Thread Number: 91339
/ Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Why do all newer transmission made Speed Queens low speed spin drain after main wash? |
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Post# 1158512 , Reply# 2   9/2/2022 at 14:37 (456 days old) by Mrsalvo (New Braunfels Texas)   |   | |
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I heard it spins slower so as not to set wrinkles in on Permanent Press fabrics. Frustrating on a load of towels or jeans. At least there’s a short spin rinse that helps. Barry |
Post# 1158513 , Reply# 3   9/2/2022 at 14:43 (456 days old) by qsd-dan ![]() |
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Post# 1158522 , Reply# 4   9/2/2022 at 16:53 (456 days old) by Brisnat81 ![]() |
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The less water extracted, the less water needs to be added to the rinse, which doesn’t help rinsing performance, but does reduce water consumption. |
Post# 1158528 , Reply# 5   9/2/2022 at 19:44 (456 days old) by GELaundry4ever ![]() |
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I think that's stupid. We are not washing permanent press, which would make more sense. If it's on heavy duty, it should spin at fast speed through and through both after main wash and during final spin. |
Post# 1158558 , Reply# 6   9/3/2022 at 05:02 (455 days old) by mrboilwash ![]() |
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That`s certainly not a first time stupid thing.
Remember their grey water rinse? Wash water only drained partially then was topped up with fresh water and FS then followed by a spray rinse. You`d think everybody in the appliance and detergent industry is a aware of the fact that detergent and FS don`t mix well. Well, apparently everyone but the genius engineers at Speed Queen. |
Post# 1158561 , Reply# 8   9/3/2022 at 08:18 (455 days old) by GELaundry4ever ![]() |
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They should've had heavy duty and permanent press separate from each other. It would've made more sence for permanent press and delicate to be combined. |
Post# 1158564 , Reply# 9   9/3/2022 at 10:04 (455 days old) by ryner1988 ![]() |
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Angus, I had the opportunity to purchase a used AWN432 washer a couple months ago when my old machine died, and the issues you describe are a major reason I hesitated and ended up going with a whirlpool direct drive instead. I'd heard about the frustratingly low fill level on extra large, and I almost always wash full loads. The AWN and the DD I purchased both have 3.2 cubic feet capacity, but the DD fills all the way so I figured I would not have to decrease my load size to match but I thought I might have to do this with the 2017 SQ. I know there's a way to fix this with a screw in the back of the machine, I just didn't want to risk messing something up.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe the deep wash on the TC5 actually does fill all the way up to the top. I would probably own that machine if it wasn't so expensive. |
Post# 1158566 , Reply# 10   9/3/2022 at 10:34 (455 days old) by qsd-dan ![]() |
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Post# 1158764 , Reply# 12   9/5/2022 at 17:09 (453 days old) by GELaundry4ever ![]() |
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It makes me angry why anybody would use low speed spin on the heavy duty cycle. What was Speed Queen thinking? Do they think we're stupid? I wish there was a way I could disable the low speed spin on heavy duty so it will extract all the wash water out! |
Post# 1158770 , Reply# 13   9/5/2022 at 18:23 (453 days old) by volsboy1 (East Tenn Smoky mountains )   |   | |
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![]() That's odd you bringing it up about somebody getting there arm ripped off by a washer, I have a friend who had that very thing happen to him.I don't know what he was thinking he tried to slow it down spinning and a wet towel wrapped around his arm and ripped it off at the shoulder. It ripped off his arm so fast he didn't realize what happened until it was to late. They could not reattach it this was in the 80s. That's the strange thing though,I did not feel much pain at all either until I woke up from surgery and my leg was gone.Worse pain in my life ,baseball bat to the shin is what it felt like. |
Post# 1158822 , Reply# 14   9/5/2022 at 22:09 (453 days old) by chetlaham ![]() |
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I agree in full!
I've come to the conclusion most users assume PP is a cycle that offers a less intensive wash action for casual items. And not 10 minutes of normal agitation. So if anything, PP belongs on the delicate cycle. GE in the mid 2000s got it right IMO. They dropped the words "Permanent Press" from the control panel and changed the cycle name to "casuals". Casuals either had low speed agitation or intermittent agitation followed by normal high speed spins. The tech tech sheets still calls this cycle "permanent press" but it does not have any of the typical characteristics found in a permanent press cycle. One speed models also call the delicate cycle "colors" while two speed models call this cycle "gentle" or delicate" GE cycles have always made more sense, and I've always been under the opinion that all other washers manufacturers should have taken this approach. |
Post# 1158856 , Reply# 15   9/6/2022 at 06:42 (452 days old) by combo52 ![]() |
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![]() This is done to reduce wrinkling if clothing was washed in hot or warm water and to reduce foam from backing up out of the drain standpipe in some homes.
