Thread Number: 91889
/ Tag: Other Home Products or Autos
Another water heater failure! 6 years |
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Post# 1164167   11/18/2022 at 01:02 (523 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)   |   | |
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The gas water heater that was in this house when I bought it lasted around 20 years. The next one GE Smartwater (made by Rheem) lasted 10 years. The next one (Rheem) had a 6 year warranty and lasted 6 years 2 months. All of these had tank failure. I spent another $130 and got one with 9 year warranty. Same brand from HD...Rheem. I have no complaints about the performance. They've all given me wonderful hot water. I know it's the water softener causing the tanks to fail. I don't want to void my warranty on this one but in a couple of years I'm going to install one of those powered anodes and give it a try. I already have one that I was going to install in the just replaced water heater but it conked out before I could get to it. Today I'm going to pull the anode out of the old one and see just how much is left. All total for new heater and some misc fittings and a new gas connector was $818.99 with the heater being $709 itself. I started to change to AO Smith from Lowes since my parents first gas water heater was that brand, installed in 1989, and lasted almost 30 years! But they don't have a softener. I've seen a few videos of AO Smith water heaters not firing due to the air intake under the bottom getting clogged with lint and dust and must have the burner removed and then be blown out with compressed air. I have 4 cats and the heater is in the closet beside my washer so it's not easy to get to. The Rheem's have air intakes around the sides at the bottom and also have a filter inside. I can take the long wands of my Kirby and reach back there to vacuum the side holes easier than the bottom of an AO Smith. Bradford Whites are supposed to be the Cadillac of water heaters, or so I've read, but they have to be professionally installed. I'm not paying someone to do something I can do myself easily.
Funny, I've been "watching" the drain pan lately. There was no water in it last week. Today it was half full. So off I went to HD. Now it's installed and already hot. This 9 year model has a more powerful burner. I sure wish I could get one of those Monel heaters from way back when. It would last forever. Rant over. |
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Post# 1164194 , Reply# 1   11/18/2022 at 08:33 (522 days old) by qsd-dan (West)   |   | |
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Post# 1164197 , Reply# 2   11/18/2022 at 08:45 (522 days old) by philcobendixduo (San Jose)   |   | |
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.....is what my plumber always installs. I find that they last just about as long as the warranty does.
I have softened water and did not know that contributes to tank failure. My water heater is in the garage and I have never had to clean the intake filter or experienced failure to fire. My plumber tells me that the water heaters are all built the same - all one is paying additional money for is the length of the warranty. |
Post# 1164203 , Reply# 4   11/18/2022 at 09:25 (522 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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Marathon water heaters (made by Rheem) have a seamless blow-molded tank liner. CLICK HERE TO GO TO DADoES's LINK |
Post# 1164206 , Reply# 6   11/18/2022 at 11:15 (522 days old) by chachp (North Little Rock, AR)   |   | |
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Post# 1164207 , Reply# 7   11/18/2022 at 11:46 (522 days old) by qsd-dan (West)   |   | |
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Post# 1164208 , Reply# 8   11/18/2022 at 12:04 (522 days old) by Awooff (Peoria, Illinois)   |   | |
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Overly soft water is corrosive (wh anode rod). The trick is to have softner set just to the point of occasional spots on glasses from the dishwasher (w/o using rinse aid). This also prevents glass etching from progressing.
I had a brand new wh leak in about a year, of course warranty picked up but still had labor to pay. When my last wh blew, was just about to bed but took some leftovers to place in the freezer doenstairs - thankfully the wh had just started spraying within itself. Only had about 2 full shop vacs to dump. |
Post# 1164211 , Reply# 9   11/18/2022 at 13:27 (522 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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The water heater (30 gal) in this house is about 40 years old. I replaced the anode rod about five years ago. It was about 50% gone.
The water here is naturally reasonably soft (sierra mountain water) so no softener is needed.
The heater does tend to bump and grind while heating, which I assume is from debris at the bottom of the tank. But, no leaks. I drained it about five years ago, some debris. I guess they don't make them like that any more.
