply# 17   1/11/2022 at 19:45 (389 days old) by weed30 (St. Louis, MO)        

@rickr - yes it's a very nice range. There are SO many great appliances for sale around my area! I'm going to make a few calls to be sure there are no restrictions for installing old ranges.

Post# 1139053 , Reply# 18   1/11/2022 at 20:10 (389 days old) by bradfordwhite (West Coast, U.S.)        
LOL

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"I'm feeling better about getting a vintage range now, so thank you."


Oh yes, take solace in the words of a few of AW-lands John Belushi based characters who will walk into a room half soaked with a cigarette in their mouth and are willing to take anyone up on a dare, even in a stupor.

"gas appliances only leak som-e, sometimes......s-no big, sno big deal. AAHHHHH Fah-getta-bottit. Mr. got a light?"

-----

I could see getting a gas stove for decorative purposes.

But there is a reason why several significant municipalities are pushing to eliminate gas appliances altogether.

And remember, it isn't JUST appliances that explode, it's ANYWHERE in the piping network. 

That's what counts.

  All it takes is a loose fitting, a rotten seal on a valve, a rusted out pipe.... either inside or out.   

I've seen my share and I don't even work in the gas servicing industry.

I've mitigated at least a dozen 'situations' in my life.  



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Post# 1139054 , Reply# 19   1/11/2022 at 20:12 (389 days old) by wayupnorth (On a lake between Bangor and Bar Harbor, Maine)        

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Yes, even Ultramatic would give his approval too. That is a C/P range with pilots and a thermocouple for the oven pilot. There should not be a problem being installed. Its the manual light models that todays people would just turn it on and dont know that they have to light it by hand, thats why they are outlawed here because they will explode.

Post# 1139055 , Reply# 20   1/11/2022 at 20:27 (389 days old) by Keith (Connecticut )        
Merrimack valley gas explosionsÖ

Happened about an hour away from me. Remember it well. People were out of their homes for over 5 months in some cases waiting for the gas to be turned back on. Due to line over pressurization.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merrimac...

Never gas for me than you. ďMore likely to get zapped from electricĒ- false.





Post# 1139056 , Reply# 21   1/11/2022 at 20:29 (389 days old) by bradfordwhite (West Coast, U.S.)        

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Most people who get zapped live.   It's just a zap.

 

 


Post# 1139060 , Reply# 22   1/11/2022 at 21:04 (389 days old) by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

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Electric can fail and burn.

Found this few days ago when repairing the drum rollers on the dryer at one of RJ's rental properties.



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Post# 1139064 , Reply# 23   1/11/2022 at 21:29 (389 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Gas Oven Control Systems

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The first type of gas ovens you just turned the gas and lit it, very simple and energy efficient with no constant burning pilot, temperature was regulated by opening and closing a gas valve and later a thermostat was added that regulated gas flow.

 

Second type had a constant burning pilot that heated a thermocouple which generates a very small amount of current which keeps a magnet safety valve open in the control whenever the pilot is burning. This type of control was widely used from around 1940-1960, when you turn on an oven with a TC system the oven comes on instantly and when the oven gets to set temperature the flame just modulates down but does not go out, this type of modulated control were the best baking and had the most constant heat.

 

Third type used a constant burning pilot that heated a mercury safety valve, when the oven was turned on the pilot size increased and heated the mercury valve sensor and then gas flowed to the main burner. This type control was widely used from 1960 till the end of constant burning Politics ranges only 10 or so years ago. On this system if the pilot blows out the gas for the tiny pilot still flows.

 

Around 1977 gas ovens started to use hot surface electric ignitors, California banded constant burning pilots in dryers and ranges around 1977, it took till the Obama administration to get this expanded nationwide.

 

Hot Surface Ignitors are simple but use a good amount of electricity and wear out in 2-10 years depending on how much you use your oven. Replacing HSI is the number one major home appliance today.

 

There are many other variations of gas oven controls out there, my favorite today is Whirlpools Direct Spark Ignition DSI , this system WP introduced around 1999 and uses a spark like top burners use, it is instant and uses almost no power and should not give any problems in the life of most gas ranges.

 

John L.


Post# 1139066 , Reply# 24   1/11/2022 at 21:54 (389 days old) by wayupnorth (On a lake between Bangor and Bar Harbor, Maine)        

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Yes John, my 1995 Whirlpool has the clicker spark for both the top and oven. Best thing is with no power, you can use top and oven by lighting by hand.

Post# 1139068 , Reply# 25   1/11/2022 at 22:24 (389 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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would I?...in a heartbeat!







Post# 1139071 , Reply# 26   1/12/2022 at 03:52 (389 days old) by SudsMaster (California)        

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I grew up with gas ranges for most of my life. When I bought this house some 25 years ago, all it had was electric. Yeech. One of the first things I did was convert the cooktop from electric to gas. I left the built-in wall oven electric. It's OK.

My favorite gas range is the Wedgewood brand. Well made, and nice looking.

We never had a problem with gas leaks or explosions. Sometimes the burner pilots would go out, and from an early age I learned how to adjust and re-light them. I agree it's a minuscule amount of energy for a pilot light.

I prefer gas for cooktops. For ovens, it's sort of a wash.


Post# 1139077 , Reply# 27   1/12/2022 at 05:41 (389 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

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Because we had huge resources of natural gas most people here cook on gas. Nobody I know ever had a problem with it, so it looks relatively safe. However some disturbed people have used it to make an end their lives. A miracle some of them even survived it and most neighbours survived too. I guess it's safer to force them to use an electric cooker. They can do less harm with those.

The second picture is of an explosion caused by a man who wanted to blow himself up to go to heaven to meet his mother.


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Post# 1139080 , Reply# 28   1/12/2022 at 05:51 (389 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

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I use and love my gas range, to bad I have gotten a wee but behind on cleaning her, if I'm too tired right after the meal is done, and the stove is too hot, then I'm even more tired after eating...