This really does not make any real performance difference, you are only talking about leaving about one cup more water in a load going into the rinse cycle.
The machine is still spinning faster than a WP belt drive ever spun in this first spin.
It is funny the things us washer guys worry about but we have never had any complainant about this from a customer and in fact one of the comments I get about the TC-5s from customers is how well rinsed the clothes seem.
All that said and even though I have been involved in the sale and servicing of well over a thousand of these washers I would not have one in my home or ANY NEW TL Washer built today.
If I can't have a vintage TL washer with a Suds-Saver A modern FL machine just does so much better job.
John L. |
Post# 1158871 , Reply# 16   9/6/2022 at 10:15 (452 days old) by GELaundry4ever ![]() |
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Older speed queens always did high speed spin during heavy duty. They should've combined normal and heavy duty together. I believe it was the 2014 and older ones that always spun at high speeds. I've NEVER had any foam back out of my standpipe. |
Post# 1158919 , Reply# 18   9/6/2022 at 18:38 (452 days old) by lakewebsterkid ![]() |
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My bet is on the suds and foam issue at the standpipe that seems to be fairly common in these machines. If it were purely for water efficiency, I doubt they would use it on the Heavy Duty cycle as well. Could be wrong though. |
Post# 1159224 , Reply# 20   9/10/2022 at 15:14 (448 days old) by GELaundry4ever ![]() |
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I would force these machines to use high speed spin at all times during normal eco and heavy duty cycles. I am so sick and tired of the low speed spin. It drives me insane! |
Post# 1159231 , Reply# 21   9/10/2022 at 17:11 (448 days old) by qsd-dan ![]() |
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I can buy the overflowing standpipe theory for the slower spin as there were many, many complaints about that problem. I don't buy the wrinkling clothes theory.
Not sure why Speed Queen didn't shift the motor to a faster speed once most of the water was out of the tub ala Frigidaire Multimatic and Rollermatic style. |
Post# 1159233 , Reply# 22   9/10/2022 at 17:25 (448 days old) by chetlaham ![]() |
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When techs and Speed Queen reps say over flowing, is it water or suds coming out? I know on my Queen that when I use high suds detergent a bit of foam will come out of the pipe once the pump starts drawing air.
I did see a few renatal properties that had Speed Queens in the coin-op laundry rooms where the sheetrock around hookup was badly water stained... A few times I even saw suds in real time coming down the wall. |
Post# 1159243 , Reply# 23   9/10/2022 at 19:24 (448 days old) by GELaundry4ever ![]() |
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the low speed spin during heavy duty is stupid. If it truly does prevent wrinkling, they should've sprayed water as soon as the draining is about to finish. They should've left it on high spin. |
Post# 1159248 , Reply# 24   9/10/2022 at 20:02 (448 days old) by chetlaham ![]() |
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I agree. My honest opinion: Permanent Press isn't a concept that is not of actually need. I think customers are looking for Fast/Fast, Slow/Fast, and Slow/Slow.
Right now I'm washing just a few items plus a pair of not very soiled jeans in my Queen and being honest I wish I could have a 10 minutes slow/fast wash vs the high speed agitation. Actually, IMO 15 minutes of low speed agitation provides better results than 10 minutes of high speed agitation for normally soiled items. |
Post# 1159286 , Reply# 25   9/11/2022 at 07:32 (447 days old) by Frigilux ![]() |
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As someone who experienced suds & water backing up out of the standpipe with his 542–this is back when I was in the house—I was not surprised or disappointed that the first spin on my 2017 9-Series is slow. The plumbing in this 8-plex would have no problem handling a fast pump-out & spin, but I’m with John on this one: It really doesn’t affect the machine’s rinsing performance, which is nothing to write home about under the best of circumstances.
