Thread Number: 90939  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
60s-70s Laudromat with FL washers and Closed TL Maytags
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Post# 1154496   7/17/2022 at 01:29 by bradfordwhite (West Coast, U.S.)        

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Drought is real.



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Post# 1154514 , Reply# 1   7/17/2022 at 10:18 by Chetlaham (United States)        

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With carbon free nuclear, water desalination becomes feasible and with that the use of top load washers.


I'd also challenge the blanket assumption that front loads always clean better when it comes to soiled diapers, shop rags and exceptionally muddy/greasy work clothes.




Post# 1154520 , Reply# 2   7/17/2022 at 11:17 by qsd-dan (West)        
Drought is real.

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The drought is manufactured. Only 10 percent of water usage is used by the public. 40% is used in agriculture and the other 50% percent is used for "environmental" purposes aka flushed out into the ocean. We haven't even began discussing Nestle or antiquated and wasteful flood irrigation. And that is just a start.

Post# 1154539 , Reply# 3   7/17/2022 at 13:23 by rinso (Meridian Idaho)        

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It looks like some of the coin-op laundry equipment shown here, may need a visit from Mister Repairman.

Post# 1154541 , Reply# 4   7/17/2022 at 13:51 by ryner1988 (Indianapolis)        
@qsd-dan

You mean an innovative way to tackle the water crisis that involves the folks in Washington employing some out-of-the-box thinking instead of barking at us about what we should be doing, while doing virtually nothing themselves? LOL that's funny!

Post# 1154548 , Reply# 5   7/17/2022 at 16:11 by bradfordwhite (West Coast, U.S.)        

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When one considers that roughly 80% of the water in California is used on agriculture that feeds the entire country it really puts in to perspective that used in the home.

Post# 1154551 , Reply# 6   7/17/2022 at 16:57 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

launderess's profile picture
"I'd also challenge the blanket assumption that front loads always clean better when it comes to soiled diapers, shop rags and exceptionally muddy/greasy work clothes."

Challenge all you like, but it's a proven fact that h-axis washing machines will get all sorts of soiled laundry cleaner using less water per pound, and with causing less stress/damage than top loaders with central beaters.

Industrial/commercial laundries long have used h-axis washers to process everything from hospital linen to diaper services, and results are spot on.

Now what is achievable with a truly industrial washer that has far more changes of water than most domestic front loaders, is built to withstand use of stronger chemicals, has access to or can produce hot water at temps 140F to 180F, and is allowed to used enough water per pound to get job done, well that is another matter.

Average domestic front loader is being nobbled by same laws/rules on energy conservation applied to top loaders, which is silly. H-axis washers already use less water per pound than top loaders so across board standards are stupid.


Here is standard diaper service wash formula from 1950's
(1) Five-minute cold rinse;

(2) 10-minute soak in hot suds;

(3) 10-minute soak in hot suds;

(4) 10-minute soak in hot suds, with bleach;

(5) five hot rinses with live steam;

(6) six cold rinses, and a germicide solution is used in the third cold rinse;

(7) water is extracted;

(8) dried in tumblers under 125 pounds of live steam;

(9) ready for folding and packing.


Here are some standard modern wash formulas:

www.uschemical.com/wp-content/upl...

What industrial laundries have over domestic washers is ability to do far more changes of water (especially flush, wash and bleach cycles), which is what carries away muck.

Back in day as part of "Normal" cycles front loaders always did a pre-wash. That's gone by wayside in most part though some machines have "Heavy soil" programs which incorporate a pre-wash. But in industrial setting even that pre-wash (or first wash cycle) would be proceeded by a "flush" cycle regardless.

"We Don't Wash In Dirty Water" is the maxim for laundresses, laundries and and anyone else doing the job going back ages. No laundry will ever be cleaner than the water it has come out of, so if you don't flush or otherwise remove gross muck (via many changes of water for example), you're not going to get good results.

Modern commercial laundries (including those that process diapers) deal with heavily soiled loads all the time. When it comes to diapers everything goes into machines as it comes out of bags, including solid waste.






Post# 1154552 , Reply# 7   7/17/2022 at 17:01 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        
Another thing

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True commercial/industrial H-axis washers will not only do all of the above, but have cycle times < 40 minutes on average. My modern AEG-Lavamat washers allot nearly one hour for rinsing and final extraction alone.

Westinghouse knew and proved H-axis washers could cope with and remove heavy muck, soil and sand far better than top loaders. This was back in 1950's!






