With proper ventilation (AKA, a stove hood vented to the outdoors), gas stoves aren't the villainous appliances the electricity lobbyists are making them out to be.  Ideally, the exhaust fan in the hood should activate automatically whenever a burner is ignited.

Well, while the cooktop in the kitchen here is gas, the oven is an old GE P*7 electric that works pretty well. I do have an old Modern Maid gas range that I'm thinking of replacing the electric range in the patio kitchen with. The patio kitchen range area has a questionable hood ("Rangeair") above it which I've never been all that impressed with. I'm not worried about CO or other pollutants there because that patio kitchen is well ventilated 7x24. In the main kitchen the gas cooktop has an efficient Nutone hood above it. I will turn it on when I'm doing a lot of cooking. But lately not just for warming things up.

Anybody still using fuel oil to heat their homes? I remember when this was the standard.

It isn't the "electricity lobbyists" who want these dangerous appliances removed.   It's people concerned for their safety.

Gas NEVER should have been allowed in residential dwellings.  It serves a very limited number of uses and not all homes even have such toxic appliances.  As the need to replace infrastructure arises, how would one justify digging up all the streets just because some homes in a neighborhood have a furnace and perhaps a water heater that uses gas. 

Where as EVERYONE uses electric.   Most gas appliances won't even work without electric to power the controls. 

And when the cost to operate becomes more expensive than electric, people will quickly ditch the stinky dangerous gas appliances.

#10

"Range hoods should vent outside

It seemed like every house had a vent hood that actually vented OUTSIDE when I was young (70's/80's) whether the stove was electric or gas. "

Completely agree.  Add to that bath fans as well.  Can't imagine not having adequate ventilation in either room.  It doesn't cost much to install even the most basic bath or rangehood that's vented. 

In the bathroom there should be 2 vents: one 1 foot off the floor next to the toilet to quickly and directly vent out odors, and one very near to the tub/shower to vent out excess humidity.  Each with individual twist timer switches so they will shut off after a set amount of time to save energy.

#11 

Hydrogen is made with petroleum and it's a fallacy that it's some special product.  It's just the oil companies trying to sell another bad product.  Just like Nuclear industry is trying to stay relevant by pushing a narrative that nuclear is "safe" and "carbon neutral".   b.s.

I've only head of CO monitors.  Maybe not all areas require them yet.

IIRC this topic came up a few months ago here in the Super forum, and the responses today echo comments made then.

From my perspective, when families come to realize that they are potentially harming their young children by simply cooking on a gas cooktop each night, the societal shifts will start to swing in favor of converting to electric cooktops over gas. While we all are comfortable with our personal experiences and opinions, it will take concrete data to break through most barriers that will be thrown up, and sadly this is already becoming a partisan issue.  And the lack of current data across a wide sample just isn't there, outside the 30+ years this has been studied.  However, it won't stop some of us from throwing a monitor in our homes to see what our personal NO2 daily intake is.

What I don't foresee changing in the next several decades is the reliance on natural gas for winter heating above the Mason-Dixon line in the US.  Unless the cost of natural gas becomes egregious compared to eclectic heat, it won't happen.

twitter.com/curious_founder/stat...

Ben

"Again, send someone a check who has an all electric home

and you’ll dread it since it’ll be $500 or close to $1000."

What does that mean?

Laundress, there are certain areas in the U.S. that still have oil burners, mainly in the N.E.

I don't think coal is still a thing(?) It seems like most places have banned that due to the horrible soot, just as there are communities that have banned burning wood.  uggg.

What should/should have happen(ed) is there should be no wasted efforts bringing gas lines to peoples residence. 

It would be better to simply have a gas fired electric power plant in each city, and we have some already, and have people use all electric appliances. 

It would be a lot easier to bring (in theory) ONE gas line to a city to a power plant, have that power plant make electric for the homes where they could use it for heat and everything else. 

Again, there is already electric EVERYWHERE. 

Far simpler than digging up all the streets and putting in deteriorating gas lines.

What morons, in the 1950/60s when ever, DIDN'T think of this before?  God ridiculous.  This crap really angers me.

Most likely, the U.S. in our abundant wealth, Yes we are one of the RICHEST countries collectively on the planet don't ever forget that,  was trying to cover all the bases and had healthy tax incentives for communities and contractors to install all these stupid, dangerous gas lines.  

That's sh*ts gotta stop if it hasn't already.  

What is with this weird thought by some people that when the utilities go out

they are all of a sudden going to be in the mood

to make an elaborate six course dinner for a formal party of Twenty?

In the rare event the the electric goes out I'm more concerned about making sure the stuff in the freezer and frig doesn't spoil plus a bunch of other things.  

