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Thread Number: 91682
/ Tag: Wringer Washers
New To Me Kenmore Tabletop Washer |
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Post# 1161941 10/18/2022 at 16:30 (549 days old) by Launderess  (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Added a Kenmore (rebadged Whirlpool) Junior washer to my table top machine collection.
Plugged unit in, switched on and it at once began bellowing white smoke from bottom. Switched off, opened windows and turned on fans to air place out, then after a bit investigated. Seller packed washer on it's side, and motor is totally covered in oil. Am assuming this came from gearbox/case, but never the less.... Am quite pushed this week busy wise, so don't have time to investigate further. Happily seller did include copy of operating instructions and parts list (Xerox copied lifted from somewhere and printed on reverse side of used paper) which has diagrams . Methinks will have to take thing apart, clean out gearcase, fill with new oil or grease, then sort out motor. Hopefully a new one can be found if current cannot be salvaged. Cord like many other old washers has covering that is cracking or cracked in areas, it should go with a new one that has a three prong grounded plug attached fitted. So that's me for you..... This post was last edited 10/18/2022 at 17:38 | ||
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| Post# 1161951 , Reply# 1 10/18/2022 at 17:48 (549 days old) by bellalaundry (St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada) | ||
Adorable! | ||
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Post# 1161958 , Reply# 2 10/18/2022 at 20:04 (549 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Post# 1161964 , Reply# 3 10/18/2022 at 20:41 (549 days old) by wayupnorth (On a lake between Bangor and Bar Harbor, Maine) |
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Post# 1161972 , Reply# 4 10/18/2022 at 23:49 (549 days old) by tolivac (greenville nc) |
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The machine looks too big to sit on a table or counter.Maybe show show other items in the picture so the "scale" size of the machine could be seen.And with it filled with water could be too heavy. | ||
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Post# 1161974 , Reply# 5 10/19/2022 at 00:48 (549 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Right then!
Tipped washer on side and began mopping up gear oil that leaded during transport. Got much as possible but would entail taking washer apart to get totally squeaky clean.
Waited several hours then tried to start washer again. Plugged in and when switched on machine moved a bit, but motor just hummed. Thankfully no huge out rush of smoke to that's one saving grace. Methinks something is jammed somewhere. Motor has power (hence humming and bit of jump when first started that once), but something is stopping it from transferring that power to gearbox and or agitator shaft. No belts on this washer, shaft off motor connects directly to gearcase box. Will need a special sort of wrench to get nut off that holds tub to base. With tub off everything comes out via top of washer. Best guess (and hope) is that after sitting for god only knows how many decades something is "stuck". "The machine looks too big to sit on a table or counter" It is big, easily the largest of 1940's "diaper washers" one has seen. Capacity wise according to manual can hold one full sheet and two pillow slips. That's more than recently acquired Monitor washer. | ||
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Post# 1161986 , Reply# 6 10/19/2022 at 08:42 (548 days old) by Maytagmike (Burlington, Vt) |
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Tabletop washer | ||
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Post# 1162047 , Reply# 7 10/20/2022 at 03:31 (548 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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When it rains it pours...
Literally!
Agitator shaft is sized up, won't turn by hand and or even with agitator off using a wrench. So thought maybe filling unit up with hot water and letting it sit a bit would help. Wrong! *LOL* There's me filling up this buggery bollocks washer and realized water level isn't rising. Darn thing leaked like a sieve with water going right onto pads placed beneath unit. Lowered drain hose to get out what water didn't leave other way, mopped up floor, then turned unit over. Sump connector for drain hose has rotted away. Hose itself seems fine. So now need to sort out some sort of new way of connecting drain hose to sump. Original connector had lip around one end (that faces inside washer), this holds it in place, and drain hose is fitted onto other side. Once get tub off can remove what's left of sump hose and see what there is. Hated order yet another one use tool, but needed special Whirlpool/Kenmore spanner wrench to get tub off. Will order from Amazon since need some other things, and they have cheapest price atm. Looked on fleaPay and cheapest there was same as Amazon (with free shipping) so not much of a difference. Am hoping motor isn't totally toast, and all that smoke was just burning off grease that leaked out during transit. It does hum when machine is powered on, but since nothing is happing quickly shut things down to prevent possible further damage. | ||
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Post# 1162048 , Reply# 8 10/20/2022 at 03:35 (548 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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"From the logo on the front, it has to be in the '48 rangeish. As my Kenmore is a '48 model and would be considered the Lady model, but they were not named then."
