Thread Number: 91409  /  Tag: Modern Automatic Washers
Are there any new mechanical timer washers & dryers being sold
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Post# 1159213   9/10/2022 at 13:21 by RickC (New Jersey)        

Are there any new mechanical timer washers & dryers being sold? My sister has decided she is done with the short lifespan of the computer boards on her machines and is looking to buy a new set, but wants mechanical timers on both. I know some models look like they have a mechanical timer, but there is still a computer board used for the cycles. Any true mechanical timers? She (unfortunately) doesn't want to deal with vintage.

Post# 1159214 , Reply# 1   9/10/2022 at 13:29 by qsd-dan (West)        

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Maybe a few select low end dryers but I don't think any exist for washers. Gotta go vintage if you want QUALITY made mechanical timers.

Post# 1159221 , Reply# 2   9/10/2022 at 15:03 by chetlaham (United States)        

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Commercial OPL Speed Queens may still offer a timer:

speedqueencommercial.com/en-us/p...


Other than that, not to my knowledge. That last EM appliance (except for a few clothes dryers) was just discontinued not long ago.

If everyone was like me, EM timers would not only be around today but make up of 98% of all appliances including microwave ovens. Considering it only takes a handful of sequences to drive a quality appliance electronics are of absolutely no practicality, benefit or gain.


Post# 1159222 , Reply# 3   9/10/2022 at 15:04 by chetlaham (United States)        

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Scratch that, Speed Queen might have ditched the timer looking at the updated pics on their site. Sigh. :(

Post# 1159234 , Reply# 4   9/10/2022 at 17:44 by Pierreandreply4 (St-Bruno de montarville (province of quebec) canada)        
has mention i would suggest going vintage

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i also suggest going vintage with eather a whirlpool direct drive mecanical timer washer dryer set or vintage belt drive set like in these pics first pic ge filter flo with mini basket if you have small loads

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Post# 1159254 , Reply# 5   9/10/2022 at 21:56 by RickC (New Jersey)        
Thanks

I thought that might be the situation. I will try again to see if she will consider vintage. I know that's what I would prefer, but she's fixated on new.

Post# 1159262 , Reply# 6   9/11/2022 at 00:13 by bradfordwhite (West Coast, U.S.)        

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The best solution I've found to make electronic timers, and electronic devices in general, last and operate problem free is to simply unplug them or some how turn off the electricity to the device when not in use. Give them at least a half an hour per day not energized.

Pull the plug on that electronic washer when it's not in use. Or install a timer.
So easy.

This also holds true for cel phones, modems, and computers.

But I can bet that's TOO EASY, yes too easy for some and there are those who will scoff at the very notion.


For those who scoff and fail to implement such a simple idea that works- you deserve the problems you'll get.


Post# 1159264 , Reply# 7   9/11/2022 at 00:55 by Maytag85 (Sean A806)        

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Only laundry appliances that come with mechanical timers are usually dryers. There hasnít been a Whirlpool washer which a mechanical timer for quite awhile, last model I am aware that came with any sort of mechanical timer were the Whirlpool 24Ē thin twin laundry center.

Post# 1159266 , Reply# 8   9/11/2022 at 01:39 by petek (Ontari ari ari O )        

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Hmmm there's maybe something in that unplugging of the washer..Know of any studies.. It's easy for me to unplug the washer, the dryer is a little more not worth it because the big plug isn't easly accessible it's a 30 odd year old Kenmore with a mechanical times and only required one belt replacement over 16 years ago.. Runs like a champ, chips, scrapes and scratches and all.

Post# 1159274 , Reply# 9   9/11/2022 at 04:22 by WindRivers (Wind River Range, WY)        
Unpluging Washers

Might want to do a little research. I believed it was safer to unplug appliances with electronic control boards because I was afraid of power surges, even though I also had surge protectors.

Then I read that constantly letting the capacitors drain and then recharging them by plugging them in and out also leads to shortened life for the caps and boards. Plus plugging in the machine can cause an initial surge also.

So it may not be as simple as declaring those who don't continually plug and unplug their machines all the time as lazy and ignorant.