Someone long ago disconnected the gas main to her house to do such a similar attempt she actually survived and actually stayed at the hospital I worked at, overheard that she was in the ER then later our psych ward for that days later, so I saw her come in for the burn treatment... The hisses was completely gutted, right down to seeing the side by side refrigerator with the doors taken off sticking out like a sore thumb, amongst all the blown up and burned up debris...


-- Dave


Post# 1139088 , Reply# 29   1/12/2022 at 07:48 (388 days old) by weed30 (St. Louis, MO)        

@combo52 - thank you for all of this information. Quite interesting and well explained.

Post# 1139112 , Reply# 30   1/12/2022 at 15:47 (388 days old) by bradfordwhite (West Coast, U.S.)        

bradfordwhite's profile picture
#22
That's not a burned ANYTHING. It's melted and/corroded.
It's an $8 cord that can easily be changed and last another 20 years.
It didn't explode. It didn't burn.

Something like that rarely happens but I've seen such a thing when the dryer outlet got wet from the basement window. The water ran down the wall and into the outlet.

----

#27
Never thought about that but yeah. WHO hasn't seen in movies or heard about stories of someone who wants to "end it all" so they put their head in the oven.
A GAS oven.
I def. believe there should be dignified euthanasia of people who so choose.
Don't want people doing crazy destructive things like that apartment building.






Post# 1139124 , Reply# 31   1/12/2022 at 17:01 (388 days old) by gizmo (Victoria, Australia)        
WHO hasn't seen in movies or heard about

"WHO hasn't seen in movies or heard about stories of someone who wants to "end it all" so they put their head in the oven.
A GAS oven."

 

Yes but it only happens in the movies. In the real world, gas ovens have a thermocouple safety system so that if there is no flame to consume the gas, the gas supply shuts off in seconds. Don't believe what you see in movies.


Post# 1139126 , Reply# 32   1/12/2022 at 17:11 (388 days old) by bradfordwhite (West Coast, U.S.)        

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"It just NEVER happens....."  until it happens to YOU!

 

Thing is, even if your home, and your neighbors home is free from gas or gas leaks, if the next house down explodes or catches fire, it can damage the homes all around it.

 

And look at the apartment or condos like the ones above.  What happens to those people who didn't live directly in the unit(s) that were demolished.  How was their lives changed in an instant?



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Post# 1139131 , Reply# 33   1/12/2022 at 17:36 (388 days old) by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

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$8 cord, LOL.† Replacement cord was $18 at the local builder/home improvement supply.† Plus the receptacle.


Post# 1139135 , Reply# 34   1/12/2022 at 18:25 (388 days old) by mattl (Flushing, MI)        
re:#22 and life in general

While that corroded plug did not start a fire at some point it could have with enough current flowing through it.

Life has no perfectly safe options, you can choke and die eating dinner. Cars can burst into flames under certain conditions, a powerline can fall and kill you, and yes a gas line can leak. But we do our best to mitigate the danger. That is the best we can do - that's modern life.

If you are terrified of some aspect of modern life do all you can to avoid it but if a vast portion of the population has zero issues with a product or service there is no reason to fight against it and ever try to outlaw it.


Post# 1139139 , Reply# 35   1/12/2022 at 18:39 (388 days old) by bradfordwhite (West Coast, U.S.)        
Making life better.

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The "reason to fight against it and ever try to outlaw it"
is because
"we do our best to mitigate the danger. That is the best we can do - that's modern life."

---
It wasn't that long ago that people were literally smoking as though it was acceptable and healthy. And they would do inside buildings. disGUSTING ! Contaminating other people and all the furnishings.

People were even smoking inside Hospitals.   Unthinkable! 

Now, because people stood up and pushed society FORWARD, that is no longer done.
Progress.

And there are many other examples.


Post# 1139140 , Reply# 36   1/12/2022 at 18:42 (388 days old) by Revvinkevin (Tinseltown - Shakey Town - La-La Land)        

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Weed30 (AND Bradfordwhite):

I just want to add I grew up with a gas stove and have had at least a gas cook top in every home Iíve lived in. My mom has had the same OíKeefe & Merrrit stove with 24-7 pilot lights for nearly 60 years now and NOT ONCE has she OR the house blown up. Just sayinÖÖ 😉


Post# 1139141 , Reply# 37   1/12/2022 at 18:53 (388 days old) by qsd-dan (West)        

qsd-dan's profile picture

Buy the range

Buy a carbon monoxide detector

Live life


Post# 1139146 , Reply# 38   1/12/2022 at 19:12 (388 days old) by wayupnorth (On a lake between Bangor and Bar Harbor, Maine)        

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And buy a Propane/Natural gas detector to be located by every gas product in your home. Maine now requires all new buildings using gas to install these. I suppose they will smell the gas leak before you can. The ruling was due to a new building having a concrete barrier set that severed a gas line and a custodian smelled gas upon entering, called the fire dept. and the building exploded, killing a fireman in Farmington.

Post# 1139147 , Reply# 39   1/12/2022 at 19:20 (388 days old) by bradfordwhite (West Coast, U.S.)        

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I used to like gas APPLIANCES too,

.....before I realized how dangerous they are. 

  

In fact, I wanted a gas stove when I built my second house and really liked having it.  It was a mid 90s GE

I don't know why.  I liked the smell of gas. I liked the instant on and off.  I remember the first time making muffins in the oven.

 

Had a gas furnace and water heater and two fireplaces.  

 

But, I didn't realize how dangerous they,

the pipe network that makes them work,

AND the efforts that are involved in making NG and Propane gas .....is

 

 

We don't see most of those things.  We only see the appliances!  That's not reality.

 

As adults, we learn, we make informed educated decisions.  

 

Natural gas should never have been piped to residential housing units.  It's too dangerous. 

Fossil fuels are declining literally.  That's one reason why we have electric cars coming on strong.  

 

---

There are people around who used to drink alcohol heavily, or smoke cigarettes... until they got educated.

If they are smart and concerned, they changed their lives and eliminated the bad habits.