Sat sitting for hours last night going through back issues of Sears catalog and Christmas wish books going from 1942 through 1958; cannot find a single mention of this "Kenmore Jr." washer. Fact it has an aluminum inner tub tells me these units likely weren't produced period when WWII restrictions were in place. | ||
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Post# 1162052 , Reply# 9 10/20/2022 at 05:17 (547 days old) by Chestermikeuk (Rainhill *Home of the RailwayTrials* Merseyside,UK) |
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Kenmore Table Top  | ||
| Post# 1162055 , Reply# 10 10/20/2022 at 06:14 (547 days old) by vacerator (Macomb, Michigan) | ||
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I bet it can out-wash some full size modern washers. First American apartment size electric washer? | ||
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Post# 1162057 , Reply# 11 10/20/2022 at 06:31 (547 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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" First American apartment size electric washer?"
Ohh no, not by a long shot. Sears was offering table top washers early as 1941 or so. christmas.musetechnical.com/Show... | ||
| Post# 1162121 , Reply# 12 10/20/2022 at 18:39 (547 days old) by rpms (ontario canada) | ||
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Post# 1162130 , Reply# 13 10/20/2022 at 20:53 (547 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Compact whirl pool built wringer washer.
Neat find, I’ve seen several of these with the whirlpool name on them this is the first I’ve seen with a Kenmore name although I knew they made them.
Most likely the start winding in the motor has burned up take the motor out and see if it runs, you’ll probably need to either have it rewound or find a replacement motor. Don’t worry about the oil it lost, it won’t affect it although it sounds like it may be locked up anyway, you might try turning the entire machine upside down with the ringer off of it and see if the oil will run into the agitator shaft bearings maybe it will start running again. I don’t know how much point there is and taking this machine apart as there are virtually no parts available for it anywhere it was just too unusual and limited in production. Have to agree that it would’ve been the ultimate toy if I had gotten one of these when I was eight years old I might’ve grown up collecting wringer washers, even though I own a couple of them full-size models I really have no patience for manual laundry appliances it’s just so much more fun to watch an automatic do its job. John | ||
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Post# 1162136 , Reply# 14 10/20/2022 at 22:06 (547 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Thanks for all kind words lads!
Need all encouragement at this point can get...
John: Much like Whirlpool/Kenmore wringers of period this unit is designed so parts come up and out, rather than down via bottom Suppose could work around bottom brace, but there you are. Need to get tub off for a few purposes. One to sort out drain hose situation. Two, of course to get at gearcase and motor. As one or both obviously need attention. Turned unit over, plugged in and powered on for a moment. If left on too long thing starts puffing bits of white smoke, gets warm and hums. Am not sure if motor is reacting to being restricted somehow, or it's the windings or as John said problems starting. Either way won't know until get at motor and see what there is; worse comes to worse it will need replacing or sent out for rebuild. May reach out to Lorain Appliances or RedCarpetDrew since they have good backgrounds in vintage appliances. | ||
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Post# 1162168 , Reply# 15 10/21/2022 at 09:25 (546 days old) by KENMORE58 (Rhode Island) |
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Post# 1162172 , Reply# 16 10/21/2022 at 09:54 (546 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Message sent and received! *LOL* Will work out something about directions/owners manual, it's on my list of things that need doing.
First want to get washer sorted! Going by parts diagram transmission seems simple enough. Motor coupling transfers power to a worm gear which in turn drives agitator. Simple enough I suppose. Looking at parts diagram there are bits called "Agitator Shaft Water Shed". From one's limited knowledge such things were designed to cope with water that made it past tub seal. Am strongly suspecting water somehow did get into gearbox, and washer having been left sat sitting for god only knows how long something has seized up. www.smokstak.com/forum/th... Cannot think of another reason why agitator shaft itself won't budge. Won't know until Whirlpool/Kenmore wrench arrives so can remove tub nut and see what there is underneath. Took look at motor and it's a Delco/General Motors 5047586, 1725 rpm, 20 amps, and either 1/2 or 1/15 HP, couldn't make it out clearly. | ||
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Post# 1162227 , Reply# 17 10/22/2022 at 01:32 (546 days old) by thomasortega (El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora de Los Angeles de Porciúncula) |
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I have the same washer, but whirlpool. Ive heard there was a drain pump for them, but ive never seen in real life or images. Mine is missing the lid. If somebody has one, id appreciate. | ||
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Post# 1162229 , Reply# 18 10/22/2022 at 03:07 (546 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Only images found so far of Whirlpool mini washer with wringer.