I think quality electronic boards can be made, just that the main companies today don't seem to care about reliability. I have decades old radios, even an old microwave with a control board that's lasted 30 to 40 years. Maybe that's not as rough service as a washing machine, but then automobiles today have all kinds of electronics, many related to safety that much be somewhat reliable and endure a lot of varied conditions (as an aside, I don't want a vehicle that needs to plugged in, much less unplugged).

Speed Queen claims their boards are as reliable as their old mechanical controls. I suspect the jury's out on that, but I'm sure they're much more reliable than Whirlpool/Maytag's and such.


Post# 1159296 , Reply# 10   9/11/2022 at 09:04 by chetlaham (United States)        
Power Surges

chetlaham's profile picture
Are used to blame every single failure mod and are largely a myth.

1st of all a plugging or unplugging something does not create a voltage spike. Power being restored does not create a voltage spike. Switching on/off devices around the home does not create a voltage spike.

2nd the overwhelming majority of voltage spikes or over voltage events come from either incidental contact between high voltage and low voltage lines (7,200 volt falling into a 120/240 volt secondary), open service neutrals, or direct lightning hits on or close to the home.

3rd it does not matter what type of surge protection you have. A direct lightning hit, open neutral or sustainted 7,200 volts on MOVs will cause them to burn up leaving what ever is being protected unprotected.


The majority of fires and electronic failures come from cheap poorly made boards and connectors which have no taken moisture into account.


Post# 1159317 , Reply# 11   9/11/2022 at 12:56 by WindRivers (Wind River Range, WY)        
Power Spikes

True, nothing will protect against against direct lightning hits, however major appliances being turned on and off can cause instantaneous voltage variations on a household circuit. Brownouts can also be damaging to electronics, not just spikes. Not necessarily "spikes", but fluctuations that can overtime degrade electronics, even if not instantaneously.

While not exactly modern electronics, probably most here have had experience with incandescent light bulbs, when they burn out it is almost always when being turned on, not while in use. While modern electronics may not have such fragile tungsten filaments that heat up instantaneously, there's still a principal there that's works on various circuit elements over time being re-energized on a continual basis.

Probably many here have also seen other electronics that blew on being plugged in or turned on.

I noticed the capacitor issue was not addressed.

Do what you want, but my expensive electronics, such as my computer, is not just going to be on a surge protector, but also on a UPS system to protect against brownouts and dropouts.


Post# 1159319 , Reply# 12   9/11/2022 at 13:50 by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

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I've heard-said that computers are more likely to fail electrically at power-on, but there are mechanicals involved (cooling fans and hard drive motors) so it's one's personal decision whether/when to power-off (or fully disconnect from power) to split the difference on mechanical wear.† A local long-time computer dealer (and owner of the ISP where I worked for 9 years) once said "would you leave your car running continuously?" ... which is a point but also not quite the same thing, and he never shut off his store-office and and sale-display computers (of course the ISP servers were required to run continuously).

My desktop computers are on UPS units, run continuously unless I'm out of the house for more than a day.† My audio/video (including the now 20yo Panasonic plasma panel) is on a Panamax power conditioner, never fully disconnected from power source.


Post# 1159320 , Reply# 13   9/11/2022 at 14:12 by chetlaham (United States)        
VD=I x R (Warning, Number Heavy)

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Power systems can be modeled as a series of equivalent impedances (resistors, inductors, capacitors) in series. Assuming worse case scenarios:

1) A typical 25kva pole transformer can deliver about 14,876 amps of fault current at 120 volts. Page 6:

146.126.90.208/business/services/...

Using ohms law, R=V/I, or 120 volts divided by 14,876 = 0.00807 ohms.

2) 1 AWG AL wire @ 75*C has an AC resistance of 0.2 ohms per 1000 feet. 0.2/1000= 0.0002 ohms per foot. A 50 foot 1 AWG service drop has an AC resistance of 0.02 ohms taking into account both the line and neutral.

3) 14 AWG copper @75*C has a resistance of 3.1 ohms per 1000 feet or 0.0031 ohms per foot. 75 feet of romoex run from the home's panel to an outlet is 0.0031 x 75 x 2= 0.465 ohms

Adding 0.00807 + 0.02 + 0.465 = 0.49 ohms of resistance.

Voltage drop is computed as current times resistance. So, a 12 amp space heater would be 12 amps x 0.5 ohms = 6 volts dropped from the transformer to the heater's outlet. 120-6 = 114 volts.