 

That gas network of piping..... that's buried in the streets....in your neighborhood.....in the walls in your house.....it's getting older and rustier every minute that goes by.   

 

I thank the people who made life better with the gas systems but it's time to move forward and BEYOND.


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Post# 1139148 , Reply# 40   1/12/2022 at 19:33 (388 days old) by bradfordwhite (West Coast, U.S.)        
Propane/Natural gas detector

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Yes, a home I was remodeling in 1999 I put in a plug-in one, in a specially installed outlet 12" down from the ceiling in the hallway.  

 

I had to redo the gas piping in the basement  because I was moving the furnace, water heater, and the stove.  It was Fall and the heat had been on.  I turned off the heat because I turned off the gas at the meter

 

BUT the valve on the meter didn't turn the gas all the way off.  (ding, ding, ding)

 

There was a small leak which I really didn't think too much of.

 

I dismantled the piping to re-configure the lines.  Starting at the meter I installed the pipes.  Because there was a bit of gas coming through the lines it was coming inside.  

 

It was only a matter of time before that sensor went off upstairs.  I opened the windows on that windy day.

 

They do work. 

 

My question is: for how long?

 

And will they lose effectiveness over time?

 

Will dusty conditions hamper their ability to detect?  There are plenty of people who are messy.

 

And will power surges quietly fry the electronics?  

 

Also, what if you aren't home when a leak starts?  The detector is useless then.

 

And what if you get a defective unit that the light stays on making you think everything is fine?  Are you going to hinge your whole life on a detector like that?


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Post# 1139168 , Reply# 41   1/12/2022 at 23:43 (388 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

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The man who blew up the apartment building overhere in the Netherlands didn't put his head in the oven like in a movie. He just disconnected a gas appliance and turned the gas valve open and lighted something after a while. We have had a few gas explosions too that weren't deliberate, but were caused by a leak or a faulty connection. It might not happen too often, but the danger is real.

Post# 1139175 , Reply# 42   1/13/2022 at 03:45 (388 days old) by goatfarmer (South Bend, home of Champions)        

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If you're going to worry about everything that  might  happen, might as well stay in bed and hide under the covers.


Post# 1139179 , Reply# 43   1/13/2022 at 04:44 (388 days old) by Stan (Napa CA)        
Hi

stan's profile picture
Iíve been cooking on this 1919 gas stove for 30 years
All burners and oven half to be match lit, as there are no standing pilot lights.
No gage on oven to set oven temp.
It works just fine, has never leaked.
Thereís a 88 year old gas floor furnace in a hallway (not far from the stove) with original Thermostatic control still functioning.
I ainít scared. Get what makes you happy dude.


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Post# 1139185 , Reply# 44   1/13/2022 at 08:51 (387 days old) by vacbear58 (Sutton In Ashfield, East Midlands, UK)        
Kidde Carbon Monoxide Alarm

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I recently installed one of these (Kidde unit), not for a gas appliance but in a room where there is a wood burning stove installed. The instructions specifically state that it has a life of 10 years and should be discarded after that time.

Post# 1139186 , Reply# 45   1/13/2022 at 09:56 (387 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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Kenny....you NAILED it!


Post# 1139187 , Reply# 46   1/13/2022 at 10:05 (387 days old) by rickr (.)        

rickr's profile picture
Once again, Kenny hit the nail right on the head. And as for all the doom, gloom, and BOOM, get back on your meds and you will be fine in no time.

Post# 1139192 , Reply# 47   1/13/2022 at 10:53 (387 days old) by Maytagbear (N.E. Ohio)        
Both

gas and electricity are powerful and are capable of severe damages.  However, as long as one pays respectful attention, all will  be well.    It would not be life as we currently know and enjoy it without gas and electricity.

 

Lawrence/Maytagbear


Post# 1139193 , Reply# 48   1/13/2022 at 10:54 (387 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

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Rickr....so good to see you posting again....

Post# 1139194 , Reply# 49   1/13/2022 at 11:13 (387 days old) by weed30 (St. Louis, MO)        

Thanks all - I am now debating between two beautiful ranges, a Tappan and a Caloric. I like the design of the Tappan better, but the Caloric was recently inspected and is closer to me. Waiting for an installer to let me know if he'll do the job, then have to figure out pickup/delivery which will no doubt cost more than the range foot-in-mouth


Post# 1139195 , Reply# 50   1/13/2022 at 11:14 (387 days old) by bradfordwhite (West Coast, U.S.)        

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"It would not be life as we currently know and enjoy it without gas and electricity."

Lots of people live their lives without the threats and benefits that NG or propane appliances can provide. Gas is NOT inevitable.

I've lived probably half my life without gas in my homes.

On the other hand, life is almost unimaginable without some form of electricity.


Gas in the home can only power a max of about 5 dirty appliances:

water heater,

furnace/heater,

fireplace (not as popular as they once were), 

dryer (yuck),

stove,

& the odd pool heater.

However nearly all use electricity to power the controller components.

And of course electric powers an endless list of other devices.

Electric is clean, quiet (that is a POSITIVE benefit, just to clarify), easy to control, 100% efficient, and you can even make it with your own solar panel array. Talk about self sufficient.  So awesome.


Post# 1139202 , Reply# 51   1/13/2022 at 12:05 (387 days old) by Oliger (Indianapolis, Indiana)        

I live in a historic neighborhood where more than 2,000 houses are 100+ years old. Almost all the houses have gas appliances. In 100+ years only a few have burned down. Mostly from arson, or old wiring. The house I grew up in was built in 1910 and still has it's original gas pipes, 112 years old. It has a 60's magic chef gas stove with 3 standing pilots, gas water heater with a standing pilot, gas furnace with standing pilot, gas fireplace, and a gas dryer.
Long story short, the stove has had a pilot light go out twice in 23 years. You could smell it long before it became dangerous. The house isn't even remotely air tight, it would have taken days for an explosive amount of gas to build up. No other problems, and I haven't known anyone who has had any problems with gas either.


