Thread Number: 89824  /  Tag: Vintage Automatic Washers
Kenmore Ultra Fabric Care Washer
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Post# 1144535   3/14/2022 at 19:48 (744 days old) by BlockEight88 (Hobart, IN)        

blockeight88's profile picture
Good evening,

I am curious about Kenmore's 1995 Ultra Fabric Care washing machine. The machine has recently become a new obsession. I am curious about how this machine compares to its counterparts. How does the black model compare to the white one? How rare are these? Do they do a full warm rinse? I see they offer a "hot/warm" option and the ones with the more rounder looking knobs doesn't. The final picture appears to have ATC, which if I am correct, tempers the warm rinse to around 75 degrees. Do the other machines do this as well? I would really love to know more about these. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.


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Post# 1144540 , Reply# 1   3/14/2022 at 20:42 (744 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
Your first pic is a dryer.

The white washer does not have ATC but may limit the warm rinse for Warm/Warm to a warm spray in the final spin with the agitated rinse being cold.  Depends on the specific model's programming.  Warm non-ATC probably is mixed 40% tap hot 60% tap cold via the inlet valve proportions.

The almond washer with ATC choices may provide 100°F for warm washes, 75°F for warm rinse, and 70°F for cold wash (cold rinse is probably tap-cold).  I have a version that's probably slightly older (late 1999) and states those temps in the ATC section.


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Post# 1144550 , Reply# 2   3/15/2022 at 02:52 (744 days old) by 70series ( Connecticut.)        

That washer is exactly like the one my parents bought in August of 1999. Model # was 110.20902 in white.

Post# 1144560 , Reply# 3   3/15/2022 at 07:40 (743 days old) by jmm63 (Denville, NJ)        
Kenmore 90 series

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best washer I ever had. Bought new in 1999 with matching gas dryer. Sorry I ever got rid of it.

Post# 1144562 , Reply# 4   3/15/2022 at 08:18 (743 days old) by BlockEight88 (Hobart, IN)        

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Thank you y’all for your replies. Sorry for posting the dryer. I meant to post the washer version. So really the main differences between this one and the later model is the warm rinse? Did any do a full warm rinse, like 50/50?

Is the white model, the one branded as “Ultra Fabric Care” pretty easy to find?


Post# 1144563 , Reply# 5   3/15/2022 at 09:25 (743 days old) by lovestowash (St. Petersburg, FL)        
90 Series

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3 speeds plus Intermittent...best washer I ever had...forced to replace with LG stack when I moved to Florida...dark day...

Post# 1144568 , Reply# 6   3/15/2022 at 11:02 (743 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
A 3-speed motor is preferable over 2-speed regards to whichever models you may find for selection.

Hot + cold mix proportion for warm depends on the physical design of the water valve.  The workarounds are 1) replace a 40/60 valve with a compatible 50/50 assembly, or 2) drill-out the flow restrictor in the hot side.  ATC doesn't control the mix proportion, it switches between full-hot, full-cold, and warm to attain an average flow temperature around the target temperature.


Post# 1144569 , Reply# 7   3/15/2022 at 11:12 (743 days old) by BlockEight88 (Hobart, IN)        
Water Inlet

blockeight88's profile picture
Interesting. I thought the control panel controls the warm water rinse. So where could one find a 50/50 warm water mask inlet valve? Do you have a part number?

Post# 1144574 , Reply# 8   3/15/2022 at 13:02 (743 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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My 1986 DD LK had true warm washes and warm rinses.

Post# 1144575 , Reply# 9   3/15/2022 at 13:23 (743 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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Bob, the water valve has equal flow-rate for hot and cold?


Post# 1144576 , Reply# 10   3/15/2022 at 13:32 (743 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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As best as I could tell. Remember since this was the first year of the new DD and included ATC, there were no non-ATC temps. If I wanted a wash higher than 140, I'd turned up the water heater to highest temp--155 or so and turn off the cold water tap so that it didn't temper the water down to 140. Warm was still about what I'd been used to all my life, 95-100F. Cold was 60-70F???

Post# 1144577 , Reply# 11   3/15/2022 at 13:40 (743 days old) by BlockEight88 (Hobart, IN)        

blockeight88's profile picture
So with the 1995 Kenmore Ultra Care Fabric washer does that include a true warm rinse?

Post# 1144581 , Reply# 12   3/15/2022 at 15:07 (743 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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The only sure way to know the details on how a given model handles temperatures is by hands-on testing or info from someone else who has usage experience with the exact model ... or maybe by finding a tech sheet for it.