I have a spare 20 gallon heater just in case. A neighbor was selling his house and the realtor made him replace the water heater he'd installed about 7 years earlier. I've never hooked it up but I figure it would be fine in an emergency. I might scout around for a replacement 30 gallon before the California ban on gas powered heaters takes effect. |
Post# 1164214 , Reply# 10   11/18/2022 at 14:05 (522 days old) by jamiel (Detroit, Michigan and Palm Springs, CA)   |   | |
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Does anyone have any experience with heat pump water heaters? We just bought a condo in Palm Springs, CA with a 27 year old gas w/h on a riser in the garage (next to the washer/dryer). We could replace like-for-like, but I'm curious about using a heat pump w/h. Never had the guts to in Michigan (too cold tap water to be reasonable and don't need more cold in the basement), but the desert is a different story...warmer tap water, less need for temperature rise, seasonal use, etc.
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Post# 1164240 , Reply# 12   11/18/2022 at 18:55 (522 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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Well, as far as anode rods go, if you're handy and have a very big wrench, it shouldn't be too difficult to pull the anode rod yourself. I recommend getting a spare in advance just in case.
If more than 50% of the original is gone, I'd recommend replacing it.
Make sure the water heater is braced well before wrenching on it. The last thing you want is for the water and gas connections to be damaged. |
Post# 1164258 , Reply# 13   11/18/2022 at 20:43 (522 days old) by volsboy1 (East Tenn Smoky mountains )   |   | |
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Greg, you ever thought about a Gas tank-less? That's what Dad put in at the farm and its wonderful.Water heaters don't last at the farm because, the well water has sooo much mineral content in it.Its very clean water but, very different water almost tastes carbonated. My Dad got a Rinnai , I don't know much about them save for knowing I want one but I don't have gas at my place. I am getting a Tank-less electric when mine goes. There is only one size electric tank that fits in my place a Bosch 38 gallon and there $$$$ as hell. |
Post# 1164267 , Reply# 14   11/18/2022 at 22:21 (522 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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Tankless gas requires a large incoming gas line, a typical whole-house unit has a 200,000 BTU burner. Tankless electric likewise requires a large circuit, mine is on 120 amps ... 60 amp breaker x 2. So, replacing a tank with tankless typically requires other infrastructure upgrades, it isn't a simple, direct swap-out. |
Post# 1164279 , Reply# 15   11/19/2022 at 01:36 (521 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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Post# 1164280 , Reply# 16   11/19/2022 at 01:45 (521 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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@DaDoes: Yup, and typically the power company wants to know about it. Most pole transformers are already maximized (overloaded) taking advantage of the thermal inertia of the oil. 100 extra amps on a pole pig already being driven at 200-300% during peak periods can simply pop it.
Truth be, tankless water heaters aren't for everyone. I've heard of many cases where due to the unlimited hot water people take longer and longer showers which off set the savings. A long hot shower with music is very therapeutic from personal experience lol, some only realize this when the hot water never runs out. Also- if you loose power during a shower goodbye hot water. You don't have any way to finish up as you would with tanked heater. Even a sub second voltage dip from the utility could leave you without hot water for up to several minutes. Stick with a tank, IMO its the best overall. |
Post# 1164281 , Reply# 17   11/19/2022 at 03:25 (521 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)   |   | |
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Tankless water heaters are not maintenance free....www.waterheaterrescue.com...
My neighbor from Germany got one several years ago....she hated it and went back to a tank. Today I took my impact wrench and pulled the anode....it was gone! I don't know how often it needs to be checked. I've been thinking about turning the water softener back a little. It's on standard settings and only runs every 12 days for two people. |
Post# 1164292 , Reply# 18   11/19/2022 at 09:31 (521 days old) by qsd-dan (West)   |   | |
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Post# 1164298 , Reply# 19   11/19/2022 at 11:22 (521 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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I've had no problems with power regards to the electric tankless in the nearly 18 years here. The house was built with it. The pole-drop transformer serves me and one neighbor. I can't recall an instance of a power glitch during a shower. The Feb 2021 ice storm doesn't count. Power didn't fail except for the out-periods during the couple days of controlled rolling outages and I could have showered during the on-periods ... but I had no need to take a shower during the few days of that weather. There are days when I don't use any hot water so it doesn't exist within the structure of my house on those days, no power is expended to create it. Coincidentally, I checked the stats on the tankless during a shower a few days ago. 1.7 GPM flow, 101°F setpoint, running 22% of maximum heating capacity. |
Post# 1164329 , Reply# 20   11/19/2022 at 18:36 (521 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)   |   | |
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Post# 1164336 , Reply# 21   11/19/2022 at 19:54 (521 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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Having a water softener should not shorten the life of the water heater, in fact especially on a gas when it should greatly lengthen the life of it by not allowing heavy mineral buildup in the bottom of the tank.