Post# 1154553 , Reply# 8   7/17/2022 at 17:20 by qsd-dan (West)        
80% of the water in California is used on agriculture

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Post# 1154554 , Reply# 9   7/17/2022 at 17:21 by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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Sluice wash or sluice washer to handle loads heavy with ... muck.


Post# 1154562 , Reply# 10   7/17/2022 at 19:11 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

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In our area when water restrictions are in place (thank god not for some time now), supposedly inspectors visit laundromats to observe water level via glass door (front loaders). If it is above a certain point that can mean fines.

Quite honestly don't understand why any laundromat still would have top loaders. Unless owner has very cheap water and sewer rates it just doesn't make sense. As have said several times in past haven't seen top loaders in laundromats around here in one or more decades now. Even multi-family housing such as apartment buildings and dorms are getting rid of top loaders in favor of front.


Post# 1154563 , Reply# 11   7/17/2022 at 19:12 by Chetlaham (United States)        

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How many gallons of water per pound of cloth when washing diapers though? I would imagine 5 hot rinses and 6 cold rinses is more water than 3 rinses in a typical laundry mat or resi front load, approaching top load territory?







Post# 1154565 , Reply# 12   7/17/2022 at 19:58 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

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There isn't a direct comparison because industrial/commercial laundries don't use top loading washers.

Their standards usually are costs measured in water use per pound of laundry. Usual range is 2.5 to 3.5 gallons of water per pound of laundry.

See: www.milnor.com/technical-...

There are ways to get those numbers down that just aren't available to domestic washing machines. Things like water reclamation, using rinse water from final cycles as for prewash or flush cycles.

Batch/tunnel washers take things to a whole other level.

www.milnor.com/videos/how...


Post# 1154567 , Reply# 13   7/17/2022 at 20:21 by Chetlaham (United States)        

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Right, but my thinking (albeit biased toward top loaders) is that those Maytags would do a better job with heavily soiled cloth than those Dexters on the basis there is more water to hold in suspension and then flush muck away. Not that the Dexters couldn't be made to wash heavy soils, but water usage would end up approaching the Maytags IMO.



Post# 1154569 , Reply# 14   7/17/2022 at 20:35 by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)        

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Miele Sluice programs.

PW6055 (Professional), partial of Sluice High (prerinses, start of main wash 75°C).





PW6065 (Little Giant), full Sluice Low (150°F) program (click Watch on YouTube, video is restricted from embedding off YouTube).





Post# 1154578 , Reply# 15   7/17/2022 at 23:53 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

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IIRC only Miele professional washers with dump valves (not pumps) have sluice options enabled.

This makes sense as you wouldn't want muck consisting of heavy soil, faeces, and whatever else one wanted removed to sit around in sump to contaminate successive changes of water.

Most industrial/commercial washers don't have pumps anyway, but drain valves. OPL washers such as Miele "Little Giants" can go either way.






In general terms "sluice" simply means to rinse. Those who cloth diaper "sluice" solid waste out (usually but not recommended) by dunking in toilet.

Washer/extractors or just washers marketed also as "sluice" tend to have larger diameter holes in wash tub along with special programmed designed for the job.

Mind you washers or washer/extractors long were used to "sluice" heavily contaminated/soiled linen. Just the operator of washer controlled cycles (or used early programming such as cards) to raise water level for first one or two pre rinse cycles. Machines naturally already had wash tubs with holes of diameter large enough to allow muck to pass.

olshs.com.au/index.phpQUESTIONMA...

Here is manual for Miele PW 6065 speaking about sluice "high" or "low" cycles.

www.manualslib.com/manual...

Note both sluice "high" and "low" cycles max load is about half of normal "Cottons" capacity, about 4.5 kilos.

If anyone likes a good read: www.england.nhs.uk/wp-con...


Post# 1154585 , Reply# 16   7/18/2022 at 00:54 by bradfordwhite (West Coast, U.S.)        
#1

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NO on the nuclear garbage. YES on desalination.

Then all Topload washing machine lovers can wash their clothes THREAD BARE...FOREVER! lol

-----

The Saudis are really making it happen. I can't believe how many plants are already operating: 16,000







Post# 1154586 , Reply# 17   7/18/2022 at 01:15 by Maytag85 (Sean A806)        
Reply #16

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“No more on the nuclear garbage”. You basically are contradicting yourself since you complain about natural gas coal etc when nuclear is clean and proven and has none of the drawbacks of fossil fuels etc. You have to realize the nuclear technology is improving and moving forward each day and they are currently are doing research and development on small modular reactors which basically are a very small nuclear reactor with a 300MW output and are more fail safe than your current nuclear reactor since the control rods are held up with gigantic electro-magnets/solenoids and if the power were to be cut to those solenoids, the control rods would just drop down preventing any meltdowns or disasters which is more fail safe than ANY nuclear reactor built within the last 50 or so years.