---

If your lucky enough to have a generator, perhaps a single burner plug in stove or a microwave will be enough to satisfy your guests insatiable appetite for cooked food until the electric comes back on?   Get some Ritz crackers

The natural gas industry has known for some time now that they have a limited time before the public is fed up with their b.s.  

Remember all the big gas line projects that were in the works in the NE that voters finally said NO during the 2020 election.  

When I lived in VA.  There was one going through the state to N.C. that had been haulted. I used to have to drive passed the open spots where the trees had been cut out and the ground graded but no pipe put in.

The same thing in Minnesota, a pipeline coming from Canada passing into Illinois.

The majority hate this sh*t.  Oil companies knew that they had limited time to push through their environmental destructive projects. And the banks are also pulling the cash because they can put their money in easy to install solar projects that don't cost anywhere near as much and have an almost guaranteed return.

Like I stated, few

A medium city's worth of people are still polluting the air in abundance and pissing off their neighbors.

The majority of coal is used in electric generation and even that is declining due to increased regulation.

Renewable has actually taken the lead over coal this year.

Thank you for showing us all what 23 y.o. denial looks like.

I'm sure we've all been there at some point in our lives over something.

Thank- you also for letting us know that you are too mature to return to discuss this  issue that the Consumer Product Safety Commision is dealing with.

There was a time when they were using gas to light houses.... until that blew up.

Really, if they knew back then how bad of an idea that was, why in the world did they continue with other appliances.   It's shameful.

Gas lighting today would demand a lot of fuel--and stoves were burning coal and wood, so that seemed at the time nearly the only thing piped gas was used for...

Gas lights that were a novelty on posts in yards got taken down fast and furiously more for inefficiency than any safety factors...

By the time electric lights were invented and more widely used, gas lights for general lighting were about done away with, then along came the gas lines used for furnaces, water heaters, boilers and stoves... (Then along came the gas clothes dryer!)

-- Dave

Yes, it was a stepping stone in history.   There are lots of them.

Even I have fond memories when I bought my first gas GE stove.  Also the house I grew up in had FA oil heat.  We upgraded to NG in about 1975 with a gas FA furnace. I've even installed a couple of gas high efficiency furnaces myself.

But we move forward with better ideas.

Won't be long until there's a ban on Texas Tea.

The White House on Wednesday asserted that President Joe Biden does not support a ban on gas stoves after a federal consumer safety official suggested that such a proposal was on the table.

 

The White House response follows a recent Bloomberg interview with Biden-appointed US Consumer Product Safety Commissioner Richard Trumka Jr., who called the household appliance a “hidden hazard” and said that “any option is on the table” in relations to regulating them.

 

“Products that can’t be made safe can be banned,” he added. Besides a ban, other options include “setting standards on emissions from the appliances,” Trumka said.

 

Pollutants from gas stoves have been linked to asthma and worsening respiratory conditions. A December 2022 study in the International Journal of Environmental Research and Public Health found that indoor gas stove usage is associated with an increased risk of current asthma among children. The study found that almost 13% of current childhood asthma in the US is attributable to gas stove use. ...

The simple fact is that Trumka has zero authority to enact a ban on gas stoves. Period.

I am assuming from the mention of the name " bradfordwhite" that he is the one disrupting this thread. My solution for him is just to go to my profile and block his posts. Problem solved.

Until I was 11 we lived in a small town back east. The house (built in 1950) had gas, electricity, and a big fuel tank in the basement. Every fall a big tanker truck would come by and snake a line out to the house to fill the tank. That fuel oil was used to run the home heating system. When we moved to California,  homes were heated either by natural gas or electricity. In fact I've never seen a fuel oil truck pull up to a home out here to fill a home's fuel tank. And I recall there was usually a whiff of fuel oil back east when the heating system started up. I don't miss that at all.

Both sets of grandparents, my parents, both of my sisters as well as me all had/have households with gas stoves and furnaces. None of us have ever had any problems with asthma, or any other breathing problems. Even now, my parents who moved into an apartment a year ago wish they had a gas heat, a gas water heater, and a gas stove.

Our house was converted over to natural gas in the early 1990's by the previous owner when he finally decided he no longer wanted to deal with the hassle of an oil furnace. The first things we replaced after we bought our home in 1998 were the ancient electric water heater, and Corning top electric range.

The water heater couldn't even keep up when doing back-to-back loads of laundry. The only time the gas water heater has run out of hot water was when I foolishly decided to run the dishwasher, do a load of laundry, and shower all at the same time.

There's hazards to everything in life. Nothing is guaranteed.

Mandatory restaurant signage giving the breakdown of cooking technology so diners can make "an informed conscientious environmentally sound choice" of where to eat out.

80% GAS
10% ELECTRIC RADIANT
10% ELECTRIC INDUCTION

My family has always had gas stoves, either in homes we owned or rented. None of my family ever got asthma or other conditions reputedly caused by gas stoves.