Hi Greg, since you got such a short life out of the last water heater it would probably pay to check that anode in three or four years and replace it if it has significantly worn away. A gas water heater that rumbles and sounds like an old tea kettle when it’s heating should be replaced it’s going to fail fairly soon it’s all so much less efficient in operation. The hotter you run a gas water heater the shorter time it will last, ideally should not run it over 120°, anything over 140° for a home water heater system it’s just ridiculous it ruins everything in the house from hoses to the appliances etc. to say nothing of the severe scald danger to somebody just washing their hands even. John L |
Post# 1164338 , Reply# 22   11/19/2022 at 20:05 (521 days old) by goatfarmer (South Bend, home of Champions)   |   | |
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Post# 1164344 , Reply# 23   11/19/2022 at 20:26 (521 days old) by wayupnorth (On a lake between Bangor and Bar Harbor, Maine)   |   | |
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Post# 1164359 , Reply# 25   11/19/2022 at 21:57 (521 days old) by Dermacie (my forever home (Glenshaw, PA))   |   | |
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We have lived here since the house was built in 1968 and we are on our 5th water heater. 4 of the 5 have been Ruud. One of the Ruud lasted 18 years. We had one Bradford-white and it lasted 8 years. We did have expansion tank installed about 10 years ago. We have gas hot water and our current is a 40 gallon Ruud installed in 2016 🫣 |
Post# 1164361 , Reply# 26   11/19/2022 at 22:16 (521 days old) by MattL (Flushing, MI)   |   | |
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I've been getting 20+ years per tank on city water. Been awhile since I checked the anode rod, will do it soon. All tanks were TOL gas from Sears. |
Post# 1164362 , Reply# 27   11/19/2022 at 22:17 (521 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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@Dodes: Because your home was built with it, the power company has already done the math restricting your transformer down to two homes vs the typical 5-7.
I guess people with very reliable power can live with the probability, but me personally I'd hate for a car to hit a pole while I'm in the middle of a soapy shower. |
Post# 1164373 , Reply# 28   11/20/2022 at 05:24 (520 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)   |   | |
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I'll try to snap a pic of the anode today since the old tank is still at the curb awaiting the city to pick it up. The impact wrench was very loud but it made easy work of getting it out of an empty tank that would otherwise have just spun around while I was using a breaker bar.
I have one of these to install in a year or so www.corroprotec.com/power... Recommended on water softener sites. |
Post# 1164381 , Reply# 29   11/20/2022 at 10:21 (520 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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ChetLaham, the subdivision is outside the city limits, no city water/sewer, no natural gas service. My neighbor's house was one of the first two in the subdivision in 1982. My house was built in 2003/4 (I bought it in 2005), among the last three of the twelve total. I'm sure the transformer was changed at that time being that his house was the only one on the transformer on that pole for the previous 21 years. My lot at a front corner wasn't developed until the house was built and isn't part of the original land plat of the subdivision. All electric cooperatives in TX except one (which is not the one here) opted-out of the open retail market when that was established by deregulation. The local cooperative owns their transmission lines so no other retailer can supply power through those lines. There are a few areas around town that are dual-certified with two sets of transmission lines. Residents/businesses within the coop's single-certified areas have no choice for electric retailer unless they can convince another line provider/retailer to build service lines to the location. Mr. Neighbor worked for the coop for 44 years, ending as Manager of Engineering.
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Post# 1164387 , Reply# 30   11/20/2022 at 12:02 (520 days old) by polkanut (Wausau, WI )   |   | |
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We replaced the ancient electric water heater in our home in July of 1998 with a 40-gallon Ruud natural gas heater w/ a Power Vent. We bought the house in June of 1998. It has given flawless performance ever since.