Post# 1139244 , Reply# 52   1/13/2022 at 14:31 (387 days old) by Yogitunes (New Jersey)        

yogitunes's profile picture
for many areas.....GAS is way cheaper than Electric.....

and your right, electrical fires never happen!

I have gas powered- stove, water heater, boiler, 3 dryers, gas grill, and backup generator- you know because electric never goes out, yet gas is still available....I will figure out how to get a gas fireplace installed.....

now if you want to pay for all new electrical appliances, and run all the electrical wiring needed, and pay my electrical bill...I am all ears, and have at it....

but until the day comes that you pay my bills, I will buy and choose to use what ever I damn well please....

opinions are like assholes, every one has one!...


Post# 1139248 , Reply# 53   1/13/2022 at 14:54 (387 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806)        

maytag85's profile picture
I agree with Yogitones, Gas is miles cheaper than electric. If electricity were cheap as water, then it would be more economical since it would be cheaper than natural gas but life and reality completely changes the cost of everything. Many people believed electricity in the 50ís and 60ís would be too cheap to meter since more nuclear power plants would be built and there would be a over abundance of it but since few were built, life and reality changed everything since electricity has gone up in price since the 70ís, and went up again in the 2000ís.



Post# 1139255 , Reply# 54   1/13/2022 at 15:34 (387 days old) by foraloysius (Leeuwarden, Friesland, the Netherlands)        

foraloysius's profile picture
"get back on your meds and you will be fine in no time"

Let's keep things civilized here please.


Post# 1139263 , Reply# 55   1/13/2022 at 17:25 (387 days old) by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.)        

ea56's profile picture

The way so many here get so agitated about the prospect of having gas outlawed, it reminds me of Charlton Heston saying that they would have to pry his guns out of his cold, dead hands.  Calm down!  

 

You like gas, then use it.  There’s no need to get vicious with those that prefer electricity.   Some of us have no choice but to use electricity as we don’t have gas service.  You can get used to whatever your circumstances require and adapt.  I had to do so over 27 years ago and it didn’t rock my world.  And I actually learned over the years that I prefer electric heat, and I always preferred cooking with an electric stove.   Tomato, tamato, potato, patato, lets call the whole thing off.

 

Electricity handled improperly can electrocute and kill and gas handled improperly can explode or asphyxiate, both can be deadly if not used carefully with proper respect for the danger they may present.

 

Yes, electricity can be expensive, but as far as I know gas ain’t free either.  And should the companies that supply gas service decide to someday bring the price of gas up to the price of electricity you’ll all be at their mercy.

 

Eddie


Post# 1139276 , Reply# 56   1/13/2022 at 20:17 (387 days old) by bradfordwhite (West Coast, U.S.)        

bradfordwhite's profile picture

The average price for a BTU of NG has nearly DOUBLED since 2020.

 

No wonder a few people are nervous. 

 

---

 

I started paying attention to electric rates in 2010.  For the last year I've been paying about 0.11 pr KWH. and it's always been within a few cents of that. 

 

 

The only time it was significantly different is when I signed up for Time-of-Use metering back in 2010. 

There my KWH rate was 0.06 per KWH except during two 3 hour periods on week days. 

Those were from about 9 am to noon AND 5 pm to 8pm, when the rates were 0.24 cents a KWH. 

That was great. Of course my water heater was on a crank switch and the heaters were on timers.

I used very little electric during that time and my highest bill was about $160 during February.  This was in the upper midwest (freeze your weenie off) and I used electric heat and everything else was electric.

 

I remember going into the office to pay my bill in February.  I mentioned my concern for how high my bill was to the girl at the desk.  She looked at it and was like "I don't know what YOU'RE doing but that's quite reasonable.  Some of these people have $800 and $1000 a month bills"  

I was kind of shocked and then quite proud.   lol

 

----

 

If electric rates fluctuated like they apparently do for NG I'd have wet panties too.



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Post# 1139283 , Reply# 57   1/13/2022 at 21:11 (387 days old) by weed30 (St. Louis, MO)        

Update: I'm now leaning towards the Tappan because it's just so great looking! It's missing one burner knob, but seller thinks she might be able to find it. Even if she can't I'll scour ebay and a few other sites to find a replacement. Otherwise it's super clean and the chrome is perfecto.  I'm hoping to hear from an installer and a mover tomorrow.


Post# 1139285 , Reply# 58   1/13/2022 at 21:18 (387 days old) by bradfordwhite (West Coast, U.S.)        

bradfordwhite's profile picture

Any pics?


Post# 1139404 , Reply# 59   1/15/2022 at 12:00 (385 days old) by Combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Residential natural gas prices

combo52's profile picture
Have barely changed at all in the last decade, they are regulated after all which protects you from the swings that you see in those charts.

Theyíve actually come down a little bit over the last two months in fact.

My natural gas bill for my house averages between 70 and $80 a month a year round, I have six gas dryers a gas hot tub heater to gas furnaces to gas water heaters one gas range outside.

I can only imagine what it would be if everything were electric cost that is.

John L


Post# 1139411 , Reply# 60   1/15/2022 at 13:47 (385 days old) by bradfordwhite (West Coast, U.S.)        

bradfordwhite's profile picture

Just realized those prices are for the commodities trading market. When traders on "Wallstreet" buy and sell commodities like natural gas futures.  Those are like wholesale prices.

 

Consumer delivered prices are different.

 

While in fact consumer prices have been trending up since 2015 for Natural Gas, they haven't exactly doubled.... unless one looks at the monthly costs.

 

Are these quotes from the U.S. Energy Information Administration what consumers see on their bills?

 

A year ago January the price was $9.68 but by August the cost was almost $21  ?

 

I haven't had gas service since 2006 for, what was then, a 10 year old home in Franklin, MA. All I remember is it was about $283 for the gas for the last January bill. That was with a new 92% efficient gas furnace.  I never looked at the details of the bills back then.  During the summer months the gas bill was very little as I only had a gas water heater and stove and kept the water heater a timer. 