Typically the measured voltage would be around 117 volts at the outlet as the romex and service drop doesn't actually operate at 167*F; rather I am using these extremes to prove a point.

114 volts while less than 120 is technically legal and will not harm any appliances as neither would 126 volts on the high end. See page 2:


www.pge.com/includes/docs...



Post# 1159321 , Reply# 14   9/11/2022 at 14:19 by chetlaham (United States)        
Incandescent light bulbs

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Do not burn out due to the power supply. Rather there are two factors. First cold light bulbs will have a much lower resistance due to the electrical resistance of any metal varying with temperature. A cold bulb will pull much more current than a fully lit bulb. Second metal expands and becomes stressed when heating up. These two things, especially the stress on a thinned, weakened tungsten elements can cause it to break.

It is not uncommon for a broken element to cause the inert gas in the bulb to ionize as the two broken points on the hot element act like electrodes. Once the gas in the bulb ionizes, an arc forms across the leads, and due to the lack of ballast in essentially what has now become an arc discharge lamp, ever increasing amount of current are drawn until the fuse wires at the base of the socket melt. But not first without a bright blue flash.

Someone like Tolivic could explain it better then I can, but thats kind of it in a nut shell.


Post# 1159329 , Reply# 15   9/11/2022 at 16:12 by qsd-dan (West)        

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"Speed Queen claims their boards are as reliable as their old mechanical controls."

That doesn't say much since the reliability on their mechanical timers were sort of iffy on the 400 and 500 series washers that get used by the typical 4 person household with at least 1 pet.

The TC5000 washers had tons of board failures which supposedly was fixed on the TC5003 models. The TR series had issued from what I read elsewhere. Their front loaders had board failures which can be seen in this older thread:

www.automaticwasher.org/c...

Anybody can make claims, it's real world results out in the field that speak for themselves.


Post# 1159359 , Reply# 16   9/11/2022 at 23:53 by WindRivers (Wind River Range, WY)        

So the question is, does unplugging appliances help make electronic boards last longer, or is it detrimental, or does it make no difference. So far all I see to support the unplugging of electronics is that you're lazy and deserve to have them destroyed if you don't, and people tearing down examples without seeming to understand the point being made, and then going on to explain voltage drop in a line which, as far as I can see, really has nothing to do with fluctuations, dropouts, spikes, or such. For example, light bulbs being turned on and off actually does have something to do with the power supply, that's what powers them. I admitted that it was not a perfect example, but in fact there are stresses on electronic equipment caused by power fluctuations and such, the light bulb is just an extreme example for illustration, energy and heat seem to go together, and even electronic components are affected. Probably everyone here knows ohms law, and probably about as many know that what works theoretically doesn't always work in practice in an imperfect world. Electronic components aren't ideal but suffer from real world limitations, for instance heat is normally an undesired byproduct that indicates inefficiency. It is also well known that even compact fluorescent bulbs will operate for more hours if left on, than being turned off and on daily.

As for the computer example, I have personally seen a power supply blow on startup. True, it was marginally powered for the specs of the hardware, but it had served for I have no idea how much time while the computer was running, but only blew right at startup. I don't think that is some big coincidence and goes along with what others have said about them being more likely to fail on startup. Experience tells me it's more than just computers.

So I mention surges, and I was thinking more of fluctuations so I may have not been clear, and get a lecture about "spikes". I ask about how capacitors are effected and get a lecture on line voltage drop. None of which convinces me I need to give everything that's electrically powered rest breaks and vacations.


Post# 1159361 , Reply# 17   9/12/2022 at 00:56 by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.)        
Seriously?

ea56's profile picture
They are freaking electrical appliances! They are meant to be plugged into the power source. I donít know about you, but Iíve been buying appliances for well over 50 years. And not once have I ever read an owners manual that told me that Iíd better unplug it periodically if i expected it to operate properly and/or last a reasonable length of time.

Now I have read manuals that advise to unplug an appliance if it isnít operating properly to reset the electronic board, but this is meant to be the exception, not the rule. And something that only began being suggested from say 2000 on when electronic control boards first began to be used in most new appliances.

Iíll bet the rent that no one ever had to unplug any appliance periodically from the 30ís, 40ís, 50ís, 60ís, 70ís, 80ís or 90ís to expect it to operate properly.