The reason the electric water heater was replaced so soon was that it couldn't keep up with doing two loads of laundry back-to-back. The only time the gas heater has run out of hot water was my fault when I decided to wash a load of laundry, run the dishwasher, and take a shower all at the same time. This post was last edited 11/20/2022 at 16:28 |
Post# 1164388 , Reply# 31   11/20/2022 at 12:22 (520 days old) by DADoES (TX, U.S. of A.)   |   | |
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Accumulation of sediment in any tank water heater, of course, effectively reduces the usable capacity, being that the sediment takes up space that'd otherwise be occupied by heated water. This post was last edited 11/20/2022 at 12:42 |
Post# 1164445 , Reply# 32   11/20/2022 at 21:26 (520 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)   |   | |
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It's so weird to me that I've never lived in a house with anything GAS....Everything has been electric... Water heaters, dryers... And I've lived about 9 different locations in my life...
in 2004 when I moved into this brand new house... there was an AO Smith 50 gallon electric water heater...It lasted exactly 15 years with absolutely nothing being done to it aside from me raising the temp from 120 to 130 (which I'm not sure why I did that)... It started leaking in 2019 and PURE LUCK I caught it just as it started...Keep in mind we have no water softener and it's moderately hard city water.. I don't remember the water heater performing any differently from the 1st day to the last day as far as running out of hot water... The current heater is a 40 gallon AO Smith BOL (yes, bottom of the line).. We left the temp at default and it seems to work great...but in all honesty.. I'm not expecting anything made today to last as long as something made 15 years ago... I remember watching a video a couple of years ago... this popular appliance YouTuber did a video on "should you drain your water heater yearly?" He went into detail as to why it may be best to just leave them alone... I wish I could find the link but I can't. |
Post# 1164448 , Reply# 33   11/20/2022 at 22:58 (520 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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I found this little article tonight to be both informative and helpful.
Here is an excerpt, and the full link is below:
Is a Popping Water Heater Dangerous?How to flush the water heater tankTo prevent popping sounds and damage to the water heater and the surrounding areas, flush your tank. The process is elaborate, but after a few times, you should be a master. If there is ever a safety concern or if you do not have the DIY mindset, contact a professional plumber to inspect and flush out the tank.
To eliminate the possibility of a water heater explosion or concerning sounds coming from the unit, regularly flush the water heater tank every six months. Consider installing a salt-free water conditioner in your home to improve your water heater's efficiency and prevent sediment buildup.
CLICK HERE TO GO TO SudsMaster's LINK |
Post# 1164455 , Reply# 34   11/21/2022 at 04:57 (519 days old) by chetlaham (United States)   |   | |
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@DoDoes: Nice! Do you have a zoomed in pic of the front of the pole transformer? I'd eyeball this one at around 10 or 25kva.
Typically these units can carry 200-300% their loading for about an hour assuming the oil has enough time to cool off in between. Throughout most of the day homes draw 300 watts at most, sometimes going to 3,500 watts in the peak of summer or the cold of winter with the central AC or heat pump cycling. As people come or leave the home turning the stove, oven, toaster, water heater, dryer, ect the energy use can spike upwards of 10,800 watts for about an hour. For 5 average homes the math works out perfectly- wattage on the transformer bobbing down and up (remember that HVAC cycles) to 17,500 watts 21 hours a day, with peaks roughly 1 hour in duration every 6 hours hitting 54,000 watts. 6 hours in between of cyclic loading allows the oil to gradually cool down; while the oil absorbs heat preventing the core from overheating during peak periods. A surprise 5000-10,000+ watts can push things over the edge. While the unit may not fail immediately, the shortened life and dimming of lights eventually becomes noticed. I'm curious, have you ever recorded you're homes full electric profile? I've found such data intriguing. |
Post# 1164510 , Reply# 35   11/21/2022 at 22:49 (519 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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The water heater here might be a bit of a concern. I may have mentioned already that I've got a spare, from a neighbor that was moving and put it out on the street because the realtor told him he couldn't sell the home with a WH that was near end of life. It's a six year warranty, A 40 gal GE, but my understanding is that they are all basically the same, the warranty just covers a longer period but costs more.