Currently I have a gas cooktop in the main kitchen, and a gas stove/oven waiting to replace a old electric range in the patio kitchen. Since neither has standing pilot lights, neither really needs continual venting. Both have motorized exhaust hoods over them, which probably could remove most if not all of the fumes associated with natural gas combustion. The water heater here is also gas, as is the home heating system. Both have efficient, constant chimneys to remove any fumes.

In other words, I'm not worried about gas stoves. IMHO, there are far more important things to obsess about.

It's 40 deg outside in your backyard at 10AM on a fall day with light rain and wind.

You have two water proof, reasonably air tight 10 x 10' tents that are the same.

Both tents have a chair, a small table, your favorite books, bottled water, and perhaps a tv and your smart phone.

One tent has a perfectly good and working gas stove connected to gas,

the other one has a perfectly good and working electric stove connected to electric.

The stoves are turned on and will be on the entire time and they're heating up the small spaces.  The dials will be set at mid point so that the air temp inside is about 80 deg. 

This is done because you're going to go in the tent for at least FIVE hours, zip the door shut, and stay warm and dry from the heat while it's windy and raining outside.

Which tent would YOU choose and why not the other one?

Would you be willing to stay in it for 10 hours?
Over night with a cot and blankets?

I grew up with nothing but electric ranges as well as all of my grandparents, aunts and uncles, ect, so that's all I'm familiar with. I don't have an opinion which one is superior but I'm sure it's all about learning and adapting to whatever one has available.

Changing out a gas to an electric range can be a huge, expensive feat if a house is built on a slab and the kitchen is placed a good distance away from the electrical box. I'd say this is an instance where a gas range should be grandfathered in. Just make sure there's a hood placed directly above the range that moves more than a sufficient amount of CFM's, selected on high speed while cooking, and the exhaust is carried directly outside (not in a roof gable). Using this method should be a pretty safe bet. If one is hypertensive to gas fumes or is paranoid about using NG, move into a home that has an electrical range or fully electrical setup.  

I'm against forcing people to convert a gas HVAC/water heater/dryer. These are all vented outside and pose little threat when used correctly. It's still a very efficient/low emissions form of heat until something else more "green" comes along. Just don't hold your breath about corporations taking those necessary steps to accomplish a cleaner, greener world. The crony capitalistic system doesn't favor efficient green tech that benefits humans/mother earth, it favors profits and does so with the help of politicians from BOTH sides of the isle through monetary contributions. Always has, always will.

As the (c)rappers say, "Dolla Dolla Bill, Y'all."

Barry, our government body is here to serve all of us.  If you've ever had a servant, or hired someone to do something for you you understand the concept of kindly instructing them in how they can help you.  Cut your hair, clean your house, walk your dog, scrub your feet, paint your walls, whatever.

Sometimes people get caught up with the media hyped teenage rebellion thing, acting like "its us against the Gub-bament!"

No.  We're not in middle school.

There maybe eye catching headlines with stuff like that but just- no.

Our government is here for all of us that's why, (in most places anyway) when you dial 911 someone will respond with something like "How can I help".  Sadly some people feel left out but no one really is.

Our government servants can't do what we need if they don't know what's needed and they don't have the require legislation that allows them to act.

It always amazes me how some people act so-o anti government but then a disaster hits, or a relative passes and someone has to inform the family, or someone's a victim of crime and suddenly they realize how grateful that people such as the Highway Patrol, Sheriffs, Fire fighters, and police agencies are there.

----

As for taking gas appliances from their owners: no one's ever going to "take them" or even buy them back.  Why would we want our gas companies or government to do that?  Without gas service they are just antiques/scrap metal and won't hurt anyone. 

Whereas for example gun buy backs or seizures are certainly reasonable because of the threat.

You're sadly misguided if you truly believe that. Take some time searching through declassified information and prepare to be a shocked.

Eddie,

I only included that paragraph to provide both points of view.

What I didn't post is well worth noting:

But earlier Wednesday, following the Bloomberg report, CPSC Chair Alexander Hoehn-Saric clarified in a statement that he is “not looking to ban gas stoves and the CPSC has no proceeding to do so.”

 

“CPSC is researching gas emissions in stoves and exploring new ways to address health risks. CPSC also is actively engage in strengthening voluntary safety standards for gas stoves. And later this spring, we will be asking the public to provide us with information about gas stove emissions and potential solutions for reducing any associated risks,” he added.

Again, I maintain that ALL cooking indoor appliances should have hoods  that export contaminated air to the outdoors. That would include electric ranges as well. I will also note that when I bought this house, there was a quite efficient Nutone hood in the main kitchen which does a great job of exporting cooking fumes to the outdoors. And that was above a Corning electric cooktop, which I replaced a few years after purchase with a gas cooktop.