Post# 1154587 , Reply# 18   7/18/2022 at 01:20 by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage)        

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Everything being said, generations of housewives and mothers washed cloth diapers in semi and fully automatic washing machines. This included everything from wringer washers to twin tubs to front or top loading machines. To best of my knowledge no one died, no major outbreaks of disease occurred, babies grew up into children and healthy adults.

As to what all those mothers washed those diapers with, that's a whole other conversation.















Post# 1154589 , Reply# 19   7/18/2022 at 01:58 by bradfordwhite (West Coast, U.S.)        
#17

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NoBODY wants nuclear.
No one will waste $$$$$$$$$$$ and time building those dangerous behemoths.
The waste is horrendous.
The threats are not acceptable.
Dumping billions of dollars into this is simply a scam at this point.

Solar is here and along with Storage batteries will take over all power generation, and that's great.
Clean, fast to build, and storage that assures brown-outs are history.

And people actually want and have the panels.... on their homes.

When was the last time you saw a nuclear reactor on a persons roof...
or a coal burning electric generator in someone back yard?
How about a natural gas burner in someone front yard?
An oil refinery in a neighborhood park?
Oil derricks in your neighbors yard?

---We bow our heads and thank the coal burning plants, nuclear plants, the wale oil burners, the fracking thats poisoning ground water, the leaking oil lines stretched millions of miles across numerous countries....they are history or soon will be. We are grateful for them being part of the trek forward.
They served us when that's al we had.
But moving forward is best.
Those old ways just don't make sense anymore.

Banks and investors won't waste $$ on those old ways anymore because why would they. Why should they?










Post# 1154590 , Reply# 20   7/18/2022 at 06:56 by Chetlaham (United States)        
Wind and Solar- Just Look At Texas

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Do you have any idea how much energy it takes to desalinate just one gallon of water? Heat a nation in the middle of winter or cool it in record heat? To refine raw materials? Run the internet? Drive wheels on a car and its AC?


I'll let you in on a secret. There isn't enough wind and solar on earth to do it, let alone the entire nation's grid would trip off line every time a car hit a pole.


If you want a realistic example look at Texas. Daily news alerts about possible rolling blackouts, with forced power outages taking place several times a month. And that is with horribly inefficient quick start natural gas generators adding CO2 and NOx to the atmosphere.


Sadly, the rest of the US is not far behind as every state faces potential rolling blackouts this summer if weather forecasts turn out as predicted. There is also a small chance of a major blackout spanning several states this summer.


www.npr.org/2022/05/20/11...


Keep in mind all this is taking place in 2022. Once every home and car becomes all electrical, forget about society surviving.


Post# 1154594 , Reply# 21   7/18/2022 at 07:39 by suburbanmd (Maryland, USA)        
Reply #15

My Little Giant with a drain pump has the sluice programs enabled. The printed manual lists their capacity as "max 14.3 lbs (4.0 kg)", while cotton programs' capacity is listed as "max 14.3 lbs (6.5 kg)". So sluice capacity is same as cottons, or 61% of cottons, take your pick.


Post# 1154597 , Reply# 22   7/18/2022 at 08:06 by Chetlaham (United States)        
Nobody Wants Nuclear

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You're right. After having to deal with designs that did not have containment domes or melted down when cooling pumps failed, I do not not blame opponents.


However, when 300 million people begin experiencing daily blackouts with all government, businesses, infrastructure, institutions, ect adding gas and diesel generators to their buildings to contain the rioting, disease, foot shortages and economic instability arising from unreliable electricity- 300 million people will demand nuclear power with great fervor.

When people realize modern generation 4 nuclear reactors are not capable of sustaining a run away reaction, melting down, producing weapons grade material, overheating, leaking, and will produce minimal waste with zero environmental pollution nuclear will become a no brainier.


This will become the new normal, only to get worse:





The cause:

www.utilitydive.com/news/...


CO2 is causing much hotter summers; while wind, solar and batteries in any amount simply can not provide any meaningful amount of power.


It boils down to simple science and economics.