This was a nice unit, but not sure if one would pay nearly $700 USD. That number has to be an error. This unit has a pump. On mine you can see where space for lever that operates same is empty. Because there is a pump drain hose has hook affixed at end for use with sink or tub. schneiderauctioneers.hibid.com/l... This post was last edited 10/22/2022 at 03:30 | ||
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Post# 1162230 , Reply# 19 10/22/2022 at 03:11 (546 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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From this image of underneath can see what am up against.
Tub must come up and off to get at motor, gearcase, etc...
View Full Size
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Post# 1162244 , Reply# 20 10/22/2022 at 10:08 (545 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Servicing a compact whirlpool wringer washer
It looks like to me the motor in the water pump should be service from the bottom, if you take the entire inner tub out you should be able to lift the whole mechanism out and service it outside the machine also.
These are not easy things to fix, what does the nut look like that you need to remove under the agitator? If you could find an old time motor shop they may be able to rewind that motor that burned out, otherwise it would be hard to find I’m sure the 20 A that you found on it is not correct it should be somewhere around 4 amps. John L | ||
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Post# 1162254 , Reply# 21 10/22/2022 at 11:44 (545 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Easy or not one has to have a go; otherwise have just spent good money for large and heavy white porcelain doorstop.
Tub nut am hoping is standard for WP washers of the time, and that Supco TB123A wrench will work Instead of this: www.amazon.com/Whirlpool-... Nut has four points like a star. Am not going to go crazy because am flying blind. Was leafing through copy of Whirlpool wringer washer tech/service manual, and interestingly this washer as somewhat similar worm gear transmission. If can get tub off will be a bit easier to see what exactly is going on. That is trying to trace from motor coupling through worm gear to see if can find what has caused agitator to seize up. As for motor am truly hoping it is just over heating because agitator is seized, but will see what happens on that front. Cannot believe this washer saw so much use that motor is kaput. FWIU Delco motors from back then were built to last. It is rather remarkable how little there is out there about these washers. As both Whirlpool and Kenmore it seems they are rare as hen's teeth. | ||
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Post# 1162264 , Reply# 22 10/22/2022 at 14:02 (545 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Possible motor winding failure
This is not an uncommon thing for the insulation on the start winding to fail especially on a 1948 washing machine that may have sat in a damp place for a period of time.
Delco motors were indeed one of the best in their day but nothing last forever. I am guessing these compact wringer washers were only made for a couple of years right after World War II Almost all major appliances in this time. Could be very difficult to repair today it is much easier to repair modern appliances. John L | ||
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Post# 1162301 , Reply# 23 10/22/2022 at 22:52 (545 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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More snaps
Because who doesn't like more pictures? *LOL*
Tub shots show tub nut which is different than current WP/Kenmore washers use. Still am hoping Supco spanner wrench will work. Otherwise tub seems remarkably clean inside. No traces of scum or much, just few spots where aluminum was nicked possibly by buttons, snaps or other clothing closures. This or lady of the house took care of her appliances, that is as with all wringer washers or laundry tubs thing was washed out and dried after each use. Underneath can see motor, gearcase, hose and damaged hose to tub connection. Had twinge of an idea; instead of snipping what's left holding tub to hose, why not reach for one of my favorite products; Seal All or maybe another sort of epoxy. Will have to have a think... Thanks to better lighting and looking more closely can see Delco motor is 2.0 amps, not 20. Phew that's a load off my mind. *LOL* | ||
| Post# 1162302 , Reply# 24 10/22/2022 at 23:24 (545 days old) by qsd-dan (West) | ||
Easy or not one has to have a go
That's the spirit, some of my most difficult attempts into the unknown eventually became the most rewarding. One won't continue the path of learning and growing without stepping out the of the comfort zone. You'll get it fixed up and running, no doubt about it!
