Thread Number: 91403  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Miele UltraWhite Powder Detegrent USA Version Inferior to European Version
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Post# 1159154   9/9/2022 at 14:32 by Hippo (Oregon)        

Miele finally published the list of ingredients in their UltraWhite powder detergent that is sold in the USA as they are required to do by the California Cleaning Products Right to Know Act. Disappointingly the USA formulation is very different than the formula sold under the same name in Europe.

Without parsing the ingredient differences in excessive detail, it suffices to say that apart from the generous amounts of sodium carbonate peroxide and TAED activator they are completely unrelated formulations.

The by far most important difference, however, is in the enzyme compliment. The USA version has ONLY TWO ENZYMES:
1) subtilisin for protein stains
2) amylase for starch stains

The European version, meanwhile, has SIX ENZYMES:
1) subtilisin for protein stains
2) amylase for starch stains
3) mannanase for carbohydrate stains
4) lipase for fat stains
5) pectate lyase for fruit stains
6) cellulase for pilling prevention and color protection

I know that American washing cycles are typically shorter which are less suited to enzymatic cleaning, but at $35 per box I think it is reasonable to expect the best formulation. Further, many North American users of Miele UltraWhite will be using Miele machines with suitably long cycles for effective enzymatic cleaning. And while Miele didn't explicitly advertise the USA and European products as identical it was certainly implied and it feels duplicitous to sell such a cut-rate formula in the US under the same name. I am very disappointed in Miele USA.

Unfortunately they have not yet posted, in penalizable violation of California law, the ingredients for the US versions of UltraPhase 1, UltraDark, or UltraColor so we cannot see if those also lack the full compliment of enzymes or have other undesirable changes.

Link to US ingredients PDF: media.miele.com/downloads/5e/fa/...
Link to European ingredients: media.miele.com/downloads/40/61/...


Post# 1159159 , Reply# 1   9/9/2022 at 16:12 by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
cleaning power

What's the cleaning power? Why are consumers forced to use additives like bleach and softener?

Post# 1159160 , Reply# 2   9/9/2022 at 16:55 by Hippo (Oregon)        

Miele are also currently falsely advertising 7 enzymes in UltraColor Powder detergent on their US website: www.mieleusa.com/e/ultrac...

It only has two enzymes, the same compliment as the US version of UltraWhite.

UltraColor Ingredients PDF: media.miele.com/downloads/c3/b9/...


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Post# 1159165 , Reply# 3   9/9/2022 at 18:50 by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
comparison to tide hygienic clean

How does this compare to tide hygienic clean?

Post# 1159409 , Reply# 4   9/12/2022 at 17:36 by Hippo (Oregon)        

GELaundry4ever, I have not used Tide Hygienic Clean 10X so I cannot personally evaluate its real-world performance, although I have read good reviews of its stain removal. However, it is a very deceptively named product. Neither the liquid nor packs contain any bleaching or sanitizing agents as suggested by the "hygienic" in the name.

Primary research literature that I have read generally suggests that conventional laundry detergents only containing surfactants or surfactants and enzymes for stain removal have limited effects on bacteria, viruses, and funguses in normal laundry procedures generally up to about a 3-log (99.9%) reduction in cold or warm water through a combination of surfactant action and physical removal. Depending on the species and conditions the removal may be much lower, especially for funguses. A third rinse has good evidence for improving microorganism removal versus fewer rinses. Tide Hygienic Clean 10X would fall into this category of detergent.

Some powder detergents combine an oxygen bleach, such as sodium carbonate peroxide, and an activator, such as TAED, to create in-situ peracetic acid which is a very effective bleaching agent and disinfectant across a wide range of temperatures. This combination is typically referred to as "activated oxygen bleach" or AOB. These detergents are particularly effective at addressing organic pigment and tannin stains, keeping whites white, and eliminating microorganisms in both laundry and machines. Generally AOB detergents will reduce viruses and bacteria on the order of 5-7 log (99.999% to 99.99999%) or more depending on species and laundry procedure. They are less effective against funguses than they are against viruses and bacteria but still superior to their non-AOB counterparts. Funguses are best addressed with wash temperatures truly in excess of 60C.

It is very important to note that only powder detergents can contain AOB or bleaching agents as they are not stable in liquid formulation and when combined with other detergent ingredients. All liquid detergents that claim "plus Oxi" or "Oxi power" etc simply have more optical brightening agents and no real bleaching action.

Powder detergents on the US market are increasingly rare, but Tide Original Powder, Tide with Bleach Powder, Tide Ultra OXI Powder, and Miele UltraWhite Powder all contain AOB. Miele UltraWhite, in both its European and North American formulations, is notable for containing much more AOB than any other detergent of which I am aware.

This is all a long way of explaining that Tide Hygenic Clean and Miele UltraWhite are very different products as Tide Hygenic Clean employs surfactant and enzymatic cleaning and has no direct biocidal or bleaching effect while Miele UltraWhite primarily relies on AOB for stain removal while also employing enzymes, surfactants, and water softening agents. Due to the AOB the Miele UltraWhite also has very substantial antimicrobial activity even when not used with hot water.

For comparison purposes:

Miele UltraWhite North America:
Exceptionally high AOB concentration
Surfactants
Enzymes:
1) subtilisin for protein stains
2) amylase for starch stains

Miele UltraWhite Europe:
Exceptionally high AOB concentration
Surfactants
Enzymes:
1) subtilisin for protein stains
2) amylase for starch stains
3) mannanase for carbohydrate stains
4) lipase for fat stains
5) pectate lyase for fruit stains
6) cellulase for pilling prevention and color protection

Tide Hygenic Clean 10X:
No AOB, no bleaching agents, no antimicrobial agents
Surfactants
Enzymes:
1) subtilisin for protein stains
2) amylase for starch stains
3) mannanase for carbohydrate stains
4) pectate lyase for fruit stains

Tide Original Powder, Tide Ultra OXI Powder, and Tide with Bleach Powder:
AOB
Surfactants
1) subtilisin for protein stains
2) amylase for starch stains
3) lipase for fat stains

I recommend a powder detergent with AOB for washing all cotton whites and polyester whites. Do not use AOB with wool, silk, or nylon. Also, a powder detergent with AOB, preferably along with a cycle that truly exceeds 60C and has three or more rinses, should be used for colorfast garments with hygienic concerns where microorganisms should be effectively eliminated.

Regularly using a detergent which contains AOB is a research-proven way to prevent microbial growth within the washing machine itself irrespective of whether it is a front- or top-load design.


Post# 1159447 , Reply# 5   9/13/2022 at 09:18 by GELaundry4ever (Killeen tx USA)        
tide hygienic clean

It's amazing to me why tide hygienic clean doesn't have any bleaching agents in it. It used to be that it will remove impossible stains like caked-on dirt and blood.


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