Post# 1154602 , Reply# 23   7/18/2022 at 10:45 by Maytag85 (Sean A806)        
Reply #19

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Solar and wind help but couldn’t sustain the current population since the demand of electricity goes up and down and can’t make the wind turbines suddenly spin faster and the sun shine brighter to generate more power. Those who are against clean nuclear power simply are falling for what the oil companies and tycoons say since they do everything in their power to convince people nuclear is bad so they can sell more oil and such which means more $$$$ in their pockets. More people have died and have been displaced from the pollution from fossil fuel power plants than every nuclear disaster that’s happened and there’s only been about 5 or 6 through out history.

Post# 1154604 , Reply# 24   7/18/2022 at 12:48 by Chetlaham (United States)        
Its the Gas Industry If Anything

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What people don't currently realize is when there isn't enough solar and wind, its tens of thousands of gas turbines that make up for it. Further, as coal, oil, and nuclear plants retire, natural gas is taking over for them.


Meaning that while 38% of all electricity comes from natural gas, coal 22%, 19% nuclear, 0.5% oil and 20% renewables, as other generating stations retire gas will rise to at least 80% of all electricity generation.


Because solar and wind rarely match load and can become completely unavailable due to weather, at least 90% of all generations assets will have to be natural gas to cover for a worse case renewable shortage.

Mass battery farms can at most can power the entire nation for hours, not days.

Lastly, you need spinning reverses. Meaning physics will not let you run 90% of the grid on just solar, wind and batteries alone unless you simultaneously have tens of thousands of large spinning masses evenly distributed through out the grid. In simple terms we'll have to leave the rotor and stator of every current power plant in place, just without the prime mover. So half the coast of a nuclear/coal/gas plant will still need to be invested even if we went with 100% solar/wind/battery.

This is because inverter based technology can not output sustained short circuit current, post disturbance dampening, and then the required surge output power to allow for stalled refrigeration compressor to trip their overloads once the fault is cleared.




www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/fa...

www.eia.gov/energyexplained/elec...


So in the end nothing has or is changing in terms of CO2 emissions.

Also gas is not without its reliability problems either. Most gas in the US is transported via only a handful of major pipelines. Failure of one pipeline can lead to gas shortages in very hot or cold weather. This is already a concern in New England.




Post# 1154605 , Reply# 25   7/18/2022 at 13:19 by Chetlaham (United States)        
Why Electricity

chetlaham's profile picture
If we were to go 100% carbon free, the only viable option would be to limit all combustion sources of energy.


That would have to be done at both the generator and consumer with all electric cars, buses, trains, heat pump furnaces, heat strips, electric dryers, electric water heaters, electric stoves and ranges, electric smelting, electric mining, electric manufacturing, and the like.

NYC and California has already set the ball in motion banning natural gas in new homes and businesses.




Post# 1154620 , Reply# 26   7/18/2022 at 15:18 by WindRivers (Wind River Range, WY)        

There are always hidden costs to everything. For example for wind and solar; panels, batteries, etc. have to be produced, resources have to be mined, etc. All these things; batteries, windmills, etc, also have a limited lifespan, requiring disposal. Even if some can be recycled, recycling isn't the perfectly lossless and impactless system idealists like to make it out to be. Virtually all the "green" stuff is being produced in China which doesn't care one bit about "green" energy, other than what they can profit off of it all by selling to "green" westerners. They will continue to pollute more and more providing greenies their pipe dream as their economy booms and western economies decline and collapse.

You can bet even if the West was to start producing their own panels, batteries, etc., and mining the precious minerals and all to do so, the Greenies would throw fits about all the damage they're doing to the environment.

So back to washers, I'll keep my top loader as long as it lasts. Around here water is a renewable resource, it comes from a well and goes into a septic where eventually it goes through its cycle all over again. It's not like in certain west coast states where when you use a gallon of water the universe is forever short that gallon. Physics just work differently on the West Coast, my clothes have never become thread bare from washing in a top loader, they wear out from work and use, but I suspect there are people on the West Coast with threadbare clothes who neither work nor wash.



Post# 1160115 , Reply# 27   9/22/2022 at 06:09 by mieleforme2 (California)        


Well this took a quick turn…


@bradforwhite If I may, as a power plant operator I can tell you solar and batteries (even wind) are not the answer. They are part of it, but just one part. For starters (without getting too technical) batteries/solar cannot not maintain grid voltage on their own. Online generators are required to do that (it fluctuates depending on grid load type, inductive vs resistive). In the summer its AC compressors running (inductive) in the winter heater coils (resistive). Those are the major factors for voltage fluctuations that batteries and solar cannot support. And let’s not forget what goes into making batteries (and solar panels), if we’re looking at our carbon footprint (and or offset), its not good.