Post# 1144584 , Reply# 13   3/15/2022 at 15:48 (743 days old) by BlockEight88 (Hobart, IN)        

blockeight88's profile picture
Ok makes sense. The current Kenmore DD washer I have is from 2000 and alternates between 50/50 and straight cold for the rinse, either when it's set to Warm/Warm or ATC Warm/Warm.

I was under the impression that this came later, as energy laws began to go into effect. So you are saying the washers from the late 80s and early 90s tempered the warm rinse?


Post# 1144585 , Reply# 14   3/15/2022 at 15:53 (743 days old) by BlockEight88 (Hobart, IN)        

blockeight88's profile picture
Here is a model number from a similar white Ultra Fabric Care machine (as pictured above)

11092588210



Post# 1144603 , Reply# 15   3/15/2022 at 18:48 (743 days old) by appnut (TX)        

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When I set to either Hot/Warm or Warm/Warm, the warm rinse was always a straight shot warm. In the winter, when set for cold rinse, (and this is Texas), it would constantly inject warm water to make sure it didn't have too cold of rinse water. Sometimes drove me nuts.

Post# 1144613 , Reply# 16   3/15/2022 at 19:10 (743 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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ATC at that time, of course, was more to keep cold and warm temps from falling too low vs. later/nowadays moreso for dumbing warm and hot down.

The model cited in Reply 14 does have ATC per the parts diagrams.


Post# 1144623 , Reply# 17   3/15/2022 at 19:35 (743 days old) by BlockEight88 (Hobart, IN)        

blockeight88's profile picture
This is what I am after. As seen in this video, the machine has ATC and is set to warm/warm (ATC). The rinse appears to be 50/50. The later models seem to be missing the Hot/Warm option.






Post# 1144629 , Reply# 18   3/15/2022 at 20:34 (743 days old) by Repairguy (Danbury, Texas)        

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As Glenn stated above, the ATC controls the mix of hot and cold to maintain a factory setting. If you set it to non ATC warm/warm or hot/warm on the model in the video it should give you a warm rinse with a mix of cold and water heater hot water with the amount of each depending on how the water valve was built.

Whirlpool part number 285805 is the replacement valve for this machine and it provides a great warm water mix and with decent water pressure the machine fills as in the video.

I think sometime in the late nineties warm rinses went away. On the early to mid 2000 models the washer may have had a warm/warm option but warm rinse wasn’t allowed with hot wash and a lot of the time the warm rinse option only changed the last 2 spin spray rinses to warm and the deep fill rinse was cold.

The washer in the video is a 1992 model by the way.


Post# 1144630 , Reply# 19   3/15/2022 at 20:42 (743 days old) by BlockEight88 (Hobart, IN)        
Water Valve

blockeight88's profile picture
So the water valves can determine how the machine handles warm rinses?

Post# 1144632 , Reply# 20   3/15/2022 at 20:45 (743 days old) by BlockEight88 (Hobart, IN)        

blockeight88's profile picture
Does part 285805 differ from the original water inlet valve this machine shipped with?

Post# 1144636 , Reply# 21   3/15/2022 at 21:29 (743 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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The flow rate on that video changes several times during the wash fill when ATC switches between mixed hot+cold (stronger flow) and reduced flow of either only hot or only cold.  There's no way to know for sure which way it's shifting ... hot to increase the temperature or cold to reduce it.  The ATC sensor does not measure the water temperature in the tub.  The sensor is in a module located in the hose between the valve assembly and the spray flume.  The flow gets too high above or too low below the target temperature for x period of time, it changes between mixed hot+cold, hot-only, or cold-only according to what it needs to cool down or warm up the sensor for x period of time so as to attain an average reading around the target.  I don't see the flow rate change at any time during the rinse fill, which appears to the stronger hot+cold flow rate.  I am assuming that hot+cold at that person's house satisfies the ATC warm *rinse* but is a bit too low for warm *wash* and the wash fill is switching occasionally to full hot.

There may be others but the only ATC system I've seen that directly controls the valves and mixes the incoming spray to the specific target temperature are some Fisher & Paykel models that can directly control the flow of the valves, presumably by moderating the (DC) power to the solenoids.  I have one that, for example, targets 46°C (116°F) for warm.  I have a tankless water heater.  The water spraying from the fill flume stays at the target temperature if I set it to at least 116°F or raise it progressively to 140°F.