Aside: After a little over 5 years of 5-7 loads per week, the machine finally experienced a cabinet-banging unbalanced load on Friday. Once a month or so, I add the very heavy mattress pad to the load of queen-sized sheets and 7 pillowcases. Surprised it hasn’t occurred before now, to be honest. My laundry pair are housed just a few steps outside my apartment in a utility room/pass-through to the back of the building and garage. I was reading the paper over a cup of coffee when I heard THUD. THUD. THUD. THUD. After about a dozen thuds, I was getting a bit annoyed at whomever in the building was causing the racket. Then it dawned on me: That’s the Speed Queen! LOL The better part of both sheets had gotten trapped in the deep pockets of the mattress pad, so the severity of the unbalance was understandable. The washer is on a vinyl-over wood floor and didn’t move a bit during the thudding. I was impressed! OK, that’s minutiae, I know, but figured this is the place to mention it. A great Sunday to everyone in the AW family! |
Post# 1159630 , Reply# 27   9/16/2022 at 03:41 (442 days old) by qsd-dan ![]() |
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Post# 1159631 , Reply# 28   9/16/2022 at 03:53 (442 days old) by biggpete (Hillsborugh County Florida)   |   | |
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Yes, I know they weigh 298lbs. I was just being facetious. However, 27 extra pounds is really not that much more for an, old school washer from 200 years ago. |
Post# 1159681 , Reply# 29   9/17/2022 at 00:25 (442 days old) by biggpete (Hillsborugh County Florida)   |   | |
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I mean 198 not 298lbs. That would be more like my Speed Queen FF7 washer alone which comes in at 270lbs |
Post# 1159718 , Reply# 32   9/17/2022 at 12:41 (441 days old) by ryner1988 ![]() |
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How do you have such good luck with powdered detergent? I found it left dusty-feeling stuff at the bottom of my wash tub, as well as stiffer feeling clothes. Then again, I was using Arm and Hammer, maybe that had something to do with it. I have some Ariel powdered detergent stored but haven't used it yet, am currently using Tide liquid with oxi. But powder is easier for me as a blind person, the scoop is way easier to deal with than the liquid cap as it makes less of a mess for me, so if powder in a different brand than I was using works, that would be great.
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Post# 1159722 , Reply# 33   9/17/2022 at 13:15 (441 days old) by DADoES ![]() |
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![]() I plan to buy a new vehicle before they force electric cars on us. I would feel different if it would just convert to gasoline only after the battery was depleted. My experience with rechargeable battery stuff has not been good.There was step-up choice when I bought my hybrid in 2014 for a power system with more electric range capacity and plug-in recharge (vs. generator recharge via engine operation). The step-up also had a gasoline engine but doesn't need to run it as much. The owner manual covers both models and details that the control system would monitor the gasoline supply and may after a timeframe of months run the engine when it otherwise wasn't necessary to avoid the supply going stale. I somewhat regret now that I didn't opt for the upgrade. I've had no trouble thus far with the high-voltage battery pack (the original 12v battery also hasn't yet been replaced). |
Post# 1159737 , Reply# 34   9/17/2022 at 16:58 (441 days old) by combo52 ![]() |
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Post# 1159738 , Reply# 35   9/17/2022 at 17:21 (441 days old) by ryner1988 ![]() |
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Post# 1159751 , Reply# 36   9/17/2022 at 20:58 (441 days old) by GELaundry4ever ![]() |
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I use the hygienic clean pods from tide and I have no issues. |
Post# 1159808 , Reply# 38   9/18/2022 at 10:11 (440 days old) by combo52 ![]() |
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Post# 1160102 , Reply# 39   9/21/2022 at 22:17 (437 days old) by GELaundry4ever ![]() |
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I always place laundry pods in the machine before clothes to all the agitator to stir them. |
Post# 1183653 , Reply# 42   6/28/2023 at 15:41 by qsd-dan ![]() |
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Post# 1183672 , Reply# 43   6/28/2023 at 19:16 by chetlaham ![]() |
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Post# 1183838 , Reply# 45   6/30/2023 at 17:58 by DADoES ![]() |
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![]() Jerome, other people have experiences different than yours. Whirlpool direct-drive washers drain at a faster rate than old-style belt-drives. There were instances of delivering a new direct-drive as replacement for a belt-drive, the standpipe overflowed during drain on the test run. Maybe from clogging, maybe from a restriction due to the size of the plumbing. It wasn't our problem to figure that out. I learned after the first incident to listen for water gurgling up in the standpipe for a potential overflow and stop it before a flood occurred. A workaround to finish the installation test was switch to slow spin to get the water drained. We advised the customer accordingly to call a plumber or whatever was required on their part to solve the problem. There were a couple instances of delivery to a garage or out-building installation with the customer not home so we left a written note. |
Post# 1183954 , Reply# 48   7/1/2023 at 22:51 by chetlaham ![]() |
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Post# 1184043 , Reply# 49   7/3/2023 at 09:00 by GELaundry4ever ![]() |
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Speed Queen should've done what GE did. What they could've done is do a neutral drain, then start on slow for a minute, then shift to high speed spin. My previous GE did that. It was the post filter-flo. |
Post# 1184315 , Reply# 50   7/7/2023 at 07:26 by chetlaham ![]() |
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![]() Very bad idea. The water washes up and away during spin drain preventing crud, scum and lint from redepositing around the outer tub, inner tub and agitator. Every washer that I've used with neutral drain develops scum rings around the agi and washtub. Things being left behind on fabric was more prevalent. Clothes also end up being clumped at the bottom wrinkled instead of being spread out across the wash-basket wall at the end of the cycle. You need a reasonably fast spin during draining which accelerates relative to the amount of water still being pumped out.
