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Thread Number: 90670
/ Tag: Vintage Automatic Washers
Modern makes of vintage Washers and Dryers |
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Post# 1151798 6/20/2022 at 11:39 (674 days old) by Chetlaham  (United States) |
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Post# 1151802 , Reply# 1 6/20/2022 at 12:32 (674 days old) by ryner1988 (Indianapolis) |
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You know, I've wondered this very thing many times. You'd think with all the dissatisfaction out there with modern products, some manufacturer would try to duplicate what worked for many years, even if it isn't a US company. Come to think of it, it would almost have to be foreign-made if this was ever attempted, because the regulations here are now so strict that Whirlpool and other such companies aren't permitted to try anything like that. It's a cool idea though.
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Post# 1151803 , Reply# 2 6/20/2022 at 12:35 (674 days old) by ryner1988 (Indianapolis) |
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Adding to that, let's say China produced a duplicate of the GE filter flow. That machine uses a ton of water, so while it's a great performer, they probably wouldn't be allowed to sell it here legally. Once again with the regulations keeping that from happening.
It's not to say I wouldn't love to see machines like that around again. The Department of Energy has ensured though that we have to make machines differently now. | ||
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Post# 1151812 , Reply# 3 6/20/2022 at 13:44 (674 days old) by Chetlaham (United States) |
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Sadly I have to agree. Energy regulations are ultimately the barrier to sales in the US.
I would imagine the cost of over seas shipping would play a role too. FFs were one the heaviest washers ever made, so I guess that would add significant cost to the price tag. Regarding the patents and rights to these designs, how do they stand in the US? I am tempted to think that if a Chinese company successfully began selling BDs or DD in the US Whirlpool would come out and say "hey, thats our design" However, now that Haier owns GE appliances, there is some hope that FFs could be sold in at least some parts of the world. | ||
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Post# 1151889 , Reply# 5 6/21/2022 at 08:35 (673 days old) by Chetlaham (United States) |
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Wire Guage | ||
| Post# 1151897 , Reply# 6 6/21/2022 at 09:36 (673 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806) | ||
The only way to make appliances like they did many years would be to have full automation of the stamping process of various panels and such and possibly assembly. That’s what they do with cars to make them more affordable for the consumer. It’s usually the stamping process of various panels and the labor it takes to put them together more so than anything else.
Reply #4, I think if the Maytag helical washers were to be made today it wouldn’t cost much more than a Speed Queen since they both have a similar-ish design in terms of how they wash and spin. Frankly, if Speed Queen were to use Maytag’s design they literally used from 1956 to 2006, probably would cost about the same maybe even a little less since Maytag’s design was simpler than Speed Queen’s current top load design despite both having a removable front access panel. Definitely would get Speed Queen a better reputation since they would be more reliable, and for sure easier to work on if you had to replace the belts, pump, or any other minor part if Speed Queen were to use Maytag’s design from many years ago. | ||
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Post# 1151905 , Reply# 8 6/21/2022 at 10:44 (673 days old) by Chetlaham (United States) |
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Reply #6 - Agree
100% agree. Newton style Maytags were made until 2006 and at the time did not cost all that much when compared to DDs. Newtons are simpler than Speed Queens, and use roughly, if not slightly less, the same amount of and type of of raw material.
If Whirlpool wanted to, they could have mass produced the Newtons (a dream come true) but chose not to in part because of the reduced capacity and they did not want to overhaul the Maytag factory. That and I think they knew DD production would cease in 5 years for their splutch drive designs. The fact Reply #4 has already received 3 like I think speaks to the overall pessimistic view of how vintage appliances are viewed on this forum and the optimistic faith placed in modern appliances. But, I think we can both agree on this: Most people today don't care or want to care about how modern appliances are made. They just approve of anything that has gangster bling-bling attached to it, appears featured, cheap and can do 2 weeks worth of laundry at once vs something simple and durable. Ultimately its not so much the corporations, but the people's apathy and aloofness. However, I hope to think that on the international level someone, somewhere would be yearning for an old fashioned North American machine. | ||
| Post# 1151951 , Reply# 11 6/21/2022 at 20:40 (673 days old) by qsd-dan (West) | ||
There are ways around the system. If parts could be reproduced, then they could be legally sold anywhere. Sort of like building a 60's Mustang or Model A from the frame up suing aftermarket parts. Whole machines probably wouldn't fly under the radar except in the black market but even then, one could sell them locally as a "used" appliance even if it isn't. I think the "system" has bigger issues to deal with than cracking down on a small handful of people wanting to purchase and use an old school type appliance. Last time I checked, nobody goes to jail for owning, buying, selling, or using a wringer washer or even dumping the wash water in their own yard.
The biggest obstacle is quality and durability of materials and parts. Trust me, I ponder about things like this a bit too much these days. If there wasn't a huge backlog of materials due to COVID, I'd be working on reproducing some Maytag parts right now. | ||
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Post# 1151954 , Reply# 12 6/21/2022 at 21:34 (673 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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No, modern incarnations of vintage laundry appliances
Are not coming back, at least not to previous standard of quality or whatever anytime soon.