 

It sounds like you have signed up for budget billing which averages out the anticipated cost of gas service for a 12 month period so you get a flat amount during the preceding period.  And of course just having a number of appliances doesn't mean they cost anything to own if they aren't being used frequently.  Doing three loads of drying in a gas dryer isn't going to cost any more if it's all done in one dryer or if each load is done in another dryer.

 

 

----

 

Anyway,  I need pictures of these used prospective midwestern stoves that someone who can't deliver them, or install them, and isn't quite sure what to get.... is anxious to run out and purchase during this frigid month of January. 

 

It is interesting that one would make the statement about a stove: "...But...they scare me because they have continuously burning pilot lights. If one stops burning somehow I'm terrified of it blowing up. Not so much the cooktop burners as much as the oven. I once lived in an apartment with an old gas range and relit the burners with only marginal fear. The oven though...it is in my head that if the oven pilot goes out, the oven fills with gas..."

but then anxiously pursue having one installed.  The average daily masochist is preferred I suppose to other personalities.  Life is just an abundant variety.

 

Anyway, the stove pictured above looks clean.

 



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Post# 1139419 , Reply# 61   1/15/2022 at 14:09 (385 days old) by steved (Guilderland, New York)        
Residential natural gas prices

Our natural gas supplier, National Grid, has raised the price per therm from .42 in Dec 2020 to .61 this month. No bargain there! Thank god our Trane furnace is 97% efficent.

Post# 1139424 , Reply# 62   1/15/2022 at 14:24 (385 days old) by weed30 (St. Louis, MO)        

Anyway,  I need pictures of these used prospective midwestern stoves that someone who can't deliver them, or install them, and isn't quite sure what to get.... is anxious to run out and purchase during this frigid month of January. 

 It is interesting that one would make the statement about a stove: "...But...they scare me because they have continuously burning pilot lights. If one stops burning somehow I'm terrified of it blowing up. Not so much the cooktop burners as much as the oven. I once lived in an apartment with an old gas range and relit the burners with only marginal fear. The oven though...it is in my head that if the oven pilot goes out, the oven fills with gas..."

but then anxiously pursue having one installed.  The average daily masochist is preferred I suppose to other personalities.  Life is just an abundant variety.

 

Really dude? I get that you are against gas, but check your condescension. I specifically posted here to learn about vintage gas range safety rather than rushing into a purchase, and my question was thoroughly and politely answered by others.


Post# 1139428 , Reply# 63   1/15/2022 at 14:51 (385 days old) by bradfordwhite (West Coast, U.S.)        

bradfordwhite's profile picture

It's not condescension but merely observation.

 

You brought forth your concerns, and you've received numerous credible opinions and advice.

 

AND...you've been a member since 2010.  You know how we roll.

 

 

Any pics?

Have you decided what your going to get?  We want to support your decision otherwise we wouldn't have bothered to comment.


Post# 1139430 , Reply# 64   1/15/2022 at 15:12 (385 days old) by kimball455 (Cape May, NJ)        

kimball455's profile picture

Hi ..

Just over two years ago a ground fault interrupter with nothing attached decided to set my house on fire. Here are pictures. The first is the remains of the GFI that started the fire. The others are the kitchen the day after the fire. This resulted in the entire house being gutted and rebuild. Even though the fire was limited to the kitchen, the entire house was damaged by smoke and soot. Just about everything, including a large number of antiques along with a number of vintage small appliances and electric fans, went in the dumpster. I was out of my house for just over 18 months.

I have had gas cooking for almost my entire life other than when I lived in an area where gas was not available. My home in Cape May has always had gas heating and cooking. Never had an issue with the pilot light even when I was using the 1930 era stove that was in the house when I got it. Today I have a dual fuel range. I prefer an electric oven. Heat is a condensing gas boiler for hot water baseboard and domestic hot water. I have a gas fireplace. It does not have a standing pilot, it has a remote electric start and a battery backup. Anything can go wrong when you least expect it. In this case, what is supposed to be a safety device really went wrong. Talking with a forensic architect I learned that while very uncommon, GFI can start fires.  The restoration of my house, fortunately, covered by insurance, was $650,000.  I essentialy have an 1865 house with a 2021 interior. This was after I did a major remodel in 2010 where I replaced all of the major systems, HVAC, electric, etc. along with a new kitchen. 

 

Harry


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Post# 1139434 , Reply# 65   1/15/2022 at 15:28 (385 days old) by bradfordwhite (West Coast, U.S.)        
I'm not sure ...

bradfordwhite's profile picture

"...I essentia(l)ly have an 1865 house with a 2021 interior."

 

Are you stating this as if it were a problem, or a benefit? 

 

Many people already have the "1865 house", or older house, part ...

but many can only dream of having a rare freak accident happen that would allow them to have a $650,000 insurance paid "2021 interior".

 

Frankly, it almost sounds like lightening struck the house.  I'll bet the insurance covered your hotel and 18 months of rent somewhere?  I'm wishing I was YOU now.   lol.


Post# 1139437 , Reply# 66   1/15/2022 at 16:14 (385 days old) by weed30 (St. Louis, MO)        

kimball455 - whoa! That looks terrifying. I'm sorry you lost everything, but glad you are OK. My old neighbor's house caught fire and was a total loss as well. Main fire in the utility room but the entire house filled with smoke, soot, and water from the fire dept. I went inside a few days afterwards and had to walk back out just a few minutes later due to the lingering toxic fumes from whatever had burned.


Post# 1139440 , Reply# 67   1/15/2022 at 16:29 (385 days old) by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.)        
Re: Reply #65

ea56's profile picture
I donít know anyone in their right mind that would welcome a catastrophic fire just to get a $650,000 remodel. That kind of disaster would be totally life upsetting, certainly not worth the upset to your life.

Here in Sonoma County many unfortunate home owners know first hand and only too well what its like to lose everything in a flash due to wildfires. Believe me, Iíve not heard of a single one of these unfortunate souls that was thankful for getting a new home after these tragic fires.