You may want to soak the threads of the nut with penetrating oil for several days straight. That nut could have either right or left handed threads, so keep that in mind while pounding away. | ||
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Post# 1162309 , Reply# 25 10/23/2022 at 06:00 (544 days old) by ozzie908 (Lincoln UK) |
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@launderess just a thought.... | ||
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Post# 1162360 , Reply# 26 10/23/2022 at 23:25 (544 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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@ozzie908
With aid of vise grip pliers motor shaft does turn. After doing that for a bit, then plugging in and powering up washer, shaft makes bit of turn, then stops. Working theory going forward is that this motor is shot. Nothing could make much smoke as it did upon initial trail start up and be in good nick. While having a go at motor shaft (with machine upside down) looked at and had a think about getting motor out. It does seem possible doing so from bottom. There are only two nuts/bolts attaching motor to frame, and they're accessible either way. Hose connection is damaged anyway to its coming out for duration until sorted, so there will be more room. Switch box will need to be opened to free motor connections as well. First worry is getting agitator/transmission free. Without that bit working a working motor is useless. Actually happen to have a very good old Delco appliance motor. It's been sitting about spare since salvaged from a Frigidaire ironer that went to the tip. Sadly the thing is too big for use in washer. | ||
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Post# 1162365 , Reply# 27 10/24/2022 at 02:59 (544 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Sears Christmas Wishbook 1948
Found it!
Sadly print on page isn't legible as much of it is overwritten with white gibberish print. Likely something to do with copyright. www.wishbookweb.com/FB/1948_Sears... This little washer cost about $47 in 1948 (going into 1949). That equals $578.84 in today's money adjusted for inflation. Funny thing; Kenmore "Junior" washer only appears in 1948 Sears Christmas Wishbook. It isn't in main fall/winter catalog for that year. Nor is it in 1949 spring/summer. Can sort of see why; Sears wanted almost $50 bucks for a small washing machine. For about $40 more one could have an entry level full sized wringer washer. Ok, it was wartime and money was tight, but Sears did have those generous finance plans.... christmas.musetechnical.com/Show... christmas.musetechnical.com/Show... | ||
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Post# 1165223 , Reply# 28 11/30/2022 at 12:46 (506 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Bit of an update
Having let this washer sit sitting for several weeks while got on with life decided to see what there was.
Before laying it up had applied bit of Zoom oil to shaft on motor for want of getting the thing out to free things up a bit. Plugged washer in, flipped switch and shaft began turning quite freely. Turned washer right side up, repeated same and can see faint movement of agitator shaft (actual agitator removed). Goes bit one way then reverses to other, lather rinse and repeat... From limited test can see things are loosening up which is a good thing. Bad is motor still smokes like Dot Cotton. It also becomes quite warm after running for a bit. As couldn't abide stench of smoke shut washer off thus ending limited testing. At first thought start windings had gone which was causing motor to hum and and shaft not do anything. Now that shaft does move while start windings may (or may not) be an issue, obviously something else is causing all that smoke If as one assumed from start somehow transmission oil got into motor during transit am thinking that may be culprit. Either way one has one last card to play; take thing out of doors where it can smoke to its heart content and let it run. Want to see if washer is allowed to go for a bit will it work loose transmission. Thing has been sat sitting for how many decades before sold onto one, so it wouldn't be surprising if something might be "gummed up" as it were. Have almost nothing to lose at this point since am pretty much writing off this motor. Am searching for another but so far all are too big. Current motor is only about 6" long. | ||
| Post# 1165227 , Reply# 29 11/30/2022 at 13:03 (506 days old) by qsd-dan (West) | ||
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Post# 1165229 , Reply# 30 11/30/2022 at 13:08 (506 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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No, not yet.
Was going to take out motor several weeks ago in aid of taking it apart, cleaning contacts etc... but didn't have proper wrench for job. Much as one hated to do it needed to buy yet another tool which will add to the rather large number one already has bought for a one off project. You know, things that are used the once then sit sitting ever since. Happily spied a Craftsman wrench set on fleaPay going for very little money so that's me for you. | ||
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Post# 1165556 , Reply# 31 12/4/2022 at 09:30 (502 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Filed Under You Never Know What You Can Do Until You Try... | ||
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Post# 1174431 , Reply# 32 3/11/2023 at 17:57 (405 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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*Update*
Haven't done much with unit but as it has been sitting there haunting me decided bit by bit to dive in.
In end had to remove drain funnel/hose bit as it was simply too far gone for patching in situ. Using Krazy glue and Permatex silicone adhesive/sealant was able to patch, rebuild and otherwise put part back together. Thing was so far gone that it just leaked like a sieve and was worried about water getting to motor. Original drain hose was totally past it. What wasn't cracked was split open; not worth bothering patching as would be like sticking fingers in a leaking dike. Nabbed a dw hose off fleaPay with proper elbow connection and with aid of hose joiner and two clamps things are sorted. Several days of water testing and finding leaks meant bit more work, but as of now old girl is water tight. Am going to do a test load later this weekend to see what there is. Will say this after moving this washer about several times a day for past week or so it isn't exactly light nor easily portable IMHO. | ||
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Post# 1174443 , Reply# 33 3/11/2023 at 18:45 (405 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.) |
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Post# 1174444 , Reply# 34 3/11/2023 at 19:27 (405 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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Oh and power cord was shot as well.