Yes, old time electro mechanical timer controls failed from time to time, but they sure as hell werenít as temperamental as some of the newer electronic control boards are. And I also realize that this is the way that new appliances are manufactured now, so I can either move with the times or not. So I move with the times but that doesnít mean I have to like it.

Old queen rant over.

Eddie


Post# 1159362 , Reply# 18   9/12/2022 at 00:56 by Chetlaham (United States)        

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Voltage drop, or ohms law, has everything to do with voltage fluctuations. It is why the measurable voltage at any outlet rises and falls through out the day.

Utilities will often boost voltage at the substation (through transformer tap changers) to off set voltage drop in distribution lines so customers at the end of the line miles out are within acceptable limits. 125 volts is not unheard of for homes near a substation.

As distribution lines and wiring within the home gets loaded down during peak demand, voltage can dip down to 115 volts, then creep back up to 125 volts as things are switched off.

This variant is normal and will not harm any electronics.


Spikes, which are technically called either voltage transients or voltage swells essentially can not occur unless some very adverse condition is taking place. Day to day activities like switching on appliances or light bulbs will not cause them.



I think what you are thinking of are themro dynamic related aspects- circuit boards may expand slightly as they heat up; then contract as they cool off. With failures most often making themselves known this change is taking place. This is different from anything going on with the voltage or current at the outlet.


Post# 1159363 , Reply# 19   9/12/2022 at 01:26 by tolivac (greenville nc)        

Incandescent light bulbs have an internal fuse-one of the lead in wires that burn as the arc should form from a just opened filament.This is to protect the fixture if anything else.
Distribution transformer secondaries the center tap neutral is grounded inside the transformer case.So if a fault from a shorted sec winding,primay winding short to the secondary-the primary transformer fuse would blow immediately.Linemen test the transformer before replacing the fuse.The voltage at the customer is mostly adjusted at the customers transformer-its primary taps.At work our line voltage is high--supposed to be nominal 4160V but is often over 4200V or even 4300V.The equipment here is designed to "take it"Out 208/120V is often 215,218V.The taps on the 4160V-208/120V can be adjusted at our transformer.500Kka 208/120V.There are two of these transformers on an auto chageover-like on a generator.So if one transformer fails-switches over to the other.These are dry transformers.The origianl were 3 167Kva Westinghouse oil filled(PCB).When these were replaced-2 failed--pretty good after 60+ years.Any of the old transformers were sent to a place in Georga and incinerated.They have an incinerator that can take on large transformers.All that would be left is the copper and iron that would be salvaged.Transformers from three older transmitters went thru that fate.Slowly oil filled transformers out here are being replaced with dry.


Post# 1159365 , Reply# 20   9/12/2022 at 02:15 by WindRivers (Wind River Range, WY)        
This variant is normal and will not harm any electronics.

Regardless of what's normal, electronic components do degrade over time. There are reasons why, and things that accelerate that degradation.

Respectfully, I don't think you understand what all those things are and what their full effect over time is. Especially as, again, you seem to be skirting the subject. We're, or at least I, am talking about the effects of constantly turning appliances on and off, you're talking about normal voltage fluctuations, and even they have to have some effect on the circuit, no matter how negligible it may be.

There are many things that are normal, whether mechanical or electrical, and that the products are made to withstand. That does not mean they have no effect on the wear and tear and life of the product.

So the question still stands as to whether continually unplugging appliances makes them last longer, but I'll probably get another lecture on power distribution systems and how it does or doesn't affect incandescent light bulbs.

To Eddie's point, not only do manuals I'm aware of not advise continually unplugging appliances, but if it was a thing, surely they would put on/off switches in a handy place instead of making you unplug them. (I'm almost afraid to mention that, some ignorant people might make easily accessible on/off switches another regulation. I guess I could at least live with that one.)


Post# 1159366 , Reply# 21   9/12/2022 at 02:35 by qsd-dan (West)        

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"So the question is, does unplugging appliances help make electronic boards last longer, or is it detrimental, or does it make no difference."

I don't think it's detrimental at all. If you live in an area that gets regular lighting storms or brownouts, then it's definitely a good idea. Obviously, you can't do this with a fridge or freezer. You will be replacing outlets at a much faster rate with all of the plugging/unplugging cycles. If you want to go into OCD mode, you could hook them up to a well made UPS with a pure sine wave inverter.