Harry, (kimball455) Iím so sorry that you had to go through the burning of your home this way. Iíll bet that given the choice youíd have gladly kept what you had and avoided the remodel. Must have lost many irreplaceable things. Thank god you didnít lose your life.

Eddie


Post# 1139450 , Reply# 68   1/15/2022 at 16:54 (385 days old) by kimball455 (Cape May, NJ)        

kimball455's profile picture

Hi ... Well, yes it is nice having the second remodel in 10 years but the loss of both physical items and some of my cats in the fire was not fun. Thanks to smoke alarms I got out of the house with only a minor burn on my arm. The fire started around 11 PM, I had gone to bed. My house is a contributing house to the Cape May National Landmark designation. One reason for the cost was any restoration (exterior) had to meet preservation standards. This added greatly to the cost. For example, no vinyl or any 'modern' material anything.  HVAC has to be hidden with lattice, that kind of thing. It all adds to the expense. Windows had to be true divided 6 over 6 lights in wood. All of this, as I said greatly increased the cost. All of the work had to be approved by the Historic Preservation Commission. Fortunately, I did not have to do a presentation to the entire Commission, by selecting appropriate materials and designs approval could be by committee saving both me and the contractor time and money. 

I found a picture of the gas stove that was in the house when I got it ... this is from the web. A Magic Chief with a standing pilot for the surface units and a manually lit and controlled oven. There was no pilot light for the oven, you lit the burner with a match. There was no temp control on the over, you adjusted the flame the same way that you adjusted the surface units.  With the walls ripped out it was interesting to see the original but retired knob and tubing for electricity. There was even a wasp nest hiding in the wall. Here's a look at the exterior after the restoration. Yes, that is a FRAGILE Leg Lamp in the window.

 

Harry

 


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Post# 1139452 , Reply# 69   1/15/2022 at 16:58 (385 days old) by kimball455 (Cape May, NJ)        

This post has been removed by the member who posted it.



Post# 1139453 , Reply# 70   1/15/2022 at 17:02 (385 days old) by bradfordwhite (West Coast, U.S.)        

bradfordwhite's profile picture
"Thank god you didnít lose your life."

See that's the important thing.

Sure most people would probably deny all the negative stuff but...
when it gets down to it....
I've no doubt a lot of people are better off after such a disaster.

It's like when a teenager ran into my 4 y.o. Toyota a number of years ago. I bought it new, paid cash for it. It had 61,000 miles on it and running perfect. It was the longest I ever held a vehicle.

BANG at a busy intersection in Hopkinton, MA., they hit the front corner and ultimately the insurance co. totalled the vehicle I paid $19K for. I went into shock. Did I want to lose it? NO!

Then the insurance co. gave me a check for $18,500. More than I imagined. It took the edge off shall we say. I would never have got that by selling the 4 y.o. vehicle. I wasn't hurt. Just a bit of shock. It was worth it.

Be honest now, if you could get $650K worth of Insurance paid work done to your home,
you'd have a certain giddiness.


Post# 1139455 , Reply# 71   1/15/2022 at 17:18 (385 days old) by kimball455 (Cape May, NJ)        

kimball455's profile picture

Hello Again ... 

 

One important thing to know from this is should a disaster ever happen get a private adjustor to do all of the interaction with the insurance company. The adjuster brought in professionals for everything. One specialist did the loss of items inventory. It was over 100 pages and it even listed the cat litter pans and assigned a value to each.  Yes, as WEED30 said, the smoke and soot go everywhere and essentially destroy everything. A kind of mist hung in the house for several days. You cannot clean that fine particulate matter away, it is in everything even if there was no fire or water damage to the item. As an example, I tried to clean some Corningware by putting it in the dishwasher. That did not work. A very high level of detail is needed to get the most from your claim. The adjuster will help you with getting the necessary contractor(s) for cleanup and restoration. The adjuster will do everything to get you everything that the insurance company owes you for repair/restoration etc. In any case, it was not fun. Here in the Cape May area, annual or long term rentals are very difficult to find, you can make more money with less hassle with weekly rentals during season. Fortunately, my partner Ralph (some of you have met him) has a cottage near Cape May and I was able to stay there for the duration of the work. The post I removed was a duplication. 

 

Harry

 

 


Post# 1139456 , Reply# 72   1/15/2022 at 17:24 (385 days old) by bradfordwhite (West Coast, U.S.)        

bradfordwhite's profile picture
What a cute house. And look at how clean the shell is.
Was it like this everywhere?
Were you able to at least use drywall on the inside and insulate the exterior walls?

Yeah, I would relive your tragedy and outcome. lol.

---


It's like the WTC lawsuit and all that stuff that happened after 9/11.

Joan Rivers (may the broad RIP, lol) did a bit based on the wives of the paramedics that died and received compensation. She said something like "what if it were discovered that they actually didn't die, but you had to give back the settlement as a result? You know THAT they'd TAKE THE MONEY! They're not giving that check back." LOL.




Post# 1139459 , Reply# 73   1/15/2022 at 17:34 (385 days old) by bradfordwhite (West Coast, U.S.)        
OK

bradfordwhite's profile picture
That's IT. That is IT!

"...my partner Ralph (some of you have met him) has a cottage near Cape May and I was able to stay there for the duration of the work."

And, AND this adorable man
has a partner
who lives nearby
and has his own, no doubt, cute cottage.

OHHHHH!

Did you just come here to brighten my day with your sunny stories of optimism? Thank-you for that. You are GOALS sir.


Post# 1139566 , Reply# 74   1/17/2022 at 00:35 (384 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        

askolover's profile picture

Statistically, gas is safer.  You smell it LOOOOONG before there's enough to burn or explode.  Electric wires can be melting inside your walls or breaker box for years without being noticed.  My house was all electric when it was built in 1956.  I believe it was the second owner who worked for the gas company.  Apparently at some point all that electric wattage took its toll and melted the wires in the power box.  He took out everything with high wattage draw and switched to gas.  The highest power draw here now is the central AC in the summer.  My old Caloric had pilots.  Occasionally if I had the kitchen window open and a good breeze blew through it would blow the pilots out.  I'd smell it soon enough and just relight them. 