That aside my plant is Natural gas which is the cleanest of the fossil fuel variety. And in the 20+ years I’ve been in the industry, there have been remarkable improvements in emissions and efficiency. I fully expect that continue over the decades. However, Nuclear is our best short-term bet to make a major dent in co2 emissions. It really is hard to beat when done right. And I think I speak for most when I say we all want to protect the planet. Overall, we need a mix of the most efficient technologies to get us closer to a greener power grid. That is until something revolutionary comes along. But at present, sorry to say it’s not solar & batteries.


Post# 1160118 , Reply# 28   9/22/2022 at 07:01 by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Future power supplies for the US and world

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I think the US is on a good course, natural gas will continue to be used in homes especially in the colder parts of the country and natural gas will continue to be used in power plants to generate electricity.

As Vince states large power plants are a necessary part of the power grid. However solar rooftop can do a lot as can wind energy.

I highly doubt a nuclear plant will ever be built at least in my lifetime in the United States it’s simply too expensive there’s no realistic way to get the cost down to be competitive with other sources.

The other major way to solve energy problems is to continue to become more energy efficient in homes and businesses we have just scratched the surface of what can be done to make homes run with less energy, with very little trouble I am living in a home that uses half as much electricity as I did 20 years ago without giving up any comfort or convenience.

My 42 solar panels on the roof also generate a little bit more power than I use on an annual basis.

John


Post# 1160143 , Reply# 29   9/22/2022 at 13:53 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
Definately will John!

We had a 20 hour power failure here in late August following storms. A few around have standby generators. One house has solar panels on the roof, and they had lights on the entire time, so the batteries must store power gathered during the day. Diversifying energy sources is best.

Post# 1160145 , Reply# 30   9/22/2022 at 15:03 by WindRivers (Wind River Range, WY)        

Hey "bradfordwhite" while we're on environmentally friendly power sources, what's wrong with heating with renewable and sustainable wood in a modern efficient and clean-burning wood stove? Saves tons of money if you cut your own wood also. You may even be able to get wood stoves or furnaces that are controlled by your fancy smart phone.

It's preferable to sleeping with grizzly bears to keep warm!


:)


(www.automaticwasher.org/c...)


Post# 1160200 , Reply# 31   9/23/2022 at 09:31 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
Nothing wrong with

using wood or pellets if your community allows it. Some more densley populated areas may not, just like burning leaves or trash.
My in laws had a home in a rural area in the 80's with hot water heat, and also a wood burning stove on the lower level, and a fireplaces for saving the gas used by the boiler. A homeowner must also be aware the creosote from burning coal, wood, or other combustables builds up in chimneys and can start fires. I suspect condomimnium by laws, or a homeowner's association might prohibit it.
A condo garage burned last night and it not only destroyed the condo, but caught the detatched one next door on fire, and melted the vynil siding above the garage accross the street.


Post# 1160213 , Reply# 32   9/23/2022 at 13:10 by WindRivers (Wind River Range, WY)        

Yes, it takes some knowledge, care, and responsibility. But I think sometimes people forget that there are other answers and solutions, and that not everyone lives in west or east coast urban areas, and aren't all taught to fall in line and accept the same lifestyles and same beliefs as fact without question. While it's a way of life to me, and has been for people here for generations, I know not everyone has ready access to firewood or the ability to get it or store it. Probably many wouldn't even know how to start a wood fire without using dreaded "fossil" fuels. At least pellet stoves are more automated, but not quite the same.

I'm not sure I'd last much longer living in a condominium or homeowner's association than I would living with grizzly bears, just as I suspect the person who made the generous comparison of me to Grizzly Adams wouldn't last long out here. (Though, perhaps ironiocally, I kind of picture him more as a Timothy Treadwell type.)


Post# 1160227 , Reply# 33   9/23/2022 at 14:47 by Maytag85 (Sean A806)        
Reply #28

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“I highly doubt a nuclear plant will ever be built at least in my lifetime in the United States it’s simply too expensive there’s no realistic way to get the cost down to compete with other sources.”

I very politely beg to differ. The cost of building nuclear plants many years ago was expensive since most were large power plants built on many acres of land along with all the engineering along with research and development it took to build such plants but since small modular reactors are currently in the development process, we actually might see small nuclear power plants being built since it takes less space and money to build a small nuclear power plant as opposed to the large and clunky nuclear power plants of the past.