Post# 1159367 , Reply# 22   9/12/2022 at 02:42 by bradfordwhite (West Coast, U.S.)        

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Evidence this works?

When you call your cable company because you're having problems with your modem, what is something they are sure to suggest? "Can you please unplug it for at least 60 seconds?"
Sometimes they will suggest a total disconnect from the coax and power BECAUSE any type electric charge will maintain potential virus infections.

If you have problems with your cel phones, tablets, and other wifi devices, removing the battery and letting the device sit will often allow virus infections to be eliminated. I've experienced this several times.

Removing the battery on standard computers does a similar thing.

I purchased a $300 "NEW" but not charging smart phone for $60 in 2018. In original case and everything. It wouldn't recharge and thus wouldn't stay on.
I removed the battery for a half hour. That purged the virus that was keeping it from charging. I had to do that three times in a year and after that, never had the problem again.

On more than one occasion I've found electronic appliances that were giving off excess heat in the computer area and/or they were humming. The appliance itself was fine but the timer/computer, that was always energized, was wearing down and starting to overheat. Why? Because it had always been left ON.


I had a Whirlpool duet Sport washer I bought new. The timer started giving me problems about a year after I bought it.
I realized simply unplugging it reset it AND not leaving it plugged in when not in use solved the problem permanently.
Very simple.



Another ANALOG example. WHY do some people pine for those old appliances with analog timers?
Because they were/are reliable.

They may not have as many functions as an electronic timer but they usually work as needed, when needed.
And why do they work?
Because they are not running when the appliance isn't in use and thus don't wear out prematurely.
You turn the timer on, it turns on the small motor on the timer, it runs the cycle and then turns EVERYTHING on the appliance OFF when done.

An electronic timer doesn't do that. So what happens? They wear out or get infected and aren't reliable.  Typically cost $$$$ to replace.

How many times have we found a stove or wall oven with an analog or electronic clock. One of the problems: the clock no longer works.
Why should it if it's been running ALL THOSE YEARS.

If that analog or even digital clock had a toggle switch to turn it off when it wasn't going to be used for a timer or time baking it's probably fair to say it would still work WHEN IT's needed now.

On the flip side, what if we found that a washer, for example, with an analog timer was made so that timer motor ran ALL THE time and the on/off knob only turned off all the devices in the washer such as the motor,pump, water valve etc.
That timer motor was energized all the time. Do we really think that those old timers on these 50+ y.o. Maytags and others would still be working?

It's the same difference with electronic timers.

----

Is it my or your fault that electronic dishwashers, washing machine, microwave ovens, computers, and other ELECTRONIC appliances don't have a HARDWIRED 120 volt ON/OFF switch installed?

 


Nope. Appliance manufacturers will cut corners where they can even if it means not installing a simple $1 toggle switch that would allow consumers to make a hard break of the 120 volt AC current to the machine.

 

And if a manufacturer can program in cheap electronic timers so customers have problems....you know the game.


No one in a group like this has any legit reason for not purchasing a few of these toggle switches and installing them in said appliance
AND
getting in the habit of simply cutting the power to those appliances when they are not doing their jobs.

 

It's also nice to know your electronics are protected from power surges, brown outs, black outs, and lightning strikes.

Another solution for things like electronic timered appliances like water softeners, lawn sprinkler timers, and modems is to install a simple $5 plug in lamp timer on the power plug and turn the power off when you know the appliance won't be running. Turn it off for at least a half an hour at say 3AM everyday. Most of these appliances have memory and will remember commands for several hours.


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Post# 1159368 , Reply# 23   9/12/2022 at 02:58 by bradfordwhite (West Coast, U.S.)        
#21

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A refrigerator with an electronic timer: one can simply install an appliance timer at the plug.

  

Program it to turn off for 15 to 30 minutes in the middle of the night when no one will be opening the door.  That period of time is not enough to affect the temperature.


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Post# 1159369 , Reply# 24   9/12/2022 at 03:15 by bradfordwhite (West Coast, U.S.)        
Other proof

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Cel phones were/are going through a trend of trying to make the battery difficult or impossible to remove.

 

Why?

 

In the now struggling and saturated cel phone market, this was a stupid decision, and just gives another reason not to "upgrade".