The pump out rate itself would have to be reduced, which is what a low speed spin is trying to accomplish. This is wear switching to high should come into play after the low speed spin-drain. |
Post# 1184316 , Reply# 51   7/7/2023 at 07:56 by GELaundry4ever ![]() |
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Speed Queen washers do have powerful motors. I ran one of them with bleach and hot water and the machine had very strong turbulence. The pump was also powerful especially on high speed spin. |
Post# 1184326 , Reply# 52   7/7/2023 at 10:50 by combo52 ![]() |
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Neutral drain machines don’t get any dirtier than spin drain machines and the clothing gets cleaner.
But worst offenders for scum and sludge, buildup or Ge Filter Flow‘s Maytag later LAT models, etc. Every top loading washer in the world that has the capability of a neutral drain uses it, because engineers know it works better. And I’m sure you know that Speed Queen sells their traditional transmission washers with an electric drain pump in countries where people don’t use clothes dryers much because of the problem with lint and grit being re-deposited by the spin drain. Facts are facts. It’s time to get your emotions out of engineering. John. |
Post# 1184335 , Reply# 53   7/7/2023 at 12:15 by kenwashesmonday ![]() |
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How would a neutral drain machine get the clothes cleaner? |
Post# 1184336 , Reply# 54   7/7/2023 at 12:36 by chetlaham ![]() |
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![]() Speed Queen motors are rated 1/2HP, and have a centrifugal controlled start winding with a capacitor in series which provides a fast, powerful "kick" upon start up. Pump out rate is excellent, I even removed the molded reducing orifice at the end of drain hose when I installed my Speed Queen washer in late 2013.
I think all top load washers should have at least a 1/2 HP drain pump, and ideally a 3/4 HP drive motor- minimum. A separate drain pump is a reliability issue in part due to their lack of torque. My top load 1997 GE washers had the 180 watt Italian pump, and I remember after two years the pump started to do this thing where it would slow down during drain. You could hear it. (I'm guessing threads wrapped around the impeller shaft did this based on pumps I took out at an apartment scrap pile.) The tub would start to spin while still full of water, the pressure switch would trip, re-start spin, over and over. You think that with the presence of a clutch on the motor shaft there wouldn't be a need to run the spin circuit through the pressure switch, but apparently if you hold the water level knob interim keeping the switch in fill mode the spin would cause water to come out the over-flow pipe. Funny that did not happen with the filter flos... Put a shield above the motor, ditch the overflow pipe, bring down the water/suds drag honey combs on the inner tub, attach the drain pump directly to the drive motor, beef up the clutch a bit, Goodyear belt and then maybe the Model Ts would resemble an attempt at a clothes washer.
The Models had one redeeming quality (if I can allow myself to say such a thing) in that if you turned off the drain pump while in spin the machine was very quiet. A pump attached to the main motor would have preserved most of that tranquility. But the drain pump was so noisy gargling while vibrating the base pan it undid everything making the washer the loudest appliance in the house. |
Post# 1184344 , Reply# 55   7/7/2023 at 14:13 by GELaundry4ever ![]() |
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And maybe they should just beef up the agitation like on previous models. What do you think? |
Post# 1184353 , Reply# 56   7/7/2023 at 16:15 by chetlaham ![]() |
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![]() Bigger transmission, long stroke agitation. A third port on the pump going back up via hose to a flume in the tub cover.
The one major draw back regarding the filter flos was the amount of water between the inner and outer tubs. In theory the could have combined the two into one suspended unit, then hung it from 4 rods like the model Ts. Porcelain on steel outer tub, stainless steal or porcelain speckled inner tub.
I still don't like the hanging concept all that much, perhaps a milk stool suspension like Speed Queen. Or a 4 point corner design I once theorized. The Filter Flo could have been re-designed into a real washer. Though the original design would always have a charm of its own. |
Post# 1184371 , Reply# 57   7/7/2023 at 20:52 by GELaundry4ever ![]() |
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I remember the GE filter-flo agitated at 100 strokes per minute while the later models agitated at 154 strokes per minute. This was at normal speed. What are your thoughts? |
Post# 1184405 , Reply# 58   7/8/2023 at 06:26 by chetlaham ![]() |
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