Rubber covering was cracked or cracking in spots exposing insulation. Not good at all.
Inner part of cord (under tub) was wrapped in 3M electrical tape, then covered with silicone adhesive/sealant. Balance of cord was wrapped with same 3M tape so that was that. Considered replacing cord but don't have another spare and am that tired of spending money on this washer. *LOL* Had considered using liquid rubber/silicone to go over cord, but again am that tired of spending money. Have a job lot of 3M tape nabbed off fleaPay years ago that wants using up. There there is that tube of silicone adhesive/sealant that needs to be used as well. Was warned off buying a bottle of "liquid rubber" as most products don't store well. In a few months after opening what's left in container often turns hard. That bit of information put one off as have enough products or tools purchased for one off repairs that have sat sitting ever since. Where one sees all three of these table top washers fitting into one's wash day use is when have small loads of a few things or just the one. Miele washer is really only happy when loaded at or near full capacity. Small loads then to make her vibrate during spin and or drum go bang bang. Not good. The two AEG washers cope better with small loads, but take ages to get things done and often one just doesn't have that kind of time. | ||
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Post# 1174486 , Reply# 35 3/12/2023 at 09:39 (404 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md) |
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Power cord for table, top washer | ||
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Post# 1174538 , Reply# 36 3/12/2023 at 18:45 (404 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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@combo52
Thank you for kind and generous offer, will keep you in mind. Like yourself have many power cords lying about spare from appliances that were rubbished. Then there is a supply of 12/3 cord, wire stripper, terminals and clamp device for securing same to wires. Oh yes plugs, lots of plugs. *LOL* Had thought about replacing cord when unit arrived with what one assumed was dead motor. Figured while had it out would rewire with new grounded cord and be done. When finally got motor running those plans went on back burner. Motor has its own cord leading to junction/switch box. Power cord to outlet is separate and wired into same. Thus (if one understands things correctly) for grounded cord to be of any use would mean going back to Plan A, removing motor to swap out cord and find something inside to attach ground, then rewire things at junction box again to accommodate ground. Idea of the thing just left one exhausted. *LOL* Am fully aware this washer should be grounded and will take necessary precautions. But quite frankly want to see just how much use we give the thing before going through bother of taking out motor and so on. | ||
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Post# 1177743 , Reply# 37 4/10/2023 at 02:08 (376 days old) by Launderess (Quiet Please, There´s a Lady on Stage) |
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First Wash!
Having not bothered with this Kenmore table top washer in weeks since last repair work thought it was time for a maiden wash.
This is neither a light nor exactly compact washer. Wouldn't fit on kitchen counter top so just put thing in bath tub. First load was socks one wears around the house. While filling washer with lukewarm water (pre-wash) noticed drips coming from underneath unit. Wasn't going to stop and figured things are what they are. Will have to tip thing upside down again later to check new hose connections or otherwise see what there is... After several minutes stopped washer and put socks through wringer. This mangle doesn't adjust but left socks extracted enough they didn't drip water. Drained pre-wash water and began filling with hot for main wash. Added a bit of detergent (vintage Persil 59), put socks back into machine, turned things on and set nearby timer for 12 minutes. Wash action is what one would expect from a "Whirlpool" washer of period. That famous surging Whirlpool action created pretty good roll over. Water became progressively darker indicating dirt was being shifted out of socks. Noticed that where machine had leaked before that now seemed to stop. Don't know if hot (ok, this time of year quite hot as boilers are firing for steam heat), water caused things to set or what, but that was a nice bonus. Will still have a look underneath to see if hose connections need sorting. Long story short washed, wrung out, drained washer and filled with fresh cold water for rinse. After that was done wrung out socks for last time and must say results were pretty good. About what one would expect from a full sized Whirlpool washer. Next up were several pillow slips (five seems about all this washer can handle) and again things went well. Though didn't bother using mangle this time. Just lifted things out of water, hand wrung and put in bucket. This was faster than folding things to fit width of small wringer. | ||
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