 

Not only will it make these devices more difficult to recycle, it's going to frustrate consumers who want/need to do a quick battery swap.

 

So why do it?  I think its probably because they know they can program in simple viruses that are easily removed by de-energizing (removing the battery) and thus people would be more inclined to buy new when they're having a problem. 

It's also because the policing agencies have installed tracking devices in phones that, when de-energized, stop working. 

 

I WON'T be buying a product without a removable battery or that can't be modified to get access to said battery. 



CLICK HERE TO GO TO bradfordwhite's LINK

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Post# 1159370 , Reply# 25   9/12/2022 at 03:56 by WindRivers (Wind River Range, WY)        

I think there is an argument to be made for unplugging for areas with frequent severe storms and/or unreliable electric grids, which seems to be coming more common in poorly run states. I believe it is better to have controlled shutdowns than frequent brownouts, dropouts, and outages.

I do completely shut down my computer and modem/router at least once a week, which may at least be partly a hangover from my Windows days.

I haven't had any equipment lock up for I don't know how long, definitely not enough to unplug everything every day. I won't comment on the assertion that unplugging cures or prevents viruses other than I still get the idea there's some lack of understanding of electronics and electronic components.


Post# 1159381 , Reply# 26   9/12/2022 at 10:49 by chetlaham (United States)        

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If a storm is coming by all means unplug valuable or expensive appliances. A direct lightning hit will go through anything and everything, including a few millimeters of air in an open toggle switch.


But other than that I'm not skirting as IMO there is absolutely nothing to worry about.


To answer your question I would say that unplugging appliances is more likely to lead to premature failures as components like resistors, transformers, transistors, solider joints, heat up when powered in a circuit and cool down when not. The constant heating and cooling cycle leads to stress, fatigue and eventual failure.


If you don't believe me look at the discoloration sometimes found around surface mount components. Measure the temps of discrete components on a microwave clock circuit board after its been plugged in for several hours vs when its been unplugged for a few hours. For example, the little 2 watt transformer will probably be painfully hot in 30 minutes. This is normal, most components are economized and run near there max power dissipation. Having them go through 24 hour thermal cycles for years on end just accelerates the degradation of said components.


But, I will be honest and give you my reasoning I use in my own home: What ever is gained (be it energy savings or longevity) by unplugging appliances is dwarfed by the risk of fire. Plugs and outlets, in particular 50 cent residential grade receptacles, lose the ability to hold plugs rather quickly when routinely subjected to inserting and removing cord caps. This leads to poor electrical contact where eventually a high resistance connection forms. High resistance creates heat (aka joule heating) and heat makes fire. Any service electrician can tell you of all the day to day service calls replacing melty or burned receptacles. The thing is, most folks don't replace the the cord cap(s) that were mating while the outlet was getting hot. So the oxides that for formed on the blades of the cord cap leads to overheating in the new outlet creating a revolving door of melty outlets.


(I do make an exception for things like irons, where I changed the outlet at the ironing board to an industrial or hospital grade version that can hold up routine plugging and unplugging) Other than that just plug it in and forget about it.


Just my 2 cents :)


Post# 1159385 , Reply# 27   9/12/2022 at 12:38 by ryner1988 (Indianapolis)        
Reply #22

@bradfordwhite, don't some higher end electronics automatically power everything down when not in use for several minutes? I'm thinking of more advanced modern washers such as those made by LG that have a power button which turns on all the displays and such. I'm not talking about the cheap electro-rotary controls on BOL modern washers like the VMW Whirlpools. I had one and I can tell you that you are right, that thing was charged up all the time. The lid lock would engage if the lid was closed and I turned off the bathroom light. The washer was presumably off but something was obviously still running.

Post# 1159386 , Reply# 28   9/12/2022 at 12:49 by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.)        
Re: Reply#27

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My ďcheapĒ BOL Roper VMW washer has a ďstartĒ button that powers it on. Iíve never had the lid lock on its own with the machine off.

In three years of owning and using it I have twice needed to unplug it to reset the electronic control board and this hasnít been a problem at all.

Iím not a complete Luddite. I actually do like the electronic control board on my new GE electric range. But Iíd be just as pleased with analog controls and an automatic oven function controlled by a clock as opposed to the electronic control board. Time will tell whether or no this electronic control board will have a long service life, i hope that it does.