This video pretty much explains what a small modular reactor is, I suggest you check it out since it has none on the drawl backs of nuclear power plants from the past.



CLICK HERE TO GO TO Maytag85's LINK


Post# 1160244 , Reply# 34   9/23/2022 at 18:19 by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Reply #33

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Hi Sean 

 

It has not happened yet, the cost of these smaller plants has not been figured out yet, let me know when this happens, I am sure a few will be built, I am almost as sure that not more than 10 of these plants get built before they go belly up.

 

John L.


Post# 1160248 , Reply# 35   9/23/2022 at 18:42 by Maytag85 (Sean A806)        
Reply #34

maytag85's profile picture
The cost hasn’t been figured out yet but will most certainly cost less to build than a full size nuclear power plant which costs a lot to build since there’s a lot of engineering as well as complexity in a larger nuclear power plant vs these small modular reactors that have everything contained in a single capsule essentially. The big difference between a traditional nuclear power plant vs small modular reactors is small modular reactors can be built in a factory while a traditional nuclear power plant has to have everything specifically designed for that particular plant and has very few interchangeable parts with other plants etc.



Post# 1160251 , Reply# 36   9/23/2022 at 19:59 by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Reply #35

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Hi Sean, I know that, BUT even if it costs 1/2 as much it still won't make economic sense.

 

We will just have to wait and see, but I stand by my prediction that few if any major nuclear power plants will be built in the next 20 some years in the US.

 

John L. 


Post# 1160252 , Reply# 37   9/23/2022 at 20:01 by WindRivers (Wind River Range, WY)        

Interesting how the past generations have done so much that seemingly can't be done with the workmanship, affordability, time and other constraints today. We can't even seem to maintain the infrastructure they built.

But back in the real world (Wyoming), work has begun on the Natrium Reactor Demonstration project which is to be a nuclear power generation facility: www.terrapower.com/natriu...



Post# 1160272 , Reply# 38   9/24/2022 at 01:59 by WindRivers (Wind River Range, WY)        
Back to the OP

It looks as if that may not be a particularly busy laundromat, and maybe the owners are using the drought as an excuse to shut down some of their least profitable machines.

Given that the machines they are shutting down are Maytags they may be broken down the majority of the time anyway, maybe they think that putting signs on them making themselves out to be environmentally conscious is better than constantly having "out of order" signs on them, or having them constantly repaired.


Post# 1160290 , Reply# 39   9/24/2022 at 08:15 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
No, that doesn't figure.

A front loader holds more than a top loader unless it's overloaded. No big agitator taking up volume in the basket.
A front loader cleans by scrubbing more than rolling the laundry in deep water. Thats why they take longer. They also save power, so that adds profitablility.
The induction motors pause between direction shifts, and just draw lower wattage.


Post# 1160296 , Reply# 40   9/24/2022 at 08:40 by Adam-aussie-vac (Canberra ACT)        
What about front loaders

That HAVE an induction motor?


Post# 1160299 , Reply# 41   9/24/2022 at 11:19 by WindRivers (Wind River Range, WY)        
No, that doesn't figure.

What doesn't figure? That trouble-prone TL Maytags aren't as profitable as water and power saving FLs?

Post# 1160307 , Reply# 42   9/24/2022 at 13:26 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
No,

especially on the deep water wash cycle. I had one, and my sister has a newer type with knobs. If the load was unbalanced, it kept draining, and refilling with enough water to shift the load around. Those are old dependable care Maytags at the top of the page though.

Post# 1160309 , Reply# 43   9/24/2022 at 13:58 by WindRivers (Wind River Range, WY)        
What?!

So you think that the TL Maytags are more profitable than the FL Dexters and such? You think that the old probably heavily used Maytags are as dependable and cost effective in a commercial setting?

You don't think a laundromat with few customers and a certain percentage of machines that remain idle throughout the day might not look for an excuse to take the least profitable ones out of commission?

I'm just not sure what you're disagreeing with or what you're point is.