Post# 1144642 , Reply# 22   3/15/2022 at 23:00 (743 days old) by Repairguy (Danbury, Texas)        
Reply# 20

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It does in that it is a replacement valve for many direct drive machines and there are 2 ways to mount the replacement with or without a bracket that comes with the part depending on the machine it is being installed on.

Post# 1144658 , Reply# 23   3/16/2022 at 07:35 (742 days old) by BlockEight88 (Hobart, IN)        
Reply 22

blockeight88's profile picture
So a new water inlet valve would take away from what the machine originally did? If I am understanding that correctly. Part 285805 would not do a full 50/50 warm rinse, or even 60/40?

Post# 1144661 , Reply# 24   3/16/2022 at 09:03 (742 days old) by Repairguy (Danbury, Texas)        

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It’s different in the way it installs not in the way it functions.

Post# 1144668 , Reply# 25   3/16/2022 at 10:57 (742 days old) by BlockEight88 (Hobart, IN)        

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How can it be installed differently?

Post# 1144677 , Reply# 26   3/16/2022 at 11:33 (742 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
50/50 vs. 60/40 valve mixing proportions doesn't have an appreciable effect on ATC temperatures.  The valve operates only three ways ... both solenoids on for mixed-warm at the valve proportions, only the hot solenoid for tap-hot flow, or only the cold solenoid for tap-cold flow.  The ATC circuit board that comes into play on ATC settings switches between those three operations to attain the target average temperature.  ATC warm is mixed hot+cold with possible occasional tap-hot or tap-cold if necessary to attain the average.  ATC cold is tap-cold with occasional hot+cold if necessary.

50/50 vs. 60/40 does have an effect on non-ATC warm when the electronic board is not monitoring and controlling the temperature.

285805 was mentioned recently as a 50/50 proportion valve for anyone who wants to replace a 60/40 valve.  It includes an optional mounting bracket/plate to adapt it as a current substitute for machines that had an original valve (now discontinued) mounted to the back panel differently than the 285805 otherwise fits.


Post# 1144686 , Reply# 27   3/16/2022 at 15:04 (742 days old) by BlockEight88 (Hobart, IN)        

blockeight88's profile picture
Here is my current machine. It does not do a 50/50 warm warm or 60/40.

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Post# 1144694 , Reply# 28   3/16/2022 at 17:46 (742 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

dadoes's profile picture
 
50/50 and 60/40 refers the percentage proportion of cold and hot when both solenoids are open for warm.  60/40 valves have a smaller (restricted) channel for hot water such that cold water is 60 percent of the flow and hot is 40 percent when both solenoids are open for warm.  A 50/50 valve is equal proportion cold and hot.

What proportion is the valve on your machine if not 50/50 or 60/40?


Post# 1144700 , Reply# 29   3/16/2022 at 19:46 (742 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Hot and cold water valve percentages

combo52's profile picture
Whirlpool built washing machines in the 60s had a 6040 valve, 60% hot 40% cold water was provided when you had the machine set on warm.

That was changed when they went to the yellow valve on the belt drive machines it became a 50-50 valve.

Later they went to 40% hot 60% cold to save hot water, recent Speed Queen top loading machines for example Are 30% hot and 70% called when set on warm.

In my experience it certainly doesn’t matter what temperature you rinse in, in fact I love my new laundry room set up with seven washing machines hooked up so far in this time let of year the water is in the 40s coming out of the cold tap, it does cost a lot of money to heat it because I only wash in hot water generally but I love rinsing in cold water. Clothing smells so fresh and nice when it’s taken out all nice and chilly if it weren’t so expensive I would like to have ice cold water to rinse in in the summer as well think I’ll refreshing that would be.

Coldwater actually rinses out detergent and bleach better try it yourself. In addition clothing never sours if it’s left in the machine any remaining bacteria is held at bay until the clothing is completely dried. Much lower germ counts with the cold rinsing.

I’ve never seen it single detergent manufacture or washer maker recommend warm water rinsing , there are certain concessions we must do to save the world climate change is a very real thing in this is a very simple thing to do that actually works better.

John L


Post# 1144701 , Reply# 30   3/16/2022 at 20:33 (742 days old) by BlockEight88 (Hobart, IN)        
Reply 28

blockeight88's profile picture
I was thinking more along the lines of rinse only, not the main warm wash, which would be 60/40, 50/50, like you said.

The machine I posted in Reply #27... does that use 50/50 or 60/40?



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