Eddie


Post# 1159387 , Reply# 29   9/12/2022 at 13:04 by DADoES (TX,†U.S. of A.)        

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Electronic controls are always powered to an extent in sleep-mode unless the device of question has a mechanical "hard" power-off switch that disconnects current to the main board.† There's no other way the device can instantly wake-up to full function when a knob is turned, a membrane button is pressed, or a capacitive-touchpad is tickled.


Post# 1159388 , Reply# 30   9/12/2022 at 13:17 by bradfordwhite (West Coast, U.S.)        

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Example of an electronic appliance with a hard wired disconnect.
Oster Kitchen center from around 1982


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Post# 1159389 , Reply# 31   9/12/2022 at 13:30 by bradfordwhite (West Coast, U.S.)        
#29

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"sleep-mode" just means the main appliance components aren't running and power to the LED screen is off.
The main computer is still ON, using electric, and susceptible to damages.

My much liked electronic air conditioner controller is always on even though the LED is off. Even when the screen is dark it still gives off a bit of heat and when you plug it in, it makes a beep sound.

Whenever I plug in my electronic Air Fry oven it beeps but there is no lights on the LED screen.

Some computers, when first plugging them in, the power lights will flash briefly but the computer won't come on until you push the power button.

--------

For whoever stated that powering up an electronic timer/controller is enough to cause it to fail- NO.
If that happened it's because the piece was already damaged, probably from being left in the ON position for too long.


Post# 1159390 , Reply# 32   9/12/2022 at 13:42 by ryner1988 (Indianapolis)        
Reply #28

Eddie,

For me, that strangeness with the lid lock usually happened when the machine would finish a load, the lid had unlocked but I hadn't yet opened the lid to remove the laundry. Someone would turn the bathroom light off at this point, and sometimes the lid would relock. Was kind of a PITA to get it back open.

Aside from this, I will say the machine gave me very few issues until it died a few months ago. Didn't much care for the sound of it, but apparently that's an irritation unique to me as others don't seem to have the problem. Or maybe I just had a particularly noisy machine.

Ryne


Post# 1159464 , Reply# 33   9/13/2022 at 11:26 by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)        

kb0nes's profile picture
I can't imagine settling for the mediocrity of a simple mechanical timer today. Giving up the advantages of sensors and control capability based on some notion that they will last longer seems short sighted. I'll take the electronic controls over a timer for longevity today anytime. My electronic Kitchenaid DW is at least 25 years old now and that control works perfectly as it always has.

As for unplugging electronics or gosh powering off a cell phone daily (??!!), that is the best chuckle I've had today. I've owned 4 cell phones total since 1998 and never turned off a one of them! Never a failure on any of them... They don't need to rest

Surges are blamed for scads of electronics failures, but really seldom ever cause any damage. Put a whole house impulse suppressor in the service panel and don't worry about it anymore.


Post# 1159486 , Reply# 34   9/13/2022 at 18:27 by Good-Shepherd (New Jersey)        
and just gives another reason not to "upgrade".

We are going to be forced to "upgrade" out cell phones before the end of the year.

Verizon is shutting off 3G service and I won't be able to use my excellent LG flip phone anymore.

Any suggestions for basic phones? All the Verizon offerings have horrible reviews.


Post# 1159491 , Reply# 35   9/13/2022 at 18:46 by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.)        
Douglas,

ea56's profile picture
I had to upgrade my LG flip phone early this year because Tracfone, which is now owned by Verizon no longer uses the 3G network. I got an Alcatel Flip phone that uses the 4G network and I like it just fine. My husband had to do the same thing two months ago, and he went with the same Alcatel flip phone as I did.

Eddie


CLICK HERE TO GO TO ea56's LINK


Post# 1159496 , Reply# 36   9/13/2022 at 19:05 by bradfordwhite (West Coast, U.S.)        
#34

bradfordwhite's profile picture
My AT&T LG B470 I paid $20 for at Walmart in 2016 has been a super trooper all this time. Never had a problem. It worked on both ATT and T-Mobile.

Earlier this year ATT shut down their 3G so it no longer will work with ATT. I had already upgraded to a smart phone about a year earlier and so glad I did but I kept the phone for texting only and still have it on T-Mobile. Found out that in Oct They will be shutting their 3G network. ;-(...