Post# 1160357 , Reply# 44   9/25/2022 at 08:36 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
Jeff,

that's waht I semise from logic, and we don't have to agree. You live in Wyoming, which much of is sparsley populated. Until (if) in your lifetime the Yellowstone cladera blows, you'll be fine. California, on the other end of the totem pole has a severe water shortage. Fires are a real danger, most lawns are astroturf today, property owners on hillsides must keep the chaparal cut to less than 5 inches to help stave off fires. Gas appliances are being outlawed, and top load washers may be too.
Nevada is in the same boat, with the Lake Meade water level so low, the Hoover dam generator intakes may not even be submerged soon, and blackouts may occur.
Change is a given for energy, environment, climate, etc. Adapt, change, or get out of the way. We live on a raging planet, and if the human race is to evolvr and live on, we must use the inteligence given by our higher powers in the universe and or hevans to figure out a way off this rock. We got to the moon, it can be done.
I'm certain those on the Titanic disagreed on many things, but as soon as it began to sink, they all realized they really were "in the same boat"


Post# 1160360 , Reply# 45   9/25/2022 at 09:15 by WindRivers (Wind River Range, WY)        

Maybe someone else can answer, because I really don't know.

Is an old Maytag TL in the laundromat in the OP as profitable as the Dexter machines and such?

I was assuming they're not, even if they are the old Dependable Care Maytags I would think that in a hard used laundromat setting they might be nearing the end of their time where keeping them repaired could be problematic. Initially I was thinking they were the later Whirlpool versions that would be problematic to begin with. Mike set me straight on that.

Otherwise Mike tells me I'm wrong but then continues to give lectures on water conservation and the superiority of FLs, which has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.

For that matter I'm not even clear what is meant by the title of this thread "60s - 70s Laundromat"? Are any of those machines from the 60s or 70s, even the Maytag Dependable Cares?


Post# 1160372 , Reply# 46   9/25/2022 at 11:00 by WindRivers (Wind River Range, WY)        
California...most lawns are astroturf

Astroturf? Isn't that grass made of petroleum products?

They really know how to go green!


Post# 1160385 , Reply# 47   9/25/2022 at 15:12 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
See, that's what I mean!

Petroleum is in anything plastic! If an alternative isn't available, or practical, thats one thing. It is often human nature to avoid change until the supply is nearly or has been depleated. Decorative stone front yards are also popular.
I hope you never need an I.V., or cathiterization in a hospital! Those are also of plastics, and or silicones. So are injection syringes. How many of those are used daily? I bet they use more plastic than a lawn per capita per anum.
Heck, a coffee K cup has at least half as much as a plastic grocery bag. Those are also recycleable. I clean mine out, and fill an empty fiber suppliment can with them twice per month. Add that volume up for all the Kuerig users! Everything is incremental, like a penny. A hundred still add up to a dollar. Think! Don't just look inside your own little box life.


Post# 1160403 , Reply# 48   9/25/2022 at 20:01 by WindRivers (Wind River Range, WY)        

I made a joke about Astroturf. Apparently you found it offensive for some reason, but I think imitation grass is emblematic of the imitation environmentalism of so many promoting the "green" agenda. They're the ones railing against the petroleum industry even as they fly their jets and build their mansions. Yes, they're doing their part. Attempting to cover their part of the earth in petroleum products that will sooner or later need to be replaced, yet won't compost in the landfill, all the while preaching how the petroleum industry needs to be shut down. Nothing greener than fake grass.

Kind of reminds me of the couple who moved her from California, built their fancy house in the middle of a major migration corridor, then preach to everyone else how they need to be more environmentally aware.

I still haven't gotten a clear answer to my question, and I don't know why you find it so necessary to continually lecture me about the environment, or anything else.

I bet I am more green than you or the majority of those here. I live here because I love, respect and understand the environment. I conserve as much as I can and have little waste. Go preach to someone else. At the same time I'm am realistic about it. I know a lot of the "environmental" problems are actually policy problems, and I don't automatically fall for hysterics and fear mongering masquerading as "science". So many don't even consider the unintended consequences of their well intentioned solutions. Do you even have a clue as to how much petroleum we have here in the U.S., or what damage the forced change to "green" energy is and will do?

I wonder who is living life in their own little box, and who is just following the crowd with their group-think? Use a little reason. Try answering a question if you know the answer, don't bother if you don't.

So, does anyone have any idea how profitable those old Maytag TLs are in a commercial setting as in the OP? Oh, never mind, I don't need another lecture just for asking.



Post# 1160406 , Reply# 49   9/25/2022 at 20:13 by luxflairguy (Wilmington NC)        

Am I confused? What the HELL does astro turf have to do with this? Just saying!

Post# 1160412 , Reply# 50   9/25/2022 at 21:31 by WindRivers (Wind River Range, WY)        
What does astro turf have to do with this?

Don't know, but apparently this isn't the place to ask questions about the use of TLs in commercial settings, it seems to get people ticked off so they go off on things like Astroturf, and if you make a comment about their comment on Astroturf it ticks them off even more.