There were many good reasons why GM and others saw writing on wall and got out of laundry appliance business by 1980's or so. Huge pent up demand for laundry and other white goods began evaporating by 1970's as post war boom began to fizzle. Nearly all those who wanted a washing machine had one, and thus market became more and more reliant upon new home sales. Something that still holds true today. Keep in mind that was all when USA white good manufacturers had nearly total captive market. By 1970's onwards arrival of cheaper foreign imports put pressure on prices. Makers found they couldn't build (including R&D and other associated costs) appliances and charge whatever they liked because same was with automobiles, Americans began looking at cheaper imports which put lid on prices. But this is true for European appliance makers as well. My older Miele W1070 like many other washers of same vintage is built like a tank. Newer offerings are still up there, but Miele has been taking money out of their products for past few years now. If that's happening at top end, imagine what's going on at MOL and BOL. Consumers at least in North America and Europe just won't pay adjusted prices for appliances built like vintage. | ||
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Post# 1151961 , Reply# 13 6/21/2022 at 22:15 (673 days old) by Chetlaham (United States) |
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Qsd-Dan, you're not pondering it to much these days my friend. You're heart, soul and mind are in the right place. With 3-D printed technology becoming accessible for everyone perhaps one day any one of us can build a vintage appliance from the ground up. You've got developing nations churning out semi descent washers from sheet metal presses, a signal that anyone can build a complete washer.
We already have the blueprints. All that is required is to scan each individual part, convert it to CAD, then either print it or print the molds that will cast it. | ||
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Post# 1151969 , Reply# 15 6/21/2022 at 23:41 (673 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Sea change for North American domestic laundry (and some OPL along with coin-op) has been move to H-axis washing machines.
Now that North America has joined most of civilized and industrialized western world, there's no going back. Indeed federal government has virtually made this so; that is by "vintage" laundry appliances one means top loaders, they are going way of Dodo. Have said this before, and am doing so again; there are many reasons why commercial/industrial laundries went with h-axis washing machines from the start, and now general public is catching on. As Angus and other posters have mentioned we here in the group are sort of special. Average American consumer just wants clean laundry without tons of bother, but he or she also is mindful (to various degrees) of energy and other costs. Vintage top loaders like GE Filter Flow used ungodly amounts of water. If that was heated water in any way for washing (warm or hot) things only got better or worse depending upon one's view. All but youngest members were around when major appliances meant just that; serious bit of kit that was meant to last ten or twenty years. For prices charged things had better last or companies heard about it. Interestingly, but something those in industry likely know, prices for laundry and other major appliances actually have paced *below* inflation since 1970's. www.in2013dollars.com/Lau... By taking some of the money out of major appliances they became more affordable to larger share of households. Prices for washing machines in USA have ticked up lately largely due to introduction of front loaders which always cost more than top loading machines with central beaters. | ||
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Post# 1151992 , Reply# 17 6/22/2022 at 05:36 (672 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK) |
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Watching that filter Flo video | ||
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Post# 1152046 , Reply# 18 6/22/2022 at 16:29 (672 days old) by Chetlaham (United States) |
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Resource Saver | ||
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Post# 1152057 , Reply# 19 6/22/2022 at 17:52 (672 days old) by kenwashesmonday (Carlstadt, NJ) |
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There was a time when consumers expected 2 or more decades out of a major appliance.
Today's consumer shops by price, and that changes everything. | ||
| Post# 1152059 , Reply# 20 6/22/2022 at 18:14 (672 days old) by Maytag85 (Sean A806) | ||
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Consumers are too cheap to pay for quality these days since they have to have it NOW and can’t wait until they have the means to save up for appliances that will last for decades. There is the saying “the customer/consumer is always right”, NOT in my book since they are complaining about the very problems they created in a way and make it more difficult for those who want decades of trouble free service.
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Post# 1152063 , Reply# 21 6/22/2022 at 21:07 (672 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Speed Queen domestic washing machines both top and front loading are not far from OPL or otherwise commercial use. Thus Alliance can spread costs along a much wider array of offerings.
If Alliance only offered domestic washing machines and dryers they'd be up against WP and rest, thus you'd likely not see same sort of build quality and so forth they have today. Alliance/SQ does brisk business with US military (units installed on bases all over USA), well as route multi-family housing (those washers and dryers found in apartment building laundry rooms). So again they have a much wider reach to spread things around. | ||
| Post# 1152260 , Reply# 23 6/24/2022 at 07:43 (670 days old) by Pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada) | ||
i wonder how a modern 2023 version of this set would look?
I wonder how in 2023 a modern version of this vintage set would look like wuth out the vmw tech and fancy electronic but still keeping the classic look and style? inglis whirlpool
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