Post# 1139607 , Reply# 75   1/17/2022 at 13:00 (383 days old) by robbinsandmyers (Conn)        


robbinsandmyers's profile picture

" If electric rates fluctuated like they apparently do for NG I'd have wet panties too. "

 

 Here in CT The United Illuminating Co raised rates 50% for homeowners several years ago and a little more than that for commercial users. And they got away with it, even raising them again a few years ago.  I wouldnt call those fluctuations. More like anal violations. On the other hand The Southern Conn Gas Co hasnt raised their rates anywhere near what UI has in the last decade. I'll keep my gas stove, gas hot water heater, and gas furnace thank you.


Post# 1139610 , Reply# 76   1/17/2022 at 14:07 (383 days old) by bradfordwhite (West Coast, U.S.)        

bradfordwhite's profile picture

Thank goodness with cheap solar and efficiency strides people can make their own electric.

It's good when rates get raised, regardless of what the fuel source. It gets those who are lazy and complacent about efficiency to stop wasting.

The way some people act you'd think they thought they were entitled to cheap gasoline, cheap electric, cheap natural gas. Especially here in the U.S.

No, we aren't. Sure it's nice to have affordable rates but....not entitled.

I can't wait to see a certain sector scramble when gasoline prices go up.
"oh oh-h, my unneeded bulky SUV and stupid 4 wheel drive truck. I can't afford to wastefully drive it and show off"

lol.

No need to worry. Driving a heap of fossil fuel burning scrap metal on wheels isn't showing off anything but stupidity.

 

Electric is the way forward.  It's abundant and easily made. Gas production however is seriously in decline.  Pinning one's hopes and future on powering the few appliances it does, is foolish.

The numbers show that to be true.  It's like coal or wood.  It's over.  Declining.

 

But you can collect old appliances even if they used gas.  I'll take mine in a plethora of colors.  Nice display pieces.

 

Remember these?  People collect them.  A family friend had something like this outfitted with chrome screws as if in use the stinky air polluter would maintain that shine.  Get real.


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Post# 1139616 , Reply# 77   1/17/2022 at 14:34 (383 days old) by sarahperdue (Alabama)        
New renovation?

sarahperdue's profile picture
Hi Harry,

I am very sorry you had to go through a house fire and all of the awful things that come with it.

Our home here in Tuscaloosa was in the path of the 2011 tornadoes. We only had moderate damage while the house next door and many in our neighborhood were completely destroyed.

Our house had been flooding for many years as a result of the city's failure to maintain infrastructure, and there was a part of me that wished it had also been demolished. Every time I had that thought, I did a mental inventory of the irreplaceable things that would or could have been lost. I realized I was grateful it hadn't been. There is a better chance of salvaging things from a tornado damaged home than a fire, and I am still grateful ours wasn't demolished.

I do wish I'd had your advice about an independent adjuster. I'm not sure if such angles abide in Alabama, but many of my neighbors and I left a lot of money on the table because we didn't know how to negotiate the system. I'm am glad you were able to get an insurance settlement that took care of everything.

Sarah


Post# 1139617 , Reply# 78   1/17/2022 at 14:43 (383 days old) by wayupnorth (On a lake between Bangor and Bar Harbor, Maine)        

wayupnorth's profile picture
My 4WD truck is NOT stupid, it is a necessity here. There is no way I could charge an electric vehicle without a major investment in electrical upgrades plus where it is so cold here they loose their charge quicker, like my neighbors Prius does. You can toot your electric everything all you want but I am going to stay with oil, gas and an electric bill under $40 each month.

Post# 1139620 , Reply# 79   1/17/2022 at 14:55 (383 days old) by sarahperdue (Alabama)        
Gas vs Electric

sarahperdue's profile picture
This seems to be one of the most contentious arguments here on AW. Let's please play nicely when discussing this?

Gas vs electric has a lot to do with price, location and preference at this point.

Sixty percent of the electricity in the US is still produced by burning fossil fuels. That energy may be "clean" where you plug your device into the wall, but the production is not clean. Even though fossil fuel power generation plants have better emissions scrubbing devices than home appliances, there is still the carbon footprint and the loss of efficiency over transmission lines.

Some of the renewables have their own environmental impact and issues. Solar involves the production of photovoltaic panels and batteries. Electric cars also require the production of batteries. These have their own environmental impacts.

So, electricity might be a cleaner choice in areas where it is generated by renewables, but all electric power is not cleaner.

Sarah


CLICK HERE TO GO TO sarahperdue's LINK


Post# 1139621 , Reply# 80   1/17/2022 at 15:08 (383 days old) by bradfordwhite (West Coast, U.S.)        
Tim

bradfordwhite's profile picture

"4WD truck is NOT stupid"

 

I just read your post in the weather section.  I believe you.  All that ice and snow.

 

I was referring to the majority of urban/suburban cowboys who's vehicle's have only left pavement to pull of onto a shoulder on the freeway to change a flat.

 

Remember, Tesla's have 4 wheel drive, too.  Two independent motors.

 

  

 

 


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Post# 1139622 , Reply# 81   1/17/2022 at 15:11 (383 days old) by bradfordwhite (West Coast, U.S.)        

bradfordwhite's profile picture

And there are numerous charging options ....even in Maine.



CLICK HERE TO GO TO bradfordwhite's LINK

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Post# 1139623 , Reply# 82   1/17/2022 at 15:16 (383 days old) by bradfordwhite (West Coast, U.S.)        
I think you're correct Sarah

bradfordwhite's profile picture

"This seems to be one of the most contentious arguments here on AW."

 

I've noticed that too.  It's funny how some subjects that are important just go under the radar when they should get attention

But then others, that information about them is clearly out there, get a lot more attention as if for some people they'd never heard of the subject.


Post# 1139693 , Reply# 83   1/18/2022 at 04:49 (383 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)        

askolover's profile picture

Wait til a person has to replace the battery in a Prius, Leaf, or Tesla........grab your ankles and hold on!