Tow the line, top loaders are bad, don't even mention them, or suffer a series of lectures on things like Astroturf.


Post# 1160419 , Reply# 51   9/25/2022 at 22:16 by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)        
Commercial washer operating costs

combo52's profile picture
Hi Jeff, a commercial Maytag dependable care washer as pictured would use over twice as much water and probably three times as much electricity to operate per load and approximately three times as much hot water if sat on the pot wash assuming all rinses are cold which they normally are.

A commercial quality frontload washer like the Dexters or a current Speed Queen will outlast two or three top loading washers as well.

If I was the laundromat owner and water cost or energy Costs were hi I would definitely try to get rid of the top loading washers.

Everything in life has trade-offs Astroturf is probably not much of a problem number one very few homes in California use Astroturf, and compared to the amount of gasoline and oil to run lawn cutting equipment the Astroturf probably use more ecological pretty quickly to say nothing of water Fertilizer and additional human labor etc.

John L

John Al


Post# 1160423 , Reply# 52   9/25/2022 at 23:01 by WindRivers (Wind River Range, WY)        
Thanks John!

I thought there may be personal reasons as well as drought concerns that may help them decide to shut them down. Not to say that they aren't decent people wanting to do the right thing. But I can imagine if they shut them down without having a good reason without the drought, die-hard customers who only ever used and know TL washers may have revolted. Maybe when (hopefully) the drought ends, I can get them to give them to me, and they can claim they were stolen, and the die hard TL people won't riot as much. (I hope at least some people have an idea when I'm joking, it may not always be clear.)

I didn't think it seemed right to me that most lawns were now Astroturf. I can see like patio areas and apartment balconies and such, at least that much makes sense to me. I'm not sure how you would do a whole yard, especially if you had dogs and such, seems like you would still use a lot of water just trying to keep it clean.

Anyway I'll try to get off Astroturf, but thanks for your answers!


Post# 1160436 , Reply# 53   9/26/2022 at 09:42 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
See, John explained

it well enough! Jeff mentioned astro-turf, not I. He criricized Californians for using it because it's made from petreoleum, and wasn't green. I was proving it was a poor parallel to going green, conserving water, power, etc.
If you know, you know. If you don't see the forest for the tree's, you don't know, so you don't care, and keep wasting, polluting, and being ignorant to the climate and environment.
Enough preaching! Practice it!


Post# 1160441 , Reply# 54   9/26/2022 at 11:56 by WindRivers (Wind River Range, WY)        

Reply 53: "Jeff mentioned astro-turf, not I."

Yet you will see the first mention of Astroturf being in reply 44 written by Mike (vacerator), proving Mike's response to not be honest. Maybe not purposely lying, maybe he just not sure what's going on.

I do appreciate John's answering. It would often be better if those who couldn't answer didn't bother replying. If you don't know, learn or shut up.

I agree "enough preaching, practice it!" I wonder how many others here pay right around $40 a month in electric bills? And around half of that is regularly occurring monthly fees. My electric bill also includes my water bill as my water is pumped from the ground. My "lawn" is natural ground cover and doesn't get watered other than rain. Keep your wonderful green Astroturf, I sure don't want it.

I wonder how many here take a load of trash to the dump once each year? The rest is composted, recycled, or reused. I wonder how many here actually see, use, care for and enjoy the environment and the earth they seem to worship.

And yes, we don't need people fleeing a failed state coming here and trying to implement the same policies that caused their state to fail.

I see both the forest and the trees almost daily, do you?


Post# 1160442 , Reply# 55   9/26/2022 at 12:07 by WindRivers (Wind River Range, WY)        

I about forgot, I also heat almost entirely with a renewable resource, wood, which the OP mocked on another thread, though I actually took the comparison to Grizzly Adams as a compliment coming from him. Another thing that kind of shows the ignorance and arrogance of many urbanites.

I plan my trips and don't drive any more than I have to. So I'd also put my carbon footprint up against yours.



Post# 1160449 , Reply# 56   9/26/2022 at 15:20 by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan)        
Jeff,

I used Astro turf as a reason for not watering lawns. You couldn't figure that out?
If that makes me dishonest, tough! I even told off a former politician at one of his rally's in 2016 because he's full iof crap!
I drive less than 5,000 miles per year. When we turned in our 2018 lease in 2021, it had 12,500 miles after years. Our current 2020 demo lease had 2,500 at inception, and 8,500 miles now after 15 months. I fill up once a month, and much is local trips.
When we travel, we usually fly. If aboroad like in Europe, we ride trains.



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