In any case, I just went out an pulled the anode rod on the spare water heater. It's mostly intact, maybe slight wear on about 1/3 of its length. If and when I need to put this one into service, I have a couple of spare anode rods that should work just fine, so just in case I'll put one of those in. And yes, I'll flush the thing out. I got a narrow beam flashlight on the anode rod hole, and while there is some white (probably anode rod) stuff on the bottom it's minimal. So as long as it fires up and heats OK, should be good to go.
The attached link is a good source of info, and confirms my suspicions about water heater longevity, anode rods, etc. The water heater that come with this house 25 years ago is bumping a bit. I have wrapped it with a thermal blanket, so I can't easily view the details, but as I recall it's a Montgomery Ward brand. Who knows who made it? And it's probably a 40 gallon, not a 30 gallon. I'm planning on giving it a somewhat overdue drain session soon so we'll see if that helps with the noises.
CLICK HERE TO GO TO SudsMaster's LINK |
Post# 1164527 , Reply# 36   11/22/2022 at 06:00 (518 days old) by askolover (South of Nash Vegas, TN)   |   | |
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Post# 1164529 , Reply# 37   11/22/2022 at 06:36 (518 days old) by combo52 (50 Year Repair Tech Beltsville,Md)   |   | |
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From reply 33
Electric water heaters don’t start popping because there’s minerals in the bottom of them just really only applies to standard cast ones. Once a water heater starts popping in rumbling flushing will not remove cooked on minerals. Yes if you do the flushing it regularly it might help it keep from getting that way but you’re not gonna remove it without doing some heavy duty scraping etc. and then the chunks probably won’t drain out of the drain anyway. This is why it’s recommended to have a water softener if you have hard water. Water heaters do not explode from mineral buildup and they should not explode at all. I have read that it’s a good idea to replace gas water heaters fairly often because they lose efficiency because of the mineral buildup etc. Electric water heaters of course never lose efficiency at all, the only real danger is letting the minerals build up so deep that it covers the heating element and then the lower element will fail pretty quickly. John |
Post# 1165082 , Reply# 38   11/28/2022 at 17:08 (512 days old) by kb0nes (Burnsville, MN)   |   | |
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The Water Heater Rescue Forums are likely the best place for water heater information on the Internet.
waterheaterrescue.com/... Armed with the information on this site and with the use of a titanium wire powered anode vs a sacrificial anode, it is possible to extend the life of a standard water heater several times the typical life. |
Post# 1165117 , Reply# 39   11/28/2022 at 23:49 (512 days old) by qsd-dan (West)   |   | |
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Post# 1166458 , Reply# 40   12/13/2022 at 10:36 (497 days old) by ryner1988 (Indianapolis)   |   | |
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Also- if you loose power during a shower goodbye hot water.
We have a gas tankless water heater in our apartment, and this very thing happened to me a few weeks ago. Sucked bigtime because I had just finished soaping up so couldn't just say heck with it and jump out, had to go ahead rinse off. It was a cold day here too so that water was hella chilly. Also, I wonder about the efficiency of tankless WH and a washer with temperature regulation controlled by cycling the hot water on and off. My 2016 Whirlpool machine had this feature and the WH would kick on and off, on and off, over and over while the washer was filling. Not an issue with the older washer I now have, but in addition to loss in efficiency I can't imagine it was mechanically good for the WH to be doing that. Over all though I like my tankless WH. It suits perfectly well for two people in a small apartment because very rarely do I need to run more than one hot water function at once. |
Post# 1166610 , Reply# 41   12/15/2022 at 07:16 (495 days old) by mark_wpduet (Lexington KY)   |   | |
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with the exception of if you're really HOT and it's summer...so the cold isn't nearly as cold.... but did you know that COLD showers are actually good for you? There's this whole movement about it..giving reasons why hot showers are bad for you and cold showers are good for you... something about immunity or something. But there is NO way I could do it in the winter.. Not the frigid ice cold water that comes out...it's easier to start with the temp you usually like and turn it down slowly........
NOT that this has ANYTHING to do with the discussion... but cold showers are horrible to me. |
Post# 1166820 , Reply# 42   12/17/2022 at 03:33 (493 days old) by SudsMaster (SF Bay Area, California)   |   | |
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