That's progress.



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Post# 1159497 , Reply# 37   9/13/2022 at 19:06 by WindRivers (Wind River Range, WY)        
Basic Cell Phone

Just like you want washers and dryers with the old traditional mechanical controls, you want cell phones with the the old traditional rotary pulse dialers, like the Bell System Princess phones that came out in 1959. I think the Princess phones were extremely durable, I don't recall one ever breaking down in normal use.

But then, what do I know? I'm the last Luddite left in the world without a cellphone, so take my advice for what it's worth. My answer just seems to fit with the subject on this thread.


Post# 1159504 , Reply# 38   9/13/2022 at 19:40 by ea56 (Cotati, Calif.)        
Jeff

ea56's profile picture
I hardly ever use my Tracfone. Iíve had a Tracfone since 2002 and I have over 7000 mins of airtime. I just take it with me when I leave the home for a walk or to drive somewhere, since there arenít pay phones around in most places now. I only use it for emergencies or when I need to text for some business or medical need.

I guess that makes me a semi-Luddite, LOL! My Tracfone Flip phone has internet capability, but I donít use it.

Whatís good about Tracfone is no monthly bill. I just buy a 1 year airtime and service card every year, and as long as my service stays active the airtime mins accumulate and are retained. I maybe make 10 calls a year on it, if that. Before I had unlimited long distance on my home phone I made all my long distance calls on the Tracfone, and even at that I never needed to add any mins between my annual card renewal.

Eddie




This post was last edited 09/13/2022 at 20:38
Post# 1159505 , Reply# 39   9/13/2022 at 19:41 by WindRivers (Wind River Range, WY)        

I guess the only thing about Ma Bell Princess phones is that they generally weren't that easy to just unplug each night to give them a rest.

Post# 1159507 , Reply# 40   9/13/2022 at 19:48 by WindRivers (Wind River Range, WY)        
Thanks Eddie

I keep thinking that I should look into Tracfones or such.

I know I'm not always real wise going up in the mountains to cut firewood and such without letting anyone know when and where I'm going. I should figure out how much coverage those things have around where I go.

Thanks for the suggestion, sounds like a good idea.


Post# 1159512 , Reply# 41   9/13/2022 at 20:34 by bradfordwhite (West Coast, U.S.)        
Wow

bradfordwhite's profile picture
It's like we've approached the real life Grizzly Adams.

Never dealt with cel phones. Doesn't know that AT&T hasn't wired phones direct since the 60s given the modular plugs. Cuts wood "in the mountains". Doesn't realize a Princess phone is not electronic and thus doesn't need to be disconnected.

The Life and Times of Grizzly Adams





Yet you've managed to meander to a computer randomly found under a brush pile, found this website, and you know what a Princess phone is. hmmmmmmm.
Are you still wanted by the law?
Oh, the DRAMA!





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Post# 1159521 , Reply# 42   9/13/2022 at 21:30 by WindRivers (Wind River Range, WY)        
bradfordwhite

I see you have a sense of humor also, lol.

You caught me, I actually was confused as to what a Princess phone was, I think it was actually the Model 500 which came out earlier than the Princess that I was thinking of. Thanks for straightening me out on that, though I think they were both very similar and dependable phones.

The thing is, as I recall, all those phones had transformers that were constantly energized, yet didn't seem to wear down. The idea that I got from your above posts is that even things that aren't electronic need to have power disconnected to give them a rest.

I think some of the confusion may be that you refer to things such as analog clocks that are always running and compare them to electronics. The thing there may be the conflation of mechanical wear with electronic degradation.



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Post# 1159532 , Reply# 43   9/13/2022 at 23:46 by Good-Shepherd (New Jersey)        

I'm really pissed about not being able to use my LG flip phone in a few months, years of rock solid reliability, palm size, one hand operation just by feel of the keypad. The pinnacle of flip phones IMO.

I would be okay with a smart phone if it wasn't a surveillance device that also makes phone calls and text.


Post# 1159575 , Reply# 44   9/14/2022 at 22:05 by Miele4life (Reading, UK )        

in the UK, mechanical timer tumble dryers from Hotpoint and Indesit are still being made and they got an update last year, available as vented or condenser models from both brands.


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