I will also point out that most of the residences my family lived in during the 50's onward did NOT have any fume hoods above the gas ranges in the kitchens. Some had their gas ovens connected to exhaust pipes going outdoors, but not all.

It is still my position that IF gas ranges have fume hoods that exhaust to the outdoors, and these hoods are activated during extended cooking/baking, and there are no standing pilot lights, there there is NO health hazard whatsoever to the residence inhabitants.

Please refer to posts by the poster's name, not by the post number.

Thanks!

Here's what I've done to help conserve natural gas and potentially protect the environment:'

1) Set the home gas fired furnace to not run between the hours of 4 pm and 9 pm. This I did because I'm on a plan with PGE that effectively charges more for electricity used during those hours. The gas fired forced air furnace has a 500 watt electric fan. It usually comes on for only about 10-20 minutes an hour, but that's 83 to 166 watts saved per hour. 

2) Turned the gas fired water heater down from 140F to 120F. This clearly has reduced the bumping and grinding of the water heater, another plus. Yeah, I know, that's a sign there's scale in the bottom. Sort of waiting for a better time to flush it out.

3) The gas cooktop in the main kitchen has an efficient exhaust hood that vents to the outdoors. The oven in the kitchen is electric.

A simple fact remains: There is NO nationwide ban on gas stoves!

I sorted through JohnB300m's video until I got to the assertion "aluminum cookware is generally terrible anyway". I strongly disagree!

For many years my main cookware was pure aluminum. Aluminum heats rapidly and evenly. It may be true that uncoated aluminum cookware may stain quicker than some other types, but that is easily addressed by adding some oil or grease to the pan before heating. And aluminum cookware with non-stick coating resolves this issue considerably.

Folks, let's not rely on LIES to try to make a point here.

There may also be the consideration that distribution of electrical energy is a lot more energy intensive than distribution of natural gas energy. Why? Well, for starters, electrical current causes heating, and that heating has to be dealt with in some way. Typical ways for power distribution is to jack up the voltage to very high levels on the power lines, and then transform it down to 220 (240) or 110 (120) at the residential areas. This means extra equipment in the distribution system, as well as power loss at the transformer level (notice they all have fins... ever wonder why?).

I reiterate my position on this: the best way to handle the putative health hazards from gas stoves is to eliminate standing pilot lights from gas appliances, and to provide gas stoves/ranges/cooktops with efficient range hoods that exhaust to the outdoors. Nearly all the gas cooktops I've seen for sale in at least the past 20 years have spark igniters (no standing pilot lights). This is not only safer from a health perspective, but also safer in terms of losing the flame on a pilot light and then dealing with the escaped pilot light gas.

I had zero intention of watching this video in its entirety but in the end I did watch it all the way through.  He made some very interesting points.  Good point made around the 5-minute mark regarding the media in general.  

Just after the 31-minute mark, he said that gas stoves never shut off completely and there is always a small amount of uncombusted natural gas leaking out into your kitchen.  Well I have never heard this before.  I don't know to what extent that is true, if at all.

Thanks for posting it!

Mark

Induction is the most efficient at around 80 to 85%.

Other electric cooktops are close behind at 75 to 80%.

While gas is only about 40% efficient.

On the leaky stove front, I think that's only when there's a serious defect in the range. I remember, when I was in my early teens, watching a PG&E chap come by to help diagnose a malfunctioning range in our rental flat. Turned out someone in the place had maladjusted a pilot light screw and it was either completely off or spewing flame. I dimly recall something about a missing washer. Anyway, it got fixed and worked as well as a range with standing pilot lights is supposed to work.

At some point new ranges switched over to electric spark igniters. The downside is that one needs an electrical hookup for them to work. However, at least with my gas cooktop (circa 2000), a match or lighter (preferably a fireplace lighter) will do the trick as well.

Well, to paraphrase a famous actor:

"You can take my gas stove out of my cold, dead hands..." *

* Charlton Heston

If I'm not mistaken, it's been primarily just one person who drove this thread into the ditch, repeatedly.

That said, I like my gas cooktop in the main kitchen, and am intending to replace the Frigidaire electric range in the patio kitchen with a spark ignited Modern Maid gas range. I've been putting that off because of the work involved. And I need to test the (used) Modern Maid to make sure it works OK first. I did have a gas line run to the location of the range in the patio kitchen back when I replaced the Corning electric cooktop with the "Gas on Glass" Frigidaire cooktop in the main kitchen. And who knows? With all the anti-gas stove propaganda floating around California, I can probably find a top rate used gas range cheap cheap cheap.

I grew up with gas ranges and heating. As I recall they were all vented properly, although the pilot lights probably polluted more than desirable. But that issue went away with newer gas ranges for the past 40+ years, with the advent of spark igniters. Never had asthma, either.