Post# 1139698 , Reply# 84   1/18/2022 at 06:07 (383 days old) by robbinsandmyers (Conn)        

robbinsandmyers's profile picture

Mining for those batteries isnt the most environmentally friendly procedure either. But they mostly come from China and the Chinese govt  doesnt care about its own people let alone the planet.


Post# 1139741 , Reply# 85   1/18/2022 at 15:28 (382 days old) by bradfordwhite (West Coast, U.S.)        

bradfordwhite's profile picture
batteries are GOLD. Everybody wants them.
It's just like the way computers and internet was in the 90s and 00s.

Making the awesome electric vehicles is not a problem, ...but for the shortage of certain components right now.

We have to remember this is the newest and best technology.

-----

The 'it's not 100% clean manufacturing' excuse ......so I'm just going to stick with the terrible stinky petroleum garbage;
doesn't work.





Post# 1139742 , Reply# 86   1/18/2022 at 15:35 (382 days old) by bradfordwhite (West Coast, U.S.)        
oops

bradfordwhite's profile picture
Yet ANOTHER building explosion. 1 person dead, 9 injured, 3 buildings damaged beyond repair, others damaged.

It's only going to get worse. Those pipes are aging and rusting as we speak.
All it takes is one rusted spot or hair line crack....
in ANYONES neighborhood or home.






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Post# 1139747 , Reply# 87   1/18/2022 at 16:30 (382 days old) by weed30 (St. Louis, MO)        
More Questions re: range installation

Please disregard dirty floor behind the range embarassed

 

I haven't had the vintage range installed but need to make sure there is a shutoff valve there.

 

Left photo:  Is the red thing the gas shutoff? I am pretty sure it is but can't really see if it has the small part that sticks out so you can shut it.

 

Right photo: I am surprised to see a white pipe coming out of the floor that feeds the gas.  I thought it was supposed to be a metal pipe; maybe it is PE or similar?


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Post# 1139749 , Reply# 88   1/18/2022 at 16:35 (382 days old) by bradfordwhite (West Coast, U.S.)        

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It looks like a gas valve but it's difficult to say for sure.

 

The pipe may be painted metal.


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Post# 1139750 , Reply# 89   1/18/2022 at 16:39 (382 days old) by weed30 (St. Louis, MO)        

Thanks, that look like it. I'll see if I can pull the range out further to get a better look. (and maybe clean a little - ha.)


Post# 1139768 , Reply# 90   1/18/2022 at 20:14 (382 days old) by mattl (Flushing, MI)        

I would replace the gas flex line when you swap ranges as good practice.

Post# 1139773 , Reply# 91   1/18/2022 at 20:40 (382 days old) by weed30 (St. Louis, MO)        

@mattl: definitely plan on doing that, thank you.


Post# 1139801 , Reply# 92   1/19/2022 at 08:40 (381 days old) by DaveAMKrayoGuy (Oak Park, MI)        

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Those gas exolosions: Seems like only such big metropolitan areas get them....

Somehow nowhere near as common in suburban areas such as mine...

Also we tone to get our streets dug up just about yearly, so somehow I would figure that just must be how our gas lines get inspected and maintained...

And those pipelines must be doing well, because there hasn't been even one shut off or interruption of our gas service...



-- Dave


Post# 1139806 , Reply# 93   1/19/2022 at 11:43 (381 days old) by bradfordwhite (West Coast, U.S.)        

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Dave, we have to remember the population density in an urban area is more than suburban or rural so the propensity for more activities of any kind involving people are more likely.

But gas explosions can happen anywhere. Those living in rural areas aren't immune because the large diameter gas delivery lines cut through the country to get from one metro to another.

As much as I dislike gas for safety reasons; the work involved to dig up thousands of miles and install fragile pipelines is incredible and impressive. It's just not safe.

That's why it's important to understand WHAT is buried in your street. You may well be living right next to a utility easement that has a gas line of significant diameter buried. Not to mention other utilities like high voltage lines or a major water line. All have health risks and if several are buried near by and there is a disaster it can be nightmarish.






Post# 1140142 , Reply# 94   1/23/2022 at 08:22 (377 days old) by SudsMaster (California)        

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I bought this 1941 home back in '97. It had a functional gas water heater, and a forced air gas powered central heating system. I'm about the third owner. The second owner remodeled the place in the '60's, adding a master bed/bath to the rear, converting a bedroom to a family room off the kitchen, creating an enclosed bricked in patio on the side with a second kitchen, etc.

The one change the previous owner made that I didn't like was when they remodeled the kitchen, they made it all-electric. I'm certain the original home had a gas kitchen. One of the first things I did was hire a plumber to extend the gas line to the all-electric cooktop area, and then I replaced the electric cooktop with a gas unit. The wall oven is still electric, though. That's OK.

About a year and a half ago I lost most of my sense of smell (no, not from covid). One of the first things I did was to get one of those Kidde combo CO/Explosive Gas alarms. My sense of smell is gradually returning but I don't know if it will ever be what it once was. Anyway, the CO/Explosive Gas detector helps me sleep better, LOL.

Yes, gas is cheaper than electricity here. However, the latest gas bill shows it at $2.02/therm for "Tier 1", and at $2.50 for "Tier 2". I recall someone stating their gas cost them about $1/therm. Everything seems more expensive here in Cali. Fortunately the biggest gas use is in winter for the central heating. Around April-May that will be done. I hope. The price for natural gas here has gone up 25% (Dec 2020-Dec 2021) in one year!


Post# 1140147 , Reply# 95   1/23/2022 at 10:08 (377 days old) by weed30 (St. Louis, MO)        

@SudsMaster - I'll definitely be getting a few of those detectors - I should have them already! My gas co has a $22 "customer fee" plus the therm cost and it works out to .99/therm. I think. They make it hard to decipher the bill of course. I have all gas - range, water heater, dryer. If I could I would do a gas cooktop and electric wall oven like you have. Best of both